Real or Fake?! Mathewson & McGraw (If You Have a Heart Then Help PLEASE)
 

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for helping me through my stressful journey through this dark and shady hobby. I have posted my concerns about various cards and autographs regarding its authenticity. Quite frankly, I do not have any connections close to me to help. I live in the boondocks of Oklahoma and the nearest card shops are at least 2 hours away. Too far for me... So my only hope is you guys. I don't want to be annoying putting up my concerns about cards, but I just don't know who else to go to.

Anyways, I was wondering if anyone could help identify these 3 cards. What I mean is can anyone tell me if these are real or not????? I am most concerned about Christy Mathewson (White Cap). The other two I am not too concerned with, but my knowledge does not extend to tobacco cards.

Let me know if there are any clues to distinguish fakes from the real deal. I have read many forums, but I still would like your opinion.

Thank you everyone.

pic # 2
 

Mathewson (White Cap)

mathewson white cap
 

picture #2

The matty is good :)

Mathewson Portait
 

#1

Mathewson Portait
 

#2

Also good. Whats the story behind them?

Mathewson Portrait
 

#2

Both Matewson's are 100% unequivocally genuine.

Mcgraw
 

#3

McGraw
 

#3

Triple good

I purchased them from a 65 year old lady who had them stashed away in a barn along with two sets (1954 bowman & 1959 Topps) Bought them all.

The T206's are fine

How can you tell they are all legit??? I thought the printing was off on the Mathewson. It just looks odd to me. I have never seen the yellow border on the right side of his arm.. Any comment on that?

How can you tell with such certainty?

T206 s had all kinds of printing issues that caused such things. How I can tell is thirty years of seeing genuine T206's. Is woukd be easier to explain if you posted a fake one.

Haha well I appreciate the input. I wasn't trying to disprove your judgement or anything, but I was trying to find some clues to figuring out its authenticity. I only buy cards from the 50s and 60, so this is the first time I have ventured into the new world of tobacco cards. Thanks you though for your reply.

A fisherman, perhaps?

If you need 1 more opinion, I fully agree all 3 are just fine! What kind of condition were the 50's sets in?

Perhaps. The bait looks pretty decent though.

Colby,

No disrespect intended, but WHY would you post pictures, ask authenticity, then question someone when they tell you it's real?? :confused:

Greg

It seems to me the OP is just trying to educate themselves. So they want to know what tell-tell signs that would indicate these to be real or conversely how would they be able to tell if a card is a fake.

We've provided such information many times on this forum. If I had the inclination, I'd do some searches and provide a link;however....

...can't the OP do that?

I just spoke with Colby on the phone. He is just a bit overwhelmed with our s/w but is a super nice guy. He really is. He collects mostly 50s stuff and got these from a house that was almost like a barn. He just told me the people had a cow in their living room. Now that's hard to beat!!

Was the cow real?:p

I would like to see pictures.

Yeah, I wish he would post a picture of the cow in the living room. :eek:

It sounds like sitcom material.

Yup! Cards look good........Now bring on the cow!! I too would like to see a picture.

If someone would post a picture of a reprint and a genuine one, it would be much easier to point out the differences. An easy difference is that the ink on reprints are usually black. In genuine ones they are brown. Also, the name and team on both are in differnet script. The genuines also have a distinct border around the picture border which separates them from the white border. Also, the colors are much more vibrant on a real one. Not to mention, the dot patterns under a magnifying glass or loupe. It's relatively easy once you see them side by side. I hope that helps!

Nice cards! Look good to me!

Cards look real. Many of the people who are commenting are doing so on the basis of having handled hundreds, or in many cases thousands of T206s, and have seen what the fakes look like. Yours are real.
JimB

I don't get it - it is 2013. 'Google' is something that everyone really needs to get familiar with - that and ebay searches.

It's really simple: 't206 mathewson reprint' and 't206 mathewson'.

Disagree totally. The guy wanted an opinion/advice/help. Where better to go than here? If I have a question, I'm coming here first, no using Google...

While I don't have any issue with the post in general...I kinda agree with Scott! Google it...use the archives...the info is all there for 99% of anyones' questions...you just have to put forth a little eancy...weensy bit of effort!!!

Society has become sooooooo lazy and accustomed to instant gratification...in general!!!!!

Seriously? You come here to ask ALL questions and never use Google?

You really should try Google - it will save you a lot of time with the simpler stuff. Also, while the detail you posted is good, if you do not 'know' T206's, the ONLY way to learn is to buy cheap beaters and study them.

I could create a reprint in about 30 minutes that fits all of your criteria for being 'real', except of course, EVEN the part about the loupe.

Colby, There are some collectors who sometimes get very excited about the stamp (and writing) on the back of a card, such as your portrait. Probably sounds nuts to you if you're just getting into this, but true. No wonder this is all seems overwheming.

Answers to the questions.
 

Hello everyone who has commented,

First, I do not have any intentions to try waste anyones time viewing this post. I have been collecting since I was a kid. My baseball cards and memorabilia was funded by my grandpa. When he died in 2004 I stopped collecting cards, because being 13 years old made it a little hard to afford it. It sucked taking 8 and a half years off from collecting but I had no choice with no money.

Now I have a job, I can finally collect again! I am still in college at Oklahoma State University and I have been lucky enough to meet some pretty amazing people that have cards. Over the last few months I have bought multiple lots of cards from people that are on the verge of kicking the bucket. Needless to say I have bought hundreds of cards from the 50s and 60s. These cards just happen to be the only cards I am interested and comfortable in collecting.

Yesterday, I bought two sets (1959 Topps & 1954 Bowman) and t206 cards from an old woman. Her father and grandfather collected cards. They died 5 years ago, abandoning their lifetime worth of colectibles. The house/barn has been vacant since the father died. It was on a large plot of land just open to the environmental forces. When we arrived a cow was literally in the living room... From there you guys know what I found.

The reason I post such threads about authenticity, because when I was young and fueled by funds from my grandpa I got scammed. I bought a Mickey Mantle autograph baseball for my grandpa's birthday. He died 3 months later of cancer. About 6 motnhs later I went to get it authenticated by PSA. Needless to say, it came back fake and broke my heart.

Since then, I have always been so skeptible of everything that I buy. I know there is a ocean of information to be had about t206 cards. Quite frankly it is an overwhelming nightmare. I don't know where to start. The best option to come to mind was ask collectors like you who have been buying cards like this for longer than I have lived. I asked you guys the question of its authenticity, because I just don't know. I thought it was too good to be true. I am asking why it is real, because I just want to know what to look for. I really didn't know why I would be questioned for wondering why something is real? I am merely just trying to learn from people who actually know what their talking about and care enough to help me.

Thank you,

Colby

Just out of curiosity, how much did you pay for the T206s. It sounds like you should have gotten a good deal. :)

Not here to argue at all. If you re-read my post, I was giving him a starting point on the very very basics of a T206 card (ie borders, dot patterns, brown ink, deep rich colors, etc). It was not a complete and end-all doctrine on how to spot a reprint. Many people here should be honored that people come to them for advice, whether its cards, autographs, etc. I have definitely used Google, yes. The poor guy was simply coming here for advice, and although I'm not an expert, I'll always be more than happy to help out in any way that I can. He simply questioned how we knew because (hopefully) he wanted to become better educated. I'm fairly young and only started collecting the T206s within the last couple years so I know how intimidating it can be at first.

Your T206s are definitely real. Nice pickups.

To all the people wondering why I didn't use Google.

First, I did use Google. I bought the cards yesterday and read for hours. I compared hundreds of images. What I don't understand why all you find it so surprising I asked a question about authenticity.

Forgive me I did not have a REAL t206 in the back of the closet. I want to go buy one sometime this week when I have time. The thing is the nearest card shop is 2 hours away.

Yes society and the younger generation is part of an instant gratification era, but do not group me in such group. I am a financial analysts. I find information for a living. What Google advised me to do was too basic and the tools I needed (black light & REAL t206 card) I did not have... The next best thing Google advised me to do was ask collectors who have been handling cards like these for decades.

If you have a problem with me posting this thread then contact Google and tell them to organize their hundreds of pages information about t206. Perhaps you can help them go through each one and find out which site is legitimate. From there you should help them rank it from best to worst. The thing is Google's key word recognition is how google ranks the sites. This does not mean they are the "best" site for what you are looking for. Hence, why I am here asking collector's that have knowledge about these cards that far surpass mine.

Lastly, no one forced you to read this thread. Nor did I ask you to critic me on my methods of finding knowledge about t206 cards...

Thank you,

Colby Tan

Welcome Colby...unfortunately I DID have to read this thread...I have to read almost all of them...I know...it's a problem...but I AM aware!!!!:D

Frustration
 

I do not want to get heated about anything said here. I simple just wanted to get opinions from you older fellows. I'm 22 and just would like to learn from some of the best old guys in the business. Best way to learn is from experience. I went to Net54Baseball because I respect the unmatched knowledge about the hobby. I trust my judgement on cards, but I trust the collectors/dealers on here much more. All because of one thing, EXPERIENCE.

It just makes me kind of angry people think I am some lazy person who just doesn't want to do research and make someone else do it. I really don't know why it has gotten to me this much, but for everyone who is just messing with me to give me a hard time I say, "Touché'".

Colby, you're always welcome on this board, but you have to get used to some occasional questioning or critisism. Don't take it so personally. We aren't trying to be mean. :)

Brendan, I read your post thoroughly the first time, and it started with "I disagree completely" - that is a phrase that frequently precedes an argument; however, all I did was respond to your statement.

I don't see anything wrong with my response, other than it is in disagreement with what you think. That happens frequently on discussion boards. Repeating ourselves doesn't really do much good in such instances.

colby...I hope you don't/didn't take my comments personally. you have to understand our perspectives. some of us have been frequenting this board for years and years...collecting vintage for decades...and there are routinely people coming on here looking to capitalize on the knowledge and experience of the members here. It took me decades to amass the knowledge re. vintage cards I have...these days it is much quicker and easier to gain knowledge with the WWW...and forums such as these...but many newbies aren't interested in putting in any time!

TO make a long story short...you seem like a good guy...but many arent...and noone likes to be taken advantage of!

Colby - it's a discussion board. If you don't like it, go somewhere where you know that everyone will respond exactly as you would like them to.

But in keeping with the spirit of your post, and your demand - I ONLY read the first sentence and last sentence. That was enough to tell me that the stuff in-between was probably just bitching.

Peter, Colby's a 'financial analysts'. He asks questions and expects quick, accurate answers, and no backtalk. He must have ground his teeth to the nubs having to deal with people living in a barn with a cow.

Scott...is he 1 or 2 financial analysts?

Hi Colby,

Nice cards..

You did the right thing and actually the smartest thing by coming here and asking. Unfortunately I have seen this happen many times over the years (you are not the first) where someone new comes on board and then gets slammed. Not sure why (I have several theories) but is does happen. This board has wasted time and posting (from regular members) on more stupid / absurd postings than what you have brought to the game.

Fairly crazy as it is often spoke about "new collectors" / "young folks" and will they be around when were gone. You are exactly what we are looking for in the hobby.

Another aspect of what I like about your post is that we now know of three (new to the hobby) cards! And there has been some huge FINDS that came out (ON THIS BOARD) by people doing exactly what you did - and if they would have just went the GOOGLE route we may never have seen the cards!

Just relax for a little bit and everyone will warm-up to ya,

Shawn England

Don't worry bout it Colby, for me the best resource on anything pre-war is this forum's archives. Click the search tab at the top, put something in, and you open a world of information. I spend many hours, days even, just reading old threads and trying to gain knowledge. I guarantee there are countless threads there hashing out the differences in reprints vs. real, etc. Nothing wrong with asking the questions you have, and I'm sure you are a nice guy (Leon said so), you just came off a little over the top with your Jackie Robinson thread titles and the title of this one; ie "if you have a heart" "for the love of God help me"

I don't know, but this thread is ridiculous. I made a reasonable suggestion and got raked over the coals. The interesting thing about this is that I went through this same process many years ago, so I actually know how to tell T206 fakes from real ones :)

I learned from that process that you don't just post a picture of a HOF'er from a set you know nothing about, and ask if it is real, unless that's the end of it for you. If that's the case, Colby got his answer very early on, so he should be off posting them for sale in the BST sub-forum, asking us for offers.

But if he REALLY wanted to know how to tell the difference, I provided that info as well. And he's still not happy.

Me either, Colby. Me either. But this is a fun board and there are plenty of other threads that won't cause me any additional angst today. It's possible I'll see you and Sean in one of those, but not in this one. Later.

The New Guy
 

Yes I respect all of you that spent years gaining the knowledge you have now. I don't blame you for keeping your secrets from me and the young collectors that will carry on this hobby. But as time goes on and the closer you old guys come to the end, hopefully you will finally unveal your treasured secrets to the world!!:;)

Sorry for getting a bit dramatic but I couldn't sleep last night. I just couldn't figure out if these cards were real or not... It was killing me inside. Honestly, you guys were my last hope to finally getting my mind to rest. The bastards who keep bantering me I get it (lol). It's quite funny to me now, because I am now looking at it as if I were in your shoes. Sure maybe some of you are actually genuine bastards, but I can see why you would be one to me. I don't trust anyone as well and I respect the ones who question my questions/concerns.

Thanks though everyone for the comments. It has made me pretty happy that I finally know that they are real. Once, again thanks for the help

Sure it's easier for todays newbies to www any info they want, but I'd trade that experience any day for the advantage of being able to buy cards in the 70s-80s market.

In Tan's defense (although he needs to learn how to respect his elders) I've never asked google if my cards are real.

Tan, I agree with Scott, study some real cards. You can just study the ones you have, they are real. Note the difference between the front and back surface. I haven't seen a fake that properly replicates the clay texture on the front. Look closely at the the white borders, look at where they meet the edge. Look at the bottom left corner of your McGraw. You will see where some of the clay surface has chipped away, hopefully that will help you identify what the surface is made of.

You really should have gotten a photo of the cow. T206 are a dime-a-dozen,,, never seen a house cow before.

-Matt

That's easy to say today...that you'd rather pay 70's-80's prices today!!!!! Ever heard of inflation?!?! The thought of spending $7...or $25 on a card in the 70's for me...was not an option!!!!!!

If cards rose with inflation the 25$ card should cost around 150-200.

Colby is a nice guy folks. He is a young collector and I welcome him with open arms. Not one person in this thread meant any harm, none. Colby understands we are skeptical. It is our nature. I think we need to get Colby out of the 50s stuff and into T206s. And to that I say....BRING on the COW!! It's all good.....and it's just cards.......

ok Matt...you got me!!!! I should have said appreciation...in addition to inflation!!!!:D

Colby,

I'm pretty young myself, 26. I bought some cards back in college and just recently got back into t206. When I did I joined this board because my knowledge was very limited. It has been a lot if fun so far.

The 65 YO lady in the barn/house probably thought ("I'm gonna keep these cards till the cow comes home!").

I wanna see the bovine pics!:D

I am just messing with you the old guys who had at first gotten me heated. I respect the older collectors more than anything. That's why I am on this website posting threads and also reading them. Most or almost all of my baseball stories have been either from books or from dealers/collectors I have met through the years. Unfortunately, it seems rare to find many collectors my age so obviously most of my baseball card friends are considerably older than I. Obviously, its hard to really show any emotion through text, but I respect the hell out of the older collectors. Everything I am saying is just out of good fun. I mean you old guys got to live and see my favorite players of all-time.

It is amazing reading about how great Mickey Mantle was, but its even better listening to someone talk about watching "the Mick" play in person. Just listening to how it affected their childhood and everything that baseball was back then. I love baseball and history. That's the reason I collect baseball cards.

ok i'll do it!

the others.
 

here are the other pictures of the t206 "Cow" find

others #2
 

pictures

others #3
 

pictures

Show us the backs! :)

Sorry for the poor photos but I was in a rush this morning and did my best. I can take photos of the backs when I get home.

I bet sweet caps for the 205's

How did you make the connection with the lady wanting to part with these?

"The Great Stillwater Oklahoma Cow Pie Find!"

I helped out the struggling local card shop in town and her son happened to walk in asking if the owner would be interested in buying cards. He couldn't afford them so I offered to buy them.

Cards
 

Apparently the sets were on craigslist and the t206 cards were later discovered in the abandon house/barn.

Wait a minute... Real cards were on Craigslist????:D

A couple of my best "finds" were on craigslist! Go figgur.

The sets were. Super overpriced though. The t206 cards were still hidden away.

I'm enjoying these images haha perhaps I'll get them graded with that quote on the holder.

Must be some real interesting cards for this thread to get this much attention! Or some real bored individuals :p

Give the guy a break! He comes to the experts here looking for help and some of you react like an old man chasing those pesky kids off your lawn.

The cards all look good. If you have a doubt, send them to SGC for review and encapsulation. They've still got a $5 T card special going.