Getting sick of the more obvious frauds
 

This Star Player Cobb card has been on ebay for a while with the following description: "The last SGC 10 (1) sold for $6900 and this card rarely comes up for auction." The seller generously listed it for a huge discount at $5299. Only one problem: the "last" SGC 10 of this card was his purchase 30 days ago for $2629. The $6900 figure is from a sale in 2008.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1928-Star-Pl...item20d161bb63

What do you think of this one? Fraud, or just a terrible scanner?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151021973737

Looks like it spent some time in a washing machine.

Unfortunately finding legit sellers who aren't trying to rip people off or asking a king's go***mn ransom on every single card is getting harder and harder to find in this hobby. It truly is becoming a sad state of affairs. I honestly believe some people think everybody but them are morons who have "no idea" how to research what cards are actually worth and what they've recently sold for. It's actually quite insulting to potential buyers.

I LOVE the guys who JUST purchased cards a few days, few weeks or few months prior then mark it up 200-300% of what they JUST bought it for, lol! I mean seriously.....it's getting old REAL fast.

I saw that a week or so ago and thought exactly the same thing. I don't understand sellers like this at all. Blatantly dishonest.

Buyer beware: A TPG poor grade can mean almost anything... The $6900 card received the same grade but they don't compare... Oh, he doctored the scan too :D

I'm a post war vintage guy, but see the same thing. I've actually now seen a couple of cards where I was the underbidder showing up here on our B/S/T for three or four times the ebay won price. I don't mind someone trying to make a little profit, but some seem ridiculous...

I've said it many times, I'm all for sellers trying to make a little profit, hell I've been known to be very generous in my offers compared to recent sales on certain cards. But I draw the line when sellers act like an a$$ with me by deliberately asking 2-3 times what a card has been selling for. They think just because they see a couple fluke large price spikes on a couple rare cards here and there in major auction houses, that everybody is a moron now and willing to way overpay for every single card.

It's an annoying trend that's been growing a lot lately not only here but on Ebay as well. It's caused a handful of my former collecting buddies, whom I've known since the late 90's when we all got into vintage cardboard, to completely leave the hobby. Not because they didnt have deep enough pockets (which definitely wasn't the case), it was because they were tired of constantly dealing with unrealistic sellers for every little thing.

Ok rant over........

Personally
 

I agree with Jeff about lying in descriptions. However those complaining about people's prices, get over it. It's their card if you don't like it maybe you should have outbid them the first time, when they bought it. It's America they have the right to price as they see fit. Do you same people go into the big box stores and complain because you could buy the tv or ipad cheaper on ebay? Ebay isn't really a retail market, it's pricing is sort of a retail/wholesale mixture. Like I said if you dont like someones price make them an offer if they have that option, if not just move on it's only cardboard. Absent lying I don't see why a person cant ask what they want for their card. Also this idea that nothing has ever sold in auction for a fraction of it's value is also laughable. Many times things sell on eBay for 1/2 to 1/3 of value. There's a lot of material and things slip through the cracks.

You can ask whatever you want for something... Not sure why people are ripping on someone for trying to profit... I've listed cards at 2-3x what I've paid thinking someone would make an offer. Actually, that is what I would hope for in that case. If you don't want something or think it is too high either make an offer or just move along...

I rescind my post here, apparently my coffee had not kicked in this morning.

My apologies for mixing up the facts.

No matter what sellers (or buyers) shouldn't lie. That being said, in mind mind too, a seller can ask what they want to. There are some sellers I won't deal with and some that are so high I generally won't bother with an offer. And there is one good hobby friend, fairly large ebay seller, who gives me very close to half off on what he has for pricing of his stuff on ebay, all the time. But the adjusting of scans with s/w sucks. I have to admit I have my last E221 that looked super great in scan then when I got it, not quite as great. It was a very obvious scanner "fraud".

Awwww....just love when people out themselves as "those" sellers ;)

Now we all have reference points in which to avoid when it comes time to buy.

Nobody said sellers couldn't "ask what they want" or "rip off who they want" they just shouldn't be surprised when they get no business or are met with no nonsense buyers like myself and many others who have a very low tolerance for bull$hit.

Found myself one of those too. I send him business constantly every month because of the massive discounts from prices listed on their Ebay/web stores. Like I said, many smart buyer know where to go and exactly who to avoid like the plague. Just too many sellers in this hobby under the false impression that buyers like to be bent over and given dry.

Of course, sellers can ask anything they want for cards they own. But my thoughts pretty much echo Shoele$$'. Even discounting the limitless number of outright frauds and scammers on Ebay, that site in particular is nothing like it used to be 10 years ago. So much of the business model of many sellers on there now seems to be hope for a sucker to come along.

It amuses me as well to see a card, often times not even a particularly rare card, appear as a BIN at three or four times what it sold for at auction just a few weeks or months earlier.

The description has been changed to remove the BS; however, I personally couldn't call it the highest grade example, if i were selling it. I guess it's not technically a lie, but it's probably the ugliest example in the hobby.

Matt,

I apologize, maybe the coffee had not kicked in this morning yet. I could have sworn that when I checked the serial numbers this morning that the 2008 one matched the one for sale now on Ebay.

It was my mistake.

Very true and very sad to see the current state of this hobby. I long for the early days of Ebay in the late 90's and early 2000's when there were actually AUCTIONS for bidders to determine what the value of a card was. Not just a bunch of stupid, ridiculously priced BINs sitting on that site collecting dust hoping for the suckers to come by.

I was kind of surprised to see who the seller was for this card...

I guess it's a good thing that the discussed part of the description has been removed, but misrepresentation makes me a little sick to my stomach.


With regard to pricing, I see no reason why someone can't ask whatever they want for a card. There are a few reasons for this, one being freedom, but the other is the unpredictability of certain buyers, usually ones who aren't as involved in the hobby as some of you more knowledgeable buyers.



.

Right....that's the "sucker" theory which has been discussed. Those are the sellers who are blacklisted and completely avoided when doing business ;)

Buyers including many new to the hobby are becoming A LOT more diligent and are starting to know better with the endless supply of info on pricing that's out there. But it's true, as long as there's suckers, there will always be rip off artists waiting in the shadows for them. Every hobby has them, and some have a lot more of them than others such as ours.

This has been explained before, but I don't think anyone's listening.

But, again...."three or four times..." is excessive, but ebay policies are the reasons for most of the high BIN's, not sellers trying to find suckers. It used to be that a seller could purchase a collection based on ebay prices, then break it up on ebay with straight auctions. For a variety of reasons, that simply doesn't work any more. Yeah, yeah - I know about PWCC, Henry Yee and a few others, but I'm not going there.

The new business model is to either price an item at your bottom line BIN, or to price it much higher, with 'make an offer', which also results in the bottom line that you need in order to make a required profit.

And yes, there are ridiculous variations of the above that aren't effective and result in knowledgeable collectors getting upset, and we have all had times when we thought we had a very valuable item, but it turned out that the market didn't agree with us. We have also seen board members complain about a high-priced BIN on ebay, only to be told that the card really is worth close to the amount it's being offered at.

I long for the day when sellers price their cards at what they are willing to take rather than going on a fishing trip to see what they can get.

Can't stand the "you got taken because you were not smart about it" line of reasoning. That is an admittance of knowingly taking advantage of people.

The hobby is great. Too bad there are so many people that make is suck.

Actually
 

Shole$$, When I sold I was considered rather cheap on my prices. I would always have dealers linign up at my table to buy. If I were to sell now I know you wouldnt buy from me. I simply dont need the money more than the cards and would list stuff for a high price because i honestly wouldnt really want to sell it.

Unfortunately it seems that is the MO of many large ebay sellers. It's getting more and more difficult to wade through their "any suckers today?" pricing models....

The above is exactly what I was talking about when I posted (immediately before it) "This has been explained before, but I don't think anyone's listening."

I understand that business model ebay is dictating. It still sucks.

It does. Also, if you think about how ebay auctions were run 10+ years ago, our complaint was normally that starting prices were too high. No biggy - we simply didn't bid, they were eventually run at lower starting prices, and they sold for market value. What caused that situation? My guess is that generally it was unknowedgeable sellers who didn't want to get screwed, not people looking for suckers.

I think some of the high BIN's are due to the same, and also to sellers paying too much for inventory. I've carefully priced out large lots in the past, bid them almost up to retail (non-ebay), then found the lot broken up on ebay a few weeks later, with very high BIN's. Many of those cards are still doing the 30-day cycle on ebay, and will HAVE to sell at what some of you consider "sucker" prices in order for the seller to make any profit. You can blame the seller for paying too much, but he's not going to back down on a $50,000 group of cards.

A lot of dynamics going on.

I understand the Ebay fee structure and the need to make a profit. I was talking about cards that will sit on Ebay forever because they are so far out of the ballpark that no one is ever going to come along and buy them. :)

Eventually I'm going to say something that really offends someone :), but it's not intentional - I'm frustrated as much as anyone. On my end it's simply a problem of finding inventory at prices low enough that I can sell on ebay.

You're absolutely right, I probably wouldn't buy from you as I and most educated buyers prefer sellers who really want to sell. But your situation does seem to be popping up more often lately. But as always, it's only a matter of time before sellers turn from "I guess I can sell" to "I REALLY need to sell" due to finances, health problems, family problems, doctor bills etc. That "dynamic" will always be part of the equation ;). I always say you just need to have the patience of a sniper, eventfully you'll get your mark.

What's the point of listing something if you don't want to sell it? That seems like a waste of time for you and others interested.

For the record
 

I'm more talking about setting up at a show which id do more to hang out with old friends than to sell. Just about anything except junk that I'd have out I'd want to probably replace or get something similar so I'd want to be able to rebuy item and make a couple bucks. I fail to see how that's looking for a sucker or trying to rip someone off?

Matthew gets it! Exactly my biggest issue with certain "sellers" in this hobby. All they do is waste their time and everybody else's. Don't even list the card or contact buyers looking to buy....please just keep your cards for the time being if you truly have no interest in selling.

There you go again Jeff getting bogged down in the details. What do you expect honesty and integrity, along with executives of auction houses not shilling and stealing millions from their clients? :)

How the hell
 

Is asking more than it sells for in auction unethical. Is Walmart unethical is bestbuy, or target , or whole foods, and every other single retailer in the country? Please give me a break.

He was referring specifically to card shows. Why attack him for that? Also, not everyone's life is focused on "your time". I don't even know you, but based on what I'm reading, I think I might actually enjoy the thought that I'm wasting some of your time.

There is nothing wrong with making money, but there is something wrong with lying in the description of an item, that is "looking for a sucker".

There's a big difference between asking for a little profit from what one paid vs. trying to bend over an unsuspecting buyer by asking 2-3 times what it's worth. Come on now. But again, anybody can ask whatever the hell they want for whatever the hell they own.....doesn't mean they're ever gonna see it ;)

Also bad comparison, Bestbuy, Target and Walmart all compete with each other, so competive pricing will always rule the day.

And not everybody's life is focused on YOUR motives. If you don't like it move the f*ck along. Send me a PM if you're still having a hard time. And nobody is "attacking" anybody....yet.

They do not match eBay auctions
 

They match each other you are making the wrong comparison. I was equating those stores to the retailer. You just read what you want to dont you.

Nope read it as you post it.

Settle down child. I have no desire to communicate with you by PM, or any other way. I was simply defending a legitimate board member who you attacked for no good reason.

Leon - is the playpen area ready yet?

Since when is a 33 year old with children a "child"? So now you like to insult? Does it make you feel better about coming up "short" in a certain department? You don't need to defend anybody, everybody is a big boy here who can handle themselves. And once again, your definition of "attacking" somebody needs help. If anything your response to me was the first "attack" in the thread.

Let's hope....because you're ready to go in it.

Hey guys
Let's cut the personal arguing please and get back to arguing about impotent (sic) stuff!!

Not looking to pick a fight here but there are two sides to every coin. Yes I agree some folks asking prices are up there. Especially when a card that is very publicly sold for say $2000 and then relisted for $10,000 on eBay. Sometimes I do see this and wonder why bother?

However not all offers are inline on the buying side either. Glenn example you contacted me about my VGEX Broad Leaf Tris Speaker asking if I would consider parting with it. Ultimately your offer price was lower than what I paid for the card two years ago.

I personally wasn’t offended or anything it’s all good. I only bring this up as an example. I can see how folks can get their feathers ruffled by what seem like insane offers be that buying or selling.

Cheers,

John

Millions? I have a hard time believing it could be more than $70k.

I'm glad you brought that up John, but you did fail to mention my last offer which was over $1,000 more than what you paid. But again it's irrelevant as we chose not to deal. You're a good guy John, I'm sure down the road we may come to an agreement.

Lying is always wrong in trying to sell a card but there is nothing wrong with trying to sell a card for a profit. To be honest, I am tired of hearing people complain about a seller askingt more for a card than they want to pay. It isn't a "rip-off" or an immoral act, it is an offer of merchandise for sale. The nice thing about the market is that if no one wants to pay for a card it won't sell and the seller can either keep it or lower the price to meet the market.

Also, with respect to scans, not all scan manipulations are meant to defraud. It can be difficult to gauge whether your scanner got an accurate read on a card because it in large part depends on your monitor settings and quality. What looks good on one monitor doesn't look right on another. That said, certain AHs and sellers are notorious for jacking up the contrast and saturation on their items--like, for example, one whose leaders are under indictment. Their images sometimes are so saturated that they look like sets from Star Trek. I don't find that particularly difficult to pick up if the card is graded--I just look at the flip because I know what the flip should look like.

I fail to see the problem or a big difference. This seems to be begging for the question of a reasonable profit according to who? What is reasonable if not 2-3 times it's "worth"? 10% markup? 20%? 50?

Exactly. So let the seller ask for 2-3x it's "worth". And who again is to say that the 2-3x asking price isn't WORTH it to the buyer? You?

Unless it's a one-of-a-kind item, then the 2-3x asking price can be compared to other similar items. And even then, history is no guarantee of current or future "worth" or value to the buyer.

Please understand, I'm not trying to pick on you. But the idea of others trying to determine the validity of an agreement freely made between 2 parties really rubs me the wrong way. Regardless of how absurd or unreasonable it seems.

After coming back to the hobby after years away like so many of you, I had to educate myself. I have been moderately successful with pick-ups and have had a lot of fun in the process because I have done my due diligence. Sure there are cards that I have made offers on that were declined, only to remain listed for months now. I had one issue with a seller that Ebay had to step in a rectify. Point being, I may shake my head in disbelief for a moment but, ultimately I pass on those sellers that are out of line in one way or another and don't lose a second of sleep over it.
Businesses close everyday. Putting the offenders, and there will always be offenders, on your list and moving on will speed that process up.

Glenn, that’s not entirely true and don’t appreciate the implication. :(

Happy to post the PM if you like.

I was trying to be nice and have a civil discussion on how folks can see things two different ways when it comes to offers.

If you are referring to the section in which after I tell you we are way off on a deal but thank you for reaching out, in which you counter with the “I may go $5500” and then explain how you don’t buy into fads etc. Then yes I guess you offered $800 dollars more. However the deal was done seeing as you weren’t close I didn’t take this as an offer and you know that.

My point Glenn is that as much as you can say why even list a card for sale if you’re not looking to sell? The same response can be on the other side of the fence from the seller saying why even reach out to me and offer to buy something if the offer isn’t going to be a serious offer.

As to tougher back HOF players being a fad that’s all in the eye of the collector and I guess the market will decided that should I decide to sell.

Well I don't know you tell me, is an item sitting on Ebay for 3 years at a ridiculous price just something that I noticed and chose not be an idiot and buy??? The answer is a resounding no and the fact that cards just sit and sit and sit for years further validates my (and other's) whole point. Not to single you out, but If you happen to be one of these "sellers" then more power to you. Hope you have all the time in the world.

On a side note, remember when owners/sellers of real property thought the housing market was going to stay "hot" forever??.....lol......yeah, how'd that turn out?

Actually John, you stopped the negotiations as claiming "you really don't need to sell" so that's when the door shut. You're more than welcome to post whatever you want, but the fact remains that you really weren't serious about selling (please at least admit to that) which dictated my offers. I didn't become a successful business owner by playing the "games". There's a reason you still have it and that's all that really needs to be discussed here.

As other sellers here whom I've dealt with will attest, I have no problem handing out money for what I want, but when I'm met with "I do have it, but I'm not really in any hurry to sell" I already know it's gonna be a waste of time as not matter what, the offer is never gonna be "good enough", it's the case in almost all business aspects.

We can all stipulate that a seller has every right to ask whatever he wants. That said, I have found over the last few years that certain BST users just come across as cheap hustlers. All of the sudden a card mysteriously increases in value by thousands. Nothing illegal or even unethical I suppose. I just find it tedious and it makes the forum overall less pleasant. But that's just me.

To me most of the sellers we are talking about don't care if they sell the cards. Actually to call them sellers is a misnomer. They are listers looking for a certain level of return, they don't care if you and I think it is realistic. They can wait for the price they want, or they can put their money in a CD and earn a half percent. The other part is eBay had made it so operationally easy to be this type of lister as well as financially attractive there really is no downside other than pissing a few folks off. And that obviously doesn't bother them. Just move on.

Now, out and out lying in a description - another matter entirely.

Sorry Leon, it's gotten old having to listen to this plethora of, if not children, certainly child-like new posters who jump right in and start attacking people for no good reason. I completely expected the rebuttal I got, but the original victim of Shoele$$ certainly didn't deserve it, and when I see such a blatantly ridiculous accusation, I'll defend the board member. If we don't, we'll get overrun as we did temporarily with the crowd that got kicked off the PSA board. Actually, I'm not certain this newest wave didn't come from there as well.

Yes, the sudden emigration from the CU board has mostly worn off. I invite everyone over there to come here but act more like we do here than there :). At least here everyone WILL put their name by their posts..which is my biggest pet peeve over there. I know it's a huge hassle to have 100% compliance so don't blame other boards for their lack of mandating it...but it still sucks when people hurl stones while hiding behind a keyboard. At least over here when someone slams you, you will know who it is (unless falsely registered, which will be figured out in due time).

"Victim"...lol. You really are a piece of work, thank god you don't run in my circles. Have a great day Scotty ;)

'Scotty' is kind of predictable. Try something more creative: runny-scott, ruin-scott, runny, etc. But 'Scotty' is just plain boring. If you every have anything serious or useful to say, you'll try what the others on this board use: 'Scott'. Simple but effective.

As far as running in your circles, that's certainly not going to happen. You are allowed here, as is everyone, so you are somewhat unavoidable.

Glenn the reason I still have the card is you offered $4500 dollars for a card that I bought two years ago for $4700. I wasn’t interested in selling it to you at your offer that doesn’t make me unreasonable or make the card not for sale.

Cheers,

John

I can think of something a lot more fitting for you, don't worry

On I know it's not going to happen, however there should be that little button that says "ignore", you are truly MORE than welcome to utilize it if you haven't already, then problem solved, you're back to sleeping better at night ;)

John you know damn well my ceiling would have been higher if I felt you honestly were ready to move on it. We can always revisit it.

That's the problem. The 'tell' has been the foul language that some of these guys are having to use in order to make their point. I realize that's common in most internet forums, but it's something we've done a good job of avoiding.

And I really get a laugh when a newbie responds to me as 'Scotty'. Not that I need to, but at that point I know I own them. :)

Exiting yet another infected thread. Have a good one.

You should have made that decision a long time ago before you got in over your head and contributed to the "infection".....Scotty ;)

I'm sorry, but I fail to see your "whole point" as it relates to my response to SPECIFIC comments you made (hence breaking apart your post into specific quotes and commenting on those specific statements).

"There's a big difference between asking for a little profit from what one paid vs. trying to bend over an unsuspecting buyer..." seems like a value judgement to me. I was just trying to understand what is NOT "trying to bend" someone over (in your opinion) and why 2x might be "bad" (the implication you made) but a 20% markup (or whatever) might not be. I might even agree that the buyer IS an idiot. But that doesn't mean the seller was trying bend someone over. Others have pointed out valid reasons why the asking price is so high. If it's too much, I just pass them by.

Maybe it's just my sore-spot for the "obscene profits" canard that's showing here. Sorry for that.

Of course you did, otherwise why why imply, assume, or even need to mention this. For the record, I'm not. And have actually been blocked by a few sellers (one having the same card at the 2010 and 2012 National, and still listed online) for having offered what I considered a reasonable price. Rather than grouse about it, I just moved on. The good thing: That's one more booth I can fly past in Chicago. :)

Again, not sure of your point here as it relates to anything I've said. Unless you are actually agreeing with my statement regarding the basic premise of a contract freely made between 2 parties.

On second thought, it IS a lot like buyer cards. Buy what you like for what you think is a fair price. Probably a general life lesson to boot. Cheers! :)

These "sellers" are committing no crime, you are not entitled to buy their card at a fair price and you are only wasting your time if you choose to. Move on.

Glenn this has nothing to do with me or my lack of motivation. As a buyer it’s on you to motivate me to sell an item that I truly don’t need to sell let alone sell at a loss. I made it clear in the PM on the “do you have a price in mind” comment from you “not cheap” I said…your offer to that comment less than what I publicly paid 2 years ago.

You know the value of these cards; you know what they go for certainly enough to lecture me about fads and price points. Heck you even point out to that I would do better at auction and get more while the back craze is in full swing for this card vs. selling to you today, good advice after you didn’t score the card cheap. I loved that part.

Even more insulting that now you want to play big dog and claim you would have gone way higher and it was me that was holding you back from making a “real” offer. Really I made you lowball me? I have to stop doing that to myself.

This is exactly my point for every unreasonable seller they’re just as many unreasonable buyers. Because I didn’t jump at your offer I’m an unreasonable seller who just doesn’t get it and was wasting your time with items that you have deemed not for sale because they didn’t get sold to you at your offer price.

Cheers,

John

That's too funny. It looks to me like Shoele$$ just wanted to buy the card low and then flip it on an AH to take advantage of the "fad" and make some profit...which sounds a LOT like what he's criticizing others for doing. Priceless!

And you think by telling me you don't "have to sell" or "it won't be cheap" didnt dictate my offer and responses?? Again....I don't play the seller games.

Yeah I was looking to pay close to $6,000 for a card that was paid $4,000 for and then look to "flip it" for a huge profit immediately. Would you pay me or him $10,000 for it??? That's what I thought, the answer is almost always gonna be no. And if it's too hard for you to follow in this thread, I'm a collector, not a shady seller.

Personally, I don't know why this back and forth between John and Glenn is getting so much "press." I've had the same conversations at least 50 times both as buyer and seller that pretty much just look the same as that one. It's no big deal. Move on, nothing to see here. As the buyer, you think the reasonable price should be lower. The seller thinks it should be higher. Both have valid reasons. Deals fall apart all of the time. Who cares? Doesn't have to get personal.

I wouldnt pay 10000 dollars for a baseball card ever, I dont think.

But he was up front with you, said he paid 4700 (not 4000) and you offer 4500...and he bought it before the "fad" hit.

Obviously he thinks its worth considerably more than the price he bought it for. I think you do too. You wanted to flip it for profit, didn't you?

That's what I thought.

Gary, agree 100%

The reason this was brought up is that Glenn was making claims that sellers waste folks time by having things listed for sale that aren’t in his eyes really for sale.

I simply brought this up to Glenn that perhaps why things aren’t sometimes for sale is the price being offered isn’t in line. Case in point his PM to me…now Glenn has turned this to it was my fault he offered low and all of this falls back on the seller he contacted out of the blue. Nothing is on Glenn and I was somehow playing games yet then again he contacted me hmmm how did I do this again? :)

I really don’t care either way just thought it was funny Glenn on his soapbox talking about fair dealings and real offers and not wasting folks time and having this in my PM box just the other day. :)

Cheers,

John

How did you jump to THAT conclusion? :rolleyes:
It wasn't from the "that's how smart buyers lose money in the future, just like in the stock market" statement in the PM, was it? ;)

It doesn't matter what John paid for it. I've bought plenty of cards only to find out later that I overpaid for it, and have a hard time going down and losing money on the card in order to get to "market price." However, John doesn't believe that is the case with this card in regards to correct market value, and probably thinks Glenn is lowballing him. As I said this happens all of the time. No big deal. Move on. And personally, I also think that paying $$$$ for rare back T206 commons is absolutely nuts. However, there are like 10,000 avid T206 collectors that vehemently disagree with me, so I think I am in the minuscule minority along w/ Glenn. People have their own opinions on the true worth of these cards. That's how it is. It's like on the CU board, people are raving on how 1977 PSA 9 Ozzie Smith cards are hitting record prices. I get a headache reading those threads. But to each, his own.

Anyway, Glenn, as John said, no worries. It's not "playing games." This is just normal negotiations. Nothing to sweat over.

Since most collectors & dealers have made their comments already, I just want to be brief here. I've been a dealer for over 30 years. The object here is to try to get a bargain on what you purchase, which is not easy. You make money by buying, not selling. Selling is easy if you buy right. Yes, a buyer can ask what they want for any card, just don't buy the card. Some dealers get involved with auction houses. By the time they pay the juice, they have given their profit to the auction house. When they try to resell the card, they asking the moon for the card & there stuck with the card. There only alternative is to send the card back to another auction house. If you think this is bad now, wait till after 5/1 when e-bay makes their changes. Most cards will be sold as BIN & the asking prices will be much higher than they are now.

Don't worry Gary, John knows exactly what the case was and his overall attitude about selling, don't let it fool you. I guess everything would have been all good had I been the dumb ass to offer to pay John $8-10K for his card right?

I guess I'll say everybody is thinking because I just don't give a $hit, basically what happened was I ask John if he wants to sell, he says "well I really don't have to sell"......"but if I do, IT'S NOT GONNA BE CHEAP".....translation turned out to be "sure if you're dumb enough to make me an offer for 2-3 times what I paid, I'll sell it".....well yeah! Of course! If everybody was a sucker and always paid 2-3 times for everything I owned, I'd be a sell everything I had too! Is it clear enough now?

Glenn, for what it's worth, I think 5500 might be kinda low for today's market on that particular card. I join the ranks of people that think it's crazy to collect tobacco ads and I don't collect T206... But after reading your exchange, I wonder why you'd offer 5500 for a Tris Speaker T206 if you weren't into the back "fad".

I kinda wish this topic would have stayed on track. We were discussing a newer kind of fraud in which sellers lie, using scan doctoring and false descriptions, to try to sucker someone into buying their card at their price. Yes, obviously any one can ask anything for what they own, buy they need to do it truthfully. People who get suckered this way are most likely newbies, who will most likely not remain in the hobby very long after they realize how scumy some sellers are. That is bad for a hobby that relies on newcomers for prices to remain stable as oldtimers sell off their collections.

yeah, its totally too bad that someone else made the money that you wanted to make. where's the justice!?!?