1907-1910 Weiser Wonder - Walter Johnson PC, new to the hobby
 

Thought I would resurrect an old debate on this postcard. It came from outside of the hobby and was in the family of the original owner until now. In my bit of research I don't see where anyone mentioned this/these postcards have a "Copyright '07" on the front of them, right below his right knee and to the left a tiny bit? Obviously this can't be later than 1910 due to the postmark on it. Comments are hoped for... Btw, this thing is so neat it almost makes me want to start collecting postcards!!

Awesome! You DO collect postcards!

Awesome PC Leon. Don't know what type of info you are looking for but I believe Johnson played for the Weiser Kids (1906-July 1907), 84 consecutive scoreless innings pitched in 1907. He worked for the local telephone/telegraph company in Weiser, Idaho.

The subject of the PC is interesting, sounds as though these two are cattlemen, one looking for work in Wyoming. Weiser is the last town up river from Hells Canyon and was a popular Ferry point across the Weiser River, which combines with the Snake. Today, the town is known as the "Fiddling Capital of the World", and has some great sturgeon fishing.

Thanks Ty...here is another scan of the back. The info I am interested in hearing about is why, when the dating of this has been discussed before, no one has ever mentioned the copyright date of 1907 on the front? I am not saying it was produced then but it certainly merits some thought if folks are trying to date it. If it IS 1907 it would make it one of, if not the, first Walter Johnson card. All that being said I very well might have missed someone pinpointing the date of it. This particular postcard was sent to the person's grandfather from whom I acquired it, according to them...and I have no reason to believe otherwise.

http://luckeycards.com/spcunc1910sweiserjohnsonb2.jpg

I go there every year for the fiddle festival. Pretty much everyone in town has a garage sale that week. I've found some pretty cool stuff, but not this PC which I have seen before and wouldn't mind running into. Or anything vintage WJ would be fine. Either way, it's a great little town and worth the long drive from Seattle.

I don't know about the dating of it, but maybe the photo dates to 1907, but the PC was made in 1910.

Rob

How interesting. I had always thought this postcard was of later vintage, teens to perhaps even the 20s based on the relatively modern looking graphics. The copyright of 1907 is in the photo itself, though, the original of which was auctioned several years ago by a cousin of mine. It's possible the postcard could date from 1907, after his first partial season with Washington, but could also have been produced anytime between then and Nov 1910, according to this postmark. This could be his rookie card, which I guess is now considered to be the American Caramel card from 1908, although I could be mistaken about that. Great find, in any case. I had Walter's copy of this card at one time, from his scrapbooks.

Thanks Hank. Yes, I saw the original cabinet that had the "1907" in it. I don't know all there is to know about copyright dates but I haven't seen anything to make me think this postcard wasn't printed earlier than 1910. I believe that sometimes copyright dates are in fact used as dating of items. Again, not trying to necessarily feather my own nest but it is interesting no one, I saw, ever bring up the date on the card itself. That was the main thrust of the initial post, as well as to show a really cool postcard :).

http://luckeycards.com/spcunc1910sweiserjohnsondate.jpg

So the possible time frame is August, 1907 to November, 1910, with no evidence arguing in favor of any particular date within that period. Right?

Hi Hank
Not being patronizing here but you probably know more than anyone about Walter Johnson. I don't have any info to dispute that span of dates you mentioned. I don't know why a company would produce a card AFTER the player left a team, rather than when he played for it, but it could be solely for publicity/advertising. Without other contradictory evidence I think there is reason to believe it was printed in the 1907 time frame. And as you mentioned, and can well be seen by the postmark, it couldn't have been printed after 1910. Here is another article sent to me by a nice board member...One other thing that makes this postcard a bit more interesting is that it is actually postmarked from Weiser, going to Boise. There seems to be a lot of info pertaining to Walter and those cities.

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-...walter-johnson

.
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Hope this helps Leon, here's an article on the 1906-07 season in Weiser. Sounds as though the fans in Weiser did not really warm-up to the young man until his phenomenal 1907 season (last game for them July 21, 1907). No references to "Weiser Wonder". I agree it would not make sense to promote a young man who had just left your town. Sounds as though they tried to bribe him to stay, offering him a cigar store downtown.

http://cwcfamily.org/wj/ww2.htm

My only comment is . . . where is the quarter at?

Matt

Johnson was a wise man, but a Weiser youth.

It's pronounced "Weez-er", like the band. Just sayin' :)

I pronounce 'wise' 'weez', don't you?

Here is an interesting piece together of a couple old posts/quotes. Hopefully I'm interpreting these right as I don't collect postcards

1-The dividing line on Postcards started on March 1, 1907.

2-For a short time after that, postcards still had white space on front for writing purposes, basically printers using up what they had to save on money

3-If yours has the white space on front and the divide line, then it was probably made shortly after March 1st

The first two are facts, the third is an assumption based on those facts

Incorrect, just sayin

http://www.forvo.com/word/weiser/

300 miles to the east of Weiser, I've seen a number of geezers, both kinds.;)

Good points all. A copyright date is the date of creation of the image, not the date the object using the image was created. The copyright in this case is scratched into the negative of the image, which is why it is white on the field of the image. The PC is made using the image and other artwork. It had to be made around 1907 at the earliest because it would not have been a legal PC before that time, and obviously it was made before the post-date. Other than that, you cannot pin down any specifics from the item itself. You cannot simply assume that production ended when Johnson left the team; it may well have continued after they realized what a phenom he was.

That's my article. Here's a link to the full piece, with intro, etc.
http://cwcfamily.org/wj/ww0.htm

As for the point about not promoting Johnson after he left town, I don't believe they would have been promoting him UNTIL he had left town and begun making a name for himself in Washington, at which point he would have become the biggest thing to ever come out of there and worth promoting. There's no doubt in my mind that this postcard was issued after Johnson had "made good," as they used to call it, in the American League. Of course, he did that almost immediately.

Ja, I know how it's pronounced in German...

My family is all from Idaho and I dated a girl from Parma (just a few miles away from Weiser) for a number of years. Believe me, the town's pronounced "Weezer". At least by anyone living within a 200 mile radius of the area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weiser,_Idaho
"Locals pronounce the city's name as "Wee-zer."

I don't know Hank. He was some really big news in Weiser, as you well know, and I would think they might have wanted to capitalize on his stardom at any time after 1907..... And actually, and this might not be correct, but it's there, baseball-reference has him as being on Washington, at least a little bit, in 1907, 1908, 1909, (all of the years in question here). During those years on Washington he had a combined W-L of 32 and 48, so capitalizing on that record seems strange. To me it seems whomever put this out might have wanted to capitalize on his Weiser stardom and not his less than stellar play in Washington during that period. I certainly appreciate your ongoing participation in a fascinating discussion. Thank you so much.

Who knows, maybe another PC will pop up with an earlier postmark and this date can be put to rest. Until now I think many collectors were dating this postcard quite a bit later.

Leon, do you know how many known examples of this postcard there are? Do you own the one in the OP? Pretty cool piece, thanks for posting it up.

In my searches I have seen maybe 3-4 of these postcards. There are probably a few more than that known but I am not sure. Yes, I own the one in the original post. Thanks for the kind words. I do think it's a great looking postcard and with the Weiser postmark all the better.

Great postcard, Leon!

nice postcard, Leon. And great find. I agree with some of the others that it makes sense to promote the town you find the most famous person to come from the town and put him on a postcard. Then you sell that postcard with the Weiser Wonder on it.

I can tell you that there was a high school that was a rival to Grant Hill (of NBA Basketball fame) right near where I grew up. Everyone would talk about the school that Grant Hill was from. But that was after he made good in the NBA, not before.

Same thing with Jim Thorpe, PA being founded after he made it big.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe,_Pennsylvania

Happens a lot in sports when the player makes it big and the home town then claims them.

I'm sure many postcards are written well after the date that they were written but in my (limited) experience, I've seen the majority of postcards written around the date they were issued (within the year?) Very unscientific, I know, but that has been my experience.

There is no doubt this could be a 1910 postcard. It could also be a year or two earlier too. Until now it was thought to most likely be from the teens. Until anymore evidence is found it will be circa 1910, I think that nails it. :)

I do understand that even though Walter didn't have a great record his very first years in WA he was still a great pitcher at that time. His team, not so great.

I think that's very sound.

As to the point made by a poster about the white on the front of the postcard dating it to a certain era, that's just not the case. It just has to do with a certain aspect ratio image being used and not cropping it to fit on the postcard. You see it on this postcard as well which I date to around 1913-1914 (no earlier).

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/...WagnerRPPC.jpg

That would make sense if it was the town where Johnson was born and raised. Hometown boy makes good, etc. but he was from Olinda/Fullerton Union High School in California.

He only played in Weiser for two seasons. Supposition: it may have been produced to entice Johnson to stay in Weiser, Idaho in 1907.

Great article by Hankphenom on his years in Idaho, did not mean to post that and omit credit for the article, my apologies.

One more thing the PC's writer Walter Watkins mentions a town in Wyoming named Midway. Can't find anything about it outside Midway Basin in Yellowstone National Park. Does anyone have an ideas?

After doing some research I could definitely see the card being made in 1907. Johnson was signed to a professional contract and then made his Major League debut less than 2 weeks from the time he left Weiser's team. And he only delayed his debut so that he could finish the season with Weiser. Since Weiser wasn't even considered a professional team, it would have been a huge to-do that one of its players was on his way to the majors.

I can't believe no one else has noticed that this postcard was addressed to fellow Washington Senator Frank Howard.

Also former Rookie of the Year.

I do collect Postcards and would like to weigh in with an opinion here.

I completely agree with you on point 1. March 1, 1907 is the beginning of the Divided Back Era for Postcards. Before then, it was not permitted to place correspondence on the back of the card, just the address. And, as you noted, this date also marks the appearance of the dividing line.

That, coupled with the postmark would indicate that the card was released between these two dates:

March 1, 1907 and November 30, 1910

The other points you made do make sense to me; however, I don't think narrowing the date range down further is possible without information I have not yet seen.

Best Regards,

Eric

As to his nickname Weiser Wonder. It was used in the Iola Daily Register(Iola, Kansas) right after his first game and domineering victory with Washington in early August 1907. So he certainly had the nickname very early in his career as a carry over from his stint in Idaho.

Also, as late as 1925 he was still referred to by this nickname in newspaper game highlights.

There's almost no chance this postcard was made during his time at Weiser, in my opinion. He was never called "The Weiser Wonder" during that time, but WAS called that almost immediately thereafter in Washington and elsewhere around the American League. And despite his deceptive 5-9 record in 1907, he was considered in many quarters a "Wonder" from the very start of his career. He had the 4th-best ERA in the American League at 1.88 and finished 2nd behind Waddell in SO/IP. He finished every game he started except his first, and pitched two consecutive shutouts toward the end of the year. Five of his losses were by 1 run for a 49-102 team. Turn those into victories and he would have been 10-4, not a bad first two months in the big leagues. It's entirely possible for this postcard to have been produced sometime in the latter part of 1907, the town capitalizing on the nickname he had often been called beginning with his debut on August 2. Or it could have been made at any time in the years following, up to late 1910. Regardless, Leon has brought us significant new information about a "WONDERful" (sorry, couldn't resist) card.

Speaking of Weiser, here's the coolest non-baseball PC in my collection: The middle of this unfolds, beginning with the picture of the "New Union Station," into a 12-panel accordion of notable places in Weiser, including a 3-panel panorama of the town in which you might be able to spot part of the ballfield if you knew where to look. And what's the date of the postmark? June 17, 1907, a month before Johnson stepped into that station and off to his great adventure. The station was brand new in 1907, and had been completely restored shortly before my visit to Weiser in 1995. It was a real trip for me to stand on the platform of that station, looking east as Walter would have done, wondering what was in store for him. He had never been further east than Kansas, and now at 19 years old he's going to the nation's capital to play in the major leagues. The other side is postmarked July something, perhaps on its way to its destination of Washington, Penn., on the same train as Walter.

Photo used to make the postcard dates to 1907

Postcard itself is of a later date, almost certainly 1909+, no way these were made when he was at Weiser.

Rhys

Why do you say that though? Weiser was a nothing team in a nothing league with no star power at all. Now all of a sudden their best player is on his way to the Majors and making his debut 2 weeks after playing for them. Seems likely that they would have produced the card. It would be like if someone from my Little League team signed a contract and was on the mound 2 weeks later. I would think the town would rally behind them just for making it and not wait for them to be a star, no?

Rhys,

I am not disputing you; however, am wondering what leads you to believe this.

Please let me know.

Respectfully,

Eric

Hoping the following sheds a bit more light on this...
 

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=12520

Granted, I am fairly certain that PSA was incorrect in noting this issue as being from 1901; however, the two postcards look similar enough to me that it is reasonable to consider they may be the same issue. The image from the OP and the Goodwin auction both appear below.

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3bcfcd23.jpg

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7b7cee0a.jpg

Thoughts and feedback would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

Eric

So has your opinion changed on the Reccius Wagner?

Nice pickup and great postcard. Congrats

There are a lot of sets with cards printed of players who no longer play for the team or even the league. The Mayo set features retired players, for example. Along with Play Ball and that strip set that has Mathewson in it long after he'd retired. I realize these aren't postcards though. But it would be a lot to brag about if you had Walter first, especially if you're an amateur team.

He was a big deal in Weiser, but I live 30 miles from Weiser, it is not a big city by any means. Half the small cities in America had a "Weiser Wonder" type phenom around 1905-1907 (obviously not as good as Johnson but to their small towns at the time there were similar type players). If this postcard had been produced IN WEISER then you would see almost all of them with Idaho postmarks right? How many have ever been found with Idaho postmarks? Zero to my knowledge. SO this is a postcard that had National Distribution. Who would bother to make a postcard Nationally from a rookie who hadn't made it big yet? Nobody would unless it was issued locally in Idaho which there is no way it was given the circumstantial evidence. So who would make a Nationally distributed postcard of a ballplayer celebrating his humble roots? Someone who wanted to capitalize on that players superstardom. So it is a sure bet that this was made after Johnson attained his stardom and was attempting to show his humble roots with a 1907 photo that they had to issue with a copyright date on it of when it was taken.

To me this is a settled issue and I have done a lot of research into the subject as I have visited Weiser on many occasions and live in the area. There is simply no way this postcard was produced in the Weiser area or Idaho in general, its a 1909-1910 postcard at the earliest until someone finds one with an earlier postmark.

Rhys

Actually the latest it can be is 1910, not the earliest. Just going by the evidence we have and not conjecture. I think anytime between 1907 and 1910 is feasible until I see more evidence other than theory. I also think it could have been distributed from the Weiser area. This one shown was certainly mailed from there. Most people weighing in thought this was from the teens until now. When/if one is found with a 1908 postmark the argument will change again.

I suspect that we won't have to wait very long to see another example of this WaJo PC, hopefully one with a readable postmark, in a major auction. The recent Legendary Auction had a special grouping devoted to Kent Feddeman's fabulous Washington Senators collection, and it contained some great WaJo PCs, but not a "Weiser Wonder" PC. I believe the final installment of Feddeman's collection will be presented in Legendary's first 2013 auction, and I'll be surprised if it doesn't contain a "Weiser Wonder" PC, because Doug Allen told me that Legendary tried to split Feddeman's collection equally as to types of items between the two auction installments.
Val

My guess is that this postcard was produced and sold locally (Weiser, Boise, or somewhere else in Idaho) at some time between late 1907 and 1910. I don't see a national product touting him as the "Weiser Wonder." And I wouldn't hold out hope for an example from the Feddeman collection. He didn't pursue cards or postcards aggressively, just picking them up on occasion when the opportunity presented and the price was right. Much more of a memorabilia and photo guy.

I understand what you are saying Leon as the postcard had to manufactured before the date on the card, but absent business records from the company that made the card, we have to go by postmarks or dates next a postcard glued in a scrapbook or some circumstantial evidence.

So the only concrete evidence (speaking scientifically) we have to go on is that

The earliest it can ABSOLUETLY be dated would be the earliest postmark we have (right now 1910). This can obviously change with new specimens.


The latest it can absolutelyy be dated would be the latest postmark (1918 or something).



I would bet these were made between 1909/1910 and just kept being made as long as people bought them and eventually as the demand fell off, they stopped making them, probably around 1920.

Still, no way this is from his time in Weiser.

Rhys

Hank

I respectfully disagree. I dont think there is any way this was made in Idaho. I collect Idaho postcards and they almost all have Idaho postmarks, people bought them locally and mailed them from the area they bought them. These were tiny rural and mining areas and before mass transit there is not really any way someone buys a Walter Johnson postcard in Weiser, Idaho in 1907 and then somehow gets it to Chicago to use three years later. To my knowledge not a single one has a Wesier postmark or Fruitland or Payette or ANY of the other towns in the area. I dont even know off hand of a single one with an Idaho postmark at all (there could be though).

There are literally thousands of paostcards issued in the 1910's and 1920's that harken to the roots of famous people, especially politicians and celebrities like Lindberg etc. It would not be at all unusual to make a postcard of Walter Johnson touting his humble beginnings in Weiser to sell to the people around the World that were fascinated by star power.

I know you have been to Weiser, but to those that have not, you have to understand how rural and how isolated these little towns in Western, Idaho are and to get there in 1907 was no small feat and I can absolutely promise you that if these were made locally, they would have been mailed locally, and if they were mailed locally the vast majority would have Western Idaho or Eastern Oregon postmarks and they simply dont. The example posted here is the only one I know of with an Idaho postmark.

Just my opinion from the resident Weiser, Idaho area amatuer historian.

Rhys

Rhys- You did see this one with the Weiser postmark, correct?

The only two examples I'm aware of--Leon's and the one from Walter's scrapbooks, came from Weiser. There is another style of this postcard, by the way, sepia with cursive writing at the bottom, that I've seen auctioned recently, perhaps a couple of different examples. I wonder what the postmarks showed on those?

Love it!:)

Don't encourage me - along with a sharp wit sometimes comes a sharp tongue. Disentangling the two has been a life-long battle :)

I hear you Scott.

And based on this discussion, I will agree with Rhys, that athough the window is 1907-1910, it would almost certainly be closer to the back end of it, when Johnson had already gained some national prominence.

Johnson's national prominence actually dates from the start of his career, practically from his first game with Washington. Some of the early coverage in the national sporting publications is surprising, with many quotes like this one from Wild Bill Donovan following Johnson's debut against the Tigers on August 2, 1907: "If nothing happens to that fellow, he will be a greater pitcher in two years than Mathewson ever dared to be. Mark that prediction." And here's Addie Joss after Johnson's second big league game, a 7-2 win at Cleveland: "That fellow is another Cy Young. I never saw a kid with more than he displayed." Certainly by the time Johnson had thrown three shutouts in four days in his first full year of 1908, anybody following baseball at all would have known all about him. As for the town of Weiser and their local boosters, I believe it would have been more than enough for one of their own to have ascended directly to the major leagues, together with the fulsome praise showered upon him immediately thereupon, to have provided reason enough to create the postcard.

Hank,

The WaJo you pictured in your post appears to be from the White Border Era (1915 - 1930.) It was quite common during the earlier part of this range of dates for postcards to be released which were reprints of earlier Divided Back Era cards, easily distinguished by the white border around the image, and typically of inferior quality.

I would likely be able to dig up a bit more info regarding postmarks if I had an idea of what auction it was featured in. If you would please let me know, I would greatly appreciate it.

Best Regards,

Eric

Mr. Perry

Here's one

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=84539

Jake,

Many thanks.

At first blush, this makes perfect sense to me:

White Border Era Postcard (1915-1930)
Postmark of 1918

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/...ps429be37a.jpg

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/...psd548860e.jpg

Definitely a different card than the one Leon posted, which I firmly believe was issued between 1907-1910.

The one pictured here in my post (not my card...from the auction link provided by Jake) was issued between 1915-1918, in my humble opinion.

Best Regards,

Eric

Since the outer limits of your guesses are the dates of the postmarks I would say you have solved half the equation.

My understanding is that postcards began to be produced with white borders during the WW1 years in order to cut down on the consumption of ink.

Leon,

If I may be so bold, please allow me to disregard (for a moment) the white bordered postcard and focus solely on the one you originally posted. As it pertains to that example, I believe the outer limits of my guesses to both be reasonably solid dates.

The postmark of November 30, 1910 is clearly the latest date the card could be issued. Additionally, in my estimation, March 1, 1907 is the earliest it could have been issued. The U.S. Postal Service did not relax their regulations regarding the inclusion of correspondence on the back of a postcard until that date...nor were divided back postcards able to be used in the U.S. until then.

So, with the utmost respect for you and everyone here, I propose the following:

I believe that the Walter Johnson postcard you posted was issued between March 1, 1907 and November 30, 1910.

Should I happen to have erred somewhere in my line of thinking thus far, please let me know. I do believe that I have come to a reasonable conclusion; however, do welcome feedback on this.

Additionally, I plan to research the WaJo further, in an effort to narrow this range as much as possible. Along the way, I will be more than happy to share my findings with this board.

Sincerely and Respectfully,

Eric

I have nothing to add re Leons postcard other than it's awesome. Great pick up.

Yes, 1907 was the 'legal' date for divided postcards, but there are documented examples from 1906, so technically 1907 is not a start date.

Re the 'white bordered' postcard, that pc is a real photo postcard and has nothing to do with white bordered pc's, their history, or dating. There are many examples of real photo postcards with borders that pre-date the 'white border' postcard era.

It's not a real photo postcard, it's a printed one.

It is very blurry. Is it a photo of a photo?

Fantastic postcard Leon! And no you can NOT start collecting postcards! :D

I agree with Hank, I think this card was made in 1910 for distribution from Weiser...probably made in a larger city like Boise. Doubtful that a postcard could keep a guy around..this was made as a source of pride in their hometown boy who had made it big in the Bigs.

Excellent Postcard !!
 

Love that postcard Leon, thanks for posting that.

This has been a great read. The 1910 postmark shows it was made 1910 or prior. Now, I don't have much to add but I do have a postcard that has a copyright date of 1910 by one company in New York, and right across from that has a different publishing company name. The postal stamp on the back of the card is dated August 5th, 1911. It is baseball themed, but more of a novelty item. So, I'm wondering if the date of 1908 would make sense? Maybe one year after the copyright date? Just an uneducated guess.

Great thread and awesome postcard, regardless !! :)

Sincerely, Clayton

Here's a Net54 thread with a link to a photo of a third purple one owned by Dan McKee (of course). So that's at least three of the purple ones. And Mile High had a sepia example at one of the Reading shows some years back, although that could be the same one in the Legendary auction.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=78805

I don't remember my opinion on the Reccius, but unless I missed it, there was never a definitive date put onto the card. Without that it's hard to say. The dating of it is the key, obviously.

Thanks for the kind words on the pick up. Question for those more knowledgeable than myself. Where do you think this would end up price-wise, in a public auction?

It's a great postcard regardless on the production date. I'd put the over/under at $4k at auction.

5 K, more or less. Would be #1 on the Weiser Wonder registry. Wait a minute: possible rookie card, make that 5-10 K.

OK, please forgive me...I am now officially fascinated by this card.
 

For starters, I agree completely with those who think this is a great card. From what I have been able to determine thus far, it is most likely an extremely scarce issue. I have seen mention of no more than three known examples here, and would not dispute that number at this point in time.

I also thank those who weighed in with comments regarding my opinions on it (along with its newer, white-bordered counterpart) and hope that I am making a positive contribution to this conversation.

I fully understand that pinpointing exactly when it was issued has the potential to be quite important and, as a result, have been doing a bit more research on the topic. Along the way, I have found two things which piqued my interest. If anyone can shed more light on these, I would be most grateful.

First, according to an older listing by Sotheby’s, this card was produced in June of 1907. I am unsure as to how they deduced this and would like to know the board’s opinion here. Granted, this appears to be the same signed version which was later offered in Goodwin's 2010 auction; however, a link to the Sotheby's info appears below.

http://www.sothebys.com/en/catalogue...08385.html/98/

Also, I was looking through some old Net54 threads and found this:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=120189&page=2

I have reached out to the person who left post #20 and I am trying to gather more information on the photo posted there. If anyone else might be able to provide insight as to where it came from, it would be greatly appreciate it.

Thanks to all for reading through a long post. I sincerely hope I am not bothering anybody by trying to discover more about this tremendous postcard and attempting to ascertain, with greater certainty, when it was issued.

Best Regards,

Eric

Wouldn't surprise me if Sotheby's just made up that date based on the copyright date.

Here's the auction link to the cabinet photo Eric...

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=65860

Jeff,

Thanks for the link. I have yet to look into it thoroughly; however, shall enjoy learning more about the cabinet card. Hopefully, along the way, I will be able to glean a bit of info regarding Leon's Postcard. They certainly appear to have been created from the same photograph.

I also appreciate hearing your take on Sotheby's. Unfortunately, given some of the Auction House inaccuracies I have seen discussed here recently, it does seem possible that the date was nothing more than a guess on their part. It is strange that they zeroed in on a particular month without supporting evidence, though. Perhaps I am naive; however, that seems a touch reckless on their part.

In any event, I sincerely thank you and truly appreciate your help.

Best Regards,

Eric

I agree. You can't use an auction house as a base for factual information. Sometimes they do their research and their information is based on fact but often it is just a claim made to make the best possible sale.

Jason,

I understand and completely agree. This seems like a variation of, "buy the card and not the holder." In this case, though, I guess it would be, "buy the item and not the auction house."

Having said that, it did pique my interest to see that they specifically noted the card was produced in June of 1907.

My sincerest thanks and appreciation.

Best Regards,

Eric

Sotheby's DID make up that date of June 1907. That was my consignment, and I certainly didn't give them that date, which I would have known to be almost certainly erroneous. But at least Sotheby's did better than PSA, whose "expert" pegged it as 1901 when 30 seconds of research would have revealed Johnson to have been 13 years old!

As Hank and Scott both said earlier in the thread, Johnson was given the nickname the "Weiser Wonder" after he left Weiser. The image below is from an article in the Idaho Statesman August 11, 1907.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7...s0/s597/WW.jpg

Hank,

Thank you very much for filling in this piece of the Sotheby's/June 1907 puzzle for me...I am certainly convinced they should have done their homework better before making such a claim.

And as for PSA, I am speechless as to why they noted this as being a 1901 issue...I still can't wrap my mind around that one.

In any event, I wholeheartedly thank you, for everything.

I will see what else I am able to discover regarding the postcard in the OP.

Best Regards,

Eric

The "white bordered" one, correct, not Leon's card? It was the former I referenced with my comment.

Based on the back, that card is almost certainly an AZO card, which is why I said it was a real photo.

Pretty sure they are BOTH printed-photo postcards and not real-photos ones, unless the sepia one was made from a grainy photo of the original cabinet or the blue printed postcard.

I also believe the back on that 1918 Weiser Wonder postcard is an AZO back...whoever made those took a photo of a photo.

Very possible, maybe it was a one-off by somebody just using a photo of a photo. That would also help explain the much later date.

Wish we could see a close-up of the sepia one to be sure.