Who is the greatest BB player you ever SAW?
 

I figured why not start another Battle Royal. The only stipulation here is YOU, not you're dad or granddad, has to have seen him play regularly in your lifetime. Don't tell me you saw Babe Ruth's last at bat so therefore he's the greatest. I am just curious to hear who the board members think is the best of all time. Is it Mantle, Mays, Clemente, Rose, DiMaggio, Ripken or someone else? Incude a story, remembrance or scan of his (your favorite) card. Please limit any opinions to playing only and not "he was nice when he signed my 500 HR bat"! I'm only 44 so mine is a bit more recent: Chicago White Sox 1st baseman/dh Frank Thomas. I don't believe he was on steriods and was the most fearsome hitter I have ever seen (Pujols is a close second).
Edited: Let's try and keep it to 1 player, it's makes the arguments more interesting and anyone can list off 10 HOF'ers. I want this to be your choice of the BEST.

I will qualify mine by points in their career. For example, I can remember watching Griffey in the '95 wild card series against the Yankees. Game 5 was amazing to watch, even as a Yankee fan.

Seeing both Jeter and A-rod play back in the late 90's, early 2000s. Watching Clemens pitch in the mid-2000s. Those were the best players I ever watched in person.

Greatest BB Player We Ever Saw Play
 

Ted Williams
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Bob Gibson
Roberto Clemente
Sandy Koufax
Whitey Ford


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

Not fair Bruce
 

"Greatest BB Player We Ever Saw Play "

The question was the greatest player YOU, not a "we" question.

For me it was:
1. Hank Aaron
2. Nolan Ryan
3. Pete Rose
4. Greg Maddux

I know we were only supposed to pick one, but wasn't able to see the first three at the beginning of their career. Was able to follow Maddux from beginning to end.
r/
Frank

It's also supposed to be just one player so I'll go with Barry Bonds.

There are a few I can choose, but for me, no one was better to watch then Ken Griffey Jr. in his prime.

Roberto Alomar and Greg Maddux were incredible as well.

my vote on best I saw in person
 

Hank Aaron.

Saw him several times, but only observed him hit one homer. (July 3, 1970).

I saw Mays play, but he was past his prime. The most impressive player whom I saw when he was at his best was Clemente.

Kirby Puckett

Barry Bonds
 

honorable mention to Mike Schmidt. The best pitchers were Clemens and Pedro honorable mention to Maddux and Carlton. Best closer was Mariano. Dave Parker was up there before he got too heavy into drugs and then later on just too heavy.

Mickey Mantle

Mays and Clemente.

Cal Ripken, Jr.
 

I saw Cal Ripken, Jr. play (Yankees @ Orioles) on 4th of July week his last season (2001).

Albert Pujols

Willie Mays. Five tools as a player. A tool as an autograph guest.

I saw Dwight Gooden pitch several times in 1985. While the guy's career got sunk by drug use, I've never seen a more consistently dominating player than Dwight during that season --- what a pity!

I suppose that if we're talking about the best career player I've seen though I'd have to vote for one of the following:
Griffey Jr.
Clemens
Maddux
Pete Rose
(sadly I never got to see Nolan Ryan)

Easy one. George Brett.

Best players I ever saw: Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, Mariano Rivera

Most overrated players I ever saw: Mickey Mantle (and I'm a Yankee fan), Nolan Ryan, Ozzie Smith

I think OP got it right: Frank Thomas. I'm only 24, but I don't think there's been a better all-around hitter since Ted Williams. I won't comment on Pujols, as I rarely watch the National League.

Since its hard to compare pitchers and hitters, I'll mention Maddux, too. Not sure if he's necessarily the best pitcher I've ever seen, but he's the best pitcher I've ever seen considering his relative physical prowess and athletic ability. :D As a White Sox fan, Mark Buerhle reminds me of him, except about three levels below him.

Jay- how was Nolan Ryan overrated?

Lots of players come to mind but only one player sticks out;
Don Mattingly

Best Pitchers
Roger Clemens - pre-juice era.
Nolan Ryan - threw a two hitter in the game I saw him

Best players
George Brett
Bo Jackson
Wade Boggs
Don Mattingly
Sammy Sosa

I saw ...
 

Nolan Ryan - I grew up about 30 minutes from Anaheim Stadium in the 1970's. My dad took me to the game CalTech timed Ryan at 100.9 mph for the Guiness book records fastest!

I remember literally EVERY game the question arose - "Is he going to pitch another no hitter today?"

Ryan has the lowest opponent batting average allowed in the entire history of Major League Baseball.

Also - Bo Jackson. Remember the 1989 All Star game - he had a leadoff homerun and an absolutely wicked throw from the warning track to gun out on the fly Harold Reynolds at the plate.

I honestly believe it to be the best outfield throw ever - prove me wrong on this one. My dad said Carl Furillo was pretty bad ass with the throwing arm as well. Sorry Clemente fans, Bo had a better arm - and accurate as all get out!

For one season, Eric "The Red" Davis in 1987.

That I personally saw at a ball park? Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, Cal Ripken and Eddie Murray.

I can't believe anyone would put Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod or any of the other roid cheats on the list of best ever. What a shame we are so forgiving.:(

Barry--Ryan was an excellent pitcher, but nowhere near an all time great. For his career he is 32 games over .500. 1/3 of his seasons were losing seasons. He never won a Cy Young award. He was only an all star in 8 of his 27 seasons.

and as for Mickey Mantle, hitting third for what was probably the best lineup in baseball, he only had over 100 RBIs four times in 18 years. Berra and Skowron were great clutch hitters; Mantle was not.

Wrigley threat
 

As a Cubs fan, I would say watching Ryne Sandberg was fun, although probably not "the greatest." Mark Grace was the best from a "guy I want on my team" perspective. However, if I had to pick the greatest I saw consistently, it would be Mike Schmidt for the way he tore us up every time he walked on the field. He was awesome to watch...

Take Care,
Geno

Kirby Puckett was my favorite, but did see Hank Aaron when I was 5. Saw the greatest current player Derek Jeter several times. Caught a foul ball pitched by Johan Santana/ El Duque duel ( greatest thrill at a game ever ! ) and probably saw the last walk off home run Cal Ripken ever hit his last year at Camden yards !!

Wasn't most of what you said a product of the teams he was on? I don't think that should take away from his ability.

I also disagree with Mantle being overrated, but I am too young and really have little value in my argument. :)

Pete Rose - Not much in the way of talent but 110% heart. IMO played harder than anyone - ever.

Rob-Somewhat. The teams that Ryan played on were middle of the pack quality, although some of the Astro teams were pretty good. I'm not saying he wasn't good; he was very good. Great pitchers win even on bad teams. Look at Steve Carlton (a better pitcher than Ryan) who was 27-10 in 1972 when the Phillies were 57-90. Even Tim Lincecun in 2008 was 18-5 when the Giants were 72-90.

Nolan Ryan by a wide margin for me. I got to see two of his 1 hitters in person, amazing! He was the lone star on some terrible Astros teams. I remember the year he lead the NL in ERA 2.76 and went 8-16 as he got zero run support.

In person - Willie Mays

On TV - Roy Hobbs

No doubt about this answer - - Willie Mays

Watching Bruce Sutter pitch for the Cubs in the late 1970's was pretty amazing. When he had the split finger going, it was unhittable. He made great hitters look like clowns. He saved 133 of the Cubs 379 wins from 1976 through 1980.

I also enjoyed watching George Brett, Reggie Jackson, and Pete Rose.

I hated some great players because they always beat up on my Cubs like Willie Stargell, Al Oliver, Mike Schmidt, Steve Garvey and Phil Niekro.

I'm going to go with Randy Johnson. I've never seen a more dominating player.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0604...iners1_600.jpg http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/fil...7b52f1cf5d.jpg

Jay- I don't agree that Ryan was overrated. That would only be the case if baseball historians rated him one of the greatest pitchers ever, and he isn't in that category.

His 5714 strikeouts and 7 no-hitters are of course otherworldly, but his average winning percentage and so-so control hurt his overall career record.

What Ryan did have is the livest arm in baseball history. He lasted 27 years, which for a fastball pitcher seems impossible. There were many games in his career where he threw over 200 pitches (can you imagine that today?), and the only serious arm injury he ever had occurred on the last pitch he ever threw.

Ryan set strikeout records that will never be approached but I have never heard anyone say he was in the class of Johnson or Matty or even Koufax. So it's hard to say he was overrated.

1. Barry Bonds
2. Ken Griffey Jr.
3. Albert Pujols

Cub Menace
 

Tony -

Good call on Al Oliver - that guy was amazing in Wrigley. Everytime he came to the plate, you knew he was going to get a hit...

Take Care,
Geno

Barry-Fair point. I have heard people call him one of the greatest pitchers ever and in my mind that is just plain wrong.

There were some things Ryan could do better than anyone who ever lived, but assessing his overall career I would say he was not as outstanding as some of his peers.

(1) Bonds
(2) Pujols
(3) Pedro Martinez (at his peak)

Barry was a juicer, but the problem is that if you grew up in the last 20 years or so, pretty much every good player could be suspected of juicing. I know Thomas, Griffey, Jeter are probably not, but you never know. The entire era is tainted.

Still playing but I have to go with Albert Pujols.

Greatest player I ever saw (career) Mickey Mantle

Greatest performance for one game ever:
Jack Morris' 10 shutout innings in Game 7 of the 1991 World Series.

best ever
 

since 1963 when i started watching these were the best in their prime years
koufax marichal gibson palmer seaver were the best pitchers
best reliever gossage best 1 inning "saver" mariano
mays clemente aaron in the outfield
brooks ozzie morgan and mattingly around the infield
bench behind the plate
if you put this team on the field for the best 5 years of each ones career its hard to picture them ever losing a game

Bill James rates Mantle the 6th best player ever, despite those "low" RBIs. One reason his totals were relatively low, aside from injuries keeping down his games played, was the incredible number of walks he drew.

Maybe the point was made, but Ryan did not win a Cy Young.

Steroid allegations aside. Strictly from a practical standpoint it's hard to argue against Barry Bonds.

His On Base %'s are nearly Ruthian, and in the modern game unheard of.

I don't think he ever saw a decent pitch to hit the last 5-7 years of his career, and still put up the ridiculous stats he did.

Only guy I ever saw intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

Not to mention the stolen bases and the Golden Gloves from the first half of his career.

Peter-The idea for a three or four hitter is to drive in runs. Taking your point about walks I looked at a few power hitters to see their ratio of RBIs to ABs. These are the results:

Ruth-.263
Williams-.239
DiMaggio-.225
Pujols-,215
Bonds-.203
Mantle-.186

If not for his injuries he might have been an all time great, maybe the greatest ever, but injuries are part of the game. Because of his knees he was not a base stealiing threat and had to be replaced in the outfield for defensive purposes late in games. Additionally, he finished his career with a sub .300 average (even if he skipped his last year his average would have been barely over .300). Also, he batted in one of the best lineups of his time which provided many more RBI opportunities than available to a normal three or four batter.

Best I saw in person ...
 

Catfish Hunter in his last two seasons with the A's. Absolute master of control.

To me it has to come down to Hank Aaron. Take away every single one of his 755 home runs and what do you have? Answer - 3,016 hits. Still enough to get you into the HOF.

I'm surprised that no one ever makes a case for Rod Carew. The guy was an absolute hitting machine. Fifteen straight years with an average over .300 and seven AL batting titles in a ten year period.

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.:mad:

Sadly, Bonds was on his way to a HOF career without steroids.

Sosa def wasn't.

choose 1
 

hank aaron, hands-down.

taught his daughter 30 years ago.

quite the gentleman; quite the lady.

best,
barry

Mike Schmidt, no question

1987 is about the earliest I can remember watching games. Living in WA this is an easy choice for me--Ken Griffey Jr.

What couldn't he do on a baseball field in his prime?

Andrew

I agree with Jay on Nolan Ryan being overrated. Best I ever saw in person:

Hitter: Barry Bonds
All-around 5-tool player: Larry Walker (believe it or not)
Pitcher: Pedro in his prime or Hershiser in 1988
Honorable mention: 1980s Don Mattingly

-Ryan

Hitter: George Brett
Pitcher: Mariano Rivera

George Brett: Lived in KC from 75-92 and he was lights out most notably from 75-80. Killed the Red Sox and many others.

this was a tough one. I saw Mays, Aaron and Clemente, but all at the ends of their careers...but they were still the best out there so that's kinda scary. I saw some great pure hitters like Brett and Gwynn through their whole career make hitting look easy. I saw Brooks Robinson who in my opinion is the best fielder I ever saw, but If I was to pick one player that I've actually seen in my lifetime as the best player I ever saw I'd have to pick Pujols. He's a monster.

Mine
 

Greg Maddux

Best player seen
 

Best pitcher I saw was Koufax and the best hitter, Pujols. I saw Musial at the end of his career as well as Brock and Banks, but Albert is awesome.

John

Best I ever saw on TV: Nolan Ryan
Best I ever saw in person: Pete Rose
Honorable Mention: George Brett. Gad, I hated that guy in 1976-81.

Well, the question you posed was "Who is the greatest BB player you ever saw?"

If you phrased it differently I may have answered differently.

I have yet to see any player put the fear into pitchers he did...........steroids or not.

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

Best I've seen
 

Always loved Tony Gwynn, always put the ball in play

Bonds was just a monster, even pre-steroids

Randy Johnson could dominate a game like no other pitcher I've ever seen

put it into perspective
 

The all-time leader in "lowest opponent batting average": #1 Nolan Ryan with .203, then #2 Koufax with .205

Basically, Nolan Ryan was the most difficult pitcher of all time to get a hit against.

Koufax had the advantage of a raised pitching mound - big help. Nolan Ryan came along after they lowered the pitching mound to make it easier for hitters.

How many no-hitters would Ryan have if he played with a higher mound like Koufax? Maybe 10, 11 or more?

The stupid ass Cy Young voters had a bone to pick with Ryan. Case in point: 1973 Ryan broke Koufax' single season K record with 383, had not one, but 2 no-hitters, was around 20 wins for the lowly Angels. And they gave the Cy Young to Palmer. Makes me sick to my stomach. As a kid I was mortified by the voters decision - as an adult, still am mortified. Could you imagine a pitcher with those season credentials not winning the Cy Young.

Yes, there is sometimes corruption in baseball. Yes, there are media darlings, aka Palmer.

Plain & Simple - Nolan Ryan had the best stuff of any pitcher, ever.

Ryan's career mark of 2795 walks may actually be his most remarkable career baseball stat. Heck, statistically (at 52% above the runner-up) it may be the most remarkable of all baseball career stats. He was a truly amazing pitcher, but he wouldn't be in my top 50 - maybe not even in my top 100 - of pitchers I might select to pitch a WS game 7 for my team.

I'd say Mays was the best player I ever saw, however I only got to see him towards the end of his career. Rickey Henderson was pretty special, but I never thought he reached his potential. I loved my local favorites Killebrew, Carew and Oliva. Killebrew was the best pure power hitter I ever saw, and Carew the best singles hitter. I thought Oliva was destined to be one of the all-time greats until his unfortunate injury (not to be too macabre, but had he been struck dead by a bus in 1972 instead of playing on a mangled knee for several years thereafter, I think he would have made the Hall long, long ago).

FWIW Bill James ranks Ryan 24th among pitchers.

Assuming the question means "saw in person" I'd have to say Ken Griffey Jr even though he seemed to get hurt nonstop (and steadily decline in production) after he got here. :(

Since I've only been to a handful of games... all Astros... I enjoyed watching Craig Biggio. Scrappy little guy with a big heart and a heavy bat.

"Say Hey" Willie. And this is the opinion of a lifelong Brooklyn/LA Dodger fan.

Best Player
 

Pitcher-hands down George Thomas Seaver
Hitter-Henry Aaron
Most dominant for one season would have to be a tie
Ron Guidry in 1977 and Dwight Gooden in 1985. CN

I agree: Tom Seaver. I was fortunate to have seen him pitch many times at Shea in the 70's. The best hitter I have seen is still playing: Albert Pujols.

In person - Dave Winfield
On TV - Rickey Henderson

Steve

Being in my early 30's and not going to many games when I was little I don't have as large of a list to work from as some of you. It took me less then a second to figure out that the only possible answer for me would be Ken Griffey Jr. I was able to watch him during his first spring training when I was just entering my teenage years... I was even able to get an autograph. Hitting, fielding, and the sweetest swing in baseball.

Bar none the most dominating player i have ever seen is Jose Canseco. Ask any player who was in the league from 87-90 and they will agree. He was a one man wrecking crew , the players had never seen anyone who could hit run and propel his team to win. Do I agree with the roid use, well they were all on it the last 23 years and Jose was the best.

Valid point. Other than a few years when Mantle has Maris batting behind him, he had no protection in the lineup like others have had. Also if you subtract out Ruth (didn't see), Bonds (steroids), DiMaggio and Williams (never saw in person), that leaves only Pujols ahead of him. I will still take Mickey.

Pedro Martinez- for a span of about 5 years he was by far the best player I have seen. ERA's in the high 1's, low 2's during a time when jacked up monsters were hitting 70 home runs.