1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth sells for more than the T206 Wagner
 

I believe this is the way it should be....to me the Ruth is WAY more important!!!

Results:

Ruth 380 000$ + juice = 450 300$

Wagner 340 000$ + juice = 402 900$

I believe this is a new record for a PSA 1.

Post # 2

Wagners come around several times a year, every year. Baltimore News Ruths don't.

I think it's a good time to sell. Dave

Yeah, I'm probably gonna pull the three I have hidden away and consign them ;)

Imagine if a psa8 BN Ruth surface ...imagine the final bid ... Probably more than the 2 800 000$ of the psa8 wagner

I think We can now said the BN Ruth is the most valuable baseball card ?

Your thoughts on REA Adrian?
 

Well, what did you think of the auction overall Adrian? Any luck yourself? Hope you enjoyed it!

All the Best,

Ryan H.

Ruth BN
 

Nelson,

The final price on a "8" BN Ruth would be insane!!

I guess there is a new king in town - move over Honus!

Tony

tennisguy

It was GREAT!!! I did not win but that is fine I will simply buy a few PSA 8 Mantle cards for my master set instead. When is the next REA suppose to happen and how many REA auctions are there per year?

Wish I could have staid up longer....my medications just knocked me out at around 10h45pm last night....just passed out.

Post # 3

A PSA 8 BN Ruth should be a 5$ million dollar card easy I am thinking over 7$ million dollars maybe with all the hype the very 1st 10$ million dollar card. But I believe the highest graded is a 4???

Post # 4

Yes, but they are not all graded.

BN Ruth
 

In December 2012, I was at the Valley Forge Show, and the news that REA would be selling this card was being discussed.

I said I wouldn't be surprised if the card sold for close to $400K, and most said $300K was almost certain. One guy who was standing near the table said - "No way that card sells for over $250K, it's graded a 1 for crying out loud!"

After reading the REA description for that card, who knows when another BN Ruth will come to auction? Unless another example is discovered, the other cards seem to be entrenched in huge collections that probably won't see the light of day for quite some time. We may not see another Ruth rookie come to auction for many years.

Tony

no its not because a BN ruth grade 8 has NOT surfaced. it cant be a theoretical most valuable card. the card that has sold for the most in real life is the most valuable baseball card.

the problem is that if all other are 4's, then an 8 doesnt get the comparison it deserves, as it would be worth a lot more than a 7, which is worth a lot more than a 6. since there arent any 5, 6, 7's? then how much to stick on an 8 all by itself?

like the black swamp find. bunch of pristine cards by themselves with most other examples already in the hobby in much less shape. they didnt sell for as much as some people hoped. i am not saying a bn ruth 8 wouldnt sell for 5 or 7 million, but who knows. since one will probably never be found, its all conjecture,

what if a grade 10 wagner were to be found, then what? the answer is so what? it hasnt and almost certainly will never be anyway so who cares? it would be the worlds first 20 million dollar card. but reality gets in the way.

there are more wagners than BN ruths, if there were only 7 or 10 wagners, then i believe wagners would dwarf the ruth then. its apples and oranges if the populations is 10 to 80.

Its the first time in the history of the hobby of a graded 1 baseball card sell for more than a graded1 wagner ?

All we know is that at least two wealthy collectors wanted a rare card very badly. All sorts of personal factors could also have been part of the equation - tons of disposable income, alcohol, late- night auction high that's probably similar to gambling, etc.

It's a minor league card, the Wagner is in a different league...so to speak. Just a fluke I bet we don't see again.

What is this darn country coming to, something low grade for more than a Wagner? Like everything else, things are a changin.

I'm way in the minority, but an obscure minor league Babe Ruth doesn't compare to a Wagner for me. I guess it does for others. To each his own.

comparing the babe ruth if it were an 8 and trying to extrapolate prices is like the comparisons of a pound per pound champion in boxing. saying that if sugar ray robinson were a bigger man, heavier man, etc. he could have beaten joe louis or muhammad ali so pound for pound he was better. It's fantasy, and an excercise in futility. until there is a grade 8 BN Ruth, we will never know if it would have sold more than the Wagner. All grade 1 Wagners or grade 2 Wagners are not made the same either. Same with BN Ruths, and one a collector with that type of money has one, doesnt necessarily mean he will buy another, or that another will take his place. You need two or more to drive it up to stratospheric prices. If bidders take a bit of a break you might see a Wagner go for a little less or a BN Ruth go for a little more, or vice versa, who knows.

I honestly believe
 

Higher grade unaltered Wagner outsells higher grade bn Ruth. On a 1 it all depends on timing etc. the demand outside the hobby is more for Wagner t206 then the bn Ruth.

Agree with this. If I was ever in the position to afford either card, I would rather have a Wagner T-206 card than a Ruth Baltimore News card. The Ruth card is far more rare, but there is a panache to the Wagner card that extends far beyond the hobby: It is from perhaps the most iconic set of all time, and there will probably never be a definitive answer as to why it is so scarce in comparison to most of the rest of the T-206 set.

Tony, I was quietly standing behind you during that exchange, and I distinctly heard you predict $450K with the juice. I think you also correctly predicted the time that the final bid was placed within 10 seconds.

Very well done.

I agree. I also wonder if these two high bidders already own Wagners, so they have no reason to bid on this one, but will go as high as they possibly can for a Ruth that may not come around again for years.

With rare cards like this, it's tough to predict things. Tony got it right, but some of the rest of us were baffled. People tend to forget that it only takes two bidders to give us this result - if one of them had dropped out for any number of reasons, it might be that no one would have taken his place and driven the price up.

There were crazy-high prices on a number of items last night (and in past auctions) - you could easily argue that this was a fluke, and there would be no evidence to go against you.

Runscott
 

Scott,

I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you, if you are at future shows, drop me a line. I love meeting up & speaking with fellow NET 54 members.


Tony

I do not understand the logic of it only takes 2 bidders to push up the price is that not the case with EVERYTHING else in this world as well? I mean maybe there was 3 guys or 4 how do we know it was only 2 bidders....makes no sens to me. The end result is what matters it beat the T206 Wagner and that is that...final results are very much real in life!!! Like it or not the reality is that the Ruth is now the most expensive card EVER sold in a PSA 1 no matter how the bidding went!!!

I know for some it is a SHOCK that the T206 Wagner is now # 2 but it is what it is!!! Rarely in reality does something always stay # 1 for ever.

And one day most likely the most expensive card in the world will be the 52 Topps Mantle in PSA 10 why you ask simple it DOES exist in that grade not like the 2 other cards mentioned here. I am pretty in say 15 years it will be the new # 1 unless a new high grade of either the Ruth or Wagner is discovered that has not been altered in any way.

There is no way in Hell...Heaven or any other place that the 52 topps mantle will ever be the most expensive/valuable card in the hobby...never gonna happen!

If I could address the two cards in person...
 

I would say, "Ladies, you're both beautiful. I'd be happy to have either one of you."

Then I would take them both home.

ullmandds

Hard to say the current estimates are that a PSA 10 52 Topps Mantle is now worth over 1$ million dollars what about in 20 years...if there is a card that can be worth more my guess would be this one again ONLY in PSA 10.

Post # 3

You're even drier than me, which is tough :)

I will be at the National from Wednesday until Saturday.

There are more examples of "everything else in the world", so you've got more data to go on.

Adrian...I have to disagree...as more and more people die...who may have seen mantle play...who have this form of disposable income...the demand for his cards will go down. People like you...who at your age idolize mantle...are a small minority.

ullmandds

Could be the case but no one here has ever seen Ruth play or Wagner for that matter or Ty Cobb and their cards are going up and up and up...so I believe Mantle will do just fine....Mantle will always be remembered in baseball as is Ruth. The 2 biggest names in baseball are Ruth and Mantle and they are legends people will remember and if not they will read books and watch online videos and get into buying them. There are SO many ways now to learn about these guys (Internet for one) that people will continue to enjoy collecting them down the road.

The 52 Topps Mantle is to Iconic and that will not change for some card printed in say 1990 or 2012. It is the face of modern day baseball...no way some newer printed card will take its place...way to many exist in high grade....who truly cares about 1/1 modern day cards unless it is a Ruth or a Mantle or some other legend of the game that played long ago.

Post # 4

sorry Adrian...I still disagree!!!!!! Ruth has 714...a lifetime BA of .342...incredible pitching stats...Cobb had 4191...lifetime BA unfathomable .367...Mantle was revered by many who watched him play for his power...and clutch...but his #'s...in my opinion will not stand the test of time...just my opinion.

I certainly respect and appreciate your enthusiasm...and your opinion...noone knows...we're just speculating.

The 52 Topps Mantle is like Detective comics # 27 the 1st appearance of Batman and the Babe Ruth is like Action comics # 1 the 1st appearance of Superman people will never forget those like they will never forget these 2 baseball players.

There is NO way Barry Bonds with 762 homers will EVER be collected like Ruth or Mantle same goes for Hank Aaron....much less people talk about Aaron than Mantle even if Aaron was a much better player...that is why true legends will always be popular and collected.

Post # 5

A slight tangent, but...
 

I could see the Just So Cy Young hammering for an all time card record.

While it's not a card everyone would want, that type of broad demand isn't necessarily required to reach a record high price. A card like that would appeal to the type of collector who could make thermospheric bids. If I have my facts straight, it is the only one known and the earliest card of a titanic name in the sport-- not even a relatively unknown or obscure-to-today's-masses HOFer. I could see intense competition erupt over that card at auction.

Alex Rodriguez has better #'s than Mantle and will most likely be the new homerun king in a couple of years and have over 3000 hits...but truly who really cares about his cards....you will never see people collect these cards like they collect iconic and legendary players just will not happen.

Pete Rose is still the # 1 hit leader and his rookie goes for only a couple hundred dollars in PSA 5....why simple he is not Mantle or Ruth or some other player like Cobb or Wagner or Shoeless Joe Jackson. No one will become the new poster face of modern day baseball except for Mantle....not Hank Aaron not Willie Mays no one.

Post # 6

The reason it would be a shock is because what you are claiming is just not true. The Wagner T-206 sold through Goldin last month sold for $2.1 million. Until someone is willing to put up more money for any other card, the Wagner T-206 is still the king of the hobby, IMO.

Bored5000

What I said is he his the new king for a card graded a PSA 1 that is what I said....I did not say for higher grades....yet.

Post # 7

I completely agree Peter,

I think you are already seeing this effect with Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio. They are still very popular, but not the way that they were 20 years ago. Mantle was an incredibly gifted player who had the misfortune to suffer major injuries early in his career, so his numbers don't stack up with the all time greats and when the folks that saw him play are no longer around to tell the stories, his popularity will decline, even if only slightly. There's also a much greater likelihood of more Mantle rookies showing up as quite a few of the kids that collected cards at the time are still alive and I'd imagine that more cards will be showing up in estates over the next 10-20 years. The likelihood of additional pre-WWI cards being discovered is much less as you are looking at items being passed through multiple generations.

Citing this example is somewhat specious. It is very tough to compare different cards' values in the same grade across different eras. It is also very hard to compare players' statures based on card values. A low pop common from the 60s or 70s might command $3000+ in PSA 9; that doesn't mean that common player is better than Mike Schmidt.

Due to time and collectors preservation habits, many more 1963 Rose rookie cards are laying around than there are 1952 Mantles...

There are currently 1128 Mantles graded by PSA, with 227 grading at and north of PSA 5.

In contrast, there are 2859 Rose RCs graded by PSA, with nearly 2000 examples at or north of PSA 5.

So condition now enters the conversation as a determinant of value and it becomes apples to oranges. In PSA 8 or 9, the Rose RC is not a cheap card, and its price in that range might sound more commensurate with it being the RC of the all time hits leader.

That said, I think Mantle's iconic status within the card collecting hobby will stand the test of time, as will Ruth's. Even though Mantle has many cards in the hobby, eye-appealing examples of his earliest issues will, in my opinion, never plunge in value, nor will his rare issues like say the Dice Game. But again this is all talk and only time will tell.

I think names like Ruth, Cobb, Aaron, Williams, and DiMaggio, will endure well in terms of their card values-- but by card values I specifically mean the values of their most desired, popular cards. I can see a later issue Ted Williams dipping over time but not nearly as much so for a card like the 1954 Wilson Franks. Similarly I can see a 1968 Mantle in PSA 8 dipping long term, but not nearly as much if at all for a nicely centered example of his RC or the 52T.

wolf441

Mantle is to much of a legend for this to happen....ask almost any kid today who Cobb is or Wagner and they will look at you with a stupid face....Ruth's numbers have been beaten by players like Aaron and Bonds but who pays a fortune for a Aaron or Bonds card very few people do why simple they are NOT true legends that transcend threw history like Ruth and Mantle.

Ask almost any kid from New York who Mantle is they will know right away...Ruth's 714 homeruns has already been beat and will be beat again and again in the future but who cares Ruth is Ruth and that goes for Mantle as well.

Plus the 52 Topps set is Iconic as well as been the 1st Topps set ever so Mantle will do just fine down the road!!! People mostly collect T206, 33 Goudey and 52 Topps that is just the way it is....almost no one cares about sets from the 1980's and later...this will not change people want to collect insert cards and guess what when they find a Ruth or a Mantle they yell with joy.

Name me just one baseball player since Mantle's playing days came to a end who people care more about....the answer is NONE!!! A lot of people have over 500 homeruns but 95%-99% people forget about and could care less about but not Mantle and Ruth.

Derek Jeter will beat Cobb as far as hits go some time in the next couple of years...again who really cares about Jeter compared to Cobb!!!

Post # 8

While some of that is true, the reason is a bit off in my opinion.

Ruth is by far the best hitter of his era, and barring injury from overwork (which was likely at the time) would probably have been one of the best pitchers. There aren't many players witht that sort of all around combination.

Mantle was certainly among the best of his era, but not a clear #1. Yes, he fought off a bunch of injuries, but so have other players who aren't regarded as highly. I think a lot of the Mantle thing is that he played in New York, through an era when the other two NY teams lost some fan base and moved west. Mays would probably be thought of the same way had the Giants stayed in NY.

Aaron was a generally quiet guy playing for a team in a far less media intensive market. And while he didn't put up insanely flashy numbers in any one season (For the era) He did perform at a very high level for a long time. 17 straight years in the top 10 in the league for HR. Some of what he accomplished won't happen again anytime soon. More players are either driven out because they become too expensive, or simply leave because they have enough money and aren't willing to play through a few years of chronic injury. Or a combination of both.

I'd have to agree about Bonds though. He was a great player, but was far too abrasive compared to players during the same time. I think he might have broken the career HR record without steroids, just a year or two later (Or three depending on how he aged) But a bad attitude in a small media market just doesn't lead anywhere good.

Steve B

steve B

Same could be said if Adolf Hitler came from Canada....but history is history and he did not so everyone remembers him as the # 1 villain of humankind.

No one can change the past...Aaron lucked out in fame versus Mantle just the way things went down.

Post # 9

It is like the great artist in painting no modern day painter will be as popular as the greats from the past just will not happen EVEN if most today paint better!!! Who in his right mind would pay 100$ million dollars for a modern day painting (and for me same goes for any old painting but people do pay that kind of money why because they are Legends in their field).

Post # 10

Oh, those modern paintings can go for quite a bit of money. I don't know about $100mn, but $50mn, yes.

cyseymour

My point was that the great artists from the past will always be remembered no matter what and there paintings will always command high prices even if they where painted over 400 years ago.

Babe Ruth has been dead for 3 generations now and people still love the guy and collect him as for Mantle it has been only 1 generation since he has died.

Baseball is just to important in America for people to forget the true legends of the game!! Hockey yes people forget about the truly old players (from the early 1900's) but not baseball.

Plus people in the U.S are probably one of the countries who care more about their history than any other nation on Earth so people will remember....way to many books/movies exist about U.S history for people to just forget.

Post # 11

I have thought this for a long time Peter. I never saw Mantle play, certainly appreciate his talent and contributions to the game but still can't figure out the excessive (IMO) premium on most of his cards. One other factor to this is that there are far more 1952 Topps Mantles to be had than T206 Wagner's or BN Ruths.

Hmm....Lots of stuff to consider.

CySeymour - we've had a slow art conversation in the off topic section. While looking some stuff up I was amazed that something like 9 of the top 10 auction sale prices were for art from the 1900's. And most of that from the last half of the century.

Andrew- My point was that publicity has as much to do with how a player becomes an iconic character. Without publicity of their exploits it either never happens, or doesn't get to the same stature. Mantle is obviosly an iconc figure, but if it had been the Yankees moving to SF, I don't think he would be. (And I'll counter your Canadian Hitler with a western Pol Pot or a less secretive Stalin, or even an Andrew Jackson going agianst a larger population. ) Look at a couple modern players - Ken Griffey Jr. - some hype early, some injury issues, and eventually a great 22 years that put him over 600HR. But nearly the entire last half of his career was pretty quiet on the PR front. Jim Thome - another 22 years, also over 600 HR and not even a hint of steroids. His entire career played in small larket places, and he's not a flashy guy. If you can call 7th all time in hr not flashy.
Reggie Jacksons 5 years in NY were ones of amazing celebrity, but weren't really that impressive.
When you think late 70's power hitters, who do you think of first? Jackson or Rice? Jackson or Hisle? (Hisle had more HR and more RBI in both 77 and 78 before injury finished him.) Jackson or Gorman Thomas? Jackson or really any of the players who had 18 better HR seasons between 77 and 79?
Publicity has a LOT to do with it.

On the card front, I wonder how much the 52 Mantle affected his iconic image? I don't think either would be quite the same without the other.

For that matter, how much does a "great" card affect any player? Baltimore news wasn't a big deal till recently, but would Ruth be as famous without the Goudeys? Would Wagner be as famous without the T206, or if it wasn't an uncommon card? That maybe belongs in another thread, as it's getting a bit off topic.

I'm having a hard time distinguishing between MattyC and Zone91. Maybe a slightly different avatar for the latter is in order?

Attachment 99943

So many factors, So many torches carried, in the Hot Stove League of BB and its cards
 

Ty Cobb - lots of wonderful cards, with lots of scarcities

Babe Ruth - few cards, period. But then we have this card, technically a pre-rookie, with great eye appeal and rarity, that does not transact very often. It has a lot going for it.

Mickey Mantle - many, many cards. Many, many scarcities. Many, many condition rarities. Identifying the profile of what issues have scarcity, rarity, condition rarity, fabulous eye appeal, and media coverage would make prudent research for a collector-investor. Media coverage can change, good or bad, depending on a lot of things. Think about it for a moment, in regards to Mantle--the 1952 Topps is the Mantle card written about 90 per cent of the time. Perhaps more than that. Why aren't some of the other Mantle cards profiled and spotlighted? I honestly think it is because the hobby writers had either one-track minds, were too shallow, stupid, or lazy to put forth the effort to research other Mantle gems. But really, I have been involved with journalism, there are deadlines, and the luxury of time is rare. Then again, if you have no one willing to be interviewed, what Mantle are you going to turn to? '52 Topps. An interesting observation I have noticed, when I was a kid, people asked, do you have a card of Babe Ruth? Today however, people ask, do you have a card of Mickey Mantle?

Honus Wagner - Other than his T-206, which has been a hobby legend since I suppose Jefferson Burdick placed a much higher value upon it in the original AMERICAN CARD CATALOG, there are lots of cards, cabinets, and discs. In the case of the PSA 8 Wagner, its aura became discolored due to Bill Mastro's admission it was hand-cut from a strip. But most of us figured this was the case years ago. Personally, I agree with the few who countered with, simply re-slab as a PSA 8 HAND-CUT. An exception should be made for the Gretzky-McNall Wagner, that is so far and away above the rest condition-wise. For this card, yes. However, the high-grade Wagner's effect upon his other cards has been interesting. Their value arched up because of the T-206. Then again, I am not a pre-war guy, and I'm certain they place him, rightly so, among the top players of that era.

Too many people still equate statistics with who should also then be the number one in most valuable collectibles. Again, lots of factors---where they played, impact on the game or who got to play, and performed stupendously, before National TV. I remember well in 1971. Still the masses did not seem to grasp how special Roberto Clemente was. The '71 Series changed that.

Jackie Robinson's numbers are not cited really. But anyone with an ounce of BB history and social history might understand why his 1950 uniform recently sold for $400,000. Others with much higher numbers sold way way below that.

Many of the cards discussed here are all great. Time will tell. If anyone has conversed with a collector having a 7-figure annual budget about what motivates them, please share. That would be interesting. If you cannot name a name, fine. But please sing it out. I seriously doubt it is all that mysterious. That coffee table book by Steven Wang was insightful. It is typical of the wealthy--they want things that are elegant, stand out, and are not easily obtained. With regard to the card hobby, they have often been driven to the big names, and their beautiful scarce cards, or cards in extraordinary condition. The generated threads along the lines of "if you could have ...? all pretty much bare out what the affluent desire--we all know the difference that allows one to pursue the dream cards and those who can only dream about them. Ownership of such expensive cardboard carries its own problems, pitfalls, and responsibilities.

Back to the actual subject. OK-so the Baltimore News Babe Ruth garnered a higher value. This hobby ought to have place for at least a dozen, or seven perhaps, great cards at the highest level. Wagner has gotten SO MUCH press through the years of the adult hobby's growth from the 1970s-on. I believe the general hobby did not even know of the Baltimore News Babe Ruth's existence until the mid-to-late-80s. Looking at the card, I can well appreciate why it took off price-wise. Barry Sloate brought up a vital point---Wagners are offered 3-4 times a year, whereas the Baltimore News Babe was coming along once a year at REA, then stopped. Now, perhaps once every 2-3 years. Someone else pointed out the vast difference in the population between the two--with anywhere from 4-7 of the T-206 Honus for each one of Babe. The exclusivity for each one is well-established. But, the fact remains the Baltimore News Babe Ruth is far and away rarer. Nothing new there. Collectors do not collect Baltimore News. We all know that most of the pre-war guys collect T-206. The difference?

Most of the guys collecting T-206 cannot afford the Wagner. The wealthy go for the jugular; they'll get the very best for its importance, value, exclusivity, and their own personal satisfaction. Most all of us would want a great card of the Babe. Maybe I am greatly mistaken, but there are relatively few great Ruths to choose from. For instance, how about a great card from '20, '21, or his legendary '27 season? There are some--the Headin' Home cards, and a few exhibits. The answer is best epitomized by an exchange by Moe and Curly in one of their many classic comedies, "Three Little Pirates":

Moe: "You gotta something else?"

Curly: "NAHHHTING!"

Moe: "Nahting?"

Curly: "Youx." (pronounced "YOKES", WHICH TRANSLATES TO "YES")

Moe: "Ooh Boy."

It's too bad. But the Goudeys are great cards, and there are some others. The Baltimore News Babe Ruth, a regional issue, fills the bill on so many fronts---fantastic appearance, scarcity, rarity, terrific story. It bares all the ingredients for a card to rival and sometimes beat Honus in value. The opportunities are few on this one. The fight was on. "Ze Blood Ran In Ze Streets."

'Nuf said.

Gotta go. -Brian Powell

??? How is the second card of Mantle the same as the first issue of Superman or Batman?

I don't know if Mantle prices will drop as people who remember him die off, but he's certainly no Babe Ruth, Gehrig or DiMaggio.

A lot of young guys forget that in the '80s baseball cards became fairly worthless compared to what they had been. Same thing happened to comic books in the '70s. So what if Rose was the hit leader and Bonds was the HR leader - neither has a card from the '50s or earlier.

I would certainly put Mantle at the same level as all four of those players from both a numbers standpoint and mystique standpoint (for lack of a better word). The fact that the 1952 Topps card is not his first card means nothing. In actuality it is his 5th or 6th card issued, but I would still consider it his rookie (but that would be a post-war discussion). I don't know anything about comics, but I'm sure whatever analogy Adrian made has some sort of baring.

The 1952 Topps Mantle card will never go down in value relative to the hobby, same as the BN Ruth and t206 Wagner.

I would personally consider the BN Ruth to be the most valuable card in the world right now. I would consider the PSA 8 Wagner to be the most valuable single card in the world and I would certainly consider the PSA 10 Mantles to be up there as well.. $1-1.5 million if I had to guess.

The 1952 Topps Mantle has much more value past the fan appeal. It is arguably the most iconic image in the hobby (certainly the most iconic post war image). Mantle will always have that draw to collectors, not just because his numbers or legendary power or his accolades, but because he is one of the most popular players to have played the game. He's not just going to go away.

Jason

OK

Runscott

I just mean that even do Batman is not # 1 and Superman is that does not mean people will ever forget about Batman (By the way in the last few years Batman is becoming more popular than Superman it is a back and forth thing in the last few years). Or you can say Mantle is like the most important silver comic with Spider-Man's 1st appearance in Amazing Fantasy # 15 in the very early 60's if you prefer....Spider-man is and will be popular for a long long long time to come. You can then use Detective # 27 for the T206 Wagner and Action # 1 for Ruth's 1914 Baltimore news cards....no matter all 3 characters will always be popular even if new comic book characters appeared after them...why because they are legendary in their own way.

To me the 2 most famous and popular baseball figures are Ruth and Mantle just the way it is. It will never be Barry Bonds and say Derek Jeter (most likely to beat the all time hit record in a couple of years) just won't happen....the 52 Topps image is known by almost the whole planet and that says a lot about it's future....this can't be said about MOST other collectibles...I know I have collected comics and coins for years. Everyone I know in Canada knows what the 52 Topps Mantle looks like (same thing with action comics # 1 and detective comics # 27 and Amazing Fantasy # 15) and also know it's importance in the hobby....and we are not even a baseball nation like you guys in the U.S.

Yes Thor, the X-Men and the Fantastic Four have their place as well but not like the Batman, Superman and Spider-Man!!!

Like the Mona Lisa painting once a image becomes the iconic image of a certain hobby USUALLY it stays that way.

On another note I am not collecting for money so the future potential does not bother me what does is that Mantle stays a part of baseball history and that he his remembered as the legend he was and still his....I believe without the famous image of the 52 Topps (rookie card or not) card he would be much less appreciated in the hobby today rarely does a SINGLE card have such a impact like that one does...it's power to draw people in when seen the image is incredible....the same can be said about the T206 Wagner!!!

Post # 12

Cool to see an Amazing Fantasy reference here.

I've seen the Mona Lisa, and a '52 Topps Mantle is nothing like the Mona Lisa. In any way whatsoever. Compare the Mantle to comic books all you want, I can understand the analogy there. But the Mona Lisa? Nah.

Same here. Although I had to look over and thru 20 heads to get a glimpse.

It was certainly a let-down. Fortunately there are plenty of photos of it that do it more justice than the Louvre display, although I understand their need to protect it.

I'm assuming it's still behind a thick piece of plastic - I haven't seen it since the '90s.

I just mean that the Mona Lisa is the KING in the art world same as the 1914 Babe Ruth or T206 Wagner and they are not going anywhere even if a few generations pass away....I simply feel the same about Mickey Mantles and his legendary status as the modern day king of baseball....truly many have better careers than Mantle but no to many care about those players and that is why Mantle was a legend of the game he was bigger than the game and still is and will continue to be.

Post # 3

Too late Adrian, you've already got us running with a tangent.

Also, be careful - I think a few members are trying to trick you into wasting your posts on trivial subjects.

I saw it in 1972. All they used were ropes to keep the crowds back. No glass, no case. They did prohibit flash bulbs, though. And for all the hype, it really was a letdown. Give me some Monets any day. :)