Mastro pleads guilty
 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-...icle-1.1210539


Mastro agrees to plead guilty to fraud...

"Mastro will apparently acknowledge at the February hearing that he altered the world's most valuable trading card..."

it will be interesting to see how David Hall spins this one if it comes to pass.

Mastro will apparently acknowledge at the February hearing that he altered the world's most valuable trading card, a Honus Wagner T206 that has fetched millions of dollars in a series of high-profile transactions, including a 1991 sale for $451,000 to NHL legend Wayne Gretzky and former Los Angeles Kings owner Bruce McNall.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-...#ixzz2DfQSu4Qn

What's the penalty for trimming a card and not telling, how about pressing out a crease or soaking off notebook residue? Interesting...

Speaking of David Hall and the Wagner, CU stock hasn't been doing too well lately.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=C...rce=undefined;

And from our own hobby crusader.

"Just when I thought Bill Mastro could not be a more brazen and unrepentant criminal, he's now going to victims of his fraud asking for letters to be read at his sentencing," says New York attorney Jeff Lichtman, a longtime vintage card collector.
"He's claiming that he was indicted due to people with axes to grind. He's delusional."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-...#ixzz2DfWxTsVh

Mastro is just asking for three credit references and three PSA Authorized Dealer references so that he can become a PSA Authorized Dealer in February 2018. See link below for full details:

http://www.psacard.com/about/faq.chtml#faqid71

Who would've thought that Wagner was trimmed?

I am sure PSA would bend the rules like they did for JP Cohen of Memory Lane.

Psa
 

So, will PSA be indicted as being a part of this fraud?

The options are:

1. They were in cahoots with Mastro.

2. They looked the other way.

3. They are incompetent and can't detect a trimmed card. Even a T206 Wagner.

Not very good choices.

Rick

Mastro was long since out of the card when PSA graded it, having sold it in 1987 to Jim Copeland. Although I have heard rumors he was involved with the grading. Agreed they don't seem to have many good options, but another one is just to play ostrich. Or I suppose they could question Mastro's credibility, and suggest he is "admitting" to trimming the card only to avoid more serious charges and more jail time.

Rick, wasn't PSA created expressly for the purpose of grading the trimmed Wagner?

Am I reading it right that the statement that he trimmed the Wagner has nothing to do with the fraud?

Curious to see how this unfolds

interesting to see who is going to put their name out there as a character reference to be read in court.

psa is stuck.

Here is an excerpt from the original indictment. As I read it regarding cards, they allegedly misrepresented the sale of the Wagner PSA 8 from a prior time. So I don't believe it was the doctoring of the card itself that's the problem, but marketing the sale of the card at a later date that's the issue.

Another issue is that they allegedly knowingly sold doctored cards and sold them without disclosure of the alterations and advertised that they would not sell cards without disclosure of the alterations. It would be very interesting to know if these cards were professionally graded and to what extent this was a problem and if there will be any way of "recalling" these cards to make restitution to the current owners of these doctored cards.



False Representations Regarding Authenticity and Condition of Items

10. It was further part of the scheme that:
a. The Code of Conduct promulgated by in 2007 made the following representations, among others, regarding Mastro Auctions’ practices concerning disclosure of information that items sold at its auctions had been altered or restored:

i. If Mastro Auctions believed or had knowledge that an item
has been altered in any way, that information would be fully disclosed in the auction catalog.
ii. When, on occasion, Mastro Auctions had items restored in order to improve their presentation, the extent and nature of any restoration would be fully disclosed.
iii.
Under no circumstances would Mastro Auctions have restoration work done on trading cards.
b. After the Code of Conduct was published:
i.
Defendants MASTRO, ALLEN, and others knowingly did not disclose to bidders material information about alterations of items sold by Mastro Auctions.
ii. Defendants MASTRO, ALLEN and others knowingly did not disclose to bidders the extent and nature of restoration work performed on items sold by Mastro Auctions.
iii. Defendants MASTRO and ALLEN, along with others associated with Mastro Auctions, caused restoration work to be done on trading cards sold by Mastro Auctions, and knowingly failed to disclose that work to bidders.
11.
It was further part of the scheme that in marketing materials distributed on behalf of Mastro Auctions, which were intended to portray Mastro Auctions to potential bidders and consignors as a premier seller of valuable items for which a strong market existed, defendant MASTRO represented that Mastro Auctions had sold the most expensive baseball card in the world, a Honus Wagner T-206 card. In making this representation, however, defendant MASTRO knowingly omitted the material fact that defendant MASTRO had altered the baseball card by cutting the sides of the card in a manner that, if disclosed, would have significantly reduced the value of the card.
-

any possibility of a AUTH re-slab for the wagner By psa ?

Should've used BVG. The Wags would never have been able to be broken out of that the titanium holder to prove that it was trimmed.
C.

Until he allocutes or the terms of the deal are made public we won't know exactly what he's pleading to, but it is safe to assume it won't be pretty, whatever it is, and likely he traded his plea and cooperating for a lesser sentence.

I suppose Allen and Theotikos are feeling a bit like a Christian Scientist with appendicitis right about now.

Liked Jeff's quote.

Damnit. Your quote was better.

Stealing it if I get the chance, just so you know.

How wonderful to see the juxtaposition of the posts "Mastro pleads guilty" and "Legendary Winners - Part I" today! Isn't it delightful that the head of the company on whose watch these frauds were perpetrated will see little to no jail time! How grand that Mr. Mastro's legacy carries on with his co-defendants running the store! We truly live in the greatest country in the world!

Well, I don't think there's any other way to go, if he testifies to altering it. Not that many didn't already believe this anyways; but by him not disclosing this earlier, he left a bit of doubt.

I'd love to hear the details, like who else was on the sheet, how many were on the sheet, was it a strip or a sheet, etc.

And, I know that has nothing to do with the fraud. Hopefully whoever was a victim of his fraud gets compensated somehow; restitution.

Sincerely, Clayton

I doubt there was a sheet of cards. I don't want to start a bashing thread either way. But I knew Bill and Frank Nagy in the 1970's, 1980s. They set up at the Michigan Plymouth shows together for years. They really were a team. I bought many of my Cobb and Old judge cards from their table. I had some cards that I bought thru some antique dealers and Bill pointed out that they were not real. Bill was/is an expert on vintage cards. There are lot of new collectors piling on that know much less about cards and nothing about Bill. It's unfortunate that he trimmed this card, because it would have been worth a lot of money anyway. Bill brought a lot to the hobby, sorry that he did this to the Wagner. Not sure if ther are any "Oldtimers" on the board that remember Bill as I do. I do expect a lot negative feedback from this post.

Joe

I don't doubt that he's very knowledgeable about cards. I always assumed that.

Interesting dilemma, isn't it, to find out that someone who made a positive contribution followed it up with something morally reprehensible? I guess there are people who credit Mastro with guidance and even inspiration. And plenty of others respected him as one of the central figures in card collecting.

Well, all right, no need to reinterpret good deeds.

And yet, the damage he inflicted on the hobby is huge. Desecrating the t206 Wagner is inexcusable. And on top of that, PSA takes serious hit. The only question is whether it is their integrity or competence which is lacking.

In my opinion it's both. There was a thread started on the Collectors Universe Message Board in April 2005 where someone openly admitted that Mastro would take cards on consignment and doctor them and then have them graded. The thread was immediately deleted by CU. I saved the thread as an HTM file before it was deleted and attempted to attach it as a winzip file to this post but for some reason the winzip attachment is not working. I can forward the thread to someone who is more tech savvy about that stuff if there is any interest.

My father used to tell me where their is money to be made watch out.

Guys, Bill Mastro's crimes in this hobby did not start and end with the trimming of the Wagner card. His fraud was ongoing, systematic and all-encompassing. The great majority of people who bid in a Mastro auction were victims of his fraud.

My guess is that there are guys out there who made a lot more money by trimming cards than Bill ever did.

My guess is that there are guys out there who made make a lot more money by trimming cards than Bill ever did.

But that doesn't make any of this fraud right.

Perhaps the only person who should be arrested for fraud in the hobby is the guy who made the most money stealing?

I think Bill and Doug in jail will provide some deterrence for other fraudsters. There are also federal criminal cases ongoing for game-used uniform fraud. You can't expect everyone bad in this hobby to get arrested because a) many more federal agents and prosecutors would need to be hired; and b) there would be like 12 people left in the hobby. This is the first time in years in which the feds have gotten involved in our hobby and it surely has helped stop some (but not all) of the fraud. And I'm sure there are other criminal investigations going on right now of other types of fraud in the hobby.

I think the oversight that we get now, and the threat of it, is great for the hobby. Too bad it took a state scandal many years ago to start it (I think that's about when it started). And Jeff, come on, 12 people left? I could count at least 15.....well, maybe 14.

I'm shocked!

Seriously? "Who", after all the discussions we've had, after the book that was written, etc, etc, could possibly have had a bit of doubt? Name this person, and then tell me how this doubt was possible.

A rat goes to prison:D

Cool, more opportunities for defense lawyers!!:)

David Hall?

While I agree with you Scott, there were more than a few people who believed this was nothing more than an unsubstantiated rumor. How many people on this board, when the subject came up, said there was no way you could prove it was trimmed? Now it can be confirmed.

LOL! Yes indeed; the last remaining holdout in the hobby.

Re-reading the O'Keeffe article about Hall below, at one point Hall allegedly said,

"We never considered that it had been altered".

There are several ways one can interpret that comment.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ite...not-in-private

Seriously. Me.

After reading the book "The Card" a couple of times, I still had reservations.

The grainy black and white photo of the card in it's "un-trimmed" state was convincing, but I couldn't wrap my brain around the logic of cutting up the only known sheet (with a Wagner and a Plank!!)of T206's into singular cards, thinking it would make him more money. And, that was the given scenario in the book, that it was cut from a sheet. I felt someone with as much knowledge about cards would've instantly known the signifigance of this "sheet", and how valuable it would've been in it's entirety. I would think far more valueable than broken down into single cards.

Now, if it wasn't cut from a sheet, or strip, I could see why he trimmed it;for financial gain. But, to cut up a sheet? Don't get that. *Not saying trimming it is right, I would've left it alone*

So, I had doubts. And, I have no problem admiting it. Based on it being cut from a sheet.

Sincerely, Clayton

Mastro purchased it already cut from the sheet and trimmed it further, as i understand it.

Given the industry that is class action lawsuits (I just received a check in the mail for $4.14 for an action I had no idea I was part of), I wonder if some enterprising attorney/ies are gearing up for such an action on behalf of auction customers who were allegedly shilled or defrauded.

I have no idea what critical mass is required to constitute a "class" in such cases.

No need to worry: Bill has found religion and presumably the Ten Commandments as well. I'm certain he'll be providing full restitution to all of his victims, erm, I mean friends/character references.

edited - pointless post.

I now, a lot of people said that, but even before the book (and the recent confessions) came out, there was a large group of us who were 100% sure that it WAS trimmed. I was digging around in the archives six months or so ago, and found some of the old discussions - so I'm not being a hypocrite here, or revising history. It looks like there is no amount of evidence, short of an actual film showing the trimming, that will convince some people.

You know what's going to happen as long as there's big money at stake--someone's going to do whatever it takes to get at it!!!

Best, guys,

Larry

Wonder what holder the Plank currently resides in?

It's hard to detect sarcasm on the Internet, but its in an A holder

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2009/890.html

Great read on the Plank, Thanks for the article.

So, you have the person(s) who trimmed the card,,,whether from a strip, sheet, or just from a card with large enough borders- and you have a TPG who gave it the high grade that it had. Who is more at fault here for deception & fraud? The trimmer, the grader, or both?

Yes, the Plank was given a big "A".

Sincerely, Clayton

This has to be a rhetorical question.

I think PSA knowningly graded the card for the notoriety and exposure it was certain to bring the PSA brand.

There are those PSA apologists who defend this is not the case, but its hard to believe that you put your top graders and experts on one of the hobbys most valuable and iconic cards and they "miss it"

Come on now, Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining.

Ive never bought from any of the big auction houses as I always felt they were corrupt and suspect.

The bigger issue to me is the corruption that took place with the TPGer.

John

I'm surprised at all the focus on the one trimmed card when ^^^^ is really the bigger issue. Allegedly, one of the hobby's biggest auction houses was for years ripping off it's customers, be it with altered cards, misrepresented items or just plain old shill bidding.

When the one trimmed card is the most famous in the hobby, has sold for upwards of 2 million, and is the card that ushered in the era of third party grading, I think the focus is understandable.

The scandal is far bigger than one high profile card or one corrupt auction house. It became obvious to me and a lot of other collectors that there was a major widespread grading problem 7 years ago and the people responsible did nothing to correct the problem but only stay silent, silence and ban the whistleblowers and when forced to answer questions brought up by their loyal followers they would "spin" the issues by discrediting the critics.

At some point the national media has to pick up on this, especially when Mastro does plead guilty and if there is any sense of justice there needs to be some drastic changes or just shut the operation down. The biggest problem is that most collectors don't want that to happen and they become as much as the problem as the people directly responsible.

Third party grading is supposed to protect the collectors not sleep in bed with the dealers. Ha Ha Ha. Thanks PSA.

Divergent question.

Sincerely, Clayton

If you are going to bash a person or company you need to have your full name in your post. Put it there or it will be put there per the rules. thanks

Not bashing just stating facts you grade the first card ever in your company that is trimmed and you grade it PSA 8 for a certain person or company like that and if you gave service in a another company like that you would be Shut Down. I hate to tell you wake up and smell the Roses oh yea you are a dealer also so Sorry.

Thanks for putting your name out here.

Dan,

You were one of those collectors during the When It Was A Game fraud. I am sure you can understand the motivation even if now you feel differently.

Greg

To me, the entire thing is incredibly ironic.

The following, of course, is all theory :)

• An amazing card is 'found' by a businessman ($$$-driven) who loves cards :cool:
• The card is oversized, so he has it made 'normal' size, realizing it will look even better and be worth even more $,$$$,$$$,$$$ :)
• But he also realizes that altering cards is still sort of frowned upon in the hobby. So a plan is formed, and here is where the irony is born:
• A grading company is created for the express purpose of grading this one amazing card, therefore authenticating that it is unaltered. You are wearing blinders if you think anyone involved didn't understand 'the plan'. But maybe everyone was just incredibly naive? :confused:
• Hobbyists knew nothing about grading companies or slabbed cards, because this was the only one of either in existence (But I'm sure they could relate it to stamps or coins) ;)
• Now, the irony: This card in its new-fangled plastic slab, created the importance that we, as collectors, have put on card-grading and plastic slabs. :mad:
• ...so, if the Feds had gotten involved as soon as this card was slabbed and sold, everyone would have laughed. The perpetrators created a future hanging for themselves that could only occur if they were hugely successful. :(

Honest question. So one card from the strip is graded an 8 while the other is an A. The only difference being one was cut from the strip with more care?

And how can PSA continue to deny the Wagner's history when they have also graded the other significant card on the strip?

Mastro sold the Wagner to Jim Copeland in 1987. PSA was formed in 1991. And Alan Hager was slabbing cards before PSA did, through ASA.

I don't follow your thinking. CU & PSA was open about the When It Was A Game fraud and so was I and I posted CU press releases on the PSA Board like this.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...-73845467.html


I will say now looking back at the quotes by Orlando and Hall in the above article are pathetically lame in light of a lot worse things that have come to light since. This one is a doozy....

"We are dedicated to protecting collectibles consumers from fraud and misrepresentation in any form. We also fervently value our brand name. We will continue to work to protect collectors, and our own reputation, zealously."

Well PSA and CU were not honest nor open about what really happened. Can you show me where they informed collectors what to look for in the compromised holders? Can you show me where they informed collectors about the extent of the crime giving details of what cert numbers or cards were subject of the fraud? Did PSA ever inform the public of whether WIWAG obtained holders or was using previously sealed holders? If they did I missed that one too. It was a massive cover up. You may have posted that out of relief that the matter was over. Anyway, did not mean to derail the thread.

Here is a card graded by his company.

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2012/210.html

Not mine, unfortunately.

Hager invented, or at least had a patent on, the "arrowhead" holder PSA uses. He also claimed to have invented the 1-10 grading system but as I recall that was not patentable.

So, when PSA slabbed the card, it was NOT sold by Mastro? I must have missed something. Sorry about that. Also, I don't recall slabbed cards having any influence on anything or anyone prior to PSA, but again, I could be mis-remembering.

No, it was owned by Gretzky and McNall at the time, it was after they had purchased it in the Copeland auction.

Anyone else wonder why the judge was changed this late in the proceedings? So far, no one's saying.
I also get the part about his (Mastro) accepting reponsibility and cooperating with the Government to lessen the offense level and the Government probably dismissing some of the counts in the indictment and requesting a downward departure (5k1.1) but it will be interesting to see how many counts remain and whether any of the counts pertaining to the skinning of Mastro Auction bidders will remain. Lots of unanswered questions still out there......

Okay, I just went back and checked the book to see what gave me that impression. See page 87.

edited to add: The author of 'The Card' did a great job of pushing his own viewpoint. Page 87 had a pretty huge effect on my thinking, and "no", I did not read the book more than once :). I feel sort of like I've been 'Oliver Stoned'.

Greg,

Here's one announcement PSA put out. It's hardly a massive cover up in my opinion since any cards originating from WIWAG were eligible for review.

http://www.psacard.com/articles/arti...tml?artid=3741

Dan as I am sure you know PSA review often is not very meaningful.

Greg knows the situation better than I do, but my recollection is that collectors were basically left to their own devices or to deal with the FBI as if that was going to help anyone. No effort was made to inform collectors what to look for in a tampered holder, or what cards were involved, or how it all happened, and so forth.

Coin grading goes back well before PSA/PCGS. The ANA used to issue certificates that included grades at least in the 70's maybe before. Of course, swapping certs was common so they added pictures which didn't help much since excited buyers are often a bit blind. So slabbing began in the 80's

Stamps have a very long history of certificates indicating authenticity, since at least the 1930's. Expert marks were used before that and still are. (Yes, they stamp a symbol on the back) Only recently did PSA attempt slabbing stamps, an idea that seems to have failed. They did get oneother authenticating service to begin adding grades to the certificate, and that seems to be getting some support, although with exactly the same sorts of arguments about the grading itself. The stamp grades and authentication are much more reliable than for cards.

It will be interesting to see if the Wagner ends up in an A slab. I suppose the current owner or some future owner would have to request that?



Steve B

+1 which seems to be getting lost in everything

+2 I bought a lot of items, and spent a lot of money, from Mastro Auctions in good but misplaced faith. Suckers raped my wallet, allegedly or otherwise. The list of sins is long; the corruption imposed on our hobby is wide. Mr Lichtman's point is important.