Mickey Mantle ball
 

any opinions on authenticity? I am fairly new to this game so any opinions and help is appreciated. collecting for my 5 year old son to have these some day

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The 2nd "m" looks a little too shaky for me. Just my opinion.

100% forgery.

No good IMO. M's formation is bad

Mickey Mantle Auto Ball
 

I am always amazed how the members on this board can authenticate the autographed pieces---Here is my Mantle ball that I got years ago in person---I think it looks close to the other ball on here--but I am no expert--so I guess I will ask for opinions----thanks, Don

I actually reviewed many authentic Mantle pieces and noticed the M's here looked more pointed than his normally were... his seemed more round. Like the old saying goes if it's too good to be true it probably is.

that ball from Don does look alot like mine.. wow. somebody is good at signing that name that's for sure. I am taking it to authenticator in a few months along with some other pieces.

I wouldn't waste your cash taking the suspect ball to an authenticator. It is a known forgery style.

There are some general similarities between your ball and the one that Don posted because that's what forgers do -- try to make it look like the real deal.

Here are some key flaws in your ball: the right side of the second M flares to the right at an unnatural angle, pointy top Ms, the "tle" "falls off" the signature, and if you look closely the loops under the Ms are slowly drawn with a hint of hesitation. The loops under the Ms in Don's exemplar are as smooth as glass.

Save your money urtzie,,, the ball is fugly.
And yes, you are correct,to the untrained eye the ball from Don does look like yours in some respects.
Forgers practice their "craft", that is why so many get fooled.
It is not like you yourself picked up a pen and it would be easy to see an amateur try to forge Mantle's autograph. It does not work that way. These guys have some skill ranging from minimal to quite a bit of skill.

Don's ball is 100% authentic. Urtzie's Mantle ball isn't close to Don's.

That particular Mantle forgery with the "536 HR" inscription still makes the rounds (and gets removed) on Ebay and other websites.

Thanks for the help.... I really appreciate it!

thanks for all the help. If an item comes with JSA/PSA is that a decent guarantee that the ball is real?

Mantle
 

The "a" and "n" are way off...Trust but verify with a third party. Good Luck

I suggest you read some of the other threads on this board.

I would agree... for someone who has spent 1000's of hours looking at Mantle's...it's easy to see. He's the only guy I can do that with. I'm a one trick pony.:D

What you have there is called a "Shakey Shantle". I hope this helps.

:D:D:D:D

That being said..... about JSA/PSA mistake after horrid mistake being pointed out here. Although they are whipping boys too, I have rarely if EVER seen a Mickey Mantle with either of their certification that I have questioned. You do see them from time to time and wonder what they saw that you missed?

Let me use an Analogy for you that some like to use.....

You will almost NEVER SEE an AUTHENTIC MICKEY MANTLE with a Chris MORAL LESS Cert and you will almost NEVER SEE a FAKE with a PSA/JSA certification. I hope that helps where Mantle is concerned.

The guy I bought this ball from is guaranteeing authenticity and claims if I send it off and if fails he will refund my money. I am sending to PSA for authentication... both the Mantle and Williams. He is 100% denying fake but we shall see. I told him some knowledgeable folks don't agree. thanks for all the help and I will let you knwo where it ends up.

Mark

Will the seller also refund your authentication fees?

Mickey Mantle Autographed ball
 

This site is great---You really have some knowledgeable people on here--I was checking my Mantle ball vs the other Mantle ball on here--and do see the differences that were pointed out---I have a few other Mantle auto's and all very certified by JSA---but it is always good to see the flow of the pen with no stoppage.--Keep up the good work guys---Don

a couple hundos down the drain seems like such a waste.

Here is my Mantle. I've had it for about 8 years and purchased it before I knew ANYTHING about autographs. Now I'm nervous, Richard, would like your opinion. (ps: ball did get a psa/dna authentication a few years ago).

Nervous about what, Brandon? 100% authentic The Mick autographed baseball.

Haha well you never know anymore. Thanks Chris :D

Authenticity, Chris, is an either/or property; it is discrete, rather than continuous. Can you post an example of, say, a 35% authentic Mantle?

You're welcome, Brandon.

Now the person that owns the below Ted Williams should be nervous. It's a well-known secretarial signed Ted Williams that was sold at Todd Mueller Auctions.

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Brandon - Mickey is fine, you definitely have an authentic ball.

:D Thanks

That Williams isn't even close. People NEED TO DO RESEARCH and not rely on someones OPINION.

That is one fugly Williams.
And no I won't put up my Williams photo tonite :D.

Shelly will be disappointed...:)

But how can that be? Todd Mueller says "it's authentic." How is that possible?

Chuck (Fudd) posted the following comment:

You will almost NEVER SEE an AUTHENTIC MICKEY MANTLE with a Chris MORAL LESS Cert and you will almost NEVER SEE a FAKE with a PSA/JSA certification. I hope that helps where Mantle is concerned.

Well written, Chuck. In my opinion, if Morales actually got a Mantle correct, it would be by sheer luck. Has anyone ever seen an authentic Mickey Mantle authenticated by Chris Morales? I haven't.

Amazingly, when they ran their half-baked "sting" on JSA they were able to identify a real Mantle to send. So technically, there is at least one real Mantle with a Morales cert.

It's amazing that in all of the years that I have been looking at Morales certed autographs, that I have never seen one, that in my opinion, is authentic.

How is it possible, that I have never seen an authentic Chris Morales certed autograph. Chris Morales, who claims to have forensic training. Chris Morales, who calls himself a Forensic Investigator.

And, if my memory serves me correctly, Hollywood & Sports Memorabilia was the first client of Chris Morales when he first started authenticating sports autographs.

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When will you guys learn? You keep pretending Morales is an authenticator, albeit an inept one who keeps getting it wrong.

He is not.

He is just another part of a well-oiled scam machine. He is a thief, and a liar. Nothing more.

His only purpose is to cert forgeries, and that makes it just about impossible to find a genuine item with his CoA.

Don't you ever get tired of playing the "How could he possibly have authenticated this one?" game?

David, they won't get tired of it. It's called feigning outrage. They have to compare Morales and their preferred TPA's skills and put them in the same category so they can show that their TPA is better than Morales at 'authenticating' autographs. That's the only way their TPA can 'save the day'.

But if Morales isn't an authenticator, they can't do that.

Excellent point, Travis.

They don't like the truth.

These threads are getting old. Same conversation, different item.

Then don't read them, Scotty. Your choice.

I didn't want to disappoint Travis.

Hank Aaron forgery. Sold by Todd Mueller Autographs.

Attachment 59381

Don't worry, Chris. You never disappoint.

diversions are their only tactic. they cant get traction on a (yawn) issue that they have beat into the ground so they bring up someone else.

They didn't get heritage to do the right thing, I did, my friends did, at personal cost to boot.

They defended heritage and the authentication companies, when even heritage couldn't defend it anymore and gave in to what the collecting public really wants, truth in advertising.

Meanwhile, all collectors in the hobby will benefit by heritage changing their ways and stop claiming authentication when there was none.

haulsofshame features a purported copy of a ty cobb cut encapsulated by you know who and we are suppose to believe a 10 dollar hank aaron that is backed by a refund guarantee or a 20 dollar morales mickey mantle is suppose to get us excited.

when 1300 dollar unguaranteed ty cobbs are out there with the certification that is suppose to be the most credible and bring in the most money on the online auction sites, the traditional auctions, and the card shows.

keep showing the small stuff and let's let the big stuff with the most credible certs (in the eyes of collecting public) slide by when the xerox copies are purportedly making the rounds.

I ask the same question they ask. Just how are they authenticating these items over there at encapsulation central? I know they are suppose to be using exemplars, but when the exemplar matches the specimen in question EXACTLY, that is a problem, isn't it?

Their answer or rebuttal to all of this? - Mueller of course.


I personally like this hank aaron much better

This is a great point...however, It is important to point out the obvious for an occasional newbie that may have just found this site.

I really am starting to find itt laughable how anagonistic you are...Nobody is sticking up for third party??? Talk about being a sensitive little girl.

HERE's THE IRONIC PART OF THIS PSA WILLIE MAYS/Hank Aaron debacle CARD TRAVIS>>>><>

I AM THE ONE who sent this great example of PSA blundering stupid mistake to Steve Kocshal and AUTOGRAPH alert about 4- 5 years ago...LOLOLOLOL

put that in your pipe and smoke it Analogy Boy!!!!!:D:D:D

FUDD calls them likes he sees them, so stop with your petty stupid games already.

can we just stop at Christpher Moral less is a fraudulant criminal disgusting human being and PSA/JSA are incompetent boobs sometimes????

:D:D:D

i enjoy these type of threads tremendously and there are other threads that i find boring and repetitive, guess what? i dont read and comment in the threads i don't like;):rolleyes:

The Hank Aaron/Willie Mays autographed card is just a "mechanical error" as called in the graded card world. The wrong label went in the wrong slab. Not a big deal at all.

Of course it was a administrative QA issue. But that is not nearly as juicy as pretending that PSA actually doesn't know the difference between Aaron and Mays.

No different than pretending that Morales doesn't know exactly what he's doing.

I agree with your definition. But, people outside of the forum may not be aware of the distinction. ;)

Exactly David!!!! and Alphabets pretending that they know exactly What they are doing:D:D:D

Travis you know for the most part I agree with you regarding the alphabet boys but I recently received four baseballs to examine. Ruth-Gehrig, Mathewson ss, 1955 Dodgers and a Ruth-Gehrig-Lazzeri-Huggins. The client paid $30,000 for these four balls.
They were all decorated with shiny stickers, on each ball there was one from the seller and two from noted FDE's. All IMHO were not authentic. I checked out one of the baseballs with Brandon and he laughed at the thought that Ruth and Gehrig could have been around to sign such a modern ball.
Now the guy is out 30 grand and asking me how can he get his money back? This was a prime example of the FDE's costing someone serious money. And the sellers website is loaded with similiar examples of items priced in the thousands and all with FDE COA's.
So it is not just small stuff when we talk about who is bad here.
FDE COA's don't always equate to "small stuff."

Gee. He paid $30k for four baseballs easily worth $100k++ if genuine. And he's surprised they're not. (Not to mention he has you look at them after he's bought them.)

A fool and his money...

richard,

I am sorry if that guy got burned. I will say that i have chosen my segment of the hobby that i feel needs reformed, others have chosen theirs, I never said they were the same category, and they are not the same category.

there are 9 snow white ruth balls coming up in a big auction, almost all said they were signed in 1948. all with certs from the big 2. they will go for a huge amount. there seems to be no end to these balls that have the golden ticket to be sold at the biggest online auction or the biggest auction house in the land.

the guy who got burned for 30 grand could have gotten those balls for less than 5 grand if he would have shopped around and bought them directly from you know who auctions with the same you know who cert.

but the big 2 certs are the same high price no matter where you go.

I know a guy who wants a 2 thousand dollar autograph, he isnt willing to pay more than 500 dollars for one. I told him you will either not be able to get one, or you will buy a fake.

but the way the big certs work with some of these autograph, you can spend a ton of money and might still end up with a fake. We all know where buying some speakers out of the back of some guys van in the parking lot will get you.

but if you go into the high end store, and they sell you the good stuff, you would expect it to work and be the real deal.

I focus on one aspect, others focus on other aspects, they are not the same crusade at all. totally different. why people ask me (and demand me) to join theirs when i don't need them or ask them to join mine is beyond me. They can go buy tutti frutti ice cream and i will buy pistachio and we can all be happy.

Here is a Cobb cut that was just recently certed.

Now the same couple of guys would come on here and say "what a piece of junk" if it had a you know who cert sold through the bottom basement auction house they all like to make fun of.

But guess what? It has a JSA cert.

So now it's NOT a piece of junk I suppose?

A thick , non-detailed "cut". Where are the exemplars?

Really? You have not been asking anyone here to "join your crusade"? What then is the purpose of your anti-alphabet postings?

That Cobb is garbage. Man, this gets worse and worse every day. if reliance on Certs is THAT impt, be it from the Alphabets fde's or anyone. is there any end in sight for this?

it does get worse all the time. I always think it couldnt get any worse, then it does. wheres the exemplars for this thick, sloppy sig with no details?

i just tell the truth as it is, it is too hot for some, but i cant help that.

to inform, they can join me or not, but i don't demand or require they do like others have been requiring me to denounce this or speak out against that, or say this and that. I leave disinterested people alone when it comes to what i am concerned about the most, but there are a few who cannot and will not when it comes to what they are concerned about the most. They require loyalty oaths and of course I do not.

The Cobb is interesting and just certified a week ago or so. Im always curious were all these old vintage autographs keep popping up from and have never been certified in the past?

Other than the obvious, i guess there is a ton of really old autograph collections out there that have never seen the light of day??

You would have to think that one day most all authentic, original, vintage and pre war autos will all be certified or nearly certified that very rarely would that many more authentic autos be popping up that haven't already been seen by a 3rd party authenticator.

Its almost like the best way to buy a sig is on your own hunch alone, and maybe you have someone like Richard, Jim Stinson, who to really trust. And Travis, there can't be any exemplars for that mess of a Cobb.

I would agree, but for 1800 dollars, it can be yours.

Authentication is an unregulated industry and unfortunately over the years it seems to be getting worse and worse, not better. There is no standard rules of conduct or accepted industry standard procedures on how authentication works or is suppose to work, so sometimes you may get an autograph that has been thoroughly checked out and sometimes you might get an autograph that was authenticated 10 minutes before the sports memorabilia show ended on a sunday afternoon. Who the heck knows?

I don't think people want to know or care, most of them anyway. But it won't get better until collectors demand more from their authenticators.

A customer bill of rights would help. i am going to write up a rough draft on what this bill of rights should look like.

Hey Travis, would this Customer Bill Of Rights pertain to your buddy Todd Mueller?

Would the conduct you're referring to pertain to your buddy Todd Mueller?

Why don't people discuss the actual issues involved with this section, instead of defending the people that cert this garbage?

PSA/DNA and JSA have been getting away this garbage for way to long. The others that authenticate get reamed if they cert garbage.

I personally have always had a problem with snow white or slightly blemished balls with nice vintage autographs that that PSA/DNA and JSA cert as real. Opinion or not, there are just to many varieties that do not match, or come close.

Cleaning up means cleaning up, regardless of who gets swept out the door.

Let us agree that the problems are huge.
Whether the problems are incompetency or criminal they won't be easily solved. A Bill of Rights is an idea but without the founding fathers :) behind it I don't think it has much of a chance.
Haven't there been unsuccessful attempts at things like that before? Collector organizations, dealer organizations, etc. All to no avail.
Hopefully, there will soon be more government intervention. Hopefully, there will soon be more arrests. But even with that happening the problems won't go away. I wish I knew the answer. I wish someone knew the answer.

The owner of that seriously wants $1800 for it?
Wow,,,
Is it on the bay?

yes, its on ebay...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ty-Cobb-Sign...item4ab53ec6b3

It comes with a BEAUTIFUL screw down case, what more could anyone want?

I would agree 100% with this assessment. It's all a cluster F Period!

agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as far as authentication companies go, if one of them adopts a bill of rights to safeguard the customer, the other one(s) you would think would have to adopt it too, or else lose out. one could force another to adapt or wither.

but i would agree , its an uphill climb when the companies have exhibited absolutely no inclination to do anything of the sort.