Ty cobb autograph cut - psa/dna 9 mint
 

NO LONGER FOR SALE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE!!!

See attached image

are you aware?
 

Donovan
Are you aware of the controversy over the authenticity of this cut you are selling? As much as I don't care for the owner of the Halls of Shame site he listed it on there as being a fake?

Leon,

Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. I am currently at wars with ebay over the situation. I can tell you this much. The cut is real green ink on really old paper & it was found with a bunch of original 1930's & early 1940's Goudey cards. I personally sent the card in for PSA/DNA grading along with a 1939 Exhibits Ted Williams that I had signed at a card show in the 80's. It is not a laser copy as the author of the article has insinuated. I am seriously thinking of legal action, as this is clearly defamation of character on this author's part. I have never sold or attempted to sell a fake to anyone in all of my year's of collecting!

Donavon,

How can two autographs look exactly the same?

There are only 3 possibilities.

1. Ron K's is original, yours is a copy,

2. yours is original, and his is a copy.

3 They are both copies,


scenario 4 is impossible, They can't both be original.


did you find them personally in a cache? or did someone else and then sold or gave them to you? just interested in hearing the story on how this one came about.

Have you ever had it examined by a document examiner to determine if it is an original signature?

Travis,

I have been going through this on the website that has called it a "forgery". I purchased it from a person who had an estate of 30's & early 40's books & original Goudey cards. The Goudeys that were gradable have all been sent to PSA & none were counterfeit. I find it hard to believe that a "laser copy", as they deem it, would have indentation on the back of the paper. I am by no means an autograph expert. I can tell pixellations & lack of writing flow, but that's as far as I go. That is why the cut was sent to PSA/DNA......so the experts could authenticate or not authenticate it. As for as one or the other having to be fake, I don't necessarily agree with that either. I have two Ted Williams autos that I got in person in the 80's that are identical.

Also.....please disregard the "for sale". I will not sell this cut until this whole issue has been completely investigated & is resolved. I believe in integrity & honesty & will not sell anything of which is in question. I have emailed PSA/DNA & will be seeking a document examiner's opinion as well.

P.S.- My sincerest thanks to all from this forum who have made me aware of the website calling it a forgery & it's credibility.

---------------------------------------------------


can you remember when you bought it and when you sent it in to psa?

can you post these williams autos? if i couldnt tell those williams apart, then these cobbs would be under a whole new light.

eyeballing these two cobbs for a half hour reveals no differences in size, slant, formation at all.

these two cobbs are exactly, exactly alike, and no one can write their name exactly alike twice. because making the case that they are two different autographs would be the only way for them both to be good. but i dont see it.

if you have a good cobb, it will be revealed to be good, and bad will be bad. there are definitive ways to tell.

I'm actually out of town right now, but sure.....I can post pics of both Williams' autos when I return home in 8 days.

As for the Cobb, I have made up my mind that no matter what, I will keep the autograph for the simple reminder of this whole episode. In thirty years of collecting, I have never encountered this. It's the reason I've never sold an autograph without 3rd party authentication by PSA/DNA or JSA. I will have Joe Orlando & PSA/DNA investigate it & I will have another reputable authenticator examine it as well. One way or another, we will find out. My wife says I should frame it & deem it something quirky like "The Laser Cobb" when all is said & done.

P.S.- I bought the Cobb & the rest a couple years back & never sent the Cobb in for grading because of the charges to authenticate a Cobb signature. I had it graded during a PSA/DNA promotion in February of this year.

This has really bothered me since Leon brought it up to my attention, so I spent half of the night looking at both specimens in question. I noticed a few differences in the two autos. Would really like some others feedback.

In the so called "original" as Mr. Nash calls it, where the "T" in Ty makes an "X", going up & left from the center of the "X" there is a distinct dot where it appears the pen sat longer. There is no dot in mine. Where the "T" in Ty makes a "J", there appears to be more space in the Keurajian copy. The "X" in the Ty is again, going downward & left from the center of the "X" in the "original" the pen mark becomes immediately thinner in the "original". This does not happen in mine. In the "C" on the "original", as the "C" is coming down left to right, the "C" appears quite circular & the ink thins as it is coming down. The "C" in mine is not quite as circular at the top & does not thin as it comes down. The first "B" in Cobb on the "original"....from the very top coming down the ink gets thinner. Mine does not get thinner until closer to the "o" part of the "B". Also....look closely at both "o" parts of the first "B" in Cobb. They do not flow the same. Also.....look at the line connecting the two "B's" in both autos. The "original" gets thinner as it connects to the second "B". Mine gets thicker. Last, but not least.....look at the line under Cobb's name. There is a small hump directly under the 2nd "B" in mine & after the "Y" as well. The Keurajian copy does not have either of these small humps in the line below Cobb's name. They are very subtle, but blow up the Keurajian copy to the same size as my copy, and you will notice that this is not the same auto.

To me, they look almost EXACTLY the same, right down to the part of the T where there is a lightness in the pen. I think they r one and the same signature. That said, I can recall a dealer friend of mine years back w several Mantle balls he got IN PERSON at the show we were at, and they looked basically EXACT as well. So, I guess it IS possible. The one thing that really bugs me tho is the lightness area on the T seems IDENTICAL in both. If two diff, why would that happen in EXACTLY the same place?

Best of luck tho on a resolution for this sir.

it is exactly the same autograph, and here is proof,

on ron's cobb signature, which a high res scan is enclosed, there are a series of dots on the paper,

and on the encapsulated cobb, those same dots are on the item in the same spots, i have circled the dots. i have shown the encapsulated item with and without my circles around the dots. so the background was scanned and printed on too, not JUST the green ink of cobbs signature.

the scan and subsequent printing picked up those dots and even though they are faint, they are still there in the same spots as rons cobb signature.

so we can get that out of the way and come to the conclusion that one is a copy of the other. i didnt say which one but its not looking good for the encapsulated one.

Send it to Rich Simon and he can report back to all of us with his findings.

I think Travis' dot thing is a pretty good clincher that it is the same. wow.

I had a conversation with PSA today. They are going to re-examine the signature. I will let the experts handle this. Heresay & conspiracy theories aside, we will find out for certain.

i will want to hear what psa does if the auto is indeed bad since in the autograph world everybody is standing behind the "it's just an opinion" excuse when something goes wrong.

The experts?

Weren't they the ones that slabbed it in the first place?

It's not a conspiracy to show facts like the same marks on the same pieces.

Game over.

please report back with psa's finding, i really am interested in what they have to say, not kidding, i want to know what psa says.

I don't think I have ever heard or seen in print when PSA or JSA admit they were wrong on authenticating something that wound up being fake. Seems like they don't want that to get out that they were wrong about something. To me it would seem like the right thing to do then more people would know they do make mistakes and it does happen. But they never want to man up about being wrong when someone has proof or points it out.

Travis,

There are also other print dots on the Keurajian example that are not on mine, most notably below the line under Cobb's name. Thank you for that high resolution scan of the Keurajian example. It was very useful in comparing with the high resolution scan of mine. Again....I will let PSA/DNA examine the piece again. They are fully aware of all the information & questions on both pieces that we are. When that is done, I will have another 3rd party document expert examine it as well. I will reserve my judgement until such is done by those experts. And yes, I consider them experts though they are human & subject to human error. Considering that PSA is a very well known company & this has become a public incident I doubt very seriously they would deem it genuine twice if it is in fact not.

Donavon, send it to TTA or Morales, they for sure would say its real :D

thats cool, you should send it to them, let's see what they say.

no one has seen a high res scan of yours, its fuzzy, the holder is in the way. if you have a good crisp scan of yours, could you post it?

but c'mon, there is no way that the dots i circled could possibly be in the same spots on both by mere coincidence.

I know you want it to be a different signature, but its just not, its the same one. You have to look at the facts.

PSA doesn't have a boxing expert listed, and they asked me to be their boxing autograph consultant a couple of years ago, I ultimately chose not to, but it's not like I am out in left field here with no qualifications. I still have never seen two signature that are undistinguishable by the unaided human eye match so close like this one that are two different signatures, that is why i would love to see the two similar williams sigs you say you own. No one signs their name exactly the same way twice. And these two are exact.

Just please promise you will post the results, good , bad or otherwise on what psa says. i dont have any money riding on it, so i am not wishing it one way or the other, but i just really want to know what they say.

No thanks to TTA, Morales, Coaches Corner, Don Frangipani, Drew Max, GAI, or any other of the "authenticators" promoted by certain people. I feel alot more comfortable with the likes of PSA/DNA & JSA, regardless of how much some people attempt to defame them. Just my personal opinion.

good luck to you. i am serious.

Travis,

No one has called you unqualified & I understand your questions. I am also questioning this. That's why the cut is to be re-evaluated. However, after discussing certain things today & having a few things about both autos pointed out to me...... I believe I am right here & that more light will be shed by PSA/DNA when it is re-evaluated. Until then, I will not speculate anymore. I will gladly post what PSA/DNA results I get, as well as pictures of my two Williams' autos. I am not scheduled to return home until the 23rd, but will post those pics the next day.

P.S.- Again.....I will report whatever results PSA/DNA deems on the auto here at Net54, as I believe it is important to both myself & the hobby. No one likes fraud & no one likes to be demonized.

Just wanted to keep this thread at the top of the list, let us know when you get word back and if you get a chance to post the two williams autos, that would be great too.

travis

bump

OP says he won't be back until the weekend, so the cobb is not going to have a verdict for awhile. no need to bump this thread everyday, i'm sure he can find his own thread if he wants to update us.

well said
 

Chaddurbin,
+100:D Dont need this on the BST take it to a memorabilia post and stick a fork in it!;)

it was originally here because he wanted to sell it and he put a price on it, then he cancelled the offer once the controversy started.

Yes Travis we can all read! But it really has no place on the BST NOW since its just another controversal autograph. Take it over to the Memorabilia side and you all can beat the crap out of it over there.

he will have to move his thread over there then.

Guys,

I don't know how to move the thread. If there is a moderator that can help, I will gladly move it. It shouldn't be here anyway, as the auto will no longer be for sale regardless of the outcome. The cut will go in the mail to PSA on March 23rd, when I return home. I have already spoken to Laura Rosenburg & Jackie Curiel at PSA. Everyone at PSA is aware of the contoversy & it will be examined with scrutiny. Once they are done, I will also get a second opinion from a document examiner. Travis.....I will post those Williams' autos for you as well. ;)

did you get a chance to find those two williams that look the same. i really wanted to see them.

travis

FYI - document examiners are quite expensive.

hi donavan, did you hear back from psa yet,

could you post the williams autos?

thanks,
travis

If PSA admits to Donovon that they made a mistake they MIGHT offer him a buyback of the Cobb cut, that would require him to sign a SHUT YOUR MOUTH ABOUT THIS agreement. That would be a shame but it is possible.
We might never hear from Donovon again but I do hope that we get to the bottom of this.

Richard, you read my mind exactly,

i have a feeling we might not hear from him again.

if psa admits its not real, they might give him compensation and sign the agreement and we wont ever hear the official results.

but since he promised to tell us the results, if we don't hear from him, we will all know what not hearing from him means.

but i'll still give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I would be surprised if psa stood by their previous "authentic" determination though, very surprised.

+1
An admission from PSA is not necessary, no post from Donavon is an admission from PSA.
DONAVON - anything to add to this thread?

I don't think I have ever heard a time when the big authenticating companies ever admitted they were wrong. Guess they want to snowball everyone to think they are 100% accurate all the time. I would put more trust in a company that did admit when they were wrong cause it will happen and then everyone can learn from it instaed of hiding behind it and think your perfect all the time.

Wrong
 

Well it has happened before and was a pretty stressful time for me-- TWICE!! The first time happened around 2000-- they had "someone" working for them that thought something was indeed "real" and certed it as such for the big authenticating company. I had owned the item for several years previously before authentication COA's even were out there. When the item was put up for auction 8 years later and the original company was in fact the auction houses choice to review and slabbed it--now all of a sudden according to them- it is no longer "authentic" and they won't stand behind it as real. They then tried to hold the item hostage in exchange to get their COA back but I would not give in until a settlement was reached for their "change of opinion". After they received the COA, the President of the company called me and said they had changed their minds in deciding to mail me a compensation check for the agreed amount. However, when I indicated that I had a receipt signed by one of their employees that I had seen earlier in the day when returning the COA that the President did not know about--whoops---the tone and cooperation suddenly changed and the check was mailed out only a couple of days later. Amazing!

The other time involved a single signed baseball with their COA done by the same original authenticator that worked for them at the time. The signature was so nice-I sent it direct in the mail to them to have it graded for a small fee. It probably would have been the nicest graded signed ball in the hobby for that particular player. A couple of months went by and I heard nothing so I called them to find out what was going on. Now, all of a sudden--the same thing happens again. They did not want to return the baseball until they had their COA as it no longer might be "authentic". The settlement ended up being 12 future free COA's of items I had in my collection which I had never previously authenticated. I had it in writing before giving them their letter. What are the odds of this happening once but how about TWICE!

I have never done business with this company since nor will in the future. I have always kept this and consider it a moral victory for the little guy winning out something from the big company.

Curious if you ever sent that Gehrig postcard with two autos out for authentication and whether it came back real or fake.

PSA Better Business Bureau report
Grade B-

Additional Complaint Information:

Some complainants allege the company fails to return items sent in for authentification, and in some cases deny ever receiving the item. Other customers complain that the company fails to provide services as agreed, returning itenms without explanation as to why they are determined not to be authentic. Some complainants allege items sent are lost, misplaced, or that the company replaces the high quality items sent in, with lesser valued items before returning to the customer. A few customers complain the company misrepresented the value of cards they purchased, and found after spending considerable amounts of money, a second opinion determined the item as worthless. Most customers report they experience difficulty contacting the company to resolve problems, claiming calls are not returned, and voice-mail or e-mail messages are not answered. The company responds to some complaints by offering explanations, or by directing complainants to review their policies which are posted on the website. In cases where items are missing or lost, the company asks for proof of delivery, registered tracking numbers, copies of submission forms, check numbers used, dates checks were posted, and any other documentation that might be associated to the transaction, advising the complainant the information will be taken under review, and resolution will depend on the information provided. The company addresses some complaints regarding purchased items by advising the complainant they do not engage in the sale of sports memorabilia, and they must have confused them with another company. The company disputes most allegations, and refunds or credits are usually not issued.

If the poll is accurate, about that Cobb cut, and it is 26-2 currently, than more omelette on PSA's face.

And I can't figure out what those 2 people were thinking, either.


donovan, are you there? i wanted to see those two ted williams sig that are alike. thanks.

On 3/21 Donavon said he would post the Williams autos. on 3/23.
He also said he was mailing the Cobb to PSA on 3/23.
10 days and nothing.
What kind of scenario could we be imagining now?
Prove me wrong Donavon, let us hear from you.

It appears Donavon has proven something.

i've given up on the guy, he disappeared. if psa had stuck by their original authentication and said it was real during the re-examination, Donovan would have come on here and we wouldn't have heard the end of it. Looks like that didn't happen and he isn't saying anything for a particular reason.

I asked him for the two ted williams that look alike, and he said he would post them over a week ago. he doesnt want to do that now, because doing that means that he is available, and by not talking all together, he wants us to think he is away or not available.

Why are you guys jumping on this Donovon guy. I'm sure PSA isn't going to drop everything to look at this Cobb autograph. Heck according to Richards statement the guy was supposed to send in the Cobb to PSA on the 23rd. Ok give it a few days for mail to get to PSA now it's the 26th then figure in a weekend and today is only the 4th. So maybe PSA has had it in there possesion for a few days. PSA probably won't look at it for a couple weeks. Blame them not this Donovon guy. Maybe he didn't send it in on the 23rd maybe the 24th or 25th. What is the big impatience. PSA isn't going to admit fault if if it is fake.

exactly, they arent going to admit fault if it is a fake, not to the general public anyway, but there are going to admit its a fake to donovan himself, then they are going to structure an agreement to keep it on the down low in exchange for consideration. that is what has most likely happened, if not, let's hear from you donovan!

donovan always checked in every few days. now its a couple of weeks and no word from donovan. He is MIA, people have had better luck finding someone in the witness protection program than get a word from donovan. we have sent him PM's and emails as well as posting here and on the memorabilia forum and he hasn't even said that psa hasn't gotten word back. we havent heard anything.

He went from considering suing people who suggested it was a fake, to playing the part of howard hughes, the world renown recluse.

we all know what happened.

Keith - we are not "jumping" on Donovan. He stated some things that he has not followed through on. He stated way back when that he was going to post some signed Ted Williams photos that looked "exactly" alike, according to his analysis.
Considering how anxious he was to resolve the problem I am pretty sure he sent it to PSA on the 23rd. Considering that PSA was getting negative publicity from this item, I am pretty sure it was moved up on their calendar once it arrived at their offices.
The fact that he has not posted here nor answered any of Travis' communications would indicate that he has gone into witness protection and the strong possibility exists that we won't hear from him again.
We just would like answers, he seemed to be trying to do the right thing but now he is nowhere to be found.

Okay, conspiracy theorists. First off, I was unable to make it home on the 23rd as I was supposed to. I flew in for one week in another city for a new government class on new regulations for my industry. Then, had to come back to work early because my counterpart had a death in the family. I never made it home. I am now back at work for my normal two weeks at my workplace. PSA has the cut signature. My wife mailed it out via air mail last week. They are currently examining it, as I am told by Jackie Curiel (secretary to the president). I have no other information until their review is final. As for the Williams' pics..... I can't help you if I'm not home to take pictures. You will just have to wait another 2 weeks like I do. So.....put the pitchforks down & wait until there is actually more information to share.

Thanks,
Donavon

Autograph Threads--- The Soap Opera of the hobby

some here expect you to stop your life, quit your job, leave your wife, fly to CA with the cobb, knock down psa door, demand joe orlando to explain the cut and the 300k ruth baseballs, and report back to the board on march 24th...because that's what an honorable man of his word would do.

...anything less and psa paid you off or you're in cahoot with orlando and part of the problem...be damn with common sense and patience. the obsession is getting scary.

donovan, thanks for posting.

the pitchforks were never up, but when you said you would be around on the 23rd to put up the picture of the williams sigs, we took you at your word.

thanks for keeping us updated. keep us posted every few days.

I'm starting to see that. Forget the fact that I haven't seen my wife & kids in over a month, but hey.....PSA has the Cobb now.....thanks to my wife. LOL.

he simply said he would be around on the 23rd to post the pictures, which he didn't and he never showed up. that's not our fault. two weeks went by and nothing, so we had every right to be skeptical. He must have been visiting the land of no computers he couldn't quickly log on and tell us why the delay? we didnt expect the verdict from psa on the 23rd, but we did expect him to keep his word and show up like he promised. we didnt grab the pitchforks on the 23rd, the next day would have been fine, or the next day, or the next day, or the next day. but two more weeks go by a guy has to wonder.

I am still very interested to see what psa has to say.

That & the other posts by yourself & Mr. Simon certainly sounds like the pitchforks were out. Just saying.......

as you can read, after the 23rd, we didnt grab the pitchfords, we made many posts asking where you were, and if you could come and give us updates.

its only after two weeks went by we had every right to believe you would never show since you said you would give us an update on the 23rd when you got back.

i still would like to see the williams sigs

It will be another two weeks before I return home, but I may have some pictures of the Williams' autos from my old home. I will check & post them if so. That said......to imply that I stayed away from the board because I was "hiding" is simply wreckless. My time is needed in other areas as well, such as work, home, etc... Some of us do have lives outside of collecting. Unfortunately, I had to appease the government when I was supposed to be at home. To me, it sounds alot like the owner of the Hauls of Shame website giving out opinions on things that they have never themselves actually examined. "It's a fake. It's a laser copy, although I've never actually examined it." Travis, I know you have this vendetta against PSA, as clearly signaled by your exerpt from the aforementioned website. They do make mistakes, just as we humans often do. But they also get it right most of the time, regardless of what "Mr. Pop Goes The Weasel" has to say. By the way...... is anyone else here aware of that guy's legal troubles? He's being sued by just about everyone in the hobby, including a certain auction house CEO (that I would go to bat for any day) for over $800,000. And my integrity is questioned? What a load of b.s.!

to me it looks like the same sig. i'm hoping for OP's sake psa does the right thing here, which history tells us is about 50/50. i would not be surprised if the cert # is suddenly gone from psa database in a couple weeks...but let the process play out.

I was railing against psa LONG, LONG, LONG before I ever heard the name Peter Nash, ok? Let's make this bad Cobb autograph about him, that somehow makes the autograph real, doesn't it? It's about the autograph, and the track record of PSA is what it is. I ask some people if PSA could have possibly certed a reprint, and they say no way, but the real PSA I can't put anything past just because we know what they have done in the past, it's scary.

but for some of us, this autograph is not up in the air, it's a settled issue already. But it's okay, I am willing to put all aside and wait for the verdict, I just want to see what PSA does, because they only have two options, real or fake.

They can say it's real, which is the funnest option. They can say it's fake, which they won't do in public and apologize, they would only do it privately with an agreement most liekly, that's why the odds are we won't hear it, it will just be silence. That's why we really want to hear the verdict, because silence= you know what.

All in all, no one here, richard and myself, are critical of you personally, but when you didn't show for two weeks after you said you would, we had reason to think we wouldn't hear from you again. And we want to hear from you again.

We might be critical of PSA, but they can prove us wrong and stick to their original "authentic" decision.

We have nothing against you, we just want to know the verdict. I am sure you do too.

This was posted on 3/14 by Don. Return home = 3/22. That is why we were questioning you Don. By your own admission you were going to post the Williams photos on 3/23 and ship off the Cobb on that date. Then for 10 days we never hear from you. That is what brought up the questions. We were going by what you said in your own post.

The easier way for PSA, like I mentioned in a prior post, is to examine the Cobb, if they determine it is fake they reimburse Don. They keep the Cobb and destroy it and keep it in the database, thus admitting no error and never having to answer any questions about it.

Okay.....I finally received word from PSA/DNA on the Cobb cut signature. The cut was, in fact, deemed a forgery. After a lengthy discussion with the operations manager, it seems that there is an amazing forger out there. The cut was not a laser copy as previously speculated, but a well made forgery by someone with a very skilled hand. PSA/DNA will be sending the cut back to me to do as I wish. They will also be removing it from their authentic data base, & reimbursing me for my troubles. So.....for all the negative attention, I would have to say that PSA/DNA did their job thoroughly. No one tried to cover up anything & they corrected their mistake, unlike what some have insinuated. We as human beings make mistakes, but to be honest & correct those mistakes takes a great deal of integrity. Therefore, I am quite pleased at the way PSA has handled the situation all together. You can also rest assured that this particular cut will never again see the marketplace. Thanks to everyone, especially Leon, for making me aware of the issue & helping me to get this situation fixed.

Sincerely,
Donavon

Thank you for your response, Donovan.

Donovan,

funny how they can tell an exact copy was in a forgers hand and not cobbs?

wonder what the tell tale signals were? if it was the exact same form as the original, how do they know cobb didnt sign it?

must be a thorough forger to add those several stray dots in the same spots as was shown in ron's example.

my view.

I don't suppose we can get specifics from psa on how they came to the conclusion it was a forgery when they couldn't tell the first time. What tipped them off this time?

I am not badgering you Donovan, I am badgering PSA because this doesn't sound right to me.

If you arent doing anything with it, could you mark it forgery on the back, and loan it to me for a week so i can see it? i would be very interested in checking it out.

again, you sent it to psa, and you got your response from them, so i have nothing against you.

travis

Your welcome, Travis. And I will still post those Williams' auto pictures for you once I return home.

great. thanks, again, nothing personal, if psa screwed up the first time by giving it a cert, that is their fault, not yours.

Travis,

I do not know what their tell tale signals were. I was fooled myself, as the cut had indentation on the back of the paper, showing someone had written it. As for the print dots, I have no idea either. Mr. Keurajian's also had a couple others that mine did not, so that wasn't definitive for me either. The cut will be destroyed via flame as soon as it is returned. It will not be allowed to once again find itself in the marketplace under any circumstances. I will say this.....I believe that there was more than just PSA staff re-evaluating this cut. So.....as for me sending it......that's a big NO GO. I do not want this fake surviving in any way, shape, or form.

P.S.- It does make me wonder though, how a forgery found it's way in books from the 30's & 40's that contained authentic Goudey cards within it's pages as well.

They are human. They made a mistake. They fixed their mistake. I cannot hold ill will towards them for being human. They at least admitted & corrected that mistake. Alot of other companies would have not done that. Just saying......Even the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown once housed fakes & that was long before PSA/DNA or JSA.

Donavon - this is not a post meant to impugn you, you were told something by PSA and are repeating it here.
But I believe the forgers name is Hewlett Packard and it did a fine job. A master job , as a matter of fact.

Could you tell us what they said in more detail?

did they say it was done by hand, or does master forger mean master computer technician or master pressman?


If you mark it "forgery" on the back no one can try to pass it off as real.

It is worth a lot as a tool of education and to destroy it is shortsighted. but psa wouldn't mind if it saw the flame quickly.

How about letting someone else confirm their findings? Ron K, or Richard Simon, or me or anybody?

But if you send it to me, and i study it, then i send it back, how will it find its way into the marketplace? unless you think i am going to keep it. i assure you i wouldn't. neither would richard simon. do you not want someone else to look at it for fear of what they might find and that finding might be different than what psa said?

remember, trusting psa's re-examination has to be with a grain of salt, because they are the ones who got it wrong in the first place. how about giving someone else a chance?

Travis,

Again.....the cut will be destroyed so that it will never again surface in the marketplace.....end of discussion. It is not out of fear of something that might be discovered or anything else. I just don't want this particular cut ever to have the chance of being sold or used to produce fakes to be sold in the marketplace again. It's not about you or Mr. Simon. It's about me wanting to eliminate something that does not belong in our hobby. Too many people have been the victims of this, including myself. Before the cut was pulled from ebay, it could have been sold to 5 different offers. Any of those people could have lost their hard earned money to something that was counterfeit had I accepted their best offers before it was pulled. I don't want it to have that oppurtunity again. Sorry.

so you are saying you wouldnt trust richard simon not to try to copy it or sell it, etc.

c'mon, that excuse stinks. Wanting to quickly destroy it, only makes it sound bad that you have something to hide.

Please scan it first and send to my email a crisp, clear scan. Remember, ron's cobb is already on the internet on a good scan, so there is no fear that anyone would use a scan to copy it when ron's is already out there.

i would like to compare good scans. But if you are bent on destroying it as soon as it gets back, we can only assume there is something to hide.

You are among respected hobbyists here, no one is going to steal your fake cobb cut.

Could you elaborate on exactly what psa said regarding this master forger. surely they had a more detailed report on this autograph.

You are a victim, if you want to help others, mark it forgery and save it for future research. How is it going to get into someone else's hands if you are the owner?

Once you get it back can you take another picture of it, just to show that they did give it back.

that is a great idea, include a copy of the current days newspaper.

i don't see how that could be hard to do. i will pay for the newspaper, usa today or whatever so we can confirm that you got it back.

Why would PSA reimburse this guy and then send it back? If they're paying out for their mistake wouldn't they keep it and destroy it themselves?

And Donovan, if you do get it back I hope you will send it to Richard Simon...you can be assured he would never let that get back into the hobby.

Although I haven't commented until now, I have been keeping up with this thread. Dan, I asked the same question to Travis via PM. If PSA/DNA reimburses Donovan for the item, why would they give it back? It makes no sense. They own it at that point and you would think they wouldn't want it back on the market.

There have been other board members that have had to use PSA/DNAs buy back guarantee and I wonder if they got their item(s) back? I would love for one of them to chime in.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../BS-meter2.gif

As for the print dots, I have no idea either


Funny, most people here do

Send it to Jimmy Spence.