Stolen Card on Ebay
 

I thought I should let everyone know. Ebay seller kevino35 is selling a stolen card. I won a Dietsche Ty Cobb post card in the last (SCL) Sports Card Link auction. I was notified by their shipping department that they had accidentally shipped this card to another customer on accident and that they were doing all they could to recover the card for me. I figured there was an outside chance whomever got the Cobb from SCL might list it on Ebay, and sure enough it popped up on Ebay this morning. Item number 370753274525. I have tried to notify SCL but they are closed for the weekend. I thought I should let everyone know to steer clear of Ebay seller kevino35.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370753274525...525%26_rdc%3D1

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Chris Buckler

Did you contact the eBay seller?

Hi Chris,

Sorry you're going through this. I'd contact the eBay seller and tell him you're aware of what he is doing. And I'd also contact SCL on Monday, per your plan. This seller must be a maroon if he thinks he can get away with selling a stolen card.

Good luck,
Mike

I had a bad experience on ebay with this seller. He tends to overstate the condition of his cards.

Edited: Not necessary

Not sure how Moonlight fits in this thread, but good luck getting your card back, Chris.

Best,

Andy

I'm sorry-I was reading your post and I was going to start a post but didn't leave yours-how do i delete?

Hey Guys - Yes I contacted the seller and have yet to get a response. I also contacted Ebay and they said they will look into it. I will contact SCL on Monday.

Good to hear from you Mike, I hope all is well. Its going to be a tough year to be a Phillies fan, haha.. Go Reds!

Hopefully someone can shed some moonlight on this situation. This seller has danced with the devil in the pale moonlight, hopefully you get your card back, it's a beauty!

Chris, I'm sorry and I hope you get your card back-I'm an idiot and I have no idea how to delete my message-I was going to start a different thread on Field Of Dreams after I finished reading your post-agian I am sorry and I hope you get either your card or this crook!
Joe

I did a soft delete. I have done the same thing before, forget what thread I am in and post accidentally. I think only I can delete posts.....unfortunately ;) I am almost always on the board so can usually help.

Thank you Leon!

u can "move" the posts as well, to a different thread, or better yet to its own thread and give it its own , title. Each post will have a box to the right, fill in the box, scroll toward bottom the the current thread, there should be a drop down menu. U can choose, to merge, move, copy, deleat, etc.

How is that a stolen card? It was shipped to him by mistake, he is under no obligation to ship it back to SCL and it is a mistake by SCL, not the person it was shipped to. If anyone was to take legal action, it would be SCL, not you.

Wow
 

So Flavius, an auction house ships you a $400 card by mistake and you keep it and try to sell it? All I can say is "wow".

Wow

I can't speak to the legal ramifications of attempting to sell a card that was accidently mailed to you, but to do so is certainly unethical and someone with that type of judgement has no place in this hobby.

agreed.

Seriously??? It may not have been "technically" stolen but don't you think that the person that recieved this card by accident would have the obligation to notify the sender of the mistake? I'm sure the sender would have gladly paid for the return shipping cost.

"No obligation" - yeah for a real phuc head there would be no "obligation" to do so.

This is a sad commentary on our society.... we're just evolving into a bunch of total a-holes.... somehow, I'd have to believe that most of the people on this board would have done the right thing and returned it.

I wish I knew how to run a poll here. My question would be:

If you were shipped something by mistake, would you:

a) return it
b) keep it
c) sell it on ebay

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Chris bought the card and it was mistakenly sent to someone else who didn't buy it. I would think they have an obligation to return it. I'm not a lawyer, so I may be wrong in my thinking. At the very least a moral obligation.

I do believe that if it was addressed to Chris, but with a wrong address it would be illegal to open and keep. If it was addressed to the person that actually received the card

edit: while trying to edit this post, I mistakenly deleted a paragraph about going to a bank or atm to make a withdrawal and noticed that the bank accidentally deposited money in your account that wasn't yours. You then withdrawal that extra money. I've heard this happen before and although it wasn't the person's fault that that money was in his account, he still had to return it back to the bank.

r/
Frank

While I agree with you regarding the ethics, I think someone like that could find quite a home in this hobby, unfortunately.

Horrible judgement! Especially considering he has 99.9% positive feedback on Ebay with over 11,000 transactions- I mean to ruin his reputation over a card that will sell for under 1k..mind boggling

Do we know that the seller is ACTUALY the accidental recipient? Or is he guilty of nothing more than buying a card from someone without knowing it was "stolen"?:eek:

That was on my mind too..however, if you take a close look at the card- you can see 'LEWIS" written and erased between his legs when you zoom in. He has it marked as 'excellent' and doesnt disclose this so that kind of takes away some of his credibility in my eyes.

I can say, that recently a board member emailed me with some t205s he wanted to sell, he said he had no clue what they were worth. I guess i could of lied to him, but i didnt. Told him what they were worth and that I couldnt afford them.

I think finding a bag of cash, or getting extra money from a big bank isnt the same as if you saw a regular person drop $100.00 on the ground and give it back. Im not going to give money back to chase bank, but if a guy drops cash on the ground i would. I know chase has no issue with cash but a working guy who is busting his back to put food on the table for his kids and pay his mortgage, thats just different IMO

He sure as heck does at times

Good point Mike. I know Kevin and I just don't think he would do something like that. However, I could be wrong here.

I see no difference here King, either way you are not entitled to keep it IMO.

It is of course completely unethical, and it's unfortunate that he is selling it off. However, I just don't think "stolen" is the right way to word it. It was misplaced, and SCL will be compensating you for it. You can probably have them win the ebay auction and ship it back to you.

There is a chance the seller doesn't even know it was supposed to go to someone else, but my main point is that this is much more SCL's fault than it is the person it was accidently shipped to.

Sorry if I turned some heads...

I think that after a few messages between you and the seller, this will be cut and dry. That 'Lewis' which is written and erased under Cobb's legs is pretty hard to dispute. Just go to the page where you originally bought this card, show that the the signature is exactly the same and its going to be hard to dispute...

Yes, this is extremely possible.

If you couldn't tell this is sarcasm.

It might not be "stolen" but it is really, really sleazy to try and profit from an AH mistake like that. Golden Rule and all...

Fault? I'm going to guess it was an honest mistake on the part of the shipper.

Perhaps your initial post was taken out of context but the part that indicated there was no obligation to return the card probably hit people the wrong way.

While it would be ideal that the person who received the card returned it, you should expect people to be greedy and so to speak "steal" things that are sent to them in the mail for free. He is definitely under no legal obligation to return the card for now...

I would not worry chris, you will most definitely be compensated decently for this incident.

Keep diggin' Flav. You're halfway to China about now on this one.

Mistake, screw-up, shipping error, whatever you want to call it does not change the nature of the behavior of the ebay seller. It isn't nice, it isn't ethical, and it certainly isn't laudable, admirable or praiseworthy.

I don't "expect" people to keep things sent to them by mistake, especially when they know who sent it and how to return it. I expect them to be honest, speak up, and not seek to screw someone else just because they can. From time to time I get something by mistake from an ebay seller or an auctioneer. I don't just take it and run. I contact the sender and arrange to return it. And I would hope that if I ever make a similar mistake the recipient will have the class and the courtesy to cut me a break. I may be naive but I am pleasantly surprised all the time in this Hobby by the honest and generous behaviors of fellow collectors and sellers and I hope it stays that way. When greedy, sleazy behavior is the expectation, it isn't fun anymore and I'm outta here.

the ebay seller knows damn well that this is not their card ... the fact that they would then attempt to sell it is absolutely pathetic

Derek Hogue

Make sure you are the high bidder in his auction and take it from there.

I am almost certain that it is a federal offense to open a package sent thru the USPS if you are not the addressee even if you are a resident at the address specified. I do not know the rules if it is delivered via FedEx or UPS. Assuming that to be accurate I would think attempting to sell something not addressed to you would be an additional offense.

My assumption was that it was addressed to him but included in the package by mistake.
The seller has been discussed on the board at length previously.

Something like this would have had to have been signed for. If you signed for a package addressed to someone else and opened it and then sold the contents online you have committed a crime. Of course, the package could have been addressed to the seller since it was a shipping mistake.

You are assuming that the seller is the guy that got the card in the mail. I ask again, do we know that he didn't buy it from someone else that got it in the mail?:confused:

Does every seller know the provenance of every card they sell? The card could been sold by the scumbag TO Kevin:eek:

It is not only possible but probable that Kevin who has almost 12000 feedbacks and as been a seller for a good while is an unwitting victim of someone selling or consigning him a card that was stolen. Afterall, a seller has to get inventory from somewhere. To jump to the conclusion that he is the thief is one step shy of villagers storming the castle with pitchforks or frontier justice by a lynch mob. I have not heard the O/P say that Kevin is the guy that the card was sent to, just that he is the seller selling it.:o

I would like to add that I do not know this seller and to my recollection, have never bought anything from him.

Unfortunately Flavius is likely correct regarding the law. In most states, there is no legal obligation to return or pay for items sent to you that you did not order. This is to prevent companies from sending unsolicited items and then demanding payment for them. Of course, it also means that people who are sent items legitimately by mistake generally have no obligation to return or pay for them.

Of course, even if there's no legal liability there could be some civil liability. Who knows what would happen if this were sent to small-claims court...

Seller has other "Lewis" cards for auction
 

Kevin...DId your Cobb come with additional cards? This seller has several 1907 DIETCHE cards with Lewis erased on the front.

Given that the seller has 3 other Dietsche cards(assumedly won in the same auction, and possibly the reason for the mistaken shipping), I think it's more probable that he is the person that it was mistakenly sent to. It's possible that Kevin may only be a consignor..

If you were mistakenly sent this card, and were shady enough to flip it, I'd think you wouldn't want "your" name attached to it, and woulf rather put that on someone else..

I will agree that "Stolen" is a pretty harsh description for the situation though. Unethical, Slimy, Sketchy, Assholish, yes. Stolen, no..

What the %%%% :eek::(

Wow.......what happened to your set of ethics?

If the card was shipped to me I would immediately return it free of charge, but if you are depending on the ethics of the general public to correct a mistake made by a company, then you won't be very happy with the outcome you get a large majority of the time. People are greedy, and if they choose to be a good samaritan and return the card then you thank them greatly, but just in life overall, there are a lot of rude people. 400+ dollars is a lot of money when it comes to motivating people to be mean....

Bryan

Kevin, is that you???:D

A buddy told me that 'Theft of lost property' exists in some, possibly all, states, and further stated that it could/would apply here.

...to whomever received the card knowing it wasn't his or her card. You can't keep a rightful owner from his or her property. Most criminal laws are based primarily on common sense. It is shady for a reason.

Doesn't exist in Florida.

Exactly. A few of the posters here have already convicted the seller as the thief.:eek:

To put the ethics discussion aside for just one post- is there a link to the original auction?

My buddy's not familiar with Florida statutes, but he said it'll be covered in the chapter containing theft and related offenses.

What if Chris didn't see the listing? Answer: he wouldn't get it back and somebody (the receiver of the property) would profit.

Fair enough.

Still, Buckler said he notified the ebay seller, so I am curious to see what they have to say when they do answer him.

In the event he is the one who accidentally got the card in the mail, and is now trying to sell it, that is absolutely pathetic.

I hope that is not the case, and that it played out as you said.

Either way, Buckler got screwed and deserves some justice.

Derek Hogue

Um, if someone sent you something by mistake and you sold it you'd be converting someone else's property to your own. Similarly, if a bank mistakenly puts $1 million in your bank account and you withdraw it and keep it, you're committing a crime. This isn't an opinion, this is a fact.

The difference there though is the card shipped to this person was obviously in his name and address, otherwise it wouldn't of ended up at his doorstep. I'm assuming he was a customer of the auction house and they somehow switched up who won what auction.

So this means the auction house intended for him to receive the card, and he is fully entitled to keep it. You can't ship something to someone then say it is stolen property when the act of shipping it is giving the item to them...

If a bank puts additional money in your account then that is because of a database error that was not consented to. This issue would be resolved pretty fast and if you withdrew the money before it was fixed, you would go into debt and owe the bank money.

The point here is that this is a mistake on the auction house's end and the receiver of the card is a jerk, but not a completely illegal criminal in the most basic definition. Who knows what could happen if he was taken to court though..

+1

I just noticed whit all of my posts, I still neglected to say how sorry I am for your troubles, Chris. I hope you get some justice.

Kevin selling the Cobb aside, wouldn't the Auction House be on the hook for the cash value, at least? I know that doesn't get Ty into your collection but it beats a poke in the eye.

Going by that same logic, if my voter registration gets sent to the wrong address they can vote in my place for the next election.

I think it applies in cases of mis-delivery. I'm not sure if the packing and shipping process also counts as delivery though. But I'd be inclined to think that with SCL being the auction house, that they never factor into the "ownership", only the "possession" of the item. And I think that would make them part of the delivery process involved in the card changing "ownership".

I'm no attorney though, just a lowly Ironworker...

Kevin
 

Kevin is out of the country until Feb 18th so I'm guessing he won't respond for a while.

No because your name would still be on the registration. This is an error on UPS's (or whatever shipping company) part and not whoever issues the registrations.

In this case, the auction intended for say "bob" to receive the card because they filled out the mailing envelope with bob's information and gave consent to give him the item, shown by the fact presumably the mail came in his name and address. For bob, this item was a free gift and nothing more.

The auction house made an internal mistake, and they cannot force whoever they sent to the card to, to go run to the post office and ship it back.

Bob didn't initiate this "crime", the auction house did. Are you going to take him to jail because he got a package in the mail and decided to sell the contents? I'm sure SCL has contacted him, but again, he did nothing legally wrong. If bob initiated this "crime" by hacking into SCL's network, then (aside from hacking) that would be a crime because his intention was to defraud someone else. This is an error on the auction house's part.

I'm not a lawyer or anything but I have had similar experiences in the past and I think the line between ethics and legalities is a very thin one, so I could be wrong I suppose. This is just my opinion.

Bryan

flavius. Check the laws on "unjust enrichment"...

Again, I'm not sure who's out on this. I think it's the auction house. Because I believe they would be responsible for both reimbursing the buyer, and the seller for the money's lost by their mistake. If the buyer doesn't get refunded, then I believe he would be the rightful claimant in a case. If the buyer get reimbursed, but the seller doesn't get paid, then I believe he would be the claimant in a case. And if SCL both pays out the seller, and re-imburses the buyer, then they would be the ones ultimately out the money, and they would become the claimant...

I do not know if the seller received the card from SCL or if they purchased the card from the receiver of the shipment. Either way we will likely know on Monday if SCL divulges who they believe to be the recipient. However I do know SCL has reached out to the possible recipient and have gotten no response/answer. All I know is that I won a card at auction and the card was accidently sent to the wrong winner and they are not responding to SCL. I never stated anything about legal action. I just wanted to let everyone know that the card I won is now for sale by a seller who did not win or pay for this card. The seller is likely the receiver of a shipping mix-up by SCL. I have spoke to SCL and they have been nothing but very professional and apologetic. I know they are doing everything they can to recover the card for me. This has gone much further than I ever expected. After reading all your posts I do not know if there is anything technically illegal or not. SCL has told me they will offer me a refund if they cannot locate the card for me. I believe the seller is likely the recipient of the card from SCL as they have not responded to my messages plus they have grossly exaggerated the cards condition in their description.

Chris Buckler

The buyer won and paid for the card. If paid through PayPal there would be a email. If paid through check there would be a paper trail. The invoice most likely stated the correct buyers name, who it was sent to is irrelevant.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the only form of mail recognized by a court of law is registerd mail.

Sir or ma'am,

Do you reckon the receiver of the card knew if he or she should have received the card? You're articulating reasons to do the wrong thing here.

When is someone going to require Flavius to post his full name like the rest of us? :confused:

Steve Murray

We need a new card for Monopoly:

"Auction House Error in your Favor"
"Do Not Return, feel free to Sell or Consign"

That Field of Dreams thread Moonlight Graham said he was working on is going to be good! I love that movie! Well, I like it...a little. Couldn't find it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzhpB1X-6ok

Sincerely, Clayton

Law may not be uniform but there is certainly a crime of theft of property delivered by mistake.

Clearly you're not a criminal lawyer nor did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Jeff everyone is entitled to an opinion about how the states define crimes.

True, true, how could I forget. What would statutory crimes be without personal interpretation and unilateral determination?

I know that this has nothing to do with the issue but has anyone noticed that the description of the card is talking about Hughie Jennings and not Ty Cobb?

Don't confuse people who have opinions with facts.

If you click on his name it is in his signature there. He and I pm'd about it a few times today. It's not perfect but I am fine with that.