T206Resource.com - a new T206 site
 

I received this email a few minutes ago and with the permission of the owners am posting this for them. They put a ton of work into this project and I wish them all the best with it. I am very excited for my fellow collectors and friends. LL


Hi Leon,

As you know Jim Rivera and I, along with help of Art Martineau and Brian Weisner, have been working on a new T206 website. This site will always be a work in progress but we have reached a point where we feel there is enough quality information worthy of sharing.

Though a great deal is known about the T206 set we believe we have been able to break new ground and have presented several aspects of the set in ways not seen before.
This site is a way for us to share with everyone the information and ideas a few of us have been sharing privately for some time. We hope that all collectors of the set will find something useful or of interest on the site.

In an effort to make sure no one that has helped us goes unnoticed, we have included on the site an “About Us” page. This page lists anyone that has contributed directly in some way to the site and new names will be added as additional information is shared.

Jim, Brian, Art and I would like to thank everyone that has helped with this project.

Regards,
Tim Cathey

http://t206resource.com








.
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Nicely done.

Thanks for posting this Leon. I'm headed there now.

Jantz

AMAZING site, and I don't even collect t206's!

Just briefly scanned the site, looks great. Looks like a lot of very helpful information to all T206 collectors. Nicely done to all involved.

Ahhh! Thanks! Fantastic site! Great T206 fix! Ahhh! Thanks!

Lovely Day...

Great site guys! Doesn't look like there could be anything more 206 on it. Thanks for putting it together!

Best,

Andy

Nice!
 

Very nice - very thorough. Thank you very much. I find it interesting that a link to T213-1 is included.

Rick

Great
 

Very nice work. I especially like the checklist and the article section. I've got it bookmarked.

Best regards,

Joe

Hey Tim,

First of all, thanks for the hard work and congratulations on a fine site.

I'm just starting to comb through it. There is some great new stuff--like the discovery that Crawford (Throwing) is unavailable with Sovereign 150. I also really like the Olbermann proofs page--I had never before seen a color version of the Schulte (Front View Chicago On Shirt) proof.

The thesis that the 150 subjects printed with Sovereign 150 were the "original" subjects is also interesting, although I'm not quite sure how that jibes with the fact that the Magie error was corrected before the Sovereign 150 printing.

Best,

Scot

Awesome !!
 

Looks great !! Kudos to all involved !!

T206 Resource
 

Wow great looking site guys with some interesting stuff. I am sure I will be back on a regular basis. It is obvious a lot of effort went into this site.

Zach Wheat

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

Scot - ALC did not consider the Magee a new subject but rather a correction to a current one. Also as you get deeper into the information you will see that they didn't consider same image team changes for Dahlen, Elberfeld, Browne, O'Hara, Demmitt and several others as new subjects.

We as collector's have classified them as two subjects, but the people responsible for the set treated them as updates to a current subject.

Fantastic site guys...a great contribution of information to the hobby. The Olbermann section is awesome--didn't know a lot of the info posted there.

Brian

Who should we contact about unconfirmed cards in the checklist? I have a Dick Hoblitzell Cycle 350 and a Paddy Livingstone Tolstoi.

Ronnie
 

You can send confirmations direct to admin@t206resource.com or use the Contact Us section on the site. The Contact Us page has a file upload tab so you can include scans. We do need to see good scans of the front and back in order to confirm cards.

We look forward to hearing from anyone that can confirm cards for the checklist.

Nice....

Leon - didn't want to share your Matty white cap?

Last time I looked it was there.

Just sent an email using the "contact us". Not sure if the file attach works but if it does, I guess you can only attach one file per email. Also after the email is sent and you get redirected, graphics don't load properly. I'm using Internet Explorer.

Ronnie - Thanks for the scans and for catching that glitch. It was an error with our email software that I have corrected. You can now upload four images per email and the redirect takes you back to the sites Home page.

Tim and Jim (et al.),

Great site! Thanks for all of the hard work that went into providing such a valuable resource for the T206 collector. I know I will go to it a lot!

Hopefully the scans of my Billy Sullivan SC 150 Fac. 25 that I sent from the "Contact Us" page made it to you so that the appropriate checklist can be updated.

Tom - Thank you for the confirmation. The scan was received and the checklist has been updated.

Impressive work and effort! Thank you for sharing this authoritative information with the hobby!

Hi Tim and company- want to say this is a beautiful site, and congratulations to all the hard work that went into it. And thank you for including the article Judd Hamlin and I wrote way back in 1995. In those days we knew woefully little about the set. Today, the amount of additional information available is staggering; things collectors know casually were not imagined by us in those pre-internet days. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to add something to your site down the road.

Regards,
Barry

Barry,

So true. The 'pre-internet days'.... Now information like this is everywhere. It's great that people can still contribute 'new' information 100 years later.

Tim(and others)

Nice site. Well set up.

Congratulations to everyone involved in putting together a great site! The Olbermann proofs section was a very interesting read!

t206
 

Congrats to everyone who helped put in the work for this site. Very well done with lots of info to be found all in one place. What I wouldn't give to have that that Collins proof

Very impressive site! Thanks to Tim & Jim and all that contributed. I've got a number of T206's, but I'm still very much in the dark about details and this should help me as a go to place for info.

Barry - We were very pleased to receive permission to reproduce the VCBC articles. Even though much has been learned about the set since some of the articles were written, they still contain great information and are enjoyable to read. If you're ever interested I would love to talk to you about doing something for the site.

T206 Resource
 

Congrats Guys!!!

WELL worth the wait.....

thanks for the treatment.....i felt vip the whole time.....:D

Tim,
get my number from Jim and holla sometime.....great work guys:D

Peace

V

The site looks great! Thank you for all the hard work you put into it. It definitely raises the hobby understanding of the set to a new level.
JimB

Art, Brian and myself have wanted and talked about creating this site for years.

With Tim's knowledge and talent T206 Resource is a reality.

Thanks to all who contributed, especially Rob D.

Superb job! It's very thorough and designed very well...thank you!

Absolutely incredible !!!!
 

I completely love this new site !!! I want to thank Tim, Jim, and everyone else who contributed in making this site and all of the wonderful information you guys provided to us all. The name is very fitting, this is an awesome resource for beginers as well as an excellent point of reference for veteran collectors.

I am so stoked over this, and very appreciative of the project overall- thank you !!!

Sincerely, Clayton

Re: T206Resource.com
 

I was happy to contribute and glad to see the website is well received. Many thanks to those who worked so hard to get this information together. Enjoy the site!
Art Martineau

No ebay rover links?
No t206 displays for sale?
No banners for a network of junk "livetocollect" websites?

I'm in!!

Hi Guys,

Please take your time and read through the site, as I think Jim and Tim have done an incredible job of explaining how the “T206 set” was printed and distributed. They discovered an easy way of explaining the set in the actual “print groups” which no one thought of before…. While many of us have tracked cards for decades, and identified several patterns and even specific subsets, no one has put the entire set together like Tim and Jim. I won’t go into all of the reasons to create the site, but I will say, that we all felt that the T206 Museum should not be the “go to site” for the T206 set….

Be well Brian

Hi Tim,

I very much like the breakout checklists by back--that was much needed.

I noticed that you have described the blank back as "not distributed" but have made no similar notation regarding Brown Old Mill Southern. Have you confirmed a factory cut Brown OMS?

Scot

Hi Scot,

Thanks for your question. I know we make mention of the brown Old Mills only being hand cut several places on the site, but let me know if there is somewhere we aren't clear. And to answer your question, no we have never seen a factory cut brown Old Mill.

The following are a couple of excerpts from the site:

Back Scarcity Page
^Old Mill (SL) – Brown & Blank Back
These two backs were not inserted into packs, and both are essentially printers scrap. Some might not consider these necessary for a complete back run, but because of their scarcity and ties to the set, they will remain highly prized by many collectors.

Back Advertisements Page
These cards are printers scrap, were not issued in packs and are all hand-cut.

Print Group 6 Page
These cards essentially were printers scrap and never factory cut or distributed in packages.

Again, please let me know if there is somewhere we weren't clear regarding the brown Old Mills and we'll add the necessary text.

Absolutely amazing site
 

Thank you for making this possible!

Scot - I think I figured out the place on the site in question. On the "Backs" page all of the cards printed factory numbers, including the brown Old Mill, are referenced with the exception of the blank back which said "Not Distributed." I changed the blank back description to say "No Factory" so there isn't a conflict.

Let me know if this was it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Hi Tim,
Yeah, "not distributed" was the source of my confusion. I like the change you made to "no factory". Again, kudos to you, Jim and the others on the site.
Scot

Great site guys!

Guys - great site. Thanks for all the hard work that yoiu put into it. What a great resource for the hobby.

A fantastic site, thanks to all who made it happen!

Nicety...
 

Tremendous site guys ! Thank you for your contributions !!

Great site ! Thanks for all the hard work on this.

I have one question: If I'm at an estate sale and they would have an unopened cigarette pack, how would I know if any baseball cards could be it in ?

Is this information on the site ? Any markings etc I would need to look for.

Thanks

awesome site guys, congrats to all involved!

We have not put any information regarding the packaging onto the site yet, but we will be in the near future.

The tax stamp on the pack will be the first thing you will look for. This information would tell you if the pack in question could include a baseball card. For more information on how to read the tax stamp Click Here

Once you understand how to date the pack you will know if it falls within the time frame that T206's were inserted into that brand.

Keep in mind that ATC inserted other non sport cards during the time period T206's were produced, like birds and fish, into the same brands as baseball cards.

There are several boards members that have a great deal of knowledge on this subject.

Okay guys, great site - and i've barely worked through part of it. Like Barry, i might be interested in contributing. Congrats!

Very well organized and executed, guys!!

Great article section I look forward to more in the future.Thanks for the hard work put in to all involved.

First off congratulations !! If the Ty Cobb back wasn't included in the back run I would've been very dissapointed but it was and is ! Will be an awesome work in progress that will never be complete, again congrats and thank you to all the people who worked and added contributions to this !!

Quite a cool site, well done....and, very user-friendly.
 

Tim

A couple of comments......

(1)....Regarding your SOVEREIGN 350-Only checklist, you indicate that Bresnahan (batting) and Downey (fielding) as "confirmed".

Not so !

My research shows that these two subjects are SOVEREIGN 350 "No-Prints".


(2)....I'm quite skeptical of your claim that Crawford (throwing) "was not printed with a SOVEREIGN 150 back". My experience in
completing a SOVEREIGN 402-card set (and since, going for a Master set) indicates that 12 (perhaps more) SOVEREIGN 150/350
subjects were Short-Printed with respect to their SOVEREIGN 150 backs.

For example, the majority of the Wiltse (portrait, no cap) cards are found with the SOVEREIGN 350 back. The SOVEREIGN 150 card
of this subject is rare enough that the SGC pop reports indicate that NONE have been graded. It took me about 5 years to acquire
this one......

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/awiltsesov150sov350.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bwiltsesov150sov350.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


Furthermore, Brian Weisner has already identified a Crawford (throwing) with a SOVEREIGN 150 back in Bill Brown's super-set spreadsheet.

Check it out ?


Regards,

TED Z

As told
 

As I told the owners of the site I would un-sticky this today, I have done so. I wish them all the best and hope to contribute more info in the future.

Hi Ted,
The entry on the Super Set is not correct... I own a 350 Sovereign Crawford:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...n2010001-4.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...n2010002-7.jpg

Be well Brian

Thanks Brian
 

I own a SOVEREIGN 350 Crawford, too.

I have been hunting for a 150 for 6 years now. When I recently found the Wiltse 150 (above scan) after 5 years,
it gave me hope that the Crawford 150 would eventually surface.

What does Art Martineau say on this subject ?


Merry Christmas to you, old friend.

TED Z

Re: T206 Resource.com
 

Hello Ted,
I began working on my T206 Detroit master set in the mid 1970's. Collecting was much slower in those years, but with the internet boom it became easier in the last 15+ years.
In over 30 years of looking I have never seen the T206 Crawford, throwing pose, with the Sovereign 150 back. While I will still search, the no-print lists make me believe this card will not surface with Sovereign 150.

Again, thanks to all who are enjoying the new website.
Art Martineau

Hi Art
 

Thanks for the response. While I will continue to search for this Crawford 150, too.......I think you have
pretty well convinced me that it is a No-Print.

Thanks again. And I haven't forgotten that I still owe you a dinner regarding my "A-B-C-COUPON-D" bet.

Will you be at Baltimore this Summer ?


TED Z

Art: How many Detroit Tigers have you confirmed ? The site indicated 321 different Detroit cards confirmed and 71 possible but not yet confirmed. I was interested in that I'm trying to compile the ultimate Detroit checklist. thanks Mike

Re: T206 Resource.com
 

I have confirmed 330 T206 Detroit front/back combinations (including 10 blank backs). My confirmed list is only cards that I have personally seen.
Art

site
 

A very helpful site with much erudition. Thank you.
Since taming the Monster a few years back, i've spent some time seeking original photos which serves as the bases for various cards---not limited to
T206 since I've become a ravenous type collector. I appreciate very much
your photo gallery but was hoping for a bit of a narrative of the photos offered---date,photographer,etc. Is this something you're planning to do or
is the task outside your purview or did I just miss it somehow given my ancient computer skills.
best,
barry

Hi Barry - That's a great idea and something I'm sure we'll consider. Ultimately if there is any information about the set, including information about the photos, we would like to provide as much as possible for those that may be interested. At this early stage in gathering and loading the photos, we have only included the images themselves.

There are many collectors and researches that have a greater focus on one aspect of the set than most. As they continue to contribute their knowledge to the site we will be able to expand the amount of detail about each topic.

Thank you for the suggestion.

T206 Site
 

I worked a double today and had a few hours of down time this evening. Spent quite awhile looking at the site. Really nice job, great info, easy to navigate. Congrats on a job (labor of love) well done. Ralph

Photo addition
 

Hi Tim

Henry Yee sold this photo last week on Ebay. I agree with Barry, it would be nice if you could add the specs to the photos someday. Nice website!

Clark Griffith Carl Horner c.1903

Jantz

First and foremost, you guys have done well putting together that site. Many collectors, in years to come, will benefit from that. Thank you.

In looking in the "About Us" section, I see a list of Senior Contributors and another list of Contributors. I looked through there to see if Ted Zanidakis was listed. He's not. And I can envision that he didn't actually contribute to the site. But certainly the site has benefited from, and realistically has used material that should be attributed to Ted, to Scot Reader, to Barry Arnold, and to Lew Lipset, just to name a few. Those guys did some great work on ferreting out the nuances of the white border tobacco cards. And their efforts and work product that was so graciously shared with collectors deserves recognition. Maybe an additional section should be added to the "About Us" section that was styled Acknowledgements, or something like that.

Please consider that.

And thanks again.

Frank - Thanks for your comments.

First let me say, the information on the site concerning the composition of the set, checklists and other research, is the work of the people listed on the About Us page.

The group of us working on the site have great respect for Richard Egan, Lew Lipset, Bill Hietman and many others that have advanced the hobbies knowledge of the T206 set. We have talked about adding a section on the website devoted to just this topic, but it just hasn't happened yet. There is a lot of content people would like to see on the site and we're working all the time to add new material to cover as much possible, but it's going to take time. We are listening and appreciate the feedback.

The "About Us" page is specific to T206Resource.com. When we began the project this page was created because we didn't want there to be any question who was putting out the information. As more content was added, and people began sharing their information and collections, we thought it would be a nice way to say thank you for their contributions to the site. In a few rare instances within the site itself we mention contributors by name, otherwise everyone receives the same acknowledgment whether they share a little or a lot. We believe that this shows the community nature of the site and how when collectors work together it can benefit us all.

We appreciate all of the hard work by those that have come before us, and look forward to the work ahead.

Again thank you Frank and everyone else for your comments.

Hey Tim.

I see you added Bill Heitman and Richard Egan to the names I mentioned. I agree with their inclusion in some Acknowledgements section. I overlooked them; as I did Jamie Hull and Bill Brown. There are others. And while these guys didn't "contribute" to T206resource, nonetheless their work created a body of information that was a major starting point for you guys. Golly, how many of us have wondered about how much money Scot Reader would have made if he'd sold that great tome of his, rather than throw it out there free. (Thanks, again, Scot!!) My thinking is that some 21st century collector will find that fine site, realize how great it is, and have no idea of those that went before.

Thanks.

Wish all of you safe Holidays.

Frank

Frank,

Bill and Scot both, albeit small, have mentions within the text of the site already. Like I said before we will be chronicling more of the history of the sets researchers as time goes on but it's going to take time to get everything on the site.

We want to cover publications which will include many of the names already mentioned as well as Mark Peavy and others. Rather than just have a list of random names we want to discuss their contributions in some detail.

I know this may not be evident on the surface but none of the previous great work on the sets composition was the bases for ours. We didn't use anyone elses findings as a starting point. We went back to the beginning, cleaned the slate completely, and started with just the confirmed cards and the sets documentation and took a fresh look. This is what allowed us to see the set in a completely new way.

Frank, I appreciate your concern about the recognition of, and respect for, the pioneers of this great set and I assure you they will get their proper due on the site in time.

Have a safe and happy holiday as well.

Tim

You're right, it's not evident. For example, you have a Super Prints checklist. That term is Scot Reader's creation; evidently you must have started with your 'clean slate' and then arrived at the same term he coined after he had discovered them. T206 isn't a 'clean slate' term...

I just think that the longer that site goes without acknowledgements then the greater the time for some collector who doesn't know any different to find the site and think you guys created all of that from a clean slate. Even if some of the site organizers have gotten crossways with those folks in times past, they still deserve recognition. And the lack of acknowledgements detracts from the veracity and credibility of the site. Which is a shame, because you guys have put together a pretty good thing, there. I'm impressed with it. And as cantankerous as I am that is not something easily done. You guys aren't as ornery as me... so get to work on some Acknowledgements, posthaste, please Sir.

PLAGIARISM..........
The act of "stealing" a person's hard work and intellectual property, without accrediting this person.

There are many more members of Net54 that you have advertently dismissed, who have contributed their time, effort and expertise over
the past 8 years (or more) on this forum. You can continue to deny that you have not gleaned information from them to form your new
site....but Tim, that "dog does not hunt"....anymore.

There is Scot Reader, Bill Brown, Barry Sloate, Barry Arnold, Frank Wakefield, Jamie Hull, Dan Koochin, Darren Duet, Drew Apoldite, Judson
Hamlin, Jeremy Jones (and more). All of whom, not only have posted meaningful & worthwhile information regarding T206's; but also, other
White-Bordered cards.

Special recognition goes to Scot Reader. For you to exclude Scot's "Inside T206" in the "ARTICLES" section of your site is a really egregious
omission that tells us a lot about where you are coming from.


Furthermore
You claim that your data is yours (and your group's)......however, in your SOVEREIGN 350 checklist you indicate that Downey (fielding) is a
confirmed SOVEREIGN 350 card. Well, when I posted my "FYI....SOVEREIGN" thread, I had inadvertently omitted this subject in my NO-PRINT
list (it has since been added to my NO-PRINT list).

Now tell me....anyone here on Net54....what is the probability of Tim independently replicating this same mistake ?

Virtually impossible......unless Tim (or one of his group) copied my information on these SOVEREIGN 350 cards ? ?


I am continuing to review your checklists. I have found some more errors. You asked for inputs. I have already reported 2 of these errors
to you in an earlier post in this thread. You chose not to respond and that says a lot for your attitude regarding some of us Net54er's.
Who, apparently, you feel that you are "competing" with since you joined this forum (not that many years ago)..


So, right here I am offering.....$100 each.....to any one who can produce these two SOVEREIGN 350 cards that you list as confirmed......

Bresnahan (batting)

Downey (fielding)


TED Z

site
 

Please accept the following comments in the spirit of collegiality that is intended. As one who has spent his life in the academic world, I do think that it is a mistake to omit those who have been part of the history of research before your distinguished offerings. I recognize that effort has been made in this direction but needs further work. As you well know, I'm sure, there is a never a blank slate in pure scholarship---the highest accomplishments never arise in vacuo--- so that acknowledging those who have been important to the debate(even those with whom you may have disagreed or parted ways with for critical reasons) is a must. This should always be done as assiduously and comprehensively as possible to match the breadth and depth of what you're now offering as a scholarly contribution.
I used the word 'erudition' to describe your work in an earlier post because I
believe it is scholarly and academic. I do think the omission of key contributors in the history of research, as explicated above, should be revisited and further elucidated.
Again, I do appreciate your erudite gifts to the the field of T206 scholarship
and hope that my discussion is helpful.
all the best,
Barry

PLAGIARISM?

Ted, no disrespect but you have taken information shared with you from folks including me and posted it here as your own or with no mention of sources short of a select few folks for years. I would be careful dropping the plagiarism bomb…people in glass houses you know.

I’m also not going to get into heated debate with you on this either. But if you look back I’m sure you can think of times when you have used someone’s nugget of info when typing out your threads without taking time to mention or call credit to that person for the piece of info re shared.

I think we all can a be a bit guilty of that after all it’s a hobby in which much of the knowledge is word of mouth vs. written.

As for prints and no-prints within Sovereign I’ll let you Tim & Jim hash that out.

John

P.S. To the rest of the guys Barry, Frank, Ted etc. these guys spent a lot of time on this so in the 11th hour begin busting chops on some names you feel they need to add is silly IMO. In the end it's their site they could have as easily listed no names like Chans site. I'm also not taking this stance because my name is listed Tim & Jim can drop my name I could care less still a good site. All I care about is collecting cards having fun and no scammers.

So.. How's the weather? It is raining here in Baltimore.

It's always sunny in Philadelphia Dan, thanks for asking. :)

Merry Christmas everyone.

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to you Mike! Is Healer really your last name or is that your profession? I may need your services. Dan.

It's a testament to the quality of the site that people are so anxious to get their names up there. C'mon guys, let's just let the site develop a little bit, add corrections/contributions when they can and just let it brew and steep.

A few weeks ago this site didn't exist. Now everyone is fighting over what should and shouldn't be on there. Nothing on the internet is gospel. I think any person surfing the internet realizes that the work of a website is based on the experiences and information of the authors. THERE IS ALWAYS A POINT OF VIEW.

I disagree with the fact that everyone is a rube, and when presented with misinformation or fact, doesn't know which is right and which is wrong. People make up their own minds and aren't so easily swayed by a website. To assume that everyone takes every morsel from a website to be gospel and not the work of humans is really putting yourself on a much higher plane than everyone else.

This is a general statement but one just meant to say, let's enjoy the hobby, let the authors of this website develop at their own pace and filter and sift the information as they wish. It is theirs to do as they wish.

If you want to start a T206ResourceHaters.com, I'm sure the name is available (for a fee).

I really have to second this point. This site was put together by these people and can choose the content and contributors they feel are warranted. This is a great resource and it didn't take long to get attacked here. Enjoy the site for what it is. you can always start your own and put your own contributors.

That being said, great site guys & Happy Holidays to all,

Lee