This sums it up about Jeter and 3000
 

Wow
 

Thanks for posting. Makes me ill thinking about the reported student loan debt that the HR-catcher has to cover. I realize that at 23, he is a grown man and that it was his choice, but i hope he has no regrets.

Watch your money-go-round; watch your money-go-round
They got it wrapped up tight, they got it safe and sound
Watch your money-go-round; watch your money-go-round
As you fall from grace and hit the ground

Too much money in too few places
Only puts a smile on particular faces
Said too much power in not enough hands
Makes me think "get rich quick; take all I can"

--Paul Weller

Now I understand why The Captain snubbed the All Star Game. He's exhausted from counting his money.

Is this a great country, or what?

Mr. Steiner certainly thinks so.

My 30-something dentist said he had a $750,000 student load debt when he graduated. But, don't worry, last time I saw him he had it down to $500,000.

Jeter signed 1000 items in 90 minutes? Man, he's a fast puppy...

Foolish people worship the wrong things.

There is only one person that truly should be worshipped, and he will be back sometime to prove it.

That does "Sum it all up."

Damn straight. ELVIS, Where are you!

Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Foolish people worship the wrong things.

There is only one person that truly should be worshipped, and he will be back sometime to prove it.

naw; Andy Kaufman.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kcOTI4pJWf...snap-81385.png

Bruce Dorskind

He said one person.

touche

What a "classy" guy. Must be hard to be so ascetic.

Even worse...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...sct=mlb_t2_a14

Grab on to that fast moving money train...
 

Boy, the room is starting to get crowded. How can I make money on DJ3k? Everybody start lining up!! :p

This thread really surprises me.

First of all, doesn't anyone see this as the social phenomenon that it is? The people are starved for an athlete that they can support who has not and is unlikely to let them down because of off-field behavior.

Second, this is a memorabilia board. To see people on a memorabilia board -- including someone who actually charges money to authenticate autographs (http://richardsimonsports.com/authentication.htm) -- chiding the collecting public and those who rise to the excessive demand in the market, is ironic to say the least.

Since when has monetizing baseball memorabilia been equated with the Devil, or being un-American?

Pathetic.

Not to pick a fight with anybody else, but thank you.

Seems Jeter's only crimes in all of this was getting his 3000th hit out of the field of play, making more money then most of us (as if that's relevant), and not studying the auction memorabilia market before having the nuts to hit a ball to a guy with a big heart and a student loan.

Sheesh... couldn't Price at least "play hard to get"?

I wonder if Branca was signing balls "I gave up The Shot" less than a week later?

;)

That's simply Steiner's thing. He waits for something grand to occur and then he makes a deal. How many people purchased signatures of that Big Brown jockey with anticipation of getting the Triple crown? He was charging like $99 then and now, you can't get $5 for them.

TMZ just did video where Jeter was going to his helicopter and there was one guy with a baseball waiting for him and he asked Jeter to sign the ball and Jeter walked right by him.

I have met Jeter twice and he blew me off as well.

And Coach's Corner consignors and these eBayers have no issues getting quantities of Jeter, bypassing the Steiner brand? How do they do it, truthisoutthere, how? :-)

DanC

That's right. If poor, ignorant Derek had only known the ball was valuable he'd a done right by the fan.
After making numerous multimillion dollar deals with Steiner, selling crap memorabilia, how was he to know that the actual artifact of his 3k hit was worth a few bucks.

Gimme a break.

I'm new here, but I'm sure I saw a rule about no "fairytale nonsense" sort of posts. Or politics.

Uh... How much money over his career do you think Branca made off of that? Do you begrudge him a single penny?

Why do you call it crap memorabilia?

Jeter is a wealthy man. He does not need to be peddling over-priced Steiner crap. It is crap because all of Steiner's memorabilia is grossly over-priced and the man will do anything for a dollar. Just because people in the hobby will pay for some of the items he peddles, doesn't mean he should be producing them. Everyone has ethics. I cannot imagine dealing with him. Every year I go to Spring Training and I listen to Jeter and other stars on the Yankees talk about how much they can't stand the dealers, who are "dirtbags" desperate for autographs so they can sell them. Ten minutes later Jeter's in the clubhouse signing baseballs for Steiner. But that's different because HE gets paid.

If this was truly a special moment for Jeter and the culmination of his career, why was his first priority to sign baseballs for Steiner? If Jeter was a nice guy, he wouldn't have a deal with Steiner to begin with. And he wouldn't be taking baseballs from the hands of children and signing the side panel because he "can't" sign the sweetspot. A classy guy would have told the man who caught the ball to keep it like Roger Maris did.

My view is that there is $X available in the market for Jeter stuff. I do not think Jeter should apologize for taking a major percentage of that. If people want to pay $50 for a DJ3K Hat, like I did at the game last Saturday, that's their prerogative. Steiner is a mechanism for making sure athletes get the biggest share of the market value of their items. When Jeter signs for free -- and in my life, he has done that for me about a half dozen times at Yankee Stadium and spring training -- he gets nothing for it. That is called leakage.

What you are essentially saying is that you want free things, and that the truly rich should accept more leakage. It is that component of this argument that I find extremely hypocritical, particularly among a group of people on a baseball memorabilia board.

By the way, paid $250 for a Jeter 3000 ticket stub today on eBay (t-206collector). It has his image, unlike my two which have Arod. The person who profited was a ticket speculator. Jeter got nada from that sale. Just something to think about.

Jeter gets to play baseball for a living. He is only able to do that because people will come out to the games. So yes, I do expect that a player can write his name for me in exchange for the millions of dollars he gets, which he will receive whether or not he is even playing (see Albert Belle). And I do feel as though I am entitled to free autographs. Do you disagree? Steiner is charging $599 for a Derek Jeter autographed baseball. My question is: why? And how can you justify this pricetag to a child? I don't think you can explain "leakage" to a 10 year old.

I'm having trouble following your argument. You think Derek should profit from eBay sales too? And every signature he ever signs? Why? And how exactly does a player get nothing for signing an autograph? Lifelong admiration, a job playing big league baseball, the support of an entire city; maybe players should pay to play. What am I getting out of the deal?

Steiner is charging what the market will bear for a signed ball. What other industry requires you to dilute your brand by giving away freebies? The only sense of entitlement I see is yours.

Do you think Jeter can walk down the street in Manhattan without being stopped a zillion times per block? How many people should he stop for? Only the ones who are quick enough to video him at the time?

I explain the business of baseball to my six year old. I show him my T206 signed Walter Johnson, and my Jeter stuff. It's all cool to him. He will not grow up thinking he is entitled to free stuff from those better off than him.

I edited my initial post. It is not an issue of getting something free from a person better off than me. It is an issue of mutual respect and appreciation. There are always going to be dealers and there will always be collectors. As a collector, I don't see getting an autograph from a player as expecting something for nothing from a rich person.

Have you ever paid for an autograph?

We are talking about different things. I will agree to disagree.

FUNNY!! :p

Leakage? I hope most of these guys have not gotten so jaded or insular that they regard each gratis autograph they give to be potential lost revenue.

Leakage!? Are you nuts?

Amazing. Every single Babe Ruth-signed ball, photo, scrap of paper, etc.--and there are hundreds of thousands of 'em--every damn one, is leakage. The man did nothing but leak.

If $20 million/year + endorsements aren't enough for a guy to sign every damn autograph he's stopped for in the street, than f%#k him.

One more thing. Better think a bit before spending big bucks on the 3k game stub. You better believe if demand is great enough the Yankees will reprint them.

And yeah, a cap commemorating the big hit is, indeed, "crap memorabilia."

I bet some people are buying this stuff thinking that it's a good investment.

What do you collect? And who do you think you are to judge my awesome collection of DJ3K memorabilia?

Hey, everyone, this guy thinks he has the right to call what people collect "crap." Real nice guy, this one.

Of course they haven't. But when dealers send kids into line to get free autographs that they can sell, that would be part of the issue.

There isn't a thing Steiner sells that ain't crap. And if, by saying that, I've offended your sense of "collecting tolerance," so be it.

So what if they are? Are they idiots for collecting modern stuff, any more than we're idiots for collecting stuff of deadballers? Who knows what will sell in the future? And just keep in mind, that the guy who sold me his ticket, bought it for $100 two days ago, before they started going crazy on eBay. Now the kind of ticket I bought for $250 this morning is up over $300 tonight. That's a pretty good investment, if only in the short term.

You guys spend so much time talking about whether kids today are going to be tomorrow's collectors. DJ3K is the kind of modern event that grows the spirit of all of our collections. Don't ignore that because the marketing is better today, or because Jeter is a once in a lifetime, Mickey Mantle-esque sports icon.

If you really think the modern ballplayer has to stop and sign every piece of paper that is shoved in front of him on the street, or in a restaurant while he is eating with his family, then you understand little about the perils of modern celebrity.

There isn't a thing Steiner sells that ain't crap. And if, by saying that, I've offended your sense of "collecting tolerance," so be it.

You haven't offended me at all. I've never bought a single Steiner thing in my life, which might explain why I didn't get one of those funny Steiner emails so many of you are complaining about.

I just want everyone at home reading this post to understand that you think it is appropriate to call my decision to purchase a DJ3K hat at Yankee Stadium just moments after he hit that home run "crap."

I'm still waiting to hear what kind of uber-investment, non-crap you collect.

Oooh... the perils of modern celebrity. Actually having to give something back to the people who make your absurd lifestyle possible.

Poor, poor, Derek. He can't walk down a street without being asked for an autograph. It's so much easier to sit down at the Stadium, sign some photos and balls for an hour, and collect the check from Steiner.

Can you name a single baseball player who gives more back to the community than Derek Jeter? The closest I am aware of is Cal Ripken, but he's retired now.

Signing for Steiner is only a portion of his business model. Signing for fans for free is customary for him. The "absurd lifestyle" is not without it's drawbacks. You understand that, right? You may choose to look down upon celebrities, and assume they have it easier than you, but I accept the fact that they are human beings who get stalked and threatened kind of all the time.

Before Steiner, athletes saw all of their signed items turning up for sale in hobby stores and eBay. Dealers and other businesses made huge dollars and the athletes got zilch. You may think their salaries make it so they shouldn't care about that, but that's pretty naive. If Hans Lobert could've monetized his signature before becoming basically bankrupt at the end of his life, don't you think that would have been nice? Are we drawing the line at Jeter because he's a millionaire many times over? What about Ramiro Pena? Is it okay for him to make a little extra money on his signature because his cup of coffee may be over at any minute?

Isn't it ridiculous to think Vincent Van Gogh died penniless, but now his paintings are priceless?

Jeter deserves every cent he can get, and if you want to demonize him for taking a dollar away from the small-time dealer, or turning down the occasional autograph, so be it.

You completely misunderstand. I didn't call your decision to buy that cap "crap"; it's the cap itself that is garbage. As are all manufactured in the millions and put away by everyone that buys them "collectibles."

I've posted many pictures of items in my collection. If you're really interested, you'll have no trouble finding them.

nevermind

Jeter deserves every cent he can get? Really? Why?

Yeah. As I said before, the man did nothing but leak. I guess he just had a different "business model."

To me, that is a damn shame.

Yeah. A real shame. But ya know what? He died beloved. And rich, too.

Nobody was making money off of his items at the time and leaving him without anything. Autographs weren't a business back then. I am sorry you do not seem to appreciate that it is today, or the positive impact thatbthe modern business has on your historic crap, which I choose not to go find on my own.

I understand that selling your own autograph to kids is a business. I understand it just fine. But you're right. I don't appreciate it.

For me it is simple. If you work for a living, you should be paid based on the demand for your services. If you are Julia Roberts and the movie company will pay you $25m for your next starring role, I do not think she should turn it down because it is too much money.

Supply and demand are really simple concepts. I use the word "deserve" in that context; as opposed to the teachers and firefighters who "deserve" more money for plying their crafts, but don't get it because the demand for their services cannot keep up with the supply.

I think where we disagree is in our point of view towards autographs. You see them purely as a business. I do not. I see them as a natural part of the game in most scenarios. If you go to a show where a player is charging money, that is an entirely different situation than going to the ballpark or spring training to get a few autographs. I don't think asking a player for his autograph has anything to do with business or mooching from a rich person for most of the people asking. I expect a player to stop and sign for fans. Whether or not he signs for me specifically.

No. You don't turn it down. But neither do you refuse to sign autographs for the fans who actually pay that $25M, in order to sell them, instead.

Ask the kids who get their Steiner Jeter3K balls under the Christmas Tree this year if they appreciate it. Would you prefer that the working parents chase Jeter onto his next helicopter to give their son such a present? Or can we just send $500 to a service to provide it to me overnight?

If I want to get my mom a Paul O'Neill autographed 8x10, is it okay for me to pay Paul's service? Or do I have to run into him randomly on the street corner? Hope I have my photo with me when that happens!

are yesterday's athletes permitted to sign autographs at card shows for money, or is that also a breach of their dignity?

Do you just drop what you're doing always? Do you have an obligation to make public viewings? Can Derek go to a Mall and buy jeans without signing and posing with everyone who asks him? Have you ever had a conversation with a celebrity about how hard it really is to just do normal things, only to realize how much about your normal life you actually take for granted?

Why can't you just mail Paul a photo, with a SASE, and he signs it and mails it back, without charging $50 or so. That used to be the "business model," when I was growing up. It was called "giving something back."

I agree, to a degree. Jeter himself has stopped and signed for me for free at least three times that I can remember: while working out with Posada at the Indians old home on Winter Lakes, FL; while stretching before a game at the old stadium; and, while entering the press gate at the old stadium. I've personally witnessed him sign about a zillion things for free for fans over th years. If you had a bad experience, it happens. If I knew you better I'd tell you my Tony Gwynn story when we were both staying at the same hotel back in 1998.

When Paul's auto became valuable, he grew skeptical of signing freebies in the mail, only to find them for sale at $50 a pop at the local card show or on eBay. The collecting public ruined that practice, not the athletes.

I don't know where you live, but here in NYC one sees "celebrities" on the street every day. And, for the most part, they are left completely unbothered. And when they are bothered, yes, it's their obligation to be gracious about it. I know one or two "celebrities" personally, and, believe me, their lives aren't nearly as hard as you seem to think.

Fellas,

I rally enjoy this dialogue, but I have to get to sleep here on the East Coast. In closing for now, I would just say that in my view a lot of the vitriol spouted at athletes these days ignores a few fundamental and universal concepts that go with the territory in the 21st C. It is just unfair to blame that all on the athletes.

I live in NY as well. Yankee players like Jeter are more plagued by the streetwalkers than, say, a movie star, many of whom live in NYc because they don't get harassed typically. I think you'd agree that Jeter walking down 5th avenue would get stopped constantly.

Really? Paul didn't have enough money? He had to be upset that he wasn't making that $50? He couldn't just live with the fact that he had done the right thing? That's called greed. Consider our system of justice. You know, "Better ten guilty men go free, than one innocent man be punished." It's kinda like that. Yeah, some will take advantage of Paul's "generosity," and make a few bucks. But that's better than cutting off all those fans who just want their hero's autograph.

No. I don't agree. And "streetwalkers" are not usually hanging out on 5th Ave.

Unfortunately the perception, real or perceived, is that virtually every autograph that was being given for free was being sold rather quickly. Of course, players still sign for fans for free anyway, but it really shouldn't surprise anyone that the players got tired of seeing their autographs routinely selling without realizing any cut of that.

Also, last point before bed, Steiner certifies autographs. In a world marred by fraud, at least when you pay big bucks, you know you're getting the genuine article.

Goodnight!

Ha, yes, I meant pedestrians and tourists.

I am not going to jump into this argument, I just want to thank T206 for posting a link to my website.

You're quite welcome. Be careful not to get too successful in your authentication business, lest you succumb to the foibles of greed and soullessness.

As most everyone here knows I buy and sell autographs and authentication is not my main business,,,but again, thanks for the plug.
And fyi, my rates are MUCH lower than the big 2.
I don't think I have succumbed to greed and I think the people that know me, know that very well.

If you think I was suggesting that, you miss my point. Steiner's main business is selling autographs, too. You may disagree with his business model, but it is hard to gripe with his success.

That is true.
Millions of dollars for selling dirt,,, how can you argue with that?
(I am referring to Yankee Stadium dirt, not calling his merchandise dirt).

Like that idiot Poland Springs guy who sells water. Who would buy water if they can get it for free?

Wow this was quite the read. I understand both sides and think it all has become bordering on insanity. Our cultures appetite to be close to those bigger than life figures has always been around but with todays technology the superstars get no relief. I watched the documentary 'Teenage Paparazzo' and was kind of surprised to see how every moment of many peoples lives is constantly documented with video and photo, they literally have no private life. An interesting twist was when director Adrian Grenier decided to flip the switch and turned the cameras on the Paparazzo to understand where they are coming from and they got very upset, covered their faces, yelled, ran away, didn't want to talk, threatened harm, ect ect. They wanted privacy and to be left alone but yet make their living off of the exact same thing.
It's easy to say that because someone is making all this money they should stop and sign or talk to everyone that approaches them but what if it was you ? What if you were in a hurry, or had a headache, or bad mood, or were just so sick of everyone who saw you running up to you asking for something ? Then you know half the people just want to sell what you gave them anyways so what is the point, how do you tell who is a fan and who isn't, and if you sign for everyone will you ever get anything done ? But if you sit down and sign for a few hours in a controlled environment and get X amount of dollars so be it.
Society created the monster that feeds the greed, but the ones we worship have to live in it and deal with it, no matter how much money they make not sure what price some peace and privacy is worth.

+1

I don't think the people who are put off by the situation with Jeter are saying that they should get something for nothing or that athletes owe them something for free. I think their comments reflect a growing frustration with the attitude that is prevalent in our culture, which is take all you can grab in every context at all times, give nothing back, and damn everyone else. I don't think it is wrong for Jeter (or anyone else) to charge for autographs at a show, through mail order, etc.--it is a service rendered and if it is overpriced or unwanted, don't buy it--but I do think it is wrong when the prevalent view among athletes becomes that an unpaid autograph is something to be frowned upon, wheither you call it a freebie, brand dilution, leakage, etc. It is called "public relations" and at the right time and place is part of being in the entertainment industry. As a public person/celebrity who earns millions trading on the goodwill of the public as a product endorser, one of the things Jeter accepts as part of the deal is the duty [yes, it is a duty] to do right by the people who support him. I find it appalling when a ballplayer refuses to sign for a fan (unless the situation is very, very inappropriate, like in a bathroom), especially when the justification is that the fan might sell the item. If an athlete makes millions playing baseball and endorsing products that he expects kids to purchase based on his endorsements, guess what, the athletes is a role model and with that privilege comes responsibility. One of the reasons I have gone from a rabid fan who had season tickets to a person who rarely watches the game and never attends is the attitude towards the fans exhibited by players and management. Not wanting to be taken advantage of goes both ways.

Some athletes and celebrities get it. Around 1978 I was at brunch in Woodland Hills with my family and Steve Garvey and his family were in the restaurant too. At that time Garvey was the golden boy in LA; MVP/All Star, pennant winning teams, etc. A line of kids stacked up at his table. He said hello to each kid who had the nerve to approach him and signed for each one of them when he could easily have said no. I hated the Dodgers at the time (Yankees fan) and wasn't even interested in meeting him but I appreciated the effort he made. Manny Pacquiao, who has way more of a worldwide fan base than Jeter or any other US baseball player, is a willing and gracious signer. Muhammad Ali, certainly a bigger celebrity than any ballplayer, signed willingly and happily for fans before he became too ill to accommodate publicly. Even celebs are better at it than most ballplayers. I ran into Sylvester Stallone a few times around LA and every time he was courteous and signed for the fans who approached him. Anyone recall seeing George Clooney at the Oscars a few years ago cross Hollywood Blvd. to sign autographs for fans behind the barricades?

Don't get me wrong; I don't expect our heroes to be saints (unless they are saints, of course). There have always been great signers and bad signers; goes with personality. But don't tell me that taking two seconds to sign an autograph for a fan isn't part of the business. Jeter or anyone else isn't too big and too important to do the right thing, especially when they put themselves out there as role models and endorsers and are enriched by our good will. Babe Ruth is beloved not just because he was a great player but because of the way he treated his fans. In The Glory of Their Times Jimmy Austin described seeing Ruth sign for fans for hours on end, for nothing. My father still fondly recalls Babe Ruth nodding hello to him on Park Avenue in NYC when he was a kid.

Or those dirtbags who charge money to tell you that your near mint card is near mint.