Entombed in Plastic
 

How many cards have you freed from their sterile, plastic tombs? Today was a slow day for me as I only freed a single soul - a T206 Neal Bell Piedmont 460 25 PSA 3. He's feeling much better now that he can breath the clean air...

Tempting
 

I am always tempted to crack out my graded cards because I love the feel of "raw" cards. Just think how much plastic i have saved with this stack alone...

That photograph is simply gorgeous.

???
 

why would you do this?

1. you like to devalue your card
2. you like to risk damaging the card from handling
3. you like water or mildew staining to advance
4 you like to risk damage during crackout
6 you like small plastic shards on the floor or in your eye..

very strange indeed....

any other reasons to perform this "unwise" task?

27 so far
 

1 GAI, 12 SGC, 14 PSA. Used to use a table saw to free them. Now, just a twist and the last 4 PSAs and 2 SGCs have just popped open. Not so sure about that whole air-tight seal thing everyone thinks is going on.

I do it because I'm not concerned about the value. I don't collect because of the value. I like to store my cards in plastic pages - as God intended:). Because I'm a type collector and not terribly interested in having the most expensive cards in the highest grades, I can justify it easily to myself. If I had a 52 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 - sure, I'd leave it in the plastic. But, I'll never own such a card because I have no desire to have investment grade cards.

Love the picture Chris (except the Dunkin Donuts cup next to them on the table - that makes me nervous :) )

Man, that picture says to me what baseball card collecting is all about!

A box beside my work bench in the basement. Haven't emptied it in a few months.

Yet another great snapshot that makes me happy this afternoon!

It sounds like you're buying cards purely for investment, which is fine. Most collctors would probably just chuckle at that post though.

I've cracked probably about 100 or so T205's over the years.



1. you like to devalue your card
Lost money on most of the ones I sold, due to the economy, not due to the fact they were raw. (All were low grade anyway.)

2. you like to risk damaging the card from handling
I've taught myself to be VERY careful.

3. you like water or mildew staining to advance
Never thought about this one.

4 you like to risk damage during crackout
I've always been a gambler.

What happened to number 5?

6 you like small plastic shards on the floor or in your eye.
I wouldn't say I like it, but it's a small price to pay for a piece of history that I can touch, feel and smell.

Most importantly...TO EACH HIS OWN.

<a href="http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb189/Tyjaycox/?action=view&amp;current=unslabbed.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb189/Tyjaycox/unslabbed.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

cracking slabs is fun until you turn a VGEX e98 cobb into GOOD

i love the look af the graded card for my part, but i must admit i thinked many time about crack all my holder....

but i don t think i will do it :)

Don't you know you guys are skewing all the Pop reports? :eek: How dare you, that's important research information. :)

Lee

Cards
 

The one and only way to collect cards! RAW. That is the way it was from the beginning and the way it should stay! :D

I was surprised when I sold of collection on ebay 2 years ago I actually made a profit even though all were raw...1/2 I popped out of their holders.Grades were in the g- vg-ex range.(Goudeys,a few caramels)When I bought them I had no intention to sell but I wanted to finance a non card purchase.That said maybe or maybe not I would have gotten more.If they were higher grade I probably wouldn't have broken them free.Low to mid grades...does it really matter?. If you have good scans a collector can tell ...for the most part the quality.Alot of great bargains out there raw.I don't mean this to be a anti grading rant. Love those pics!!!!
scott

Maybe they want to hold their card and not keep them in a tomb.

I break out slabbed autographs the same way. Some people want to collect cards and not slabs or numbers.

I freed a '57 autographed George Kell last week to toss in the binder. I've also freed the Berra, Aaron, Williams cards from that set.

Ive taken down 100-150 slabbed cards. Im not going to argue slab vs non-slab but cards were meant to be held, put in pages and experienced...like when we were kids. Im sitting on all my slabbed cj's ( about 80 or so) until I finish the set and will free them 1 by 1 and place into my customized book. I dont bust them out yet as I may up/downgrade some. I CANNOT WAIT!

Grading T206 cards that are obviously in bad condition is kind of tacky in my opinion (and a waste of money). You can tell it's poor (creased/stained/rounded, etc) just by looking at it, you don't need PSA to tell you the condition sucks. Keep these raw. It looks better anyway, I never liked seeing the word "poor" next to my cards. Kind of insulting to a 103 year old card, don't you think?

Every time I see beaters in PSA slabs I feel like cracking them out. There are plently of ways to protect cards other than a slab.

I realize that I'm in the minority, but I'm of the opposite opinion. I think that if you have a beater of a card, the card "wants" to be slabbed just like that PSA 8 1952 Mantle. The card wants to be around to be enjoyed for another 100 years, and there's a lot more chance that will happen if it's slabbed. It'll be better protected from the elements, and there's less of a chance it will accidentally get thrown away.

The main reason I buy slabbed cards is because I worry about buying an altered card. I would rather a card in poor condition than one that presents better but is altered.

Me too
 

+1

All of them. hate slabs.

Here's the thing...in just plain old top loads I have a set of 518 (plus one) T206s in two photo boxes...how much room would it take to keep this set in slabs.

If I sell my cards I'll get some slabbed, but only the high grade stuff.

Lol i only have 100 graded t206 and it take 1 tablet in my safe...i cant imaginé 520 graded cards...i have a big safe but not enough for 500 graded card

I've cracked probably 100-150 cards out of their plastic prisons. Now, as for this comment:

I have one thing to say: SAFETY GLASSES! I always wear them when cracking a slab, and you should too!

By the way, I am not convince the value of a 1 or a 2 is enhanced by being slabbed. .

I dont think too. But i love the look of the card in slabs.

I prefer slabs on mine for a few reasons, but the predominant one is, the vast majority of transactions I'm in on, are over the interwebs... Slabs, for all their flaws, do help protect me as a buyer. It's not like the old show days where you could examine each card up front, feel the stock etc etc...

The new online purchasing world makes slabs almost requisite, especially for any card over the $500 threshold IMO

Easily 100+
 

I think slabbing is fine if it does not impact the value. Cards are still worth what someone else is willing to pay so I never consider paying more for a graded card and often times I don't agree with the grade. I recently discovered I can let my two year old play with them before I bust them out which is a positive. If I did believe in leaving them in the holder then I would collect SGC over PSA for eye appeal.

Opening is easy with my handy dandy letter opener. Two turns and a pop and the cards free without damage. I haven't damaged any of the 100 or so I've busted out over the years.

Great photos, Tyler, Rob, and Chris...


A slab is kinda like bubblewrap... Most of the slabbed cards I've acquired have been broken out. A card travels better in the mail if it's in a slab. For folks who leave the cards in slabs for protection, then leave them in their shipping packaging, too. That'll keep the sunlight out, protecting them more (except for any moisture or mold that is on that slabbed card ((that could be eliminated if the card were removed and dried))). Just print off a page that has the scan of the card you bought, and tape that to the envelope.

A stack of white border cards fit nicely enough in a small box, and take up about the same space as 8 slabs stacked together... the raw cards take about 98% less space. And the cards become easily sortable, neat to lay them next to each other when following the series changes or the uniform changes...

ARRRRRRRR...... how do Pirates like their cards? RRRRRRAWWWW!!!!!
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...e/512T206s.jpg

Two new companies I'm starting
 

I would like to refer members to my two new companies.

1. Please view my first offer on Channel 872 for:

SLABCUTTER ($19.99) - ORDER NOW AND WE'LL DOUBLE THE OFFER. JUST PAY ADDITIONAL PROCESSING AND HANDLING.

2. The second offer is available online at:

SLABAGAIN.com - JUST SEND YOUR RAW CARD AND OLD FLIP AND WE'LL RETURN IT IN A SHINY NEW SLAB FOR HALF THE PRICE OF THE ORIGINAL TPG.

Why corner just half the market?

Once liberated from a two piece, put with one of my handy dandy inserts (which I am going to eventually get around to actively selling) and put in a top load, I am quite fine with the absence of a slab. Good protection, takes up a fraction to the space and looks pretty nice too, IMO.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...card1/oaks.jpg

For me...I used to be strictly a collector...I probably never sold a card until maybe 8 yrs ago. Now being a little tired of the type collecting I've been doing for decades...am selling cards to fund newer...more exciting cards. For this reason alone I find it prudent to have many of my cards graded prior to selling if they are high value cards. I have only had maybe 50 or so cards graded myself...all the rest were purchased that way...and I have only broken a few slabs to resubmit. I envy all raw collectors as this is the way it should be!

I pity those who have never held a raw card in hand...as many issues are variable in card stock, thickness, etc...and this is easily witnessed with a raw card in hand!

hundreds of each
 

Imo, there is no way to get to know cards very well without handling some raw ones. I have hundreds that are raw and hundreds that are slabbed. Almost all of my higher valued cards are slabbed. That's just the way I roll. To each their own.

Slab
 

I have to think the grading companies love seeing this thread. More circulation for them. As cards are bought, sold, traded .. raw, cracked out, crossed-over, etc - dreamers, bargain hunters, flippers, enthusiasts - for show or for dough, or just those who do value the slab and grade will resubmit .. time and time again.

I always crack out the "A" and "1" and "1.5" cards for my collection--no need to waste space on storage for those. Nearly all of my Exhibit sets are in binders. If there is some reason why I want the card to stay in a slab and it is part of a set, I've taken to making a laser print of the card in the slab and putting it in the album space where the card was supposed to go, just to remind myself that I have it and don't need to buy it.

If I want to resell the cards, they stay in plastic--just easier to move them.

Another slow day - only freed 1 card - a 1971 Topps Tattoo of Boog Powell & Don Money - PSA 6

that is very cool man

well,
 

if you like raw cards so much, buy them raw!

you will certainly save money....its just seems cracking raw cards out that you bought is a waste of money, because a graded card clearly brings in more than a raw card...

think about your ESTATE PLAN....your family member who inherits your cards will be in a far worse situation trying to liquidate raw cards ...

dont want to call it selfish but....

Gloves off
 

I'm with you entirely, Scott, and have never cracked a slab except by accident. The only drawback with my large collection of 1000 slabs is weight (about 160 pounds).

PSA and SGC probably enjoy this thread laughing all the way to the bank. Slab, crack, slab, crack, slab, crack, etc. A perfect business model for them.

It looks like we are in the minority, but perhaps there are a lot of folks like me, who are reluctant to join the fray on a thread like this. We may just be part of a silent majority. Thanks for your sanity.:)

My estate plan is now complete with the purchase of a forklift to help my wife "move" my slabs. Hope she doesn't use it on me first.:confused:

No one's position on this sensitive issue is going to be changed by anything said here. Fortunately I have some raw cards as well, so I'll just go back to feeling my stack.;)

Although I am a firm believer in slabbing, I understand the point of those who collect raw cards (although I don't completely understand why they just don't let people collect what they want to collect and are so ferocious in their views). Many people have been collecting cards for a long, long time. They know cards and the hobby extremely well, and they love the hobby. However, the sentiment is that many of the new collectors do not love the hobby. They look at it as an investment or just for flipping, similar to stock market day traders. This drives up the price of the hobby and makes it worse overall. Grading companies, especially PSA, exacerbate. These new collectors do not see the card for the card, but only for the grade on the flip, almost like a stock that they are trading in their portfolio. That is why there is real resentment here. The second part is knowledge of cards. Similar to old time professions such as farming, old timers say that you have to get your hands dirty to gain knowledge of trade. You have to stick your hands in the dirt and feel the earth. People complain that they need TPG's to determine authenticity of cards, but long time hobbyists believe that you simply need to dedicate yourself to the cards more, and then you will be able to determine authenticity (and other alterations) for yourself. If you handle many raw cards, you will be able to feel the card stock and understand what authentic pre-war cards should feel like. That way, you will be able to judge for yourself (even better than graders!) if a card is genuine or not. Slabbed cards on the other hand, make the hobby more sterile. New collectors no longer have a chance to learn about cards as in the past and lose the knowledge and appreciation that comes with it.

Many hundreds, but most of my cards are postwar. The majority of my prewar stuff is the kind of stuff that isn't graded (police gazettes, Blums, various supplements)

Doug

Fantastic post Gary. As for estate planning - I have IRA's, mutual funds, other assorted retirement accounts and life insurance to take care of my family when I'm gone. I am not going to depend on baseball cards to do that.

Gary - Dead on brother. I've been collecting cards for 30 years, I know what a card is worth irregardless of that stupid number on the flip. If there's a chance Ill resell I will not bust it out simply b/c it moves easier, thats just the way it is with all the guys collecting that have yet to get their hands dirty. I dislike slabs and smile every time I free a card...they are for kids!

Its amazing the difference in how many times Ive received a slabbed card and busted it open to be disappointed in what the scan/slab hide vs the raw card. Rarely am I disappointed in a raw card purchase via internet. Scott, calling us selfish is simply ignorant as you don't understand the reasoning of our collecting. I'll be damned if I ever spent 1-flippin cent on a TPG and thats ignorant as well but my personal beliefs are of higher priority and TPG's do not make me fell like a kid with cards. Its all about where you're coming from. So good for all those that appreciate slabs as well for those that love their raw cards...I love slabs too as they bust open!:D

And I thought I was the only one who is ambivalent about the whole slab/don't slab/crackout thing. :)

I have a few I've sent in, and a few I've bought. One I'm considering cracking out - SGC 10 for several obvious reasons. But them, I'm a bit lazy, so it'll probably stay slabbed till I need the space.

I do think the ones that are possibly very nice probably should be slabbed. I've done pretty well with the few I've sent in. The obviously VG ones really don't need much beyond a penny sleeve and toploader. (to me VGex is debatable, as are the really nice VGs like a few I've sent in) I'm fussier about postwar, I haven't sent any in yet, and the only ones I have graded came out of packs that way.

And I was around long enough when most dealers had stacks of cards just loose and rubberbanded, handling the cards raw is pretty cool, and is the best way to learn.

Slab, don't slab, bust 'em out --It's all ok with me.

Steve B

A graded 1 or 2 often costs no more than a raw one. Given that, buy and crack. And your whole concept of the estate plan goes out the window if it isn't worth more.

gary
 

im not a flipper, only sold a few modern cards over the years...

also, you dont seem to realize how the hobby has changed over the last 30 years....as cards have become worth more and more, there has been an influx of more dirt bags trying to scam people....the TPGs protect people from dirtbags....

if the cards didnt escalate in value over the years, then we woulnt need TPG...but, since we know that big bucks are spent on cards, its important to have a third party leveling the playing field....

when i see a nice card not slabbed, i am not willing to pay up for that card because of the risk of it being trimmed, altered. etc...

so i simply wanted to make the point that if you deslab your cards, your are hurting their value because most buyers like myself will be hesistant to buy raw...JUST LIKE YOU BOUGHT THE CARD GRADED FOR PIECE OF MIND....you may KNOW its authentic and not trimmed after you deslab it, but what about the next owner or the potential buyer? they will not be so sure of its authenticty as the person who deslabbed it!

most importantly, in-person transactions are rare these days, so we have to rely on scans online or from an auction book, so the old timers cant touch and feel to check for authenticity...another reason to keep things slabbed.

how many raw cards does REA have up for auction? nuf said

well over a thousand.....

leon
 

i dont have mine in front of me...

how many raw cards does REA have in the first 100 pages??

zero?

I have only busted out a few - usually when the large majority of a set is raw. A couple of 52 bowmans, nothing higher than psa 2. and one or two in a random modern or post war set here and there. I don't think I have ever busted a prewar card.

Ultimately I prefer raw because I like stacks of cards as I did when I was a kid. My feelings on the raw vs graded most closely mirror SteveB's (although I've never submitted any cards for grading, but I do have a couple of candidates that I'd like to send one day if I get around to it)

That wasn't the question.

My T206 Cobb (red) is driving me crazy. My all-time favorite card. But he is slabbed in plastic. I have the card-----that's great. But I have never touched it. Something wrong about that. I bet some day I crack it and get the full satisfaction of owning it and actually touching it.

Scott
 

Scott,

I didn't mean to imply that you were a flipper. And as I have said before, I believe in slabbing, and practically all of my prewar cards have been slabbed by PSA, SGC, or BVG. I was just trying to explain that there was another side to the argument, which I understand. It's just another one of those things where reasonable people will just have agree that there are reasonable differing opinions out there.

I should add
 

I should add that even though I think there are a ton of raw cards in the hobby, and even some valuable raw ones, I do agree with what Scott F. is saying. It is also the reason I have almost 100% of my higher valued cards in holders. Just my opinion but I think de-slabbing an expensive card is not wise. (for the reasons Scott and others have stated). Even though I am argumentative and play devil's advocate I try to be fair in my arguing. :)

Most of the price escalation has been in the mint category. My Dad bought me a 1968 Topps Mantle for my 8th birthday, That was 1988. It was in fair condition, he paid 60 dollars... Guess what that card is worth today? Of course the price has "escalated" because slabbed mint examples have sold for thousands of dollars right?

Its a really good thing TPGs are around to keep the value of mint cards high. Just don't crack the plastic or you'll lose the value... CRAZY AS F***!

totally disagree...

there are hardly any prewar mint cards to begin with so this argument holds no water...

the rarity of a card mainly determines its valuation...actually the more times a specific card is found in mint, the less it is worth...

+1

Do what makes sense for your collecting style. I prefer the lower/mid condition raw stuff, however with the higher valued cards, beaters or not I prefer the look and "security" of a slabbed card.

if you haven't already done so...i bet you won't.

If the rarity of a card determines its valuation then no value should be lost by cracking a slab.

Rarity value is simply supply and demand, but thats not what you are referring to in any of your posts.

successfully cracking and re-subbing a card for a higher grade actually makes the same card worth more money. That is so crazy to me. TPGs have added phantom value to cards, coins and currency. Just a fact

The combination of a stack of T206 and a Dunkin Donuts coffee is a great thing.

Bunches:d

Makes me jealous, but that is one GREAT picture

I wouldn't call more value for nicer examples a phantom value. It's been that way in nearly every collecting hobby for a very long time.

Being able to quantify it and make money from that is somwhat new, but hardly something that began with TPG in any field.

And cards are primarily a demand market. Otherwise the Wagner wouldn't even be close to the most valuable card. I'm not even sure it would make the top 500.

What grading has done is to bring in a group of people who have a good deal of money, but not necessarily the time to learn all the nuances of a wide range of cards. With TPG they can feel comfortable buying certain cards without the suspicion of alterations and fakes. And that has raised values on the popular sets well beyond what they would be otherwise.
Many of the less popular/less well known sets especially postwar are actually the same or lower than they were several years ago.

Not saying that's good or bad just that it is.
Not saying those same people don't understand the history or the baseball.



And the anti-slab crowd will perhaps be happy to note that slabs while still available for stamps have largely failed to succeed. Certificates which have been around for long time (Maybe a century or more? they were preceeded by expertising marks) can now have a grade included, and that's becoming more popular.

Steve B

Steve B

What he said.

Steve, I get what your sayin', I'm not totally anti grading. I collect mostly low grade stuff and since I've been crackin' for the last few years, I can tell you with certainty that I have had a much harder time selling or trading for equal value. Oh well... It's still worth it to be able to enjoy them.

As far as fantom value, bumping a card from 4 to 6, Makes the same card sell for more money. That's cool for the seller I guess, but now the guy who buys the card will lose that "value" if he wants to crack and hold that card.

In theory most cards shouldn't ever get a bump from 4-6. Although the mid grades are probably somewhat prone to a higher portion of borderline cards.
I have a couple that might get that sort of bump or more, if they held strictly to their standards. But most cards are clearly either VG+ or EX.

That's in theory, not in reality. I know some send in till they catch a good day or more lax grader.

Of course there's always a subjective portion to it. Centering can be measured on anything with a border, but one persons VG corner is someone elses EX. And that's the place where problems come in. (I won't even start figuring out how the divide 8,9 and 10, as most of those seem very nice to me. )

Low grades don't make much sense to me slabbed, unless it's a very expensive card. I have 1 1/2 low grade T206s slabbed, one a 10, the other was a 10 , bought raw and actually shipped to me with the flip and the remains of the SGC slab. Neither are ones I sent in. I should crack out the first one, but I'm just too lazy.

I also don't think the really nice cards are overpriced. Some stuff just isn't out there in really nice condition. I'm not overly picky, but once in a while I'll go a bit more for a very nice example of a card. (Raw or slabbed)

Steve B

I love the slab... and I think that the cards do too. Many of these cards are old and worn pieces of cardboard. They are like elderly grandmas that just want to lay down and take a nap without being fondled. They are 70, 80 or even older. And all that you young whipper snappers want to do is to pull them out of their slabs for a night on the town for your own jollies, without really thinking about what they want.

The slab is like a retirement home for these old relics. These old cards have gone through the World Wars and the Depression. They've been through tornadoes, fires and floods. Some may have been through an ugly divorce or two. The slab is like heaven - just a place to relax and spend the rest of their days, unmolested.

Tony - Thats hilarious. I love putting personalities/traits with inanimate objects. I think of slabbed cards as the pissed of kid standing in the corner for something they did wrong and all they want is be freed to play with the other...but I do enjoy taking them out on a night on the town!

Grandma calls the slab her Fountain of Youth. She hasn't gotten a new wrinkle in years. ;)

sometimes I buy slabbed cuz they are cheaper. For example, there is a microscopic wrinkle or paper loss or mark that is not easily visible but the card has nice eye appeal. Thats when I crack and put into a binder!

"Collect and let collect"

Rob
:)

Today was a better day - freed 7 today.

I must have freed over 200 cards thru the years. I buy a lot of older star cards graded because it gives a reall good feeling that the card is authentic (i do look and try to figure if the slab has been tampered with before i buy), but i like to display ALL my cards from tobacco to goudey to modern cards in albums in plastic sheets, so out of their plastic womb they come.