Just a Little Concerned About This.....
 

I was a little concerned when I received this in the mail...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160783078432...84.m1439.l2649






http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...4/docu0006.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...4/docu0007.jpg

Dear mroserestoration2012,
Yeah, got the reprint you sent in a screw down holder. Seems like I'm going to have to jump through several hoops to get my money back and I'm sure this comment will be ignored by you since you blatantly took my money: I want my 180.00 left and I'll return your 10 cent reprint.
- remembering_ruth

Dear remembering_ruth,
I purchased this card several years ago and it is not a reprint. I have a card shop owner out here on the west coast that has confirmed this card as authentic. I believe him. He has been in the card business for years. I have never taken anyone's money with the intent of defrauding them. Th card you see in the pic is the pic of an identical card that he had been selling. It is exactly like the Goudy card i sold. What is wrong with a screwed down holder. Collectibles can be very expensive. Please consider purchases before you make them. Once they are made they are final. Now who is to say that you would.t take another card , that is not authentic, and report it as the one I sent. I sent the real deal
- mroserestoration2012

Gosh guys, if this is a fake, y'all might want to watch out for this seller.

This guy should get the boot right off of ebay. It doesn't get any worse than that. Except for maybe not sending anything at all.

Jeez, that's disgusting. Sorry you have to deal with this joker.

Concerned
 

I guess the card shop owner is right Its a real Dover Reprint! Says so right on the card! Wow hope you get your money back!

Why don't you point out to him that is says Dover reprint right on the card.

Wait, so did you bid on the PSA 4 on the link and that guy sent you a reprint in a screwdown?

Wow, thats brave.

Man needs to be thrown off ebay. a Stolen /borrowed photo then he sends you a reprint, that says reprint on it,a nd he says its real? UNBELIEVABLE:mad:

4 feedback on that seller, why even bid? I think you should get every penny back, including shipping. But next time look at feedback of the seller before bidding.

I didn't even notice that until Al mentioned it. The perforated edges jumped out though.

Scotty, yes, I wanted the PSA 4, and I was also wondering if anybody here owns the actual card. I'm assuming this kid stole the image.

There was no return address on the package, just the name Rose. The seller's name on the Paypal transaction: "M Rose"

_______________


The latest:

Dear mroserestoration2012,
My Ebay seller ID has 1679 positives and 0 negatives, 5/5 stars for all categories. I've been a PSA member for 13 years, and my '38 Goudey PSA graded set is more than 20% complete.
- remembering_ruth

Dear remembering_ruth,
I think your ebay rating is awesome. I sold you the right card is my point. The issue is not your ebay rating. It is the fact that I sent you exactly what I said i was going to send. I do not know why you are doing this. I have several other Goudy cards that I have sold. I have never had an issue like this before. I think you need to do your homework on the card I sent. You will find it authentic
- mroserestoration2012

The word "awesome" in his reply jumped out like the perforated edges did = young 'un. The up and comer didn't even know how to spell Goudey. He or she said I should do my homework, so I started this thread to meet his or her request.

Roger that, thanks

Since you paid with paypal hurry up and file a claim before he shifts the money out of his account. This should be a really easy battle and no hoops at all. What a stinking joke. You might want to explain this thread in your complaint and cut and paste our responses to this silly mess. Didn't I see that this item has been relisted?

Yup, stolen scan.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1938-Goudey-...42518042082979

Hmmm..."M Rose" on Paypal...seller list "Hemet, CA" on the ebay site. Uses "Awesome" in an email.....Elementary dear Watson.


http://www.mroserestoration.webs.com/

Dang, thanks David.

I noticed it was re-listed briefly after I paid and before it arrived, figured it was accidental. Nope, he or she was going to get somebody else, probably has multiple user ID's.

I opened claim opened this morning and it will include this thread. To say this site is helpful is a gross understatement.

Thanks

Holy cow! Donations?!!!! Thank you, great stuff

I guess this comment in his initial reply indicated the obvious:

"...I have never taken anyone's money with the intent of defrauding them..."

Under Creative services. Yea, creative as a thief.

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/crs/2874783872.html

What a sweet guy.

The card you received looks more like a 6 than a 4. This could be a score:)

Behave MikeU

Does anyone want to ask the folks from Storage Wars if he is authorised to use their implied endorsement? Sure looks like fan photos to me.

This guy HAS to go down. His downfall was admitting to you that he had shipped you a different card and even mentioning the screw-down holder - you didn't get what you paid for, and for that reason alone, to ebay it doesn't even matter whether or not it's real.

Still, he needs more punishment than just having to return the money.

Man, that positive feedback error really stinks!!!
We should all buy a cheap product from him and give him a negative!!!
I'll jump back off my horse now!!!

I considered doing that, but I really don't feel like dropping $20 on a Fleer Ultra Jordan.

On his website...he asks for testimonials from satisfied customers...go ahead and submit one!

Scott, I agree and will be checking with an acquaintance tomorrow. The lack of accountability with counterfeits and other scams is ridiculous, and that's just our section of ebay.

Wymers, I was focused on the stars and the comment itself, couldn't believe I didn't hit negative.

I'll send Storage Wars a message, and I'll provide his business with a customer comment.

Thanks

It was a good idea to go with the sleeveless shirts and homemade tats for the web site photos. He's claiming that he's accepting donations and that the donations will go to families in need! What a con.

Absolutely sickening.


I feel sick to my stomach after reading this and i don't even know you.

Since this was a brand new Ebay account the money should be frozen until you give him a positive feedback, so that is one good thing ebay is doing.

Got a message from Paypal saying sleeveless commented with his side of the story and that the investigation is ongoing. Must be a toughie for them. No telling what sleezeful told them.

But I wanted to mention this: I used Bill Me Later for the 1% extra ebay bucks. If you use Bill Me Later and have an issue like this, it doesn't work the same as Paypal. With regular Paypal, everything can be handled right there on the Paypal website, very convenient and easy to do. With Bill Me Later, you will have to call Paypal with the Bill Me Later information for the transaction (I called Bill Me Later only to be redirected to Paypal via phone). After explaining everything to Paypal, they assign a case number and open the case. However, the case still cannot be viewed on the Paypal website, therefore I cannot add information to the case conveniently, such as the link here. Additionally, because the Bill Me Later is in my wife's name, she has to call with the details for the case. When the case was opened, the rep she spoke to immediately acknowledged the screw down versus the PSA holder. My wife is out of town, so I sent her this to relay on the phone today (please):

Seller stole the image for his listing from item # 330696464296
Card says Dover reprint on the back
Most importantly, Link to comments by pre-war enthusiasts/experts, which covers everything: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=150269

I imagine it'll be a pain in the neck for her to relay the above information, such as the link here, and the long transaction ID/case numbers to reference what she's calling about.

Thanks Bilko. Thanks again everybody, will update y'all

Sounds like you might be dealing with the Cincinnati Cousins. Now that their Honus Wagner hasn't been selling they thought they would deal with lower end items. :rolleyes:

Hi Greg,
I hope everything works out ok for you. This guy needs to be thrown off eBay and into jail. Keep us informed.
Howard

Saw this thread and saw that the "seller" used our scan. We have this card listed on eBay at $275 Buy It Now. What can we do to help? We obviously still have this card (the real PSA 4) in our possession.

Thanks Mike. I notified Paypal last week, including the information on the scan and other information Net54 members found. Actually my wife contacted them because the account is in her name, and they said they would take the information and place in the file, adding they probably wouldn't need it though. We're waiting to hear back from them.

Thanks HBroll

Anyone -

Given that this jerk used the mail to defraud, does what he did constitute mail fraud? Can something be filed with the post office to that effect?

I received a message this morning stating the seller opened a "cancel transaction" case. Does anybody know, if I accept, will my money be refunded? I'm assuming it would.

Thanks again everybody

M.ike D.en.ero has been very generous with his time in PM's and phone calls...very appreciative of Mike.

kcohen, makes sense to me.

Bill Me Later has proven to be a horrible choice in payment method. When I click on view the details of my case, I have to click another link to the Paypal account to view the details. There are no details and no open cases according to Paypal because it was a bill me later purchase, although the dispute is through Paypal. Lesson learned.

Meanwhile, this guy is still on ebay! They know he was scamming me and that he stole Mike's image for his scam listing! Wow, what are the consequences, just that the seller may have to refund money? A seller like this has nothing to lose with this scam, and it is taking an incredibly long time to get my money back given the evidence.

The ebay listing was removed, claiming protection of the buyer. Scammer still selling...

Thanks for your interest in this auction-style listing:

160783078432 - Hank Greenberg 1938 Goudey #253 Baseball Card

We're sorry to tell you that the item isn't available for purchase anymore. We removed the listing because it likely fell into one of these three categories:

-- The listing doesn't follow eBay guidelines.
-- The item isn't allowed on eBay or can only be listed under certain conditions.
-- The listing contains pictures or words that may have violated copyright or trademark rights.

This is disappointing for everyone, but sometimes it's an action we have to take to protect you as a buyer.

Important: If you won the item and haven't paid for it yet, you don't need to complete the transaction. If you've already paid for the item, we encourage you to contact the seller to get more information about the transaction. If you don't receive the item, your purchase price plus original shipping may be covered by the eBay resolution process:

Received a message from sleeveless today:

Dear remembering_ruth,

I am attempting to cancel our transaction. I apologize for using a pic of another card that was exactly like the card I sold. I have a buyer for the card so please send me the same card in the same screwdown container. I am new to eBay and in no way was trying to be misleading. I sent you an authentic Goudy card. I did not know that the container would effect the card's authenticity. It doesn't seem to matter to my new buyer. Please let me know asap so we can resolve this issue and I can maintain my perfect eBay seller rating. Thank you

- mroserestoration2012

Having to pay for return shipping doesn't seem right at all. If I did, and because he still has an ebay account, that would confirm that there are no consequences for blatant scams on ebay. Besides, I definitely don't believe he'd refund my money either way unless forced to do so. I have until May 8 to agree to cancel, which seems like a second layer of scam.

Greg,
You should NOT agree to the cancellation request he sent. Certainly not before getting your money back. All that agreeing to the cancellation will do is allow eBay to refund the commission fees back to him. Personally, I would deny the cancellation request to be sure he gets stuck with the fees for his fraudulent transaction (technically, you'd be saying you still want to get what you paid for, which he obviously can't provide). Work with Paypal (or Paypal / Bill Me Later in this case) to get your money back. It's a sloooow process, but they are the ones with their fingers in his bank account and are far more likely to get your money back than this kid who was running a scam from the start.

If Paypal/eBay asks you to return the card to him for a refund, make sure you use tracking for the return so that you can prove when it was returned to him. If you told them it was a counterfeit card, they may not even require you to return it. Just know that on the other end of the claim, Paypal will have already frozen the funds associated with the transaction in this kid's account.

If he's trying to get you to cancel the transaction now and send the card back to him, it's only so that he can take advantage of another trusting bidder. You don't have to be in a hurry just because he is. If it's a long, painful process to get your money back through Paypal, might as well make him suffer along with you.

Postal Inspectors
 

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/

I'm not sure how involved the inspectors are in regard to eBay cases, but I would think they would be interested in this.

Rick

Lance,
I declined the cancellation and spoke to Paypal. The rep I spoke to echoed what you said, stating it is a lengthy process, and I will not have to spend my money returning a card that carries no value. She said a counterfeit and a reprint are one and the same. Thank you for the information.

Rick,

I'm in the process of checking into that. Thank you

Wanted to update y'all on this:

1. I have not been refunded

2. I receive periodic emails from Paypal ordering me to upload tracking showing that I mailed the counterfeit back. I don't even know the guy's address; the package did not have an address, just the name Rose. His Paypal has account name "Rose's." I should not have to spend my money sending this garbage back and Paypal agrees on the phone. The latest email said I have until the 21st to upload tracking or the case will be closed.

3. When I received the first few emails, I called and spoke to Paypal. They said not to worry about it, that Paypal does not require people to mail back counterfeits, etc. I found out the employee my wife spoke to at the beginning did not write down the information she provided because it was not in the case file. I found out during my second call to them, which was several weeks after, that Paypal had not opened a counterfeit case.

4. I made a note of the date and time of my most recent phone conversations.

5. I have no idea what's going on with them and have been led to believe that I should believe what they tell me.

The people answering phones at Paypal are probably paid minimum wage and don't keep the job long because of the abuse they take daily. It's not surprising that you're getting the runaround from them. Good luck..hopefully someone there actually cares that you got ripped off.

Thanks Dan,

My wife just spoke to a Paypal rep. He said tracking has to be provided today or else...

So the evidence is being returned for the next buyer ...

1 - Draw a picture of the card
2 - Make sure you use a happy face
3 - Send it with tracking.

Greg,

How did Paypal respond with where to ship if you nor they have an address on file?

What did they say when you asked how do you give a tracking number to an address you don't know?

Just curious.

r/
Frank

They told my wife that a message he sent included his address and verbally gave that address to her. I checked my messages and did not find one but it may have been an email that I moved to a folder and do not have access to. I do not know his first name and was just told first hand by Paypal that his first name was none of my business, only his account, Rose's, is my business.

My wife spoke to them several times this morning and gave them permission to speak to me lastly. The last person she spoke to said the guy basically committed a felony, which is why it took so long. I would have asked why they forced me to send evidence to a felon.

I spoke to a lady who said
- once the post office delivers it, I should get refunded
- I asked, what if they lose it, to which she said I would have to claim it with the post office, would be their fault
- I said even if, the seller is at fault, not me or the post office.
- She said his account may be monitored, to which I asked why he was allowed to sell? She said there had to be several accusations. , and I said that is why it's everywhere on ebay.

1. Stole the image for the listing
2. Advertised professionally authenticated item
3. Sent card in screw down
4. Sent reprint/counterfeit
5. No return address or first name
6. His web site bears all...

Felonbay

Greg,
Call eBay and give them the item # and tell them you want to send back the fake card. They will walk you through the listing and they will help you find his address.
A similar thing happened to me and the seller refused to give me his return address so I could send the item back and eBay walked me through the listing over the phone and I got his return address that way. I hope this helps.
Howard

Thanks guys,

It got jumbled up in my previous post, but to clarify, they did give my wife an address for Mr. No Name, which I'm assuming was his correct address today.

find out this shlub's name through a reverse address check online and post it for everybody to see. he shouldnt be able to remain anonymous.

Just tried it, doesn't show to be a good address in google maps or whitepages.com.

Greg,

So you returned a card to an address that doesn't exist. I would think with that information, Paypal would refund your money since they are the ones who gave you the address. What happens now when what you mailed can't be delivered? How long is paypal going to make you jump through hoops?

I just don't understand how paypal didn't immediately side with you since the card that was advertised by the seller belonged to someone else. So they know you couldn't have received that card regardless of what card you actually received.

Hope it all works out for you.

r/
Frank

Thanks Frank,

My wife just spoke to them again and verified the address for the third time (three separate calls throughout the day). She told the employee that the address did not seem to exist. The PP person said if he refuses it or it is a bad address I will get refunded.

I've been told during two different calls since this started that customers do not have to return counterfeit cards. Because we talk to someone different during each call, my wife asked why we had to return it and was told people always have to return no matter what.

About ready to catch a plane, would be well worth the expense.

And I doubt his name is Rose. Sleeveless yeah, Rose no.

I kept the package it came in. The postage label reads 92544, but the return zip was 92583.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...kfan/mrose.jpg

This shows up as his painting business in helmut ca, phone #951-487-5095. The zip for this address is the 92544. This address is his house, pictured at the link below

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=27070%...cbp=12,0,0,0,0

Thanks,
The address Paypal gave me is not that one

Well I'm sure it's all ok now. The guy wouldn't cheat anybody, he's a minister with his own church.

http://lightoflovechapel.webs.com/apps/members/

There is a paypal button to donate, I guess if you donate $.01 you could see if it's the same account, and prove to paypal that the address you're using is correct!

Wow! What a headache, but hang in there. I had a similar situation, but it was resolved quickly and to my satisfaction. Last month, I purchased on eBay what I assumed to be a 1934 Butterfinger Babe Ruth card/premium. When the card arrived it was an obvious counterfeit (laser printer copy). The seller did not accept returns, so I quickly opened a case and simply stated that the item was not as described, and was not a baseball card (seller only described the item as an old Babe Ruth baseball card). A few days later, eBay sent me a prepaid UPS link which I used to ship the card back. Refund was issued (by eBay) once the card arrived back at the sellers house. I did not have to incur any return shipping charges, nor did I need to know where the seller lived (it almost felt like I was using Amazon).

In your situation, I'm not sure why eBay did not do the same? Perhaps, my seller agreed to take the card back and that made things alot easier? I now feel very fortunate.

Good luck!

Lovely Day...

Great Caesar's Ghost, this guy has more scams than Madoff.

If I were to bet, I'd bet that that address, with the kid and soccer mom mini van in front, is the home of his ex wife, whom he owes child support to, going back six years. But he still visits his kid so he can pick up his mail.

Amazing. Hopefully they have law enforcement.

Iggy, I only used Paypal and was misinformed/lied to at least four times.

And Iggy, an auction with a fake Butterfinger Ruth ended within the last few days and sounds like maybe the same. His info said some sort of advertising was on the back.

And by the way, I used Bill Me Later for the last time for this, so maybe that's why the customer service was so poor. The extra 1% cash back isn't worth it.

I don't want to derail this thread but......yep, that was the same Ruth card; with the exception that he used a much better picture this time, which made it easy to tell it was a reprint. The last pic was taken from the Effiel tower. For the record, he used a different eBay-id with this second try. I never bothered with a bookmark. Hopefully, the Ruth card did not sell for much.

Anyways, I'm certain that paypal will give you a full refund once your much more sophisticated scammer gets his reprint back. The only cause for concern is the return address, somehow you really need to verify it's correct.

Lovely Day...

Thanks Iggy.
--------------------------------

Sleeveless is a minister. That's nice. Their law enforcement is likely familiar with sleeveless and company but to be sure, I'm going to give them a buzz.

You know, identity theft here in Alabama can be prosecuted in the victim's JD or in the suspect's. If something like that existed for this type crime, we likely wouldn't see as much of it. There may be something like that already

Greg,

I'm sorry this happened to you and I feel sure PayPal will give you your money back, but I don't understand why they would tell you that counterfeit cards don't have to be returned. If that were true, what would keep scammers from claiming they received a "counterfeit" card from a seller and expect their money back from PayPal without having to return the card? Makes no sense. That said, I would have drawn a moustache and some eye glasses on the card with a Sharpee and returned it like that.

David

David,

It makes absolutely no sense. Based on what Iggy said, I should have communicated with Ebay instead of Paypal. Paypal lied to us multiple times, or at least said things they didn't follow through with. Another has been added since, a male employee told my wife the day we were ordered to ship the evidence that he would forward all email communications to us, but he didn't, He also said Paypal sent a message with the seller's address on the 11th. If they did, I couldn't find it even though I'm a bit obsessive about details like that. The fact that I used bill me later may further verify that I should not have communicated solely with Paypal, and in fact, Paypal said my bill me later was a 'guest account,' which seemed to indicate it was less significant.

It looks like there's no such address for the one he provided, but their PD has a heads up on the receiver of evidence, forged instruments and such. They were surprisingly receptive.

And here's a bit of information I must have learned from TV:

He sent the card in a screw down holder, which is comprised of a smooth surface inside and out. The use of such requires specific vertical pressure, therefore what the felon did was seal his fingerprints inside the screw down. He also sealed the fingerprints on the card inside the screwed down plastic.

Further, when a person uses tape, it's almost impossible to avoid handling the sticky side, and fingerprints cling to the sticky side better than most surfaces (you may know this from taping packages). Therefore, when he placed tape on the package, which contained his fingerprints on the sticky, downward facing side, and then placed the tape downward on the package, he trapped his identifying information on the envelope.

I have several examples of his, a family member's, a co-felon's, etc fingerprints, and it's going to be interesting watching him or his acquaintance explain how they managed to appear in central Alabama. A knowledgeable friend with the proper equipment helped, which primarily included photographing the evidence with a scale, which is apparently equal to actually lifting them. The scale enabled him to resize the prints on a 1/1 scale. They're beautiful.

There have been many cases of construction workers taking advantage of the elderly and/or single women, and he's possibly been pegged for that as well. We'll see.

I'm in contact with some people there and offered to fly over there if needed and to fly back for a court appearance. I figure it's only the right thing to do, especially for all the existing and/or potential victims there.

There may be an interesting event in the next few days, will keep y'all updated.

edited to say: Or maybe sooner
Expected Delivery By:
May 22, 2012
Delivery Confirmation™

And don't forget anything that goes through the mail can involve the US Postal Inspectors. They have way more authority than some folks are aware of. Their authority is Federal so they can cross some boundaries (I think) that local law enforcement might not be able to.

ahead of schedule

Out for Delivery
May 21, 2012, 7:42 am
SAN JACINTO, CA 92583

Good luck, Greg. Based on my experience, getting claims through ebay is much better than paypal also. You would think that it would be the same since they are the same company, but it's not the case.

Yes Gary is right. Going through eBay is much easier than PayPal in my experience too. Same company but they have very different ways of handling things. Good luck Greg.

Plus there's no statute of limitations on postal crimes. In theory they could come after someone 20 years from now for misusuing a priority box....Not that they'd bother over one or two.

The stuff I learn at the stamp club:D
(We have a local PM of a large facility give a talk about some aspect of the mail once a year)

Steve B

.....Please ship the items listed as "Granted" below back to the seller. The
items should be in their original condition and you are responsible for
shipping and handling costs.

160783078432: Hank Greenberg 1938 Goudey #253 Baseball Card
Outcome: granted

Seller's address:
1486 raphael ct
san jacinto, CA 92583
United States

Once you've shipped the item(s), please log in to your PayPal account and
visit the Resolution Center to provide online tracking information for the
package.

This tracking information is necessary because it confirms that the package
was delivered.....

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...4/CD7783DC.jpg

LINK to tracking https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfi...50000387554315

The fake card returned to my mail box yesterday

My wife called and asked for ebay. They said they could not help because Paypal was working it
- ebay asked my wife for the address the felon provided and confirmed that the one linked to his ebay account was different than the one he provided as a return address.
- therefore, because they are one and the same, ebay/paypal knowingly had me spend money sending the fake card to an address that doesn't exist. Or are they the same?
- I received a message from Paypal yesterday, after the card returned, demanding we provide proof of shipping by May #### or else the case would be closed with no refund. Yes, the date was comprised of pound signs.
- I emailed pictures of the returned package, including postage marks , etc to Paypal and am waiting to hear back.

Greg:

All I can say is that situation you're in absolutely sucks. Good for you being tough about getting your money back. Not a knock or derail here, but its ironic ther is a ethical debate thread on pp/ebay at the moment. I wonder how much time their CEOs think about ethical treatment towards their dollars, I mean customers.

I sometimes think that Paypal must pick people at random to put through the ringer. :(

I know of at least one.

This week we had a car mounted bike rack fail causing damage to the customers bikes. Even though the problem was unusual, and they feel the rack may have been overoaded (It wasn't) Allen racks is covering all the repairs. And they want the broken rack back so they can improve it. The whole thing was handled personally by the owner/ceo.

And we're not even a really big shop.

Steve B

I have until the end of today to jump through their next hoop or else the felon keeps the cash. They will not accept an email with images, so the scans have to be uploaded in their resolution center. Had to call and remind them that there is no case in their resolution center because of the "guest" account. They said fax the images. From my experience, scans do not appear on the other end very well when faxed, but we'll see. The deadlines they provide for victims of felonious crimes are interesting...I took a survey a few minutes ago that will hopefully get to somebody rational over there.

Steven, I did notice that. My opinion on the ethics thing with Paypal is biased/tainted at the moment so I did not comment in that thread. I have no respect for that business at the moment.

In general, I usually view things this way: it's different to judge a company/business' ethics versus an individual's. And it's not up to one individual to monitor another individual's ethics; that's on the other individual. Get the plank out of your own eye so to speak.

How many people per year get ripped off on ebay, just in our tiny section? I've learned through this process that they supposedly have a counterfeit team, but I'm only deducting that from what I was told, which was amidst lies. I haven't been contacted by the counterfeit team. So, if they do have one, how easy would it be to pull all questionable listings? Easy IMO. But they don't; they wait for somebody outside like us to point them out. If they have one, they do nothing apparently, easy job. That's just our section. It's a haven for felons who have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Their profit percentages far exceed those of honest sellers. Nothing to lose, no accountability, no consequences...this thread proves that beyond a reasonable doubt. Who holds them accountable? Which leader in that company?

Phil did start a good topic

It's much better to just send a check and not allow them to collect fees on gifts either.

The point I made about how many people get scammed per year on ebay, and how it's overtly allowed to happen, was my attempt to agree with Steve about how the dollars are more important to them than customers. For me, this is obvious in this current ordeal.

I had a lengthy response in Phil's thread yesterday that I cancelled due to my current thinking, not sure it was how I feel in general. I've been pissed for more than a month now. I've tried to look at this objectively but still can't make sense of making me pay in money, time, hassle, etc.

Steve B, was that a Paypal related thing you mentioned?

Thanks again for all the help

The library charged 3.00 to fax three pages, so the total hassle this week is at 5.80. The felon's total spent is 0.00 and total time invested is probably five minutes since the very beginning, which is the amount of time his reply to them took. Reverand sleeveless...

I'd bet they're still not satisfied even though I gave them what they wanted again.

No, totally unrelated to Paypal or Ebay.

The post I responded to wondered about the lack of business owners who actually cared about their customers as customers. And since I had a recent experience with one who did I figured I'd mention it.

I have no doubt that Paypal/ebay is clueless and buried under convoluted "rules" they need to give the clueless minimum wage drones they hire some guidance.

And sadly while it would be more effective to set the local law and /or the postal inspectors on the seller it will also be difficult to get them interested in looking into it.

Steve B