What Do You Do?
 

Asking your opinion on this one.
Buyer buys the card,sends in for grading, then demands his costs for shipping both ways and grading fee. My question to the buyer was this, "Why would you send a card for grading when it is clearly stated in bold red type trimmed"?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350755215307...84.m1561.l2649

There is no reason to refund this person one red cent! The buyer is being unreasonable. Clearly, this buyer didn't read the item description where You stated that the card was trimmed.

What was the buyer's response to your question?

clearly on the buyer here..... not sure why he would even come back?

On the buyer here. Auction clearly states the card is trimmed. He would have never gotten a numeric grade. Why didn't he get it slabbed as 'AUTHENTIC'?? I would not offer a refund. Did you ask him why he though a $400 card sold for only $30?

on a side note...larry...why do you show a t206 green cobb in the middle of the listing...this can only serve to confuse in my opinion?

Maybe he was pissed off at the sp of the word 'Cheif'(sic)? :)

A buyer would send a trimmed card to a TPG to have it authenticated, and slabbed as such. But why has the buyer come to you for postage and submission fee? I also am curious about the pic of the cobb in the middle of your listing. Dave

How is this a $400 card?:confused:

That was my second impression.

I agree with everyone above, it's on the buyer.

To avoid this issue in the future, I suggest adding the word "trimmed" to the listing title, there was plenty of room to do so. I understand that it is in red lettering, but when half of your listing description is in red, it makes it a bit harder to notice.

I also suggest removing that Cobb green portrait from the listing, it further adds to the confusion.

Hopefully you don't get a neg, and hopefully you will tweak these little particulars before you get another unsatisfied buyer.

The buyer is 100% at fault here, but you're in a tough spot Larry. Sounds like he is unreasonable enough to hit you with an undeserved negative if you don't meet his ridiculous terms.

If it were me I would try to reason with him again, but wouldn't cave on the grading fees one bit. If he ended up leaving me a negative, I would respond with something like "Description clearly stated that the card was trimmed. Please read the entire description"

I think future buyers will read that response, and be able to see that the buyer was being unreasonable. Plus I don't think anyone will make a big deal over one stray negative with your overall strong feedback rating.

Good luck whatever you decide to do!

Hold your ground.

Save ALL communication with the buyer. If the buyer leaves a Negative, call eBay ASAP and explain the situation and tell them you have all the communication with the buyer.

HOPEFULLY, eBay will see and understand what is going on and retract the Negative.

That is, of course, if things get that far......

David

Clearly your fault. Any good ebay seller must be able to read the minds of any and all potential buyers and anticipate their every need. If any of the potential buyers have trouble reading, it is your duty to personally visit them at their convenience and read the description aloud to them a minimum of 4 times. Clearly this buyer had retina damage and/or color blindness and could not see your clearly marked, all caps, bright TRIMMED. This was clearly your fault - you should have marked the words TRIMMED in at least 20 different colors including salmon, atomic tangerine and burnt sienna.

If you need any tips on writing ebay descriptions, please contact this seller. He know how to cover all his bases.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Holy-Smokes-H...item338139de85

Don't give this guy a refund - he clearly can't read!

If it were me, I would offer a refund plus postage both ways. I'm very protective of my feedback.

I try to put descriptors in my listings for material information, and think best practice is to note something like "trimmed" in the title.

I think it is even more important to do so now that mobile bidding is so common and a lot of people don't closely read descriptions and/or they don't always render well on a mobile device. I believe there is a good chance the potential buyer clicked on the photo, saw what looked like a nice T206 and bid based on the photo and auction title alone.

Now I've heard everything. This buyer is totally unreasonable. Was he going to split the money with you if he sells it for more than he paid you for it?

hate to say it...but I kinda agree w/esquiresports in that whether or not the buyer is at fault...ie. didn't read the listing...now has buyers remorse...whatever...ebay will side with the buyer if it gets escalated to that level...but I'd rather give a refund for the card...I would NOT pay his grading fees...that is ridiculous!

Just advertising that's all

Thank you all for your opinions!

If the buyer did his homework he wouldn't have to worry about flunking the test.

Hey Mr. Harris.

To be honest, I think that because you fully disclosed the fact that the card was trimmed, you should certainly not have to do anything for this person. I do not know if it is a simple case of them not reading the listing, but in my opinion that is their responsibility.

You did nothing wrong or immoral, and I ALWAYS have good experiences when I deal with you.

Some people are just tough!

Derek

On a side note:

Is it common courtesy to advertise a card as trimmed in the title if it is known to be trimmed?

It should be. You're wasting a prospective buyer's time by making him click on the auction to find out that it has been trimmed. With that said I still don't think Larry should refund this guy anything...you should always read the description on ebay.

Is it just me or does that seem like a fast turnaround for grading?

Auction ends April 6th, ships on the 8th, he gets it on the 11th. Only 18 days between when he mails it to SGC, and gets it back?

(I'm assuming he sent it to SGC as PSA clearly would have graded it a 7)

Yes. I hate playing 20 questions with sellers who are not clear in a description and it's even worse when the reply to questions are vague. I do not understand why sellers are not more forth coming in accurate desctiptions, and clear in a listing. Prevents problems for both parties.

Negative
 

Personally, I think the whole negative feedback thing is overrated. If somebody has 100 positives and 1 negative, I could care less. In 101 transactions, you're always going to find that pain in the arse. It's the same guy who buys the hedge clipper at Wal-Mart, trims his hedges, then returns it. If I was a seller (which I'm not), I'd have it as a badge of honor that I didn't cave into jerks. Of course, with Ebay's policies slanted towards buyers, it makes it a bit tough. Which brings me back to why I'm not an Ebay seller...

Geno

I would refund him the price of the card and I'd throw in the original shipping charge. You could then tell eBay that you've handled it, and I don't see what more they could ask you to do. If there is negative feedback, don't worry about it. If you are able to annotate the negative feedback with a reply, do so. Everyone knows that eBay gives sellers no protection from irresponsible buyers.

what do you do
 

No need to fret anymore over this one, Larry, ole buddy.
You're in the right. The fact that you even wrestle with this at all simply attests
to your ongoing pursuit of the good.
all the best,
Barry

+100.

Larry, you have to be the easiest, most fair minded guy to deal with on the board. Don't sweat some jerk. Life is too short. :D

I used to cave in to idiots like this buyer and submit to their demands even when I knew I was in the right just to protect my ratings and keep my 20% discount...now that ebay has made it nearly impossible to get the discount I don't play games anymore. You got a problem, send it back for a refund..if I made a mistake in my listing, or if it got broken in shipping I'll refund your return shipping too. If you have buyer's remorse I'll take it back and you pay the return shipping. If you're out for a partial refund for any reason ship it back, I don't play that game. It's gotten me a few negatives, but like I said I don't cave to the unreasonable idiots anymore.

Seller
 

Larry,

Your the best on the bay !! Thanks for all of the transactions we have had together. The buyer although with a lot of feedback seems to be trying to strong arm you because he is " experienced" and negative feedback will result in never selling another item. I doubt that eBay will side with him as your description is good.

idiot buyer....
 

if he cant see that card is trimmed even from the scan, he should save the grading fees and put the cash towards a new set o' specs:p...

Larry your a T206 legend:D

If it were me, I would cave to the buyer's demands because he sounds completely unreasonable and will almost certainly lead to negative feedback, which could hurt the prices you get in future auctions. So be careful there...

I would also block that guy from bidding in the future.

In his defense, I will say that your listing is unclear and because you have the word trimmed below the Cobb card, he could have gotten confused. I would get that Cobb card outta there...

Larry:
1- I don't think the Cobb Green is confusing;
2- I think you made it clear the card is trimmed;
3- You don't owe him anything. You could give him a refund to keep him happy, but I doubt you want him as a customer anyway.

I once bought a 1965 Topps Oliva advertised as PSA 9 Mint. On the flip it said Mint 9(OC), but the seller never mentioned it in the description. I was angry at him, but also at myself for being careless. You put it in the description in red. I think the buyer should have paid more attention.

Did I miss something here? Where does Larry say the buyer "missed that the card was listed as trimmed"? He may have sent the card in seeking an "authentic" slab. Yes he is unreasonable to want Larry to pay for grading and postage....where did he come up with that? What was the reason he gave for asking you to do so? Dave.

my question here is this about the question about the cobb picture,
does the heading say cobb or myers?

Hi Larry--
 

Your Buyer has a FBack of 6947!! Clearly he knows what he's doing & surely he has tried this ploy many times before. You owe him nothing!

I DO think, however, that "trimmed" should either be in the Title or at least a bit more prominent in your ever so brief & rather small type descpt. just to be a bit clearer & to avoid any confusion.

I'm not so defensive about perfect feedback that I'd be run over. I'd tell tell him to F off and if I got a negative I'd appeal it.

If the guy demanded you to pay his grading fee, and it was done through Ebay messages, that may be enough to get Ebay to delete any negative feedback he might leave.

They call it feedback extortion and it's one of the few things Ebay does to protect sellers. Asking for money back not related to the transaction, I believe falls under the "Feedback extortion" guidelines.

You could inform the buyer that you always have the ability to tell this story on this and the PSA boards, post his user id and suggest people might consider blocking him as a bidder. And people would block him, because many sellers have zero interest in dealing with this kind of bidder. He may think twice about proceeding with unreasonable demands. If they are indeed unreasonable (*not taking sides).

I don't agree with what the buyer is doing, let me make that clear. You asked what would I do, I gave my viewpoint. Tis' all.

The seller has a responsibility to list an item in a clear manner that should be free from question or confusion to buyers. The buyer has a responsibility to ask questions of the seller if the listing is not clear. Both parties failed in this respect. While " trimmed " is mentioned in the listing, it is hidden in the middle of the post, by the Cobb. The Cobb is trimmed? If trimmed was in the title this problem with the buyer likely does not exist. Sure timmed is in red, but so is half the listing. The listing never says the card for auction is what has been trimmed. The buyer should have been asking questions though. I would refund the buyer, and be clear in my listing to sell the item next time.

+1...Additionally, I do not see where Larry did anything wrong. Just my opinion...

Yep....let him leave the negative. Call ebay and show that he tried to extort you and then post his name on Net54 so we can avoid this idiot too.

Instead of at least trying to diffuse the situation, it seems like a majority of the suggestions are confrontational and likely to escalate things in a negative way. You offer a 14 day return. It has been 23 days (give or take). The sale was for $35. Shipping cost $4. Again, I would suggest offering a return of the card and shipping fees. Relist the card and put "trimmed" in the title. I understand the buyer's initial stance was completely unreasonable, but is this justification to react the same way? I would take the high road.

How much do you sell on ebay? The buyer is an idiot...I agree that Larry should accept the return, but he shouldn't pay a cent more than the original sale price plus shipping.

Yes, return for refund for original transaction price. Looks like the guy is fishing for more though, and his ID can easily be found in Larry's feedback left.

You are right,
I do offer a 14 day return. However, like I stated earlier, why attempt to get a number grade when it is clearly stated the cards is trimmed? Is that someway
on me? Just asking. Had I not stated the condition I would give the full refund.

just to play devils advocate...I bought a card from a hobby friend a year or two ago that was sold to me cheap...because it was trimmed. I recently saw it in a sgc 40 holder. Also...years ago I sold a sweet e106 that sgc rejected as trimmed...only to see it shortly thereafter in a sgc 70 holder.

It happens!!!!!!!

Hi Larry....Where did you say the buyer was trying to get a number grade? He may have just wanted it authenticated. Dave

It really has nothing to do with being on you. Ebay will give the guy his money back if he returns it back to you and proves it with Delivery Confirmation.

14 day return policy doesn't really mean a whole lot to Ebay. They usually default to Paypal's policy, which is longer.

That said, just telling the guy you will only give him his original payment back when he returns the card, may be enough that he will just keep the card, and you can deal with any negative feedback if he had demanded additional money in his Ebay messages to you.

I think we are on the same page. I would not be willing to refund grading fees. To answer your question, I am not a high-volume seller on eBay the way I used to be long-ago. I sell maybe a couple dozen items a month on average with an average sales price of around $100.

I think there is a very good chance he did not read the description when he bid, or read over it. This is not on you. My thinking is there is not a big transaction cost to taking the card back and listing it again.

You are clearly dealing with an idiot. No way in Hell would I pay this idiots fees associated with grading. The card was stated as trimmed and the buyer knew this when purchasing the card. He hoped that the card would get through the cracks and that the graders would miss the trim. He gambled and lost plain and simply.

The only bad thing about this is that eBay allows this kind of idiot to post negative feedback. My wife had a situation with a buyer 6 months ago where she had listed a women's sweater for sale and a newbie buyer bought it. The sweater was listed as a large, tags showed large, pictures showed sweater was a large, and this idiot tried to say that the sweater was not a large as it didn't fit her. Not our fault that this most likely obese person couldn't fit into the sweater that was properly listed, but eBay allowed the feedback to stand even though it was not truthful. In this situation, we did not refund because it was listed correctly and the person who had bid up the item wouldn't have reversed the feedback left anyway.

You are in a no win situation so I would tell this guy to jump off a bridge. If he leaves negative feedback, reply to it so the world cand see how stupid he is and block him from bidding.

Kmac

Buyer's no idiot
 

The buyer is no newbie to eBay. His feedback is 6948. He is no idiot but he is a first class A-hole. I'm surprised that he doesn't have any negative feedback himself!!!

Refund his money and shipping and tell him to take a hike if he insists on screwing you out of the costs for grading. How nicely you tell him that, I'll leave up to you. ;)

I'd lose the Cobb image. It has nothing to do with the item you were selling. Also, there is no need to put "TRIMMED" in the title. The title line is limited. That's why we have a description area for the details.

my opinion
 

In my opinion, there's only one instance where refunding grading costs would be warranted. That is the case where the seller explicitly states that the card is NOT trimmed and/or that the card is guaranteed to receive a numerical grade.

I play the grading game a lot. Try to buy (gamble) cards that I "think" will grade well and submit them. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, sometimes it rains. I've bought several raw T206s that ended up 5.5+; I've also bought several that were trimmed (including three in my latest submission). I chalk it up to playing the game... definitely not going to win them all.

The buyer (with that feedback) must know the game and certainly wouldn't have given Larry additional money had the card graded a 6.

Should you refund him in any way? Unquestionably NO!!! Clearly a scammer. If he's being a d_ck to you, be one right back!!

However, you seem to be getting a lot of input here from sellers and most are very biased points of view. Sellers want to maximize their profits, so they feel they never do anything wrong.

If nothing else, you should listen to some of us buyers, too. If you're listing a trimmed card, you need to make it much clearer. It's right there in your auction--in red--so I'm not putting any blame on you. But if I was looking at that auction, I'd be disturbed by the almost complete lack of a description. If it's trimmed, say "This card has obviously been trimmed" in your description.

Oh, and get rid of that Cobb picture. :)