Mystery Lajoie Card in Legendary Auction
 

Now that the auction for this lot is over, do any of you know what this mystery Lajoie card might be?

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...x?lotid=128214

The folks at Legendary said that it measures 1 1/2 x 2 3/4.

you win it Paul?

maybe
 

Maybe a 1915 W-unc variation? Other than that maybe (I am not saying it is) something cut from some kind of ad piece.....now let me get back to bidding on the Rose- Cobby.....

I should add that the Lajoie card does look like a mfg cut...so that is a good sign...

Jeff, surprisingly I did. I thought for sure it would go to Leon.

The card looks very much like the Felix Mendelsohn proofs (only Matty, Johsnon and Schalk are known), but it is much too small.

I have (4) 1915 W-Uncs........I think it's a variation of them but that is just a guess......neat card. Congrats.

Great card... congrats! Rob must have fallen asleep. ;)

I figured Rob would win it too. I love the pose on that one. Congrats, Paul.

I was the under bidder
It depicts Nap as a Phillie so I knew Rob wouldn't be interested
Congrats on a neat pickup

I thought that was really intriguing too. Nice p/u.

my bet is that Rob stayed off of it because he is pictured in a Philly uniform and not our "beloved Clevelander's"

I don't know the image looks like that type of period but the stock doesnt look the same as the UNC set. Looks closer to the Sporting news set a bit thinner and with a more defined boarder.

James G

Agreed. The more I look at it the more I think it is different. I have seen some display pieces, I believe, that had images close to that one. I just hope, for Paul's sake, in the future we don't find a piece like I did with the 1935 Manager strip cards.....Still a neat piece but of unknown origins.

Does not show Lajoie as a Phillie but as an Athletic (1915)...otherwise, I might have bid.

Joshua

nice card
 

Actually, it shows Nap in a 1909 or earlier Cleveland uniform.

Image is the same as the c. 1915 W-Unc Lajoie but is crisper and on different stock, as noted. Of course caption is different than the other W-unc too.

Thought it was a Clev uniform too, good info!

Mystery Solved
 

This "card" was cut from a mailer sent by the Felix Mendelsohn company of Chicago to solicit advertisers for the backs of their baseball player card set of 200. I have the complete mailer, which contains a horizontal strip of six players: Nap Lajoie, Heinie Zimmerman, Grover Alexander, Johnny Evers, Eddie Collins, and Honus Wagner. The paper stock is heavy, but I don't know how it would compare to the M101-4 and M101-5 cards it is soliciting advertisers for. The printing font is apparently different, too, so perhaps this mailer was made before the set itself was produced. Under the strip, which makes up one side of the broadside when folded for mailing (the other side has lines for the address and a stamp box) is the question: "These men are better known to the majority of your prospects than Thos. Edison, Henry Ford, Sec'y Lansing, Marconi, Lord Kitchener, or Von Hindenburg. Why?") The broadside inside goes to great lengths to explain why. I'd include a picture, but don't have a scanner. I'll bring it to the Valley Forge show in June if anybody wants to see it.

By the way, what did it go for? I can't seem to access last night's results, even when logged in. Why is that?

Thanks Hank, that is great information.

wow -- thanks Hank!

$1700 plus the juice

1915 W-Unc Lajoie
 

That is very interesting Hank!

The card came from a fresh collection on the east coast that contained the Brunner's Cobb, The T-3 Proofs and many of the rare type cards in the auction. I rember looking at the card when it came in and I do believe it was on thinner paper stock then M101s as described by Hank. That being said it had a vintage cut and wear typical of what you would see on a VG card.

Hank if you could email me a copy of your brochure I would greatly appreciate it.

Once this is verifed obvioulsy the sale will be negated.

Sincerely,
Doug Allen

Hank, log in and add it to your 'watch list' - then you can go to your 'my account' page and see the final bid.

Thanks Hank.

This is curious in a couple of other respects. First, The Successful Farming promo ad I posted last month shows how you could acquire 6 free cards--the same 6 in Hank's mailer except Wagner was replaced by some guy named Joe Jackson. The Lajoie in that group, however, showed the same image as his m101 card, and bears the same font/caption except for number as the m101.
Seems Mendelsohn may have produced a "test" or "sample" set of 6 on a different sheet.

This Lajoie is clearly different. However, since the other c. 1915 W-unc also shows the same image of Lajoie, I'm wondering if Hank can provide more information on this portion of his "strip" and its caption--for example, did they spell Lajoie's first name correctly?

Thank you Hank for the information. And thank you Doug Allen for stepping up to the plate on this one. Obviously, neither one of us thought this was a cut out from an advertising flyer.

Paul

Standard Catalog
 

BTW looking back at our notes in December we made an inquiry of Bob Lemke and he was of the belief that this card would be part of the "1915 W-UNC Strip Cards" series listed on page 604 of the 2012 Standard Catalog. That being said the checklist does not match the names identified by Hank on his advertising piece.

I looked at the catalogued W-UNC card listing during the auction and decided that the Lajoie couldn't be part of that set. The caption is very different and I think the sizes are a little different too. Also, the photo quality is very different. I really thought it was one of the 2 1/4" x 4" Mendelson proofs until I found out the size was too small.

different
 

It definitely has a different look to it

than these do...

http://luckeycards.com/pwunc1915x4c.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/lajoie2.jpeg

Paul,

FWIW, the Mendelsohn "proofs" as you call them have a different font and do not use the double dash.

Doug,

While the checklist from Hank's mailer does not match up perfectly with known c. 1915 W-UNCs, four of the six are there. Perhaps the other two--Collins and Alexander--will surface. BTW, I was mistaken in my comparison of Hanks' 6 card strip to the Successful Farming Promos--the latter contain Baker instead of Collins.

Mystery NOT Solved!!!!!!!!
 

I sincerely apologize for the confusion, but it wasn't until I saw Leon's blowup of the Legendary card (which it might actually be, my original input to the contrary) that I realized that the one on my mailer strip has several minor, but obviously very significant, differences. The size, image, and type font are exactly the same. BUT--my "Napolean" is spelled differently, and instead of being in all caps has only the "N," "L," and "J" in caps. In addition, mine has no double dash after the "B" in "2nd B." One other difference is the right margin, which on mine couldn't be cut quite as widely as seen in the Legendary example without impinging into the next "card" of Zimmerman to its right. The left margin of mine could be cut to 3/8" if desired, as that is the amount of blank space to the left border of the mailer. I feel terrible about any disruption I might have caused to the Legendary auction by my inaccurate intrusion upon it, and will immediately apologize to Doug and alert him to the new information. If the buyer sees this, you have my apology also. I will get scans of my piece up without a day or so for those who might be interested to see it, to show the differences I have mentioned, and also to partly atone for my sins.
Hank

I'm the buyer, and no need to apologize. Because Legendary offered to cancel the sale immediately after your post, I felt safe. If the card turned out to be a cut out, there would be no sale, but otherwise I got a great and mysterious card. I look forward to seeing the post of your flyer.

Paul

LaJoie
 

Hank....thanks for the apology but not necessary!

Paul....now you have to pay your invoice!!

Doug, I'm happy to do it. It was going to be a real pain trying to pay only a partial invoice for the other lots I won.

Photos of Mendelsohn Mailer
 

I hope this works, first attempt at attaching pics to a post.

Dimensions:
Folded as mailed: 9&1/2" x 4&1/4"
Fully unfolded: 14" x 12"


Attachment 58697

Attachment 58698

Attachment 58699

Attachment 58700

Wow
 

What an awesome piece! Thanks for sharing.

1915 Unc. Here are some others:

Very different from this card

http://www.thetoyheaven.com/images/i...cunclajoie.jpg

Hank, do the "cards" on your strip have a blank back, or do they have part of the extensive Felix Mendelsohn advertising on the back? Thanks.

Paul

Enlightening
 

Hank,
Thanks for sharing your promotional piece. It now seems certain the card in question, as well as all/most of the W-Unc mystery cards we've seen in recent years are products of the Mendelsohn empire. Whether uncataloged card sets, remnants of advertising/promotional pieces or some sort of preproduction mockups remains to be seen, of course.

I don't think it's the same image. There is no double dash in the ad piece. There is a double dash between the position on the Legendary card. "2nd B. -- Philadelphia."

Also, the name is spelled differently on both images. Napolean vs Napoleon.

Yes, they do have the printing back, which takes up one entire side of the piece. thanks, Paul, for pointing that out. Why I didn't think of that before I shot my mouth off is beyond me, but this whole thing is making me feel dummer all the time. Well, at least it made me go to the trouble of posting the pics, which were hopefully enjoyed by a few members. Now I have a question: Someone mentioned the "Mendelsohn empire--could someone enlighten me as to the history of that company as it relates to baseball cards, and why aren't these M-101 cards called Mendelsohn's?

All of that has already been pointed out in a previous post.

One other curiosity: all the photos on my piece are the same as on the M101-4 and M101-5 cards except the Lajoie, which has an entirely different pose altogether. Another question: what is the difference between the two sets, just different years?

The M101-4 set is a slight update of the M101-5 set. The player selection is slightly different, and the numbers of most cards differ, though some cards like Ruth have the same number in both sets.

Mendelsohn was the publisher that produced both sets, along with M101-6 and an extremely rare set of three cards that I called "proofs" in an earlier post. The Standard Catalog did list all four sets as "Mendelsohns" for awhile, but is now using that name only for M101-6 and the rare set of three cards.

It does seem pretty clear that my Lajoie is related in some way to Mendelsohn. I can only guess that Mendelsohn decided at the last minute to substitute a different photo for Lajoie in the M101-4/5 sets. Why there is a card of Lajoie with the original photo is anyone's guess. It may be a prototype for a set that never was. The wear on the corners of the Lajoie looks consistent with a card stock to me, not a paper cut out -- but E107 Type 2s are apparently cut outs of some kind and they are on card stock. And there are Koester bread cards that were cut out of a very heavy card stock sheet. So I guess I don't really know for sure. But the Lajoie card sure does seem to have a very professional cut to it, not hand cut.

Paul,
My brother-in-law, who knows nothing about any of this, said immediately about the mystery of your card: "Maybe it's a salesman's sample, made around the time of the mailer campaign for their salesmen to show prospective customers." Seemed plausible. But then you'd think they'd have put a beautiful ad on the back to show what their printers could do for the customer. So who knows? But I don't think there's any doubt that your card (and it does, indeed, look like a card) and my piece are related, which connects yours directly to the M101 sets. Who doesn't love a mystery!
Hank

What are the years of the M101-4 and M101-5 sets, both 1916? And why is the update a lower number? How many different advertiser backs are known? Are there complete sets for all the back variations? And I wonder if it was known the circumstances of how the different backs came to be before my mailer explained it?

Hank, the year of issue for both sets was 1916. It is unknown why Burdick got the numbering wrong. There are 18 different advertisers, and compiling a complete set of any other than the most common three or four is nearly impossible, unless you stumble into a find where it was already assembled. Of the scarcer backs, even I were to spot you 175 of the 200 you almost certainly would never finish. No, your mailer provides the specifics of Mendelsohn's solicitation for the first time, although the fact of such solicitation was always suspected.

BTW, I believe the Lajoie image was changed so as to show him in a Philadelphia uniform--Mendelsohn was a stickler for trying to get it right, at least if he had access to an alternative image.

I wonder if the rarity of the different backs might be related to the price points laid out on the flyer:
500 sets-$2.00 each
1,250 sets--$1.50 each
2,500 sets--$1.25 each
5,000 sets--95c each

And are there any uncut sheets known? There should be if they followed through with this offer:
"So that collectors will know just what pictures and the number of pictures comprising the complete series we will furnish you in quantities according to your purchases one complete show card on which will be mounted in one display the entire set of 200 photographs."

Lastly, at the bottom of the flyer there is this:
"Special note--These two hundred pictures on one 3-ply card framed (without glass) in mahogany stained oak frame bearing your imprint, wired, ready for hanging. Picture heavily glazed. In lots of 250...$1.05 each In lots of 500...90c each."

Are they really, as it seems, offering to ship you 250 uncut and framed complete sheets for a buck each? Are any of these known to exist? If they had carried through with this, some of them would surely have survived.

There are several uncut sheets known. One of them, I am aware of, is from the first series with Thorpe on it.

Do you know if any are complete, with all 200 cards? Of course, Mendelsohn's offered displays could have been created in sections.

The 3-5 I have seen are complete at 200 cards.

I think there is at least 2 of the Lajoies floating around...
Here is an image I have of the Lajoie, I dont think its the same card as in the SGC-40 slab, there are some similar wear, but on this card there is even more wear on the edges and some other slight differences in print and dirt. sorry about the bad scan Ive had this scan for years lifted from some place I dont remember.

http://centuryoldcards.com/images/1915unclajoie.jpg

Hank, here is a link to a sheet with what might be an original frame:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ght=m101+sheet

Here are a couple of other sheets with different advertisers for M101-4.

Link 1

Link 2

It looks to me that this program by Mendelsohn was a real bust. If there's only a handful of the uncut sheets known, and no duplicates by back, it would seem that not a single advertiser took them up on their offer of 250 uncut sheets for $1.05 each. All of the three uncut sheets posted here are the framed versions, one of which was provided gratis to each advertiser, according to my solicitation mailer, and I presume there are cards known with backs of each of these advertisers for whom framed uncut sheets have surfaced. And if there are only 21 known backs, it can be assumed that this represents the total number of companies that signed up for the program at all. The minimum order for cards was 500 sets, and I'm guessing that most of the orders were for that amount. Are there some backs (Sporting News, for example) that are known to exist in significantly greater quantities than others, indicating a larger order? And the scarcity of complete sets might be explained by the stinginess of the Successful Farming offer, which required advance payment of a SEVEN YEAR subscription to get the complete set of 200 cards. One last question: before the surfacing of my mailer, was it presumed that the cards were produced by the individual advertisers themselves rather than, as it now appears, by the Mendelsohn Company?

I am far, far from an expert, but I thought that other than Sporting News, the other advertisers purchased blank backed versions of the M101-4/5, and stamped their advertising on the back of the cards themselves.

From the mailer: "At a trifling expense per set of 200 players you can obtain these photographs with your advertisement on the back of each..."

"The time to place your order with us is now so that these photographs can be printed with your advertisement and delivered in time for you to get the utmost of benefit."

"Remember, your own advertisement will appear on the back of every photograph and all photographs will be of the same quality of clear and lifelike photography as THE SAMPLE HEREWITH ENCLOSED."

So clearly Mendelsohn did the printing of the back ads and delivered them that way. And the "sample herewith enclosed might explain the Lajoie card (and others?) that have something to do with this set. Or, they might be referring to the strip of six "cards" on the mailer as the "sample herewith enclosed." Unless the mailer was intended to be sealed somehow (mine shows no indication of that, but then it was never mailed, either--perhaps coming from the Mendelsohn files themselves?) I don't see how a sample could have been enclosed, so perhaps they are referring to the strip of six on the outside of the mailer.

The sets should perhaps be renamed the M101-4 and M101-5 Mendelsohn's.

Great stuff.

Burdick, in his final edition (1960) of the ACC gave the superset of M101 the name of "Sporting News" and then went on to classify them as 1-9....He said the -4s and -5s were "Premium Cards". Us collectors gave the M101-4/5 series the "The Sporting News" name. They should really be called "Premium Cards" which would be a bit more correct imo.....AND to think, a short 15 yrs ago the backs weren't even collected too much.

Hank, there are 18 confirmed advertising backs--the three known companies with full sheets did not have advertising on the card backs. They presumably ordered these sheets and were not provided them gratis.

Yes there are varying degrees of scarcity among the card backs. Sporting News is most plentiful, as it appears to have acquired licensing rights a few months into production. I would not necessarily agree that the promotion was a bust, as 18 advertisers in 13 or 14 states shows that it reached throughout the country. The fact that Mendelsohn offered the complete set in sheet or card form to the general public probably didn't help his advertisers much.

10,000 cards as a minimum order seems about right to me. Keep in mind that just because few sets survived doesn't mean they were not out there once. For example, Morehouse Baking in Lawrence Mass, which is of medium scarcity among m101 backs, offered prizes for redemption of the complete set, and several examples of Morehouse cards bear a redemption stamp, indicating that the prize was issued and the cards returned. So some sets were indeed amassed, yet the odds are very long against completing such a set today.

Yes it was presumed (by me anyway) that the card backs were produced by Mendelsohn or his subcontractor(s), as it would seem unwieldy to take them in already cut form and then have them individually printed on the back. I suppose complete blank-backed sheets could have been ordered and then printed (not stamped) but that would have been a hassle I assume most advertisers would have wanted to avoid.

The designation "Premium" meaning a giveaway or sendaway rather than thru a direct means of distribution, I assume. Did the Burdick numbering 1-9 reflect the known backs at the time, or were they all Sporting News?

The m101 sequential numbering refers to variety of sets issued over the years 1899-1939, all of which were attributed (incorrectly) to The Sporting News. All of these identified TSN on the "cards" themselves except m101-4, m101-5 and m101-6 (m101-1, 2, 7, 8 and 9 are large supplements, m101-3 are postcards and m101-6 are larger than postcard photographs). Of these three, only m101-4 is connected to TSN.