1911 sweet caporal t206 red murray portrait, "murr'y" variation! Extremely rare!
 

Just purchased this card since I collect player variations of T206 cards figured with only about 5 known with the sweet caporal back I could not go wrong at this price ....the highest a point higher sold for almost 5000$ in 2009.

Mine has a pretty bad looking back but since it is so rare I don't mind it.

Zone,

I believe this is your third thread of the day.

Did Leon loosen the restriction?

- Eric

Full description of this variation for the one graded SGC 30 (2):

A majority of the advanced T206 enthusiasts actively pursue 520 of the 524 possible T206 basic set subjects. There are; however, a select group of ultra-obscure variations classified as “above and beyond” player versions, with only a handful of extremists relentless in their quest to obtain these additional T206 rarities. One of those near impossible variations is the Red Murray portrait with his name spelled “MURR’Y” at the lower border. How tough is this card to come by? Consider that SGC’s census report currently identifies a paltry 2 Sweet Caporal “MURR’Y” variations! It just so happens that one of those two specimens is now being offered here in an SGC 30/2 holder, with this example the highest recorded Sweet Caporal “MURR’Y” variation! This variation is so scarce, that PSA does not even distinguish it among the various T206 Red Murray cards categorized in their population report. Furthermore, to the best of our knowledge and research, only a handful of other “MURR’Y variations are known, including singular copies for Lenox, Tolstoi and Piedmont cigarettes. While unreported copies may truly exist or turn up in the future, we can only base this premise on a combination of population report data, our own general knowledge of the card’s specific rarity, and the critical feedback received from advanced T206 collectors regarding this extraordinary anomaly. In fact, BOTH existing Sweet Caporal “MURR’Y” variations recently surfaced this past year. If, indeed, only a handful of copies do exist, the future potential for this incredible underrated prize could escalate to unfathomable proportions similar to the sanctified T206 Joe Doyle variation. While this notion remains to be seen, the remote possibility logically suggests collectors should seize a “MURR’Y” variation before the price tag eventually soars to an unattainable stratospheric level. As an added bonus, this offering aesthetic appeal far exceeds the technical assessment, with a bold midnight blue background providing the perfect backdrop for Murray’s classic portrait image. Rounded borders with even wear and a few unobtrusive horizontal creases running across the lower portion of his New York Giants uniform are the primary blemishes accounting for the grade. Fortunately, eye pleasing color and texture, clean white borders and a reverse side bold red Sweet Caporal advertisement elevate this cards eye appeal beyond the 30/2 grade. In closing, rarely does a card surface with the paucity and investment potential as this truly remarkable offering. Keep in mind that even the rarest and most valuable cards at one point in time were considered relative “novices” regarding their obscurity and value. The splendor of the card circuit is the undeniable potential for any seldom seen card to eventually cultivate into a hobby icon. While no one can possibly attest to which card(s) will fall under this umbrella, the T206 “MURR’Y” variation, via its sparse number of known copies, surely fits into the category as a “budding superstar”. We highly advise that you don’t underestimate the future prosperity this offering provides since it just may be one of the scarcest T206 cards in existence.

Final Bid(Includes Buyers Premium): $4,763.45
Number of Bids: 12

Eric72

You are correct I will NOT post anything tomorrow. I apologize Leon as mentioned I will not post anything tomorrow.

That's quite a description! Congratulations on your new acquisition :D

"Above and Beyond" player variations, :confused:

WOW, that may be wordiest auction description I have ever read. Mastery of prose, spellbinding. Did it's job though.

Do you think 2-3 people get in a room, have a few pops and try to out-ridiculous each other on these descriptions?

You do realize that this is not a variation, correct? It's just a defect that caused part of the "A" to not fully print. It was not a deliberate change by the manufacturer or printer and many feel that there should be no price premium attached (except that even those who think that would pick one up to sell to those who do).

So a bad purchase you guys are saying? If you search the net the few that sold....sold for big money....way more than I paid for mine.

Link to auction:

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...est-Graded-Cop

As I posted in another zone91 thread, I think we will be seeing all these cards up for sale in the near future.:confused:

Joe

T206 Museum.com description:

http://www.t206museum.com/page/ga_murray.html

Prices realized for this card:

http://www.t206museum.com/page/ne_auct.html

Just search for his name I believe there are 3 sales all high prices.

Are you guys saying every sale for high prices for this card was a error on the part of each buyer?

Sort of sad how you drop big money on cards that you know very little about, other than that someone thinks they are rare. You haven't the slightest hint about the players you are buying, and then you come on here to try to justify your expense. Do yourself a favor, take a month off, don't buy any cards, and maybe try watching some baseball. See if you even enjoy the game.

And for what it's worth, there is no need to respond to this post.

I did my research see above posts I was brought to believe this card is very rare and based on previous sales the prices are very high on them. I am buying some T206 varieties for my set and figured this to be a good one.

Putting my whole love of the game into question over a bad card purchase is kind of crazy...and that is coming from another semi crazy person....myself. I forgot all the true baseball fans make no errors!!!

You are putting down a ton of money on cards you have very little knowledge of.

I would recommend finding an expert in rare cards and having them help you build your collection. You are very mercurial in your choices, I could probably put up 10 cards here that you would want to buy, doesn't mean you should.

SLOW DOWN!!!!!!

.

Congrats on the pick-up!

Keep in mind that at the time Goodwin auctioned that Murr'y example there were only 2 examples known. It was the highest graded.

You mentioned that there are 5 known now. To the best of my knowledge there are only 4. Has another one been found with a Sweet Caporal back?


Jantz

Jantz

Not that I know of....so you do recognize this card as been rare and valuable?

I think I should have paid around 2250$ for it do.

Murray
 

Congrats on buying a rare card. Whenever you invest in a card that has less than 10 examples known, you have the potential to make money on it someday. Minor printing errors on T206's are quite common, as there are at least 30-40 different printing mistakes known. These includes misprints on lettering, or missing one color of ink. However, some of these have less than 10 examples of that particular player with that particular printing error. Many of the collectors here feel that these types of minor printing errors are not worth thousands of dollars, but that's just their opinion. A card is worth what somebody will pay for it.

I find it odd that the net54 collectors seem to love badly miscut cards, off-register colors, and missing colors. I avoided these like rotton apples when I put together my collection. However, I'm sure they would find some of my collection a bit odd from their point of view.

Bridwell

Thanks for the positive note makes me feel better!!! I guess this card is more for the die hard T206 collectors. It is listed on CardTarget and 3 have sold all for a lot of money so I guess a few people out there do want this card and are ready to pay big bucks...I am sure when time to sell it if I have patience I will at least get my money back....and will have had the time to enjoy it.

Adri@n

Only four examples known, so I would put that in the rare column. Of course, that is my opinion.

As far as value, I can't really comment on that. It all comes down to what a buyer is willing to spend.

If you are happy with adding the card to your set or collection, what does it matter what you paid for it?

Look at it this way, you have a card that only 2 other collectors have in their set.


Jantz

Jantz

Thanks!!! You mean 3 other (mine and the other 3 known examples) collectors have in their set unless you meant you have one in yours?

Zone: If you have a scanner I would love to see a clearer view of the front, (and the back for that matter), of the card!!

I can't decide whether or not I'm seeing an apostrophe or a piece of an A?!?!

Julz24

Use this link the seller has very clear images of the front and back of the card:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/121094488834?...84.m1497.l2649

Adri@n

As far as I know, two are owned by one person, my example and now your example.

I'm just curious and if you don't want to answer my question, that's fine, I'll understand, but did you buy your Murr'y from an auction house or Ebay? I haven't seen your Murr'y yet because it appears that you edited your first post, so that's why I ask.

Jantz

I see that you answered my question before I even posted it. I followed the link and see you bought it off of Ebay.


Jantz

The front is nice but the back of the card sure did take a beating over the last 100 + years.

Adrian! Nice card. Buy what you like, that's what I do. What is your ultimate goal.....to have a collection of 2 or 3 dozen rare cards...or 100 or more? Also are you going after any sets? What are your thoughts on TPGs...Do you want to have a uniform collection all graded by the same co? Or do you prefer raw? I used to be a raw only guy....now I try to stay with psa. Good luck and keep us informed of your acquisitions....many here are interested. :)Dave

Cardboard Junkie

My goals are the following:

-Buy only the rarest T206 cards I can afford (I can't afford the Wagner like 99% of the population)....I also already own the Ray Demmitt St-Louis variation in SGC 30 (2), The Christhy Mathewson PSA 4 Dark Cap and Walther Johnson hands to chest in PSA 4;

-I prefer PSA & BVG for me SGC is my 3rd option;

-No not into collecting sets;

-I want to also collect rarer T206 backs but most likely only in a couple of years if they are still affordable that is;

-I want to own a 52 Topps Mantle in PSA 4 or PSA 5 and

-I want to buy as many 1887 Old Judge HOF players as possible with the best images I can find.

I would love to own a shoeless Joe Jackson E90-1 Caramel in PSA 1 or PSA 2.

That pretty much sums up my goals.

Ahhh... Thanks.

Ya, from a layman's first glance, it appears to be a part of the A that for whatever reason was never completely printed out. Either way, it's still a mistake. A rare error.

Nice pickup. Like someone stated earlier, its likely just a printing error. The good news, however, is that collectors snatch up t206 errors like they are made of gold.

I assume yours is the one on ebay, that sold at bagger recently.

No. I saw the auction where you bought the card....I think you paid fair market for it based on other sales history. You additionally need to take into account grade of the card. You link to a 2/10 and yours is a 1/10.

I offered you what you paid, to let you out of the card if you want out, but it sounds like you collect these variations.

Let me know.

Kevin

Adrian,

Chill out and learn from some folks on here. You stated you only wanted some of the rare T206's, yet you list the Christy Mathewson dark cap and WaJo hands at chest (great cards but nothing rare about either one).

Adrian- not all collectors respect cards such as the Murr'y because it is not a variation. It was likely caused by a pinpoint of grease or dirt getting on the printing plate and blocking a tiny bit of ink from adhering to the card. That's all it is. Some collectors will pay a lot for it anyway, others disregard it.

It's okay if you choose to purchase it, but it helps to know a little bit about it.

I am going to keep the card I find it to be interesting and based on it's rarity and previous sales I paid the right price for it.

are you the guy selling the card on ebay?

kevin

There are lots of obscure variations in the 206 set. I would think a low grade Magie error would be a better buy for that kinda cash or a blank or rare back for that matter. They will continue to rise in value where a card such as the Murr'y my not or not as quickly. Do your research first. Buy why you like and be happy. That's what the hobby is about.

thehoodedcoder

No I am the new owner. I am sorry the card is not for sale I will keep it as part of my collection of T206 cards.

T205 GB:

The only 1909 T206 Magie Error card for sale at the moment on Ebay is for 7700$ in SGC 20 (1)...I do not find it to be attractive I would rather pay a little more and get say a PSA/BVG 2 with no stains on the front or back.

Ebay link:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1909-T206-Mag...item20d117d5d7

Hey Zone91,
It is verry funny to see your post.

You are unable to buy a 800$ from me.
You asked me to give to you a loan, and time payment until june for a 800$ card... and now since two week, if all you said is true, you buy for arround
50 000$ of cards and now you want a Magie and a O'hara... LOL


Funny .....

g_vezina_c55

As far as me spending money I sold a coin (for well over 200 000$) and will be paid by this Friday for it (to a close personal friend who must fly down to pick it up this week...he was extremely busy with family issues last week) so hence the wait for the 800$....no other reason. I use my other money (pay from work) for house payments, food and all sorts of other bills like 99% of people.

You should have simply asked in private I would have told you the same thing there instead of trying to make me look stupid here....Leon is well aware I sold a coin for over 200 000$. I was not in the mood to bring up the value of my coin here...but I guess you changed that.

Buy what you like, but I will offer this one piece advice....

Better buying opportunities will exist, sooner or later, beyond the "buy it now" auctions on ebay.ca, if one has some patience.

Out of sheer idle curiosity, what particular coin was it?

CW

I am starting to look closer to various auctions houses...you are correct better prices are to be had for sure.:)

Eric72

The King of Canadian coins the 1921 50 cent graded mint state 65 by ICCS (value of 300 000$ to 350 000$...only 50 known in all grades and only 3-5 in mint state). The prince of Canadian coins is the 1921 nickel and the Emperor is the 1911 1$ with 2 in a museum and the other sold for 1.2$ million a few years ago to a friend of mine.

1921 fifty cents

During the early to mid-1920s, demand for 50-cent pieces was minimal. Only 28,000 pieces were issued between 1921 and 1929. When greater demand for the denomination arose in 1929, the Master of the Ottawa Mint decided to melt the stock of 1920 and 1921 coins. It amounted to a total of 480,392 coins. The decision was due to the belief that the public would suspect counterfeits if a large number of coins dated 1920 and 1921 were placed into circulation. It is believed that 75 or so of the 1921 coins have survived, mainly from sets that were sold at the time.[6] Long known as the "King of Canadian Coins", this piece brings a price commensurate with its rarity and reputation, with a high grade example (PCGS MS-66) having sold for US$227,546 (this price includes buyers premium but not the taxes) in a January 2010 Heritage Auction.[7] The highest graded specimen is graded by PCGS at MS-67 and sold (by Diverse Equities[8]) in the year 2000 to a private collector for the then sum of $400,000. Today this coin would most likely bring $1 million at an auction.

Condition rarity: Almost all examples are found in good to very good condition, which means in heavily circulated condition. Based on the ICCS report of 2012 only 1 has been graded in fine condition. A total of 0 have been graded in very fine and 0 in extra fine. There are also 6 known in AU condition. Only 3 mint state examples of the King of Canadian coins exist making it extremely elusive and desirable. On average a mint state example comes up for sale once every 10 years and draws a lot of attention from wealthy buyers.

Value (s) in very good (VG-8) and gem mint state (MS-65): As of 2012 the value is estimated at $45,000 in very good condition and is estimated at $250,000 to $350,000 in gem mint condition. These are average trends calculated by using prices sold in the past few years.

Hey Adrian.
good for you and i hope your story is true.
But everyone i know who are able to have a 200K coin , didn t have to sell his coin for spend another 800$ on a card.

Hope your story is true and good luck in your next purchase.

g_vezina_c55

I live alone and have all my bills to pay alone....my money was tied up in my coin collection (my parents died and I invested in ultra rare coins with the money from the insurance I got...did not want to pend it on crazier things...I did not pay much for the 1921 50 cent years ago) hence the sale of most of them....I am using the money for rarer cards and the rest to pay off my house if possible.

The 1921 50 cent is the most important circulated coin in Canada like your 1804 dollar in the U.S that sells for millions of dollars.

Nice,
good luck in your magie purchase .

Why the fire sale? It seems (to me) that you left quite a bit of money on the table.

Eric72

Because when a buyer actually has cash to pay you for that amount for a Canadian coin you have to jump (unlike the U.S coin market with a lot of millionaires here in Canada the market is very limited at the top of the food chain) on it....I do not want cash + trade so the cash sounded really good to me...I did not pay close to that years ago for it.

Most important I wanted to pay my house off and have no more mortgage. Live free and happy like they say.

Um, Zone...Nelson is from Canada.

Just thought you should know.

Eric

Sorry Nelson!!! If ever you want to see all the rare coins that exist almost the currency museum in Ottawa is great to visit and free admission....I have been there a few times. They have two of the three 1911 $ dollars + a super nice collection only missing a few coins like the famous 1936 dot penny the have the 1936 dot dime (2 of them...only 5 exist).

Why you are sorry Adrian ?
I am not a coin collector.

g_vezina_c55

For the mistake though you where from the U.S.

OK

I did purchase a card from a member here the Ray Demmitt St-Louis variation from the T206 collection....the member is called The_Coop....here is aware of my coin sale.

Like I said the MOST IMPORTANT thing was for me to pay off my mortgage and live a good life...cards came second in my decision to sell my 1921 50 cent....once that is paid off I will have a lot more money available for my hobby per month/year.

+1 with what Jantz said here.

When it comes to T206's, I'd say due to the very small # of known examples, I'd (myself) consider this a rare card. Not a variation, more of an error.

And as is every card, what it's worth is what someone is willing to pay.

Nice pick up-

Sincerely, Clayton

teetwoohsix

Thanks for the good vibes appreciate it!!!:)

No problem Adrian, glad you are enjoying the hobby :)

Sincerely, Clayton

If you're still waiting on this coin windfall, have you actually paid for any of your card purchases yet? :confused:

teetwoohsix

Also enjoying the people here bad or good....people here are much more fun than coin collectors are.:cool:

4815162342

No...all the dealers are aware of the situation and are completely fine with it (they have all seen my 100% positive feedback on Ebay)....they WILL all be paid no worries....I know my friend who purchased the coin he is a young millionaire and has more than enough funds to pay for the coin and he always wanted that specific coin for his collection. I will see him by no later than this Thursday.

I would have not done the same if it was not this specific friend...but I know him very well he ALWAYS pays.

sigh...

4815162342

Why do you say that?? I know my friend (we have been friends for a long time) he is a multi millionaire and when he says he wants some thing he does and ALWAYS pays. He simply needs to take a plane down and give me his certified check...not a big deal...like I said he had family issues last week his daughter was very sick....hence I had to wait till this week for him to come down!!!

What I am suppose to do his daughter comes 1st and I understand that....coins and cards are a far second compared to a child!!! What am I suppose to say who cares about your kid I need the cash right now to pay for some baseball cards...that is just not OK and totally against my way of thinking!!!

Adrian, congrats on the pickups, you've certainly jumped feet first into the deep end. I haven't commented on any of your threads yet just been sitting back, reading and enjoying the banter to be honest.

Maybe you just enjoy all the attention your threads bring you, but my only comment/question would be, are you familiar with the phrase "discretion is the better part of valor"? There are many collectors on here with amazing collections who have the resources to acquire some tremendous pieces for their collection. But you rarely if ever will you find them on here posting/creating their own threads to show off, announce, broadcast and flaunt their purchases. They'll post it in the "Pickups" thread where such posts belong and be done with it. It doesn't bother me, some however might take a dim view of your posting tactics and might account for some of the abrasive(?) comments.

On the positive, you're so far out of my collecting limits, at least I know you won't be going after any of the cards I collect which should help keep my costs down :)

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

auggiedoggy

Read the above post...ask Leon he is aware of my coin sale (or ask Brian at B&W sports cards he knows about my 1921 50 cent)...gezzz guys what is wrong with you his child was to ill for him to come down last week...we spoke yesterday he will be here by no later than this Thursday.

Where is the compassion for a sick child!!!

You guys are over thinking every little thing WAY to much for no good reason!!!! In a couple of days you guys will be like well crap he was actually telling us the truth he paid for his cards.

"There are many collectors on here with amazing collections who have the resources to acquire some tremendous pieces for their collection. But you rarely if ever will you find them on here posting/creating their own threads to show off, announce, broadcast and flaunt their purchases. They'll post it in the "Pickups" thread where such posts belong and be done with it."

Well said Mark!

I have a policy which is to never buy something with money I don't have. If I ever forget this policy, I have a wife that will remind me. What if this coin deal goes bad for whatever reason? Not saying it will but if it does?

I Second marks comment. This has absolutely nothing to do with a sick child...eek gads!

oldcardboard

I am new to this hobby (vintage cards I mean) hence I post more and like to talk about specific purchases I have made...in a few weeks I will be doing like the rest here posting in the proper section...for now it motivates me to talk here.

I should I have NOT told you guys about the coin sale it will not go bad he has over 30 million dollars and is a dear and close friend....he ALWAYS PAYS!!!

Funny your guys are worried but the dealers are not at all!!!

And im sure your rich friend is happy youre publicizing this?! How about showing us yours...and his tax returns?!

I got my second cup of coffee and am ready to read the next chapter!! Who's with me!!

ullmandds

Again a crazy judgement I paid taxes when I purchased it and will pay the capital gains taxes when I sell it....I am not a thief!!! He will also pay the taxes....do you think my bank will not ask me where the money is from anything over 10 000$ they do a verification check....no I am special they will turn their backs....hahahaha come on we all pay taxes!!!

This is fun you guys for once you guys sound more crazy than I do!!!! Oh yeah I want to go to jail over tax evasion for the couple years over a coin.....hahahaha!!!!

This is insane!

4815162342

This has nothing to do with you as long as the dealers are fine then I am fine.

AND AGAIN THEY WILL ALL BE PAID IN FULL!!!!

Frankly, as a dealer, I *would* be concerned. As far as this whole saga is concerned, I can't tell fact from fiction anymore.

Insane!!!!!!!!

auggiedoggy

You can be concerned all you like they say it is good for your hearth!!!!:D

Leon has already spoken to me about all of this and he knows all will be OK....the only ones nervous are a few of you guys!!!