New SGC Grading scale updates!!
 

I was asked to post this on behalf of SGC. I know nothing more than what is being posted here....best regards..LL

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With the National two weeks away now, we wanted to inform the collecting community of an important update to our grading system. Effective immediately, four new half grades will be available as part of the grading scale. The new grades are as follows:

• SGC 35 – 2.5 GOOD+
• SGC 45 – 3.5 VG+
• SGC 55 – 4.5 VG/EX+
• SGC 82 – 6.5 EX/NM+

For years, collectors have been asking for more options at the lower end of the scale where condition can vary greatly. These new half grades will serve to reward cards that are high-end for their grade with special attention paid to eye appeal. All cards submitted for grading will be eligible for half grades—there is no special process. Cards that are already graded by SGC may be submitted for review under any of the applicable grading fee tiers.

These grades are being added to round out the options available when it comes to assessing trading cards. They are not being added to complicate things for collectors. As such, the labels will remain the same so that consistency within a collection can be maintained and the 100 point scale will be preserved to avoid difficulties with the registry, the population reports, and other established areas.

We’ll be set up in the corporate area in Baltimore and encourage anyone attending to stop by and see how the new half grades present. As usual, on-site grading will be offered all week for raw cards, crossovers and reviews. Please feel free to call or e-mail us with any questions.

Thank you,

Sportscard Guaranty
800-742-9212




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Seems like a great idea. There is a much wider range between grades at the lower ends. Makes sense. I am happy to hear they are doing this!

Personally, I think this would be a good time to drop the 100 point scale and just do 1-10 with the half grades. I know they put those on anyway. Why not just keep it simple and in line with what has become an industry standard for grading scales.
JimB

Sounds like a great idea also. Will there be any way to determine if a card has been graded before these new half grades came out or after? For example, for PSA, you could tell the pre-half grades since the grade and number were on the same line, but after-half grades, they were on separate lines.

just like psa, just another opportunity to make more money by sending in cards you already had sent into them the first time, hoping to get a half grade bump, they will have 3/4 grades soon when they need more money.

Just keep bitching about things that you do not have to do. Don't like a show on TV....Don't watch it. Don't like a new business in town...Don't go. If the collectors want this service, then OK use it. I find my time is better suited to trying to get people back to reality, than complaining about a new service.

Just for general info, I don't get things graded by anyone but me.

Rawn

Is there a Net54 SGC Grading Special @ the National this year?
Maybe Half Price in honor of Half Grades?

+1

+1

Hmmm....
 

Gonna make it tougher to get all forties :D

Well put, Rawn. I dig it.

Best,

Andy

You're already sitting on a bunch of 45s, so you're actually going backward.;)

You might have to get all your 40's bumped up to 45's and finish off with all SGC 45's. I like 50's but since i buy only high end 50's, i probably have alot of 55's :cool:

more false precision in my humble opinion.

I love SGC, but I agree there is no reason for this change. They started with a proverbial 100-point scale -- obviously they knew there was more room for detail from the get go. Why in 2012 does it suddenly make sense?

This is a rare move without substance that we seldom see from SGC. Hopefully it is not a portent of things to come.

I find it slightly ironic that you bitch about people bitching about things.

It actually does make sense to have them if they have them at the higher end scale, may as well be consistent across the entire grade scale.

Still false precision to me, but that's really any grading scale.

This.

+1

Other than cards where the difference in value between a 2 and 2.5 or 3 and 3.5 is substantial, I doubt there will be a whole lot of resubmits for half grades. I believe they were responding to collector requests.
JimB

Well, Jason, I tend to comment on people that bitch about things constantly. I again state that I have not sent things to be graded and have no choice in grading companies.

Rawn

Greeeeeat! In reference to the original topic. :rolleyes:

bitching on an internet message board?! now I've seen it all.

I personally could care less about the half grade system. Eye appeal trumps all regardless of the number that's typed on the flip by some monkey.

+1

I believe the half grades are needed but should have been started when the TPG'ers decided to go into business. Hopefully they never follow their coin grading standards. Coins are graded on a 70 point scale and both PCGS(PSA) and NGC(SGC) use single points from 60 to 70. Imagine ten different grades for a PSA 9 (9.0 to 9.9).:eek:

Agreed with this. This change mainly affects cards at the lower end of the grading scale and I think most people aren't going to pay money to have their lower end cards re-evaluated. Assuming you get the bump, a half point grade probably won't make that much of a difference in the value of most cards (obviously there will be exceptions) in that grade range.

Yes, this was a response to customer requests. This is different than PSA's half grade implementation. PSA's half point change was profit driven. Their review special that immediately followed their new change proved that.

Show 100 people, who do not suffer from color-blindness, either an example of blue or an example of green and they likely will be able to identify the color correctly. Show the same 100 people a card starting with blue on the left side and morphing to green on the right. Ask them to pinpoint exactly where blue becomes green and you will get many different answers. The answers will be skewed by subjectivity. The extra grade options will offer the same results. :confused:

+1

I think it's long over due. PSA grades like crap anyways so its pointless to have 1/2 points when it really don't matter. SGC on the other hand is more accurate and thus 1/2 points will allow even better grading accuracy. This is JMO

+2

Sgc
 

Andrew, I also like the half grade point system for lower to mid grade cards. I have a few I will resubmit.

Tony

new Spinal Tap grade
 

There should be an 11, for like when a 10 isn't good enough and you need just a little more...

Cheers,
Geno

Gino, actually SGC sorta has an "11" the Pristine grade.
The Pristine grade is a SGC-100, while there SGC-98 is a Gem Mint grade
A PSA-10 is Gem Mint, so for PSA to have a higher grade then Gem Mint
they would have to incorporate an "11" to equal SGC's Pristine grade.

+1.5

Wow this is really exciting! I can't wait to spend good money trying to increase the value of my cards by upgrading the plastic!

It's funny how whenever we have a thread about grading, people have strong opinions and always take sides. I guess there will always be the pro-slabbers and those who don't care for it.

My 1954 Red Heart Musial run of all grades just got much harder to complete.:mad:

http://imageevent.com/rgold/rgoldsco...redheartmusial

I'm hugely pro-slab, and really don't care for this move.

It's a move that helps SGC stay more competitive with PSA, and also adds to their bottom line as collectors resubmit cards for a second look. Does the hobby really need it? Probably not. But SGC is a good company and I understand it's a business decision.

The addition of an "82" makes their grading scale even more confusing and, really, nonsensical. 55-60-70-80-82-84??? I agree with the poster who said they should now just go to 1-10, with .5s representing the half grades. As for the "100" they could just label the card "pristine" without need for a numerical grade.

I'm all for SGC adding the half grades. Hopefully all of the big players will spend all their money on getting their cards bumped a half grade and not be able to afford that card I've had my eye on!;)

so if i had a card that was almost a 5, but not quite, it gets a 4, i sell it to somebody for $300. now that sgc decides they want to give out half grades, he sends it in and it gets a 4.5, he can now sell it to someone else and make more than i did because half grades werent "invented" yet.

when they say that the customer demands it, they mean that a few, well-heeled customers with huge collections demanded it. its all about $$$$.

if sgc were to lose money by implementing half grades, they wouldnt just do it because the customer demands it. they knew they could make more $$$ by doing it, so they did it.

getting a company to do something that make sense even though it wont make them money is hard and almost impossible, look at psa/dna autographs. they know what the right thing to do with autograph authentication, for many years, but they wont implement any changes that are a money loser, even if it is for the betterment of the hobby. they only implement changes that $$$$ and $$$$, for better or worse, and most times worse in my view.

if you agreed with me, then i wouldnt be bitching, its only bitching because we disagree. let's all agree on everything from now on. shake.

What happens if you send a card to SGC for a half grade bump, and the grader discovers it was altered and they missed it the first time around? Does the card get downsized, or does it have immunity?

Excellent question! PSA, has a guarantee that if you resubmit a card, it has the possibility of being upgraded, but not downgraded. SGC would be wise to offer a similar guarantee, but I haven't seen anything suggesting this.

Don't think that scenerio would come up very often. If a card was overgraded to begin with,
the submitter probably wouldn't spend money thinking it would bump.
I'd imagine submitters would be sending in cards that looked high end for the grade.

"SGC would be wise to offer a similar guarantee, but I haven't seen anything suggesting this. "

I couldn't disagree more with this policy...talk about being all about the money for PSA/SGC?

How many people would resubmit their cards if there was a chance that the grade could go down? Not many!!!!

This change within SGC...while deemed necessary due to PSA doing it...is not going to be good for the hobby in any way shape of form!

now that's funny!


Back when I cared more about the number on the flip than I do now, I always found it a bit odd that there wasn't an 82 / 6.5. Given that they had a 1.5 (SGC 20) and some half grades on the upper end, it makes sense that they'd add the ones in the lower-mid range.

I can only think about Scott's beautiful T206 Wagner when hearing about this news. I'd imagine that card is due for a bump.

Agree completely with Peter. The only way this has any integrity is if there is a risk/reward system built in. That way SGC is able to correct any mistakes they may have made in the past (it happens) and the submitter fully understands the risks going in. If it's only a one-way street then it's nothing more than a handout.

I've always rated SGC head and shoulders the best grading company, and I hope they do this the right way.

That situation already existed, you don't think there were SGCs crossed to PSA since PSA implemented half point grades?

Guidelines?
 

The grading scale page on SGC does not (yet) contain guidelines for what constitutes the new grades: http://sgccard.com/grading_scale.htm

Any ideas? Strictly focus and/or centering? Simply stronger than an "x" but not good enough to be a "y"?

And just think, all those over priced BUY IT NOW cards on Ebay that do get the .5 bump just went up in price. Same card, but at a new higher price.
Sorry I just think the whole thing is silly.

I think the new half grades are a good thing in general for SGC. They needed them to stay competitive. For me personally, I buy cards based on eye appeal and authenticity not a number on a piece of plastic.

Surprised that people say SGC does not have a "grade can't go down" feature. I submitted a Mayo a couple months ago aug a show and stipulated must be same grade or above and they wrote that on order and said that was guaranteed. Unusual?

With crossovers...there is no guarantee of a same grade or better cross. I have submitted a handful of psa cards for cross and requested same or better and in all cases cards were returned untouched.

Maybe if SGC already has graded the card...they'd guarantee same grade or better...but then again why would you have resubmitted an SGC card to SGC a few weeks ago before they implemented this new grading scale?

Somebody tell me please, does SGC already have a policy that essentially promises your grade can't go down unless you agree? Just put a min grade requirement that's the same as it already graded and at worst you get your card back as failing to meet the minimum grade. Do min grade requirements only apply to cross-overs or are they good for review of SGC already-graded cards as well? If the latter then it seems the submitting party has no risk.

This is a win win win scenario.

SGC wins because (as Barry put it so well) it "helps SGC stay more competitive with PSA, and also adds to their bottom line as collectors resubmit cards for a second look."

The pro-slabbers win because they get what they were requesting for many years (ie. more options at the lower end of the grading scale, where a card's eye appeal can vary greatly).

And the anti-slabbers win because this give them more ammo to lob at the grading companies for being money-grubbing, clueless, unproffesional dimwits who get it wrong half the time.

Win win win! :)

edit: actually, the only guy who gets screwed is RGold and his awesome Red Heart Musial collection. :D

I have this to say, i just received my grades and i truly believe 2 cards would have received 50's before the new grading system. Both cards received 45. I mean we've all seen worse haven't we?

SGC new grades
 

I think it's a great idea and plan on resubmitting a bunch. Most of us buy on eye appeal, but who wouldn't want their card in a holder with a higher grade?? It's silly to say you wouldn't, as a higher grade can't hurt your collection, only enhance the value. But, some card collectors do buy the holder. No question a Babe Ruth RC in a 4.5 is worth more than a 4 with equally as pleasing eye appeal. A bump in a card like that may cost $200 to regrade with a 10-15k bump in value.

LOL, and you are the guy they were hoping for when the decision was made. :)

SGC grading scale
 

Lol then it worked. No brainer as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure I'm not the only one resumitting cards. Long overdue by SGC IMO.

IMO, you'd have a better chance going to Vegas and putting all your money down on one Roulette number. Hope it works out for you, but don't think it will.

Sgc
 

???? Not sure I know what you mean by that. Who wouldn't want the most accurate grade on their card? SGC has always given the lower number when between grades, and they'll be the first to tell you that. .5 of a grade on a "valuable" card makes a financial difference, and if for nothing else, a more accurate grade on your card. PSA & Beckett have half grades, I don't see a problem with SGC doing it.

An accurate grade or a higher grade? I think the idea that a grading company can mint money by bumping a card is a little disconcerting to me. Sounds like others may agree.

But it's the exact same card -- this is why it's such an inherently flawed system, the enormous value difference based on opinions that change day to day, grader to grader.

If the higher grade is accurate, and the market places value on the higher grade, I don't see the issue. The real issue in TPG is the same one it always has been, that altered cards get through. That's where money truly is minted.

Peter- if it's a balanced system, where a card mistakenly given a numerical grade is now deemed to be trimmed, and reholdered as such, I too am okay with this system. But if it's a one-way street, where cards only go up but are guaranteed never to go down, then it's no more than a handout to good customers.

I agree w/Barry...it has to go both ways! If a card is "mistakenly" assigned a lower grade...imagine how many cards were "mistakenly" given too high a grade.

My comment said IF the higher grade is accurate, I have no issue with it. I agree with you, if it's going to be in part a vehicle to hand out favors, I don't like it. PSA went through a phase where they would hand out bumps at shows and I didn't like that either.

+1

The "system" dictates that a card's value will be directly related to its technical grade as determined by a subjective 3rd party. So many people have bought into this, its disturbing!

p.s. this is my opinion so i hope no one sues me for libel when their sales drop next fiscal year :)

Again, I just don't think this is that big of a deal and a good thing overall for SGC. If you have a card that has been a certain grade but is freaking great for that grade, it has always and will always sell for a premium. If I sold this card I am quite sure it would bring more than most 4s of the same card.....because it warrants it, not because it is really a 4.5, right Peter? :)

http://luckeycards.com/pe901youngportrait.jpg

If a review can go both ways (up or down), no one would ever get their card reviewed for the fear of the grading going down for some reason. Think of a review like this like a crossover from another TPG where you specify a minimum grade and that minimum grade is the current grade on the card. I don't think anyone has problems with crossover attempts only going up or staying the same when a minimum grade is stated.

I think it will be virtually impossible for a card to get downgraded because as we've said, only high end cards for the grade will be resubmitted. Let's say you have ten SGC 50's in your collection, you are only going to send in the two or three best ones for consideration. The ones even you think might be overgraded will never be seen again by a grader. Leon's E90-1 Young (above) is a perfect candidate as it is a very high end card within the range of VG-EX.

But what if someone sends in a group of high-end 80's, with a hope of getting some 82's, and the grader notices that one card is a hairline short and probably never should have gotten the numerical grade. Is he allowed to rectify the error, or are his hands tied? That's the issue for me. The chance of any collector sending in an SGC 50 with a surface crease is nil.

Devil's Advocate:
1) The strong 4's will get properly bumped to 4.5s, but the weak 4's won't get properly downgraded to 3.5
2) TPGs are all over the map as it is, sometimes grading the same card anywhere from Authentic to a 3 to a 6 and everywhere in between. If they don't have the consistency/accuracy to correctly grade to a whole number, how can they find the precision to grade to a decimal?

While Leon's e90-1 young is very nice...is that not a crease running left to the center of the card at the height of cy's eye?

If so...how could this possible be a candidate for an upgrade...unless of course you send it to psa?

The other problem from a TPG perspective with downgrading is that I would imagine they would be liable for the difference in value in the card by downgrading since it would have been their mistake. Unless the error is egregious I doubt there would be an inclination to downgrade.

And I agree with Barry that since most people would only be submitting cards they feel are high end for the grade anyway, the likelihood of legitimately necessitating downgrade is slim.

In terms of numbers, lets say they get the grade right 98% of the time. Among the 2%, let's say some deserve upgrades and some deserve downgrades. My guess is that it is highly unlikely that the ones that really ought to be downgraded will get submitted with the hope of an upgrade very often.
JimB

Sgc
 

An example for me for an upgrade would be this card. I've seen a PSA 4 & 3 get sold the past 2 years that weren't as nice as this one. This by all accounts, should be higher than an SGC 30. No creases, and just for the "principal" of it, I'd like to see it in a higher graded holder. I don't see the downside of submitting it now that SGC has half grades. I think they're fair with their grading, and if it deserves a more accurate grade with their new system, then maybe it will end up in a higher graded holder. Apples to apples in the eye appeal department, a 35 would be worth more than a 30.

Ugly card. :D

But a weak 4 is still a 4. If it got downgraded to 3.5 it wouldn't be in the 4 range. I don't disagree with the TPG's having some wiggle room but SGC and BVG seem to be very consistent, not perfect, but consistent.

PCOZ-That E103 Wags deserves a 2.5 and I absolutely believe is a perfect candidate. A 2.5 should be worth more than a 2 but I also don't think you got it at a 2 price, nor a whole 3 price. You bought the card not the holder which is the only way it was going to be sold, if I remember correctly. It's a great card, sir. Really is in the top part of E103 Wags I have seen.

Sgc
 

Leon, I completely agree. You were right on the money on price, and correct that a nice 2 should be priced above an average 2. Regardless if it's upgraded or not, I'm thrilled to have it. But, it is a good candidate now that they have the .5 system to give it a shot.

These threads about the specifics of grading always make me laugh.

Doug