Authentic or Fake? You be the judge
 

I am being offered this signature, which is authenticated. It just doesn't look very Kosher to me. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance...

Not sure this passes PSA or JSA...FWIW

If I read correctly...
"This item was signed in the presence of an Autograph Certification Experts representative..."

So how long has this company been in business? I don't think Ruth has been signing the last few years.

I think Priddy got it in person when he was a little boy. Even I didn't realize that Priddy was that old..

Hahaha!!!

not liking it myself..... The "r" isn't loopy enough.

Two words, two shades. Suggests a halftime break.

The loop in the first leg of the R, looks slowly written.

Good luck with it.

You guys are the best! Thanks

Joe & Steve nailed it, that R in Ruth looks terrible.

-

In my opinion, it looks like a ham sandwich with a side order of bacon.

Mr. Priddy (ACE), are you serious?

Attachment 44036

Attachment 44037

Maybe they meant it was priddy bad?:D

hmmm ....then I doubt it's Kosher? :cool:

If I am not mistaken, isn't that the way Mrs. Babe Ruth signed her R's when she was signing for him in 1948?

Ruth Signature
 

This signature looks bad to me as well. As for the signed in presence on his LOA I think he just made a typo from one of his letters that he would give out for an autograph he witnessed being signed. Here is an example of a dead on Ruth that Justin did for us that a customer walked into a show and he authenticated on site.

R
 

The "R" looks more like it should in this letter but this is the most forged signature out there. The hand writing does help to compair with the letters in his signature.

Another beauty authenticated by ACE.

Attachment 44074

In a world dominated by PSA/DNA and JSA, having anything authenticated by someone else would prove perhaps that it was shown to the previous two, and it failed.

Oh man on those Jeters. Keep up the good work Justin!

DanC

Frank, do you really feel that the Babe Ruth you posted (the one authenticated by ACE) is authentic?

Frank, have you considered submitting it to PSA? If that passes PSA that is a $20,000 item.

I have asked 5 other highly regarded autograph people for their opinion on the Ruth,, so far two have responded,, they both think it is fake.
I am still waiting for the others to get back to me.
I will post the results,whatever they are, as soon as I get them.
A third person has responded to my request about this Ruth and he also thinks it is bad.
And if you count David Atkatz, whom I did not ask,that is four very knowledgable people who do not like that Babe Ruth.

Awful Babe Ruth. Slowly drawn.

Does he employ anyone else, as the name of his company would suggest so as "Experts" as it's usually one lonely man in a chair.

See him in White Plains next week!

DanC

IMHO, Frank, that Ruth note is a fake.

Frank, it is staggering to me that Justin would "authenticate" that Babe Ruth written note and even more staggering that he (Justin Priddy, ACE) continues to "authenticate" those Derek Jeter type forgeries.

It says it was signed "in the presence of". How could it be bad? ;)

Randall, I'm referring to the Babe Ruth that Frank posted, not the one that started this thread. Both of them are awful.

I've sent it to JSA for review ,,, i'll post results when i get it back. Funny as it may sound but ACE is the go to guy at Tri Star shows. Thats where the Ruth was purchased,,, IMHO I think it's good. FYI , JSA was at the show but only jimmy jr. was there. I've been searching for another source for some time that the public accepts ,,,, and i've used Mike Frost recently P.A.A.S. I know we could all list the many mistakes of the 2 leading companies but the world of preception wins ,,, if they say good then it must be real. After the last Pawn Star Show > Al Pacino Goof --- hard to look at those 2 companies the same. THE PISSING CONTEST CURRENTLY between PSA and JSA is a cause for major concern ,,,, it's a shame were forced by EBAY TO ONLY USE THOSE TWO. If anyone can share anthore company the the public accepts please post > Im sure we all have horror stories it's time to help each other.

This authentication business really has become a joke. People truly enjoy jumping on an authenticator when they FEEL as though that person made a mistake. It's also great that almost everyone on this thread has mocked PSA and jsa, but then turn around and ask why dont I submit the item to PSA or jsa. It truly sickens me that people really buy loa's on the name of the company. I have a huge file of mistakes by PSA and jsa in my office.

If ACE wants to build its reputation these are high profile signatures that need to be identified correctly.

So now were using the law of large #'s - how would u feel if u were unlucky perc. - between the 2 companies over 20 mil autographs cert. at best lets use the 80 - 20 rule ,,, that means 1.6 million are bad. Have u seen the Mike Schmidt goof ,,,,, on Fox news --- we are getting different results on 4 companies > we are so affraid of the backlash that i purshased insurance from MARSH - MCLEANAN - to cover my companies ass. PAS and JSA are swiching employees - and we found PSA selling Joe D and Mickey baseballs in Virgina - Marco Rol show and myself and another dealer called them out on it. Get over it ,,,, if Jim sr. just happen to be taken out of the picture suddenly would all of still be running to JSA.

Become?

But Frank you constantly complain here about PSA and JSA and yet you use JSA over and over.
You post here old news about the Mike Schmidt goof of JSA but you use him over and over.
At least be true to your word and don't be a hypocrite.
If I felt that the NY Times was an anti-Semitic newspaper I would stop buying it.
I stay true to my beliefs, always. Even if it costs me money, I stick to my beliefs.
If you think the big two are bad for the hobby then stop using them or else stay a hypocrite.
Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words and so far you are only words.
And that Ruth is a piece of junk.
Ruth is "dead on" Frank? Dead on?
And please do post the JSA results when you get them. We will all be waiting.
My money is on a turndown,,, any takers?
In the interests of full disclosure, a few months ago, Mr Prisco used my services to examine a handful of autographs.
However, he seems to prefer the services of Mr. Priddy.

There's a big difference between PSA and JSA, and some of the other "authenticators." Sure, PSA and JSA make loads of mistakes, but they are honest mistakes; a number of people working for them just ain't that good. But I don't think anyone here would accuse them of knowingly vetting garbage. Then you have guys like Morales and Priddy, and quite a few others, who never met a signature they didn't approve of. They don't make mistakes, because they don't really offer an opinion. They sell certificates, plain and simple. Step right up, pay the fee, get a cert. Contract fulfilled.

No one who has seen and handled a dozen or so genuine Ruths, and has more than a passing acquaintance with holography would think for a second that that Ruth note is genuine.

Yeah but they sure do know how to advertise.

Sure, PSA and JSA make loads of mistakes, but they are honest mistakes; a number of people working for them just ain't that good. There can't be LOADS of honset mistakes.

Would agree, but ignorance is no excuse. In my real life --- Insurance and Law they take away your licence and remove your practice , Just as they should for many in this field. I cant tell u how many autographs ive purchased from our members that have failed both companies. Which is it - are they good or bad , or really just another answer.
Richard you are correct > over the last 2 months we have sent very little out and have ove 400 items that I would normally have gotten cert'ed. I removed our current EBAY store , and will reopen a corp. one that is only for cert'ed photographs. For our insurance we are required to supply a forensic answer on each item and NO we don't use Moralas. As i stated before i'd rather look for answer's to help all involved. I've met Justin Priddy and have seen him over the last 2 years at the JP ROCK SOLID SHOW - I gave him a handful of items for a test run - at the same time I gave P.A.A.S. aprox. 30 - 40 items on a test run. Each company has treated me fairly and I don't think they are just saying YES they have turned down as many as they have passed almost the same perct. as the big 2 ,,, but we continue our search for an add. company that we feel is a good fit for us. It's difficult to find someone with credentials that are published and not just a company who hires people and signs off on those sigs.

Surprised you would remove your ebay store Frank.
Never heard anyone actually do that.
But you do admit that I was right, but I don't know what you were referring to in my prior post, as being right.
Was I right about you being a hypocrite?
Was I right about the Ruth being a piece of junk?
Was I right about me examining some items for you?
Were you testing me when you sent me items like you tested Priddy and Frost?
I saved all of those items on my computer and just looked at them again, and I know my opinions on them were correct.

ebay and the dealers and auction houses that use them.
But ebay only recommends them, there is a misconception out there that you must use them to post an autograph on ebay.
THAT IS TOTALLY UNTRUE.

By the way - ive used a few of the so called PROCLAIMED experts on the forum for certs and they have all failed PSA and JSA 21 items - which we have a file on,,, and for note I had an ABBOTT and COSTELLO signed photo that these forum experts failed ,,, gave it to Justin and he passed it ,, but knew i couldn't realize my price so gave it to JSA and passed - sold it and my buyer and he gave it to PSA passed and was just auctioned off for 18k. The Forum experts told me it was so bad that it looks like a forgery. For accurcey I sold it for 3k ,,,, looks like the jokes on me ,,,, but my point is the auction buyer paid up for the cert ,,,, Richard I don't prefer anyone and I don't ask anyone to pass any item I give them as u know. i'm only looking for the correct answer. I 2 have 25 years of collecting exp. but don't feel it's right for me just to give my company cert and also sell the item > that's a conflict of interest for me > others may think differently. And it's foolish just to say 100% Guarn. return policy - because it's all up to the eyes that view it. For those who do shows were all miffed at the 10 second OK or the QP online --- u can't tell unless the item is in front u and I mean for more then 10 seconds.

Justin Priddy ACE Babe Ruth
 

Does Justin actually look at this stuff?

Attachment 44209

Frank, your post is very hard to decipher.
You seem to be saying that forum experts failed some of your items and then those items were passed by PSA and JSA.
Is that what you are saying? Your meaning is very unclear.
What experts are you talking about?
Are you referring to me?
Are you referring to Kevin Keating?
Are you referring to Reese Yawkley?
If you are I would greatly appreciate seeing those certs you got from PSA or JSA.
I did not examine an Abbott and Costello for you but I know the picture you are referring to.
I would be curious where it sold for $18K because I would like to start sending my Hollywood stuff to an auction company that can get $18K for an Abbott and Costello signed photo.
And you say you are only looking for the correct answer. Well between using PSA, JSA, ACE, myself, Mike Frost, Yawkley and Keating how do you know who is giving you the correct answer when opinions conflict because you submit items to several authenticators in your search for the right answer.

Sorry Justin but my opinion and your opinion differ on that Ruth.

Looks like it's only the correct answer if someone says the autograph is good and you can realize a return on your investment. :rolleyes:

i'm not on here to trash people - but i've sent the same items to at 3 experts and try and determine my own thoughts since i'm the one concerned for my clients and my company. and I will not post any failures that JSA or PSA passed ,,,, and u seem to know more then I do Richard. For the record - My trust is at the highest level for many of u,,, and that includes everyone u mentioned - but it's my decision not to let anyone cert my items that also sell,, and I said thats mine and my biz partners decision. And the auction house was Leg. at the national. Also, for the record I would give Kevin Keating any item as he was our choice but his certs say buy and sell. And it's my belief no one knows more about odd sig. then Rhys Yeakley and both guys I would trust with anything > that said > dosen't mean the public knows them. And Richard I have no regrets selling anything u would cert. Understand everyone is playing on a different playing field because of perception because of size of company and advertising. I'm more concerned with the correct answer that I can sell. And i'm not in the biz of bashing. A forum or meeting any place would be great. Rhys texted me letting me know about the Abbott and Costello - I agree somethings sounds crazy.

Mike - thats what i'm trying to stop. I'd rather ripe up the item then search for a yes - and YES i'm spending alot of time and money until i'm satisfied with the product i sell. I'm looking for constant anwers on a perc. i can live with as well my insurance coverage.

And I never said ACE was the answer. But I know he's not a bad guy. May fall into the not good enough.

Is it ACE or ICE (I Cert Everything)?


Attachment 44212

Attachment 44213

Ahhh... The old light table rears its head.

You are correct Richard, a seller can post any autograph on eBay. But, eBay will take PSA or JSA's opinion over anyone else's in regard to the item in question, and if the item has a cert from someone, even you Richard, and PSA/DNA's QO states it is bad, eBay will remove it.

Also, if you have a number of item's that PSA/DNA's QO doesn't like over time, then eBay will remove your account from their website.

So, in a back door sort of way, PSA and JSA are eBay's lap dogs.

But ebay only recommends them, there is a misconception out there that you must use them to post an autograph on ebay.
THAT IS TOTALLY UNTRUE

Nice find Chris,,, I think I know who actually signed that sheet.

Justin Priddy ACE Lou Gehrig
 

Here's another one I found. It's a hand-written letter from Lou Gehrig authenticated by ACE (Justin Priddy).

Check out the "S" in Sincerely and the "L" in Lou. They are identical.

Attachment 44241

Attachment 44242

Nice light table copy of a Gehrig letter that sold, IINM, in the Halper auction. Made, I'm sure, by the same guy who did the Ruth note.

Keep 'em comin'.

Why all the secrets, Richard?

You (Frank) have 13 different cut signatures of Christy Mathewson in your store, all authenticated by Justin Priddy.

http://www.piedmontsport.com/store2/...s.html?cat=146

How did you get so many? Isn't that....I don't know, a lot?

You have 42 different Babe Ruth autographs, all authenticated by Justin Priddy (or whatever AMA is, isn't that mixed martial arts?).

http://www.piedmontsport.com/store2/...ml?cat=144&p=1

Wow, Dan! Just looked at the website. Almost as good as Coach's!

Well if I had actual physical proof I would be happy to announce the name to the world.
But sometimes you just know things.

Justin Priddy ACE Christy Mathewson
 

Here is just one of those Christy cuts certed by Justin Priddy (ACE).

Attachment 44259

Attachment 44260

It's time someone said it.

Frank, your stuff is garbage, and I'm sure you know it. How can you justify selling it?

Frank, don't you get at all suspicious when all of these Babe Ruth cuts and hand-signed notes, Christy Mathewson cuts, and Lou Gehrig cuts and hand-signed notes get offered to you?

Does it make you wonder why the person offering you these rare items didn't go directly to PSA or JSA to get them certed instead of selling to you "wholesale?"

If they have an authentic Babe Ruth hand-written and hand-signed note (valued at between 15K and 20K) why would they sell it to you "wholesale?"

And thirteen (13) Christy Mathewson cut autographs???!!! Christy Mathewson passed away in October 1925. There is not much out there in the way of signatures from Matty.

Yeah, Frank, you are a dealer of apparently considerable hobby experience. Its odd, w all the Ruths and Mattys. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, its prob a piece of duck ****.

Oh, and that Matty autograph Note. Nice COA, says "signed NOT", not Note. haha. Well, its NOT his signature.

Oh, and wy do all these notes and things Im seeing posted on this thread look similar in handwriting style? And Im FAR FROM a handwriting expert. ;)

I will remove these items from my store and show them to JSA to get their opinion

Same handwritng on all these items?? Is that what you are implying Ghost ?? :):).
You should be catching this stuff Frank, before you spend your money sending it to ACE, I mean 13 Christy Mathewson autographs??
Just walked into the store??

Justin Priddy, ACE, either doesn't have a clue about autographs (his business!!!), or, "he knows exactly what he is doing."

Oh, come on, Frank. Do you really expect the "I was duped" bullshit to play?

Ditto!!!!

No one gets "duped" into purchasing 13 Christy Mathewson cut signatures and over 40 Babe Ruth cut signatures.

David - this will be my last post on this ,,,, I,ve recently sold 3 Matty's autographs all cert'd by ACE and aution'd another one off at Mile high arox. 6 months ago that makes 4,,, all these auto's passed the big 2 ,,, so i'm not stupid - and and not playing the dupe card - i will take whatever action i think is correct. And I will face Justin eyeball to eyeball -

Bullshit, Frank. Let's see even one "big 2" CoA for one of those garbage Matty cuts.
(And I don't think you're stupid, Frank. I think you're a crook.)

Let me make sure that my math is correct here.

Do you mean that in addition to the thirteen (13) Christy Mathewson cut signatures that you had listed on your website, that you sold four (4) other Christy Mathewson cut signatures elsewhere?

That's a total of seventeen (17) Christy Mathewson cut signatures. That's what I call "the mother lode."

Wow! When I first posted this thread, I was just hoping to not get ripped off with the Ruth piece. I truly never intended for it to blow up the way that it did. I appreciate everyone's input in helping me to not get burned, but I didn't want any friendships to spoil over this. I believe that we all do this as a hobby...for fun. I'm sure that we all have very stressful jobs and that these recreational activities and hobbies are meant to build friendships and act as "de-stressers".

That being said, if anyone on this forum, or any other is INTENTIONALLY posting or selling items that they know are not authentic, then they deserve what they get. I don't know anyone personally on this board and I'd like to think that ignorance sometimes gets the best of all of us.

I'm new to Net54 and it is wonderful and I love to share stories, experiences, etc... with people that are just as passionate as I am when it comes to this wonderful hobby. Let's keep it light boys, otherwise we should just stay at work!

Holy schmoley, Batman!! The hobby is suddenly raining Matty sigs....
Who wouldda guessed?? :eek: Moesalty, I'm trying to keep it light!

BAM! POW! WHAM! Scott u da man!

David, you have to stop pussyfooting around and tell people what you really think.

Sundance Kid: What I'm saying is, if you want to go, I won't stop you. But the minute you start to whine or make a nuisance, I don't care where we are, I'm dumping you flat.
Butch Cassidy: Don't sugarcoat it like that, Kid. Tell her straight.

I don't think this seller is stupid. He has been in the business, what 25 years. You would know better and understand exactly how tough it is to obtain even one Christy Mathewson and to have quantities that all look identical?

But why would he come here and expose himself like this unless he honestly didn't know and even expose ACE for what they are. Great thread!

What is the light test?

Larry

I may have to reevaluate my assessment. He may be stupid.
And a crook, too.

Moesalty, this thread wouldn't have gotten this long and detailed if Frank hadn't posted a photograph of his Babe Ruth signed note authenticated by ACE (Justin Priddy). That was the gas on the flames.

Can you link to the Mile High Auction? Six months isn't that long ago. It should still be cached.

Man, I sure wish I was the winning bidder on that one....