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Response to NY Daily News Article
Legendary Response
Thought I would take a minute and provide a response to the shockingly lopsided journalism utilized in O'Keefe's story that appeared in today's Post. amazing I provided these details last night after being given a last minute chance for rebuttal but he chose not to include my side of the story....I am sure there was no intent! I will speak to the Legendary Auction side of this. All charges against Legendary Auctions and me personally were dropped. No compensation was paid or would ever have been paid to Dave Forman. Since the liquidation of Mastro Auctions I safeguarded a trimmed and altered Babe Ruth Goudey card (as validated by letter from PSA who confirmed that this card had been cut from a sheet and did not have the attributes of a factory cut card) that Dave Forman had attempted to consign to Mastro to help extinguish a liability. Last week Attorneys for Mastro auctions requested the return of this card. I never owned or claimed to own this card and returned it as a result of this request. As for Formans claim that this is card has a value of $150,000 I just hope it doesn't end up in an SGC holder. I have utmost respect for Derek Grady and his team and will forward him an image of this card so they will know the origins. If anyone has additional questions I would be happy to respond via email which is dallen@legendaryauctions.com |
Well said, Doug. Wish you well with the matter.
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Doug, everything that you say above and have said publicly and privately about your years of fraud you have committed at both Mastro and Legendary Auctions is a joke. You brought a simple collection matter, leaked it to the Daily News and then did all that you could to delay the litigation including moving for a change in the judge and ultimately abandoning the case on behalf of Ketap (Mastro successor company). As late as a few weeks ago Ketap was still demanding 300K from Dave to settle -- which was met with laughter. Furthermore, you made very clear that you believed the Goudey not to be trimmed and told Dave you would try to get it slabbed by PSA. In fact, Ketap (of which you are the President) tried to settle the case without giving the Goudey back--we were told you had lost it. When Ketap was told there would be no settlement without the card, it miraculously appeared and was returned. I would love to rifle through your sofa cushions and see what else turns up.
Furthermore, to suggest that you didn't pay any compensation to settle the case is absurd. You abandoned a 400K debt of Dave's -- OF WHICH WE PUBLICLY CLAIMED HE PARTIALLY OWED -- to settle the case. That's called compensation, Doug. You have also engaged in serious fraud at Legendary while under criminal investigation in connection with Mastro Auctions. The chickens are coming home to roost -- and it could not happen to a more deserving guy. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...th_dave_f.html |
"Like any other bully, when you punch back, they folded, and they folded in the most cowardly manner," Lichtman said.
That's good stuff. |
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Doug Allen has been a friend to me.
I love this hobby/industry of ours so much. I have won one card (E95 Wagner PSA5) years ago, and Doug still finds time to send me a catalog via FEDEX because he knows that reading a hard copy is easier for me. He also finds time in his busy schedule to send me an email just to ask how I am doing. This means a lot to me. He, like all my net54 buddies make my life easier to deal with with these friendly emails, etc.., I thank EVERYONE!
When I read this article, it saddened me. Doug's a great guy in my opinion. Here's a copy of my email to Doug. I'm an optimist and hope all issues are cleared up in the interest of all parties. In closing, I want to tell everyone that Doug's been a great friend to me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi Doug, I read your thread this am regarding O'keefe's article. I'm one of your many fans and I will always be one. Your sending me hard copy catalogs which help with my illness is among the kindest things I've encountered since getting sick. Please keep them coming! I wish you continued success with EVERYTHING. Keep your chin up, my friend! Your friend, Bill Hedin 3 Murray Rd Framingham, Ma 01701 |
I am not going to get into a shooting match here. I will clarify my earlier statement about the Forman case as it relates to Legendary and myself as based on your post you apparently didnt understand my statement.
The only claims against Forman were by Mastro not myself or Legendary Auctions. He did not owe me or my company a dime. He did however file a claim alleging wrongdoing by me and my firm. We were only a party to the suit based on his counter claims. As stated the case was settled with my company not having to pay or forgoe any payments. In addition we were never found to be guilty of any charges. So your capital letter statement may be accurate for Mastro Auctions since they chose not to pursue a claim. That is not accurate for me. On a personal note it is clear that Jeff has an axe to grind with me personally as he has found every opportunity to slam me publically. I will continue to take the high road. |
When a tsunami hits the high road is always where you want to be. Stay there and be safe.
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Doug, you're a fraud and you've ripped off everyone on this board who has bid in your auctions. That's why I am taking this personally.
As for your company, Legendary, you have committed fraud in those auctions. And to suggest that you have nothing to do with Ketap's actions, well, that is false. When you leaked your lawsuit to the Daily News you were quoted as saying that the lawsuit was necessary in order to pay consignors; now you're disavowing any responsibility for those quotes as well as the fact that you are the President of Ketap, the very entity which sued Dave Forman. You can spin this any way you like but you got your ass handed to you, just as I said you would. Whether it be a voice mail you left on Dave's machine claiming that Bill Mastro was going to get Dave arrested if he didn't pay up, or Wally Tomala threatening Dave in a drunken rage 38 times in the middle of the night via telephone calls, nothing worked. You were forced to litigate these issues and you failed miserably. And you gave up a 400K claim for cards which we publicly admitted money was owed on. It was a pleasure doing business with you. |
I'm not going to say who's right or who's wrong. one thing i do know is this, the love of money is the root of all evil. money has just about ruined the hobby. why alter cards, why shill bid? damn, when is enough ever enough! i just hope the guilty party get some jail time and not a slap on the wrist and told don't do it again. shame,shame,shame.
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How specifically did Legendary rip people off other than not settling claims from a old company that went under (which might be morally questionable but is perfectly legal). |
Scott, I'm a lawyer who is well-versed in the libel laws. Does it seem as if I'm just engaging in conjecture?
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Not trying to be smart here, but... I understand that your client in this case has had a financial interest in a grading company. Are hobbyists assured that your client has always acted above board and without conflict of interest? Every right-thinking hobbyist wants honesty in all dealings. In the same way, if an auction house or it's employees have broken the law, this should not go unpunished. |
No dog in the fight
Shouldn't full names be included in this most recent Battle Royal?
Rawn |
yes
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Better yet, if you put your full name in your sig line, as others do, then this will never be an issue. One person, TheSquire idiot, has already been banned today for eternity (and that's a real long time :)) . He went ballistic on me in a PM. I can't repeat all of the F bombs etc.....but suffice it to say he committed "police suicide" on the board. I was tired of his idiocy anyway so was happy to have him leave. |
I do find it odd that Doug would come here for support or too clear the air. The stuff with Mastro/Ketap is bad stuff and I’m sure it affected us all in one way or another regardless if we realize it or not. I would bet that if we really knew what went on over the past years behind closed doors our blood would boil.
I also find it a funny statement on human behavior and us as collectors. We all lined up to give Pat Chan the death penalty for faking some T206 overprints which pales in comparison to what Doug has been tied too factually or allegedly. Yet we say keep your chin up? I wonder if all the people that were taken advantage of over the years by Mastro and the crew have kept their chins up? We post scammers eBay links to obvious reprints by the dozens and rant and rave, yet when real deal stuff stares us in the face we all say ho hum. Sometimes I don’t think Mastro and the guys are too blame I really think we as collectors get what we deserve even when it’s staring us right in the face we all rush right back in with our bids and blinders on. Unreal stuff… Cheers, John |
John, many in the hobby made plenty of money off of the fraud committed by Doug and Bill. And they'll do anything to avoid trashing these guys no matter how bad they are.
I'll make this offer to Doug, as he's much chattier on Net 54 than he ever was during the litigation: I'll put up the 400K he sued Dave for if he consents to a public polygraph examination wherein I'll ask him three questions about his fraud at Mastro and Legendary. If he denies the fraud and is judged truthful by the examiner he can keep the 400K and pay off his consigners. If he fails he loses nothing but whatever self-respect he still has. Which clearly is not much. |
distinction
factually or allegedly.--this part of your post might explain why there are different opinions being expressed here...
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Actually, I have a side question after reading the article which is here:
Link From the article, it says that Dave Forman is the president of SGC, and Doug says that he returned a sheet cut Goudey to Dave that was deemed trimmed/altered by PSA. Since Dave is president of SGC, isn't it a conflict of interest for him to get this card graded at SGC, especially if SGC ends up giving this card a high number grade? Gary Chen |
A little distinction from the past...if you will..
There’s plenty of non alleged activity on file..one case in point.
Simple for me I watched the whole Nodgrass deal go down when I and other collectors brought it to the boards attention as well as Mastro and Doug. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=nodgrass http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=nodgrass One thing was really telling for me in that moment. I had to say to myself…. “why would a world class defining company such as Mastro and senior officer (Doug) be involved in such an obvious fake and shady deal? “. I mean what’s the best that comes out of it a few thousand dollar fake card sells? You burn an innocent collector who put trust in your organization. But worse you tarnish a multi-million dollar image over a few grand laughable and sad IMO. One has to say to themselves if they would get caught up in something so petty what are they doing behind closed doors when real money is involved. Allegedly or not I think those are fair concerns. Cheers, John McDaniel |
ok then
I am going back and putting names in every person's sig line that does not have one in there now, in this thread. If you remove it you will be suspended from the board for 1 month. Happy collecting!!
OH, the other alternative is to edit out ALL of your comments...See, we give you choices on Net54baseball..... |
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It's a , um er "gentlemens club" of the seedier sort. Whenever we did a job nearby on a nice day a coworker of mine would always drive by. The "talent " was usually sunbathing in the parking lot. Somehow he always made me recall that. Steve Birmingham |
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Nothing says class like sunbathing in a parking lot. |
Polygraph
I can say that as a litigation lawyer in Michigan, I am very impressed with Jeff's offer of 400K, putting his money where his mouth is, based on the results of a public polygraph. In Michigan, a polygraph is quite limited with regard to its admissibility, as it can only be considered by a judge in the context of a motion for new trial in a criminal case. Michigan case law suggests that while polygraph examiners are generally unanimous with respect to the test's reliability, the general scientific community is not so convinced. Without disclosing any matters subject to attorney-client privilege (all of what follows is a matter or public information), let me say that
I have a client whose credibility is at issue in a case based entirely on circumstantial evidence, and the client passed a polygraph, but based on the whole of the evidence, I would not be able to positively state that client was telling the truth to the polygraph examiner. All of which is not to be considered criticism of Jeff at all, or to take sides in this matter of which I know nothing. I believe that it does certainly reflect Jeff's sincerity, but 33 years of litigation experience tell me that on quite a few occasions, each side in a dispute believes in the truth of its own position. Jeff, however, has a ton of litigation experience too! I would just hope as we all love this hobby so much, that this particular dispute turns out as well as possible for everyone involved. Best regards, guys, and thanks for being there for me when I needed info. Larry Smith |
Larry, Doug does not believe that he has not committed fraud. Which is why he'll never take me up on an offer which has no monetary downside for him.
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what's left now?
it has been a few months since i checked the board. now that the suit has been settled , is it over? are all the party's involved free and clear? rand brotman
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Squire!
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Health permitting, we should hold a "net54 night" during the next Shriner's Show at the Squire or Louie DB's Golden Banana! What do you think? Let's show the boys here the seedy Route One dives! lol, have fun, Bill |
I wonder if there would be much interest? If there is, I might be up for it. Haven't been to a club in a decade or so.
I'm kinda feeling old, the RT1 mention made me look it up, and I remembered it wrong. We'd drive past the King arthur lounge. Off Rt1 by quite a bit, but on the way out of the chelsea produce market area. I'm not that familiar with the nightspots of the area, It was just usually sort of on the way home from fixing dock levelers at one of the produce places. edited to say I'm a bit sorry to derail the thread. Back to legal matters. Steve Birmingham |
Especially with the abundance of honorable houses... Why we bobos bid, consign, and purchase from these teflon sharks is senseless beyond belief. I see Cardboard Rehab, the Reality Show coming.
This is all our own faults. Bill, I hope it has changed. But whan I lived up that way in the 80s, the GB was a Chippendales type bar... I remember many of the Lynn Hosp 3-11 nurses (aka OHBs) frequented that joint after shift. That entire region of the State is comical and frightening at the same time. Steve Falletti Boston http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/20...ippendales.jpg |
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i'm happy with my collection. period.
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Hey, Doug Allen agreed to take a polygraph test about allegations of his fraud!
Woops, just kidding! Free catalogs for all! |
Gnarls Gnarlington
Jeff,
Is it really such a good idea to pick a fight with a high priest shill bid assassin warlock like Doug Allen? He's on a drug called Doug Allen. If you tried it once, you would die. Your face would melt off and your children would weep over your exploded body. He's on a quest to claim absolute victory on every front, starting with this settlement. Doug Allen is, in short, duh, winning! -Ryan |
Ryan, that's a good point. Doug is ringing up more wins by the time he has his first cup of coffee than the rest of us have in a lifetime. He's the only guy in the history of the planet to begin a collection matter and have it ended by paying off the debtor. I hope he has the same winning result in the criminal investigation.
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rt one!
Ok Steve and ladder and the rest of us Boston-ites,
I'm old and in poor health but i say let's pick one and go next time yjrtr'd sbig show! Our visitors will like the sleazy places better than the up-scale ones. lol, up-scale means rget chargw nire! Seriously, sorry to disrupt this thread and although this is I believe post #420, I'll refrain from non-topic rants! Bill Hedin |
To me a very sad part of this
Unrelated to any issues with Dave Forman, but a possible issue with Legendary/Mastro.
I set up at a very small local card show in the DFW area today. Leon stopped by to drop off flyers for Grand Slam Bids and to take in the show atmosphere. While Leon was at my table, a nice man came by and asked my opinion of Mastro/Legendary. Whilst I did not hear most of the conversation, from what I gathered from chatting with Leon later was this man bought a clock for about $300 in which the auction description said was working. Well. when the clock arrived in the Dallas area, it was no longer working and this man, who happens to be an attorney, was upset at how long it took (or may still be taking) to get back his money on that item. Needless to say, just hearing that story 3rd hand was distressing (one never likes to hear complaints about anyone) and I hope Doug can get his ship turned around even more if possible. I do want it understood, that obviously I could have, and should have contacted Doug before making this post -- and that is MY FAULT for not doing so. And for that, I do owe him an apology. Doug has emailed me since, and has assured me that this issue was squared away. And if this was not a well balanced post about what I percieved, I do apologize to Doug --- it was not meant to further toss anyone under the bus, but was, as I pointed out, an issue that I got to hear about locally. I will also check with Leon to make sure that there are no more issues about this clock from that collector as well. On a different note about Doug, he has been a long-time hobbyist, in fact somewhere in my home there are old Beckett book surveys that he filled out way way back in the day. Regards Rich |
Here's how it works with Doug: if you are a loud and visible customer of Legendary/Mastro he will deal with your issue. If you have not contacted the media or are not a part of Net 54 so no one else can hear how you were ripped off -- you're out of luck.
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what i thought was "hinky" few years back was mastro put a few things on ebay, under a mastro account, which i won a lot and recieved no problems., some email tag was involved,, but why would one of the major auction-house(s) at the time piece mail items i found wierd. items were auction worthy.
ps (gotham collection) |
Just noticing
A couple of people still don't have their full names in this thread
Regards Rich |
agreed
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ps....the few here that don't have full names are not confrontational etc.... I don't want to spend anymore time monitoring this crap so hope everyone will just behave :) |
Question to Calvindog
Please see copy of post below - You have not replied to this post and I have been waiting for your reply. It is funny how lawyers have rose colored glassses when it comes to their own clients - OJ's lawyers' believed he was innocent and a hell of a good guy.
Quote: Originally Posted by calvindog Doug, everything that you say above and have said publicly and privately about your years of fraud you have committed at both Mastro and Legendary Auctions is a joke. You brought a simple collection matter, leaked it to the Daily News and then did all that you could to delay the litigation including moving for a change in the judge and ultimately abandoning the case on behalf of Ketap (Mastro successor company). As late as a few weeks ago Ketap was still demanding 300K from Dave to settle -- which was met with laughter. Furthermore, you made very clear that you believed the Goudey not to be trimmed and told Dave you would try to get it slabbed by PSA. In fact, Ketap (of which you are the President) tried to settle the case without giving the Goudey back--we were told you had lost it. When Ketap was told there would be no settlement without the card, it miraculously appeared and was returned. I would love to rifle through your sofa cushions and see what else turns up. Furthermore, to suggest that you didn't pay any compensation to settle the case is absurd. You abandoned a 400K debt of Dave's -- OF WHICH WE PUBLICLY CLAIMED HE PARTIALLY OWED -- to settle the case. That's called compensation, Doug. You have also engaged in serious fraud at Legendary while under criminal investigation in connection with Mastro Auctions. The chickens are coming home to roost -- and it could not happen to a more deserving guy. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...th_dave_f.html Not trying to be smart here, but... I understand that your client in this case has had a financial interest in a grading company. Are hobbyists assured that your client has always acted above board and without conflict of interest? Every right-thinking hobbyist wants honesty in all dealings. In the same way, if an auction house or it's employees have broken the law, this should not go unpunished. |
Peter, frankly I thought that your question was so illogical and misplaced that I ignored it; after all, the article was about an auction house and principals under federal criminal investigation which abandoned a lawsuit to recover monies which it claimed were needed to pay consignors. And then paid the person who it claimed owed them hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And your insulting comments about lawyers also suggests a level of ignorance that I felt didn't warrant a second of my time. "It's funny how lawyers have rose colored glasses when it comes to their own clients ...." No, lawyers should sell their clients out and disparage them publicly. Good point. And also, let me know the last time you had a discussion with Johnnie Cochran or Lee Bailey about OJ. PS -- did the thought ever go through your brain that Dave could have simply slabbed the Goudey at SGC any time he wanted? And he didn't? |
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Reply to Calvindog
You still have not answered the question, perhaps you are unable to.
I do not like anything I have heard about Mastro etc. - it seems they have done some dishonest and unethcial things and I do not like it. I think it is digusting. However, it also appears that Forman is not a complete angel either and that is what I am pointing out. You can do all the mudslinging you want about Mastro etc. - I think it is great and well deserved. However, it is obvious that Forman has a conflict of interest and has had for some time. I think it is deplorable that he has been profiting from the sale of cards and memoribilia in the position that he is in - it is wrong. There is also a rumour that there is new management at his company and that these people have also profited from selling items (autographs) that they were in fact authenticating and also determinging the profits of others (by not authenticating) - that is disgusting. Forman at one time was obviously involved in major dealings with Mastro (so much so that he was able to get items without paying for them in the hundreds of thousands). All I am pointing out is that your client is not an angel either. |
LOL David
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Peter, you understand that I'm not Dave's conscience or personal biographer? Again, the example I provided should give you some comfort as to how Dave handles his valuable cards. I never said Dave was an angel and the lawsuit between Dave and Allen and Mastro did not involve any allegations of fraud against Dave.
And here's an idea: take your business to PSA if you're not comfortable with SGC. If you don't trust the graders and leadership and service at SGC -- go elsewhere. And regarding your rumors, when you have something concrete say it. Or take it to court -- as I did with Allen and Mastro. And win -- as I did with Allen and Mastro. |
Reply to Calvindog
Jeff,
Please read this article - everyone on this board should read this article - it is an excellent read. http://www.autographalert.com/news.html There is a rumor that the people doing these dishonest things are now involved in management at SGC. Is this true? I sure hope not. You seem to dislike unethical dishonest people yourself Jeff which is commendable. Forman would not get involved with shady and dishonest and unethical people as business partners, would he? I am sure when he was heavily involved with Mastro that he believed they were 100% horourable and ethical. |
Peter,
When rumors are taken to court or investigated by a federal grand jury I'll respond. When you are willing to put up 400K of your own money because you think a rumor is more than a rumor, I'll respond. |
Yikes. Far be it for me to defend Mr. Lichtman, but there is no way in hell he can come on here and start saying negative (and even potentially criminal) things about his client out of some vague interest in balanced discussion. No lawyer can do that and be a lawyer for long - both their clients and their licenses will be gone or at risk.
Others - Mastro counsel, semi-interested readers, even you, Peter - can bring up what they want about either party, good or bad, in a thread like this. But the last person with the responsibility to bring up anything negative about one side is counsel for that side. Sorry Peter - while I can see that your concern is for a balanced discussion about something that is important to you, it is probably not fair to expect Jeff to lead the conversation. Joann Kline. |
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While there is no excuse for JSA to charge for a service, where they automatically re-buff authenticity based on a "previous" authentication of Christopher Moralass, the reality is that those are probably the ONLY AUTHENTIC EXAMPLES MORALLESS has ever authenticated and he had to peel off someone else stickers to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So while we would like to see JSA look at items more carefully and be held to a higher standard, they are NOT Crooks. Incompetent at times maybe, but when you compare them to a complete loser, who is tied in with many fraud rings, you are entirely missing the point of the lunatic that runs AA. Before you call JSA dishonest, you need to do some more research other than the slanted narrow view points from the creators of AA. |
All you have to know about Autograph Alert
Type in the Words Stephen Koschal + ***** and see where it leads. He has his own very vested interest but is far from an angel himself
Rich |
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What's more amazing is that Doug has given more comments about the litigation to Net 54 than all the people here who predicted that this litigation would be disastrous for Dave.
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