Anyone here done business with Chris Long Management?
 

I've won an eBay auction from someone, paid about 3 hours after the auction via Paypal, and am now in email wars with him... docgodzilla / Chris Long Management.

Never heard of him, what's the beef - did you pay too fast?

Never heard of him, but what could he be "warring" over? You won the auction. You paid the bill. Now he has to ship the goods. Simple, right?


Edited to say: Jeff and I are working as a team this afternoon.

I won a raw T206. My callous email here hit a nerve with him.....


Hello there,

I've processed Paypal payment for this. $4 seems high for mailing it, if you manage to mail it for less than that please refund some postage. I'm super patient, so mail when convenient, no rush. Thanks. And, if whoever bought Lundgren or Leifield don't pay, please contact me, I'll buy them.

Thanks.


With kind regards,

Frank Wakefield.

In a sense, I can see why questioning postage AFTER the auction might bother him. If he stated what the charge was in the listing, then you can't really question it.

However, if he charges you $4.00, then tosses it in an envelope with a 44 cent stamp on it... then you can nail him with the "stars" part of the feedback.

Yes, Jim, the $4 was there up front. I processed payment with the $4 in there, and then sent that email... it has "please" in it.

I got a Hindu backed T206 once in an envelope. Stamp on envelope, in a top loader, no sleeve. It had one stamp on it, and I had to pay a bit postage due on it.

And I've gotten cards in a bubble envelope with 2 stamps on the outside, postage due, which I paid... I think about 78 cents postage was on it, it needed a dollar something, I'd paid $4 shipping for that.

Maybe it will all work out. Maybe he's busy scraping at the back of the card before he sends it... I just didn't think that email was that insensitive with it being sent after I'd paid the shipping. Thanks.

I think what Frank did was reasonable enough, paid to show he wasn't going to be difficult about it, but asked the guy for some consideration.

Speaking of postage, some day I am going to affix an address label and postage to an actual slab and mail it lol.

I didn't think your email was "that insensitive" either, but I have resigned myself to paying whatever the seller asks, factoring it into my bid, and, if they don't sent in a method appropriate with their fee, I do their stars to reflect it.

For $4.00 I would expect a sleeve and a toploader, wrapped in cardboard and tape, in some sort of bubble mailer. By the time a guy buys a bubble mailer, toploader, sleeve, etc., and drives to the Post Office, he's into it for a couple of bucks.

For anything over that charge, I'd expect Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation.

But, if you felt the $4.00 was too high, you could have asked before the auction was over.

But, from your email, it certainly doesn't sound like you were trying to start a war.

My Take
 

I don't want to get into a "message board war", but I would be a little pissy if I got that email from an auction winner after an auction. The underbidder surely factored in the shipping cost in their bid.

I agree that it was a reasonable enough question, but I probably would have asked before bidding. I personally wouldn't say anything about the postage after the fact and would leave appropriate feedback about sellers shipping fees. I don't think $4.00 is really that unreasonable for stamp, supplies, time & sometimes gas.

I can certainly see where the seller might be like wtf. You bid and won, now you want to address the shipping fee.

Just my take.

r/
Frank

Is his Ebay user name docgodzilla or docgodzilla213?

I have dealt with the latter and emailed him a question about the back series on a raw T206. He told me that it was a 350 series. So I bid high on the card and when it arrived it was a 150 series. I kept the card and chalked it up as a lesson learned.

Quite possible they are the same guy.


Jantz

Got to be docgodzilla213 from CA--The other name is in Germany & has never sold anything.

I had a perfect 5.0 on my shipping charges star until some guy complained after he won about shipping charges even though they were listed in the auction. It was for a vintage magazine (which btw can NOT be shipped via media mail). I charged a whopping $3 to ship the magazine and he still hit me on the shipping star. I've since blocked him from bidding on my auctions.

When I'm buying if the shipping is high I just take notice and see how they ship it to me...some guy recently sent me an autographed photo which he charged me $6 shipping on and sent it in an envelope with no protection at all which cost him $1.30. I gave positive feedback, but ripped him on his shipping star.

This is a thread about $4.

There's a thread about millions, and a thread about four bucks. Lol, it's all about fairness!

I would probably charge $3.00 to ship the card, so $4.00 is ok. I actually like to ship priority mail, safer in the hard cardboard box. Myself, I don't mind paying a little more for safe shipping.

Joe

Negative, it's about the difference between $4 and the guy's actual shipping cost. :):)

Dan, why can't a vintage magazine be shipped Media Mail? I have done that many times. Maybe I am breaking some rules.:D

Joe

new USPS tighting down rules
 

They have advertising, albeit 50+years old

ebay
 

I won a T206 MALARKEY raw auction off of him. No problems card came as decribed $4 shipping, don't think he used delivery confirmation, just a brown bubble mailer if I recall but it came...

Strange...I just got an old CPU (if you remember this, you have been collecting a long time) and it was shipped media mail...btw, a '52 Mantle could have been had for $800 in vg and a '41 Ted Williams for $75!

As to Frank's problem...the question was fair...I got a package about a month ago postage due after I paid $4.50 s/h. It was in a bubble mailer with one stamp and I ended up paying $1 and change to get the envelope. When I email the seller for a refund of shipping he told me that I could not prove it...I sent him a scan of the front of the envelope. He sent several nasty emails which I ignored...I then gave him neutral feedback and one star on shipping and will not buy from him again...

If I recall...

It is against the law to overcharge and make a profit on shipping costs.

Joshua

I would doubt that since almost everything you order off of television includes a "handling" charge...for a while I think the Ebay sell it shops charged $5 handling on every ebay auction no matter if you picked it up in person or had it shipped.

I bought 5 raw t206s from him a couple weeks ago. Not bad, a bit of extra shipping, Upgraded to priority with conf and ins. Not really all that well packed. Bubble envelope, cards in cut up pages inside toploaders, All wrapped loosely in some cardboard. Not tight enough to keep the cards from getting out of the toploaders a bit, fortunately the one that stuck out and got a bit sideways was also in pretty rough shape, The corner that was hanging out couldn't have been damaged much more. One card was not as good as described, but 3 were a little better than I'd thought. With small pics I usually assume hidden problems. Overall, not a bad seller, but not great either.

Steve B

I have enjoyed all of the comments above...

I'll drive to the post office to pick the card up, I use a post office box. If I've sold anything that's going out that day, I'll mail it at the same time. My point, the idea of charging for gasoline or driving to the post office as part of the shipping seems a stretch to me. The guy has 4.8's in 4 catagories, and 4.6 in shipping and handling. And $4 to mail a T206 is probably why.

I visited NYC last year, saw 2 plays, ate at the Boat House, went to the Met, did touristy stuff... I'm well aware that $4 is an inconsequential amount in New York for investors, advisers, lawyers and such. $4 barely still is of significance down here in the hills of Kentucky. Sorry if this minutia frustrates or annoys some of you. I just got back from a Hot Rods game (class A Rays affiliate) where my tailing fastball crossed the plate for one of the honorary first pitches. The one beer I bought cost $5, they're only $2 on Thirsty Thursday's. http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/p....jsp&sid=t2498

$4 is a dollar more than I would charge and I use bubble mailers and top loaders and drive to the post office and I figure most times I'm breaking even or coming out ahead a little bit...maybe he pays some kid a buck for every package to pack them? My brother used to pay me a buck for every package...I could do about 50 or 60 in a couple of hours.

edited to add: I just read that after I posted it and that's a lot of "and's" in one sentence. Sorry Barry.

I think complaining about 4$ for shipping is being petty, but then again that is just me.... i wouldn't have responded back to you, but would have called you a cheap b**tard to myself....

so because you think the guy is charging you $1 too much, you make countless emails and write up postings, to essentially to see if guys agree with you about a buck??

seems all a little silly to me....


There is a guy on ebay that has a $92 shipping charge for one card to Canada! Baygraphs is his current ID if i remember, guy is an idiot as well. He changes ID's all the time because he always gets negatives as he wont ship the card unless to agree to "his" price which usually isnt the ebay price......

me too
 

I bought 3 cards about a week or so ago from him. I asked him before the auction ended if he would combine shipping. He said he would. Then the auction ended and for 3 cards, he sent a shipping invoice of $9.

Now, he lives on the outskirts of LA and I live in LA as well so I just emailed him and said that seemed a bit high to put 3 cards in the same package and mail it.

Here is what he said:

"what i quoted you was for priorityu mail with delivery confirmation and insurance. I am reluctant to send t2-6 any other way

what do you think?

let me know and we will fix this for sure!"

Anyway, I just paid the $9 so I could get the cards. The cards themselves were OK. I think you always take a gamble when dealing with small pictures and incomplete seller descriptions. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Two of the cards were about as expected. One a little worse.

I think I knew what I was getting just by looking at the pictures that he posts. You always hope they are a little better than expected but are rarely pleasantly surprised.

--I just got another card from a different seller which was put loose in a 8 1/2 x 11 bubble mailer which looked like it had been churned through a coffee grinder. It has about 4 more creases now than the picture that I bid on. And he charged $3.25. So, it's all relative.

ok
 

i've also bought from him with no problems. he does send the package insured. therefore, insurance is included with the $4.

Frank
 

To your credit the letter was very courteous. However; if the auction in question, and please post the link, did say $4 postage then you technically made a contract to include that amount in your bid. Thus, your email could be considered an attempt to modify the contract and if so, the seller has the right to be upset with you.

Regards
Rich

Modify, Rich, not break. Frank paid. The overcharging seller has no right to be upset.

In the last few weeks I've been forced by my wife to clean out the attic and get rid of several items. Instead of throwing them out, I posted a few on Ebay. It didn't take long to see that if I charged a fair amount for shipping, plus Ebay's listing fees, plus Ebay's final value fees, plus Paypal's fees then it was just not worth the headache to package it and drive to the PO to mail it.

What I've done now is start every auction at $.01, but I've set the shipping charges to what I think the item is worth. For instance, I've got a few limited edition prints that were appraised at $1200. I've got the start price at $.01 but shipping set at $799.00. The $.01 start price qualifies for a free listing and if the item sells for $2.00, then my Ebay fees are kept to a minimum. I've had a few Ebayers question the shipping but when I explain, they understand.

Frank, I agree that the ebayers that nickel and dime are annoying...I guess my point is that there are just so many of them in the hobby. When you consider how many worse transgressors there are (see Top Secret Meeting at the National, Baltimore, MD Aug. 4, 2010) this one is just not worth the effort.

This is against ebay rules...it won't take long before someone will turn you over to ebay for excessive shipping charges. I don't know what ebay does about it though.

That seems a bit sleazy to me.

I'm pretty sure ebay considers it "theft of services."

This thread...
 

...really confuses me.

Question for Sellers:
Do you guys honestly just eat ebay/paypal fees, post office/bubble envelope purchase travel and time costs, and charge only what the actual envelope costs with shipping charge? And if so, why would you do that?

Question for Buyers:
Do you guys honestly expect sellers to just eat the ebay/paypal fees, post office/bubble envelope purchase travel and time costs, and charge only what the actual envelope costs with shipping charge? And, if so, why do you think the buyer should not have to bear any of those additional costs?

I thought eBay had found away around that. I occasionally sell used video games on eBay and they have a $4.00 limit on shipping charges in that category.

+1
 

I completely agree with FUBAR that complaining about 4$ for shipping is being petty. Its not like he was charging you $20 to ship the card, it was $4.

You don't know why he was charging $4 anyway. I live out in the country and the closest post office to me is 11 miles away in one direction so thats a 22 mile round trip to ship a card. It roughly cost me $4 just in gas to ship a package (my truck gets 17 MPG). If you count the shipping cost, delivery confirmation and the cost of a bubble mailer and gas, it costs me between $7 or $8 to ship a package. I ususally charge $3.95 for shipping and eat the rest just to get a decent feedback.

What people don't realize is that not everybody is 2 minutes from a post office.

Yeah that bubble wrap really adds up.

As a seller I try to keep the cost as low as possible and not lose money on shipping...those stars are important because I earn 20% off my final ebay bill if I keep a good rating. As a buyer I always take into account the shipping charges when bidding...if they are unreasonable...and I always determine that when the item arrives as per my example above of $6 to ship an 8x10 photo...which would be okay if it had been protected, but it was just thrown into the envelope with no protection and the mailman bent it putting it into my mailbox which caused a crease.

As a side note it has been noted by a lot of sellers on ebay that if you don't charge anything for shipping you will take a hit on your stars.

In the time it takes you to mail your next package you could learn how to size and weigh your packages and calculate your own postage and put the stamps on. Heck, even delivery confirmation can be done at home. Round up to make sure and you still save a ton on gas.

Well for folks that live 11 miles from a post office, there's a way they can save time and avoid paying for gas...

Someone can put that little red flag up on a mailbox and the carrier will stop. Leave him an envelope with money and he'll leave you an envelope with stamps next time by. Or you can order stamps through the USPS and they'll mail them to someone. Then, someone can put the flag up and they'll pick up the packages that are ready to mail. I think with Priority mail someone can schedule pickups. So a person doesn't have to drive 22 miles round trip while getting 17 MPG, they can choose to do that, or choose to use less gas, save time, and save postage costs.


As for bubble wrap costs, save the packaging when you receive stuff.... I use new envelopes, and use pieces or corners of bubble wrap envelopes that I've received in the mail. Saves money, gets a second use out of that environmentally unfriendly bubble wrap. It's not rocket science.

just use paypal shipping
 

and drop the package off at any mailbox. its very easy. You can print postage right on your printer

George

I wish it was that easy
 

I just dont sell cards, I actually sell more memorabilia than cards. Most of the stuff I sell wouldn't fit in my mailbox so I would not be able to leave that little red flag up for the postman. I just sold a Carstairs Ruth cardboard sign (12 x20) what do I do with that? Just leave it on the lawn? Or the 16 x 20 1900's team photo I sold 2 weeks ago? That's a little bit too big for the mailbox too. With the different weights and sizes, its easier to go to the post office unless there is an easier way?

I recently lost my 20% Ebay discount because of anonymous DSR shipping cost scores.

Everything I ship is with Delivery Confirmation in Reinforced Envelopes or Priority Boxes. I use Insurance when I think it's necessary on higher dollar items and cover any possible losses myself if I don't use Insurance.

My shipping charge is clearly stated in every auction and I give deep discounts to multiple auction winners. I would say I lose quite a bit more then I take in every month in Shipping & Handling charges. That's not even taking into consideration that Paypal also takes a little chunk of that shipping charge every time somebody pays you through them.

Doesn't really matter. With Ebay's ingenious system it only takes 1 person out of 100 to decide you purposely ripped them off by charging 50 cents too much for shipping a $10 item...............or somebody else getting pissed because you charged them $12 bucks to ship a group of items that ultimately cost you $20 bucks to ship because they have no idea how much Insurance costs or the fact it cost me twice as much to ship certain Priority packages to California as it does to ship it to the Northeast, since the USPS Zoning rates went into effect.

..........Or somebody leaves a low mark by mistake, or a competitor, or one of your more eccentric customers thinks it would be neat to mark you down here or there...........just because.

Unless you do huge volume it is nearly impossible to overcome a single low score under the present system...........and it's totally anonymous, so you don't even know who to block or avoid.

So forgive me if I'm not entirely sympathetic of post-auction shipping charge negotiations, or even suggestions of I ship this way or that way...........so YOU should also ship this way or that way.................or I don't mind taking a loss, so neither should you.

Also, most International packages, which I send plenty of, need to be dropped off and paid for in person at the Post Office. Also, anything Insured for over $500 also needs to be done at the P.O..

If you are concerned about the sellers shipping practices, a polite request to make sure the item is packed very securely should have done the trick. If he shipped with a 43 cent stamp and no protection to the card............then you can ding him. However to initially request a refund on an already established S&H charge if the stamp on the front didn't exactly match the S&H charge, would have probably annoyed me to no end...............and I am a very patient guy. I most definitely would have responded to your e-mail as politely as possible in return, and you would not have known I was annoyed.........but I most certainly would have been.

First of all, don't have those in my neighborhood. And even if I did, I would never leave anything of value in a curbside mailbox with a red flag up to alert passersby that something was in their waiting to be stolen.

But, putting aside the mileage costs, do you think the seller in your transaction should be solely responsible for the ebay and paypal fees? And, if so, why?

Sleazy? Really? What's the difference of listing an item's start price at $799 and free shipping, versus listing the start price at $.01 and $799 for shipping? The buyer still pays $799 regardless of the scenario and is not injured at all. The seller saves several bucks and Ebay loses a few.

BTW, I don't regularly sell on Ebay but I did notice several categories where the shipping fees are capped (cd's, books, movies, etc). I've sold about a dozen or so miscellaneous items in categories that aren't capped.

If Ebay wishes to "punish" me for a rule infraction... so be it! Half the crap I'm selling/sold is under $50 and it's stuff that would have been thrown out or donated anyway. Ebay has access to my Paypal account so I guess if they really wanted to, they can go in and recover a few bucks or whatever they think I owe!

I do think some shipping charges seem too high, but if it's clearly stated in the auction or BIN, and you choose to bid on the item or BIN, then there is no reason to be upset, IMO. You chose to participate and hoped to win, knowing what the seller was charging for shipping.

I'm not siding with what the seller charges for shipping, just the fact that you knew what he was charging and still chose to bid.

Clayton

Good point on the red flag. I have pickups at my house occasionally but leave a note in the mailbox for my mail person to come to the front door to pick the boxes up.........and only when I am home already.

As a seller, I see Ebay and Paypal fees as a cost of doing business on my end. I DO get annoyed when I am told I also should be covering more of the general S&H charges myself or somebody e-mails me and tells me that they can ship so and so for a buck..........so I should be able to also.

Overall, my goal is to break even in that area each month........and I usually fail miserably at it. :(

Really? In a hobby in which virtually everyday someone lowers the standards just a tad more? I would reserve the word sleazy for other charming elements in the hobby.

eBay has turned their site upside down for sellers. Only place where the seller assumes the entire burden and cost of selling an item. The seller gets charged for selling the item and as well as charged for accepting payment. Shipping has to be kept extremely low, if not free, in order to avoid backlash from a buyer. Those costs cannot be recouped. On top of a typical buyer's premium of 17.5%, private auction houses charge outrageous amounts for shipping and virtually none of them have to accept a form of payment which costs them anything to process.

cost of doing business....
 

I just factor in shipping costs into the price I am bidding/paying. If they are way, way out of line then I might say something or ding the seller. There is no reason for them to charge WAY more and try to recoup their fees in the shipping....even if they stated it. That being said I can't remember ever dinging anyone. I am just stating an opinion. I don't sell on ebay anymore for a variety of reasons and one of the main ones being the egregious fees they charge (including forcing an online payment, knowing they will get an extra 3% by doing so). regards

btw, I think the worst change of all has been not allowing sellers to leave feedback

OK not sleazy but still it seems to me that if you are going to use someone's service, i.e. ebay, you should play by the rules and not try to cheat them out of their fees. Easy for me to say I suppose as I don't sell much.

I would agree with that. But if ebay is going to get a huge slice of the pie, I see no reason why the seller must eat the entire cost of that slice and cannot pass -- up front and prior to accepting bids -- some of that cost to the ultimate buyer.

My biggest problem with ebay shipping feedback are the choices:

Very reasonable = 5 stars
Reasonable = 4 stars

That makes me think if actual cost is charged then you give 4 stars and only give 5 stars if you get a discount. Shouldn't actual cost deserve 5 stars?

In order to maintain certain seller privledges, including discounted seller fees, you must keep all ratings above 4.5.

I'll be the "Lost Soul" on this one... call me a crooked snake in the grass but if I have an item for sale that's worth about $10, I want to pocket as much as I can towards the actual price without feeling sore in my lower region the next morning. I have no problem with being charged a flat-rate insertion fee by Ebay... it's the Final Value fee that I find insulting.

Ebay buyers are looking for a deal, as am I when I make a bid. Say for instance you are selling a $10 DVD. You know it's worth $10, the buyer knows it's worth $10 so you list it for $10 and it doesn't sell because the seller has to tack on $3 for shipping. So you relist it for $7 w/$3 shipping. Now it sells for $7.01 (+ $3 shipping) because it's the same price as one can buy it from the local Best Buy. The seller is now out $3, plus Ebay fees, plus a little extra for delivery confirmation, plus PayPal fees. Now the item you knew was worth $10 is now worth about $5.50... give or take. It's a bad deal for the seller and the same deal the buyer would get at Best Buy. If I have the option to use a little Vasoline and reverse shipping costs with the listing price... I'll do it until Ebay snuffs me out! Call me crooked!

Most of the problem in that case seems to be that your DVD starts out being worth only $7 since you have to ship it in any case.

It really doesn't matter what you feel, in your head or your groin. When you opened an Ebay account, you agreed to abide by their rules and regulations. Period.

Clearly, shifting the revenue dollars from the "Sales" column (where you pay a % to Ebay) to the "Shipping" column (where you pay no % to Ebay), is an attempt to cheat Ebay out out their fees. There is no other way to look at it. Any honest person would see it that way. Ebay will see it that way. A judge or jury would see it that way.

Coming on a public message board and admitting that you go out of your way to cheat someone (in this case, Ebay) out of what's due them is very telling. Your exact words were: "The seller saves several bucks and Ebay loses a few." Unless Ebay was a party to this agreement to "lose a few bucks," you are stealing from them.

Since you admit to being a crooked seller, would you mind telling us your Ebay ID?


Edited to add: I don't really think for a second that you are a crooked seller. I just think you haven't thought this through completely.

wow..... just wow. Your auctions wont last long.

That's correct. If the item for sale is a known price (like a DVD), the seller has to reduce the price to include shipping for the item to move; Otherwise the buyer won't touch it for $13 if he can get it for $10 at Best Buy.... that doesn't mean the item is now worth $7 (only in Ebay land). Now the seller has already paid the insertion fee, now they pay a final value fee (I believe 9%), plus extra $.80 for delivery confirmation & then Paypal fees. By the time the meat is picked off the bone... it's really not worth selling on Ebay (like Leon mentioned earlier). That's why I don't have a moral issue with listing the item for a penny with a higher shipping cost to minimize Ebay's fees. Ebay hits an item twice with fees (before and after a sale) and passes them along to the Seller. The Buyer pays the same costs regardless of how it's listed, the Seller pockets more and Ebay takes less from the Final Value Fee.

I'm just now seeing this first-hand from a Seller's perspective since I just started selling some extra items I had in storage. It's probably better in the long run, in my case, to have a garage sale or just donate it for a very small tax credit.

I hear what you are saying. I've actually had potential buyers ask why shipping was high and I answered the question and posted it (just like on this forum) for everyone to see... including Ebay.

My Ebay ID is mds0319. If Ebay chooses to shut me down... Oh well! It's not like I make a living from selling crap out of my attic.... (I'll run out eventually)! Hell, if Ebay wants... they can come over and take the rest of the crap out and keep it as a replacement value for the fees they were shorted on by my sales.... it must be up to at least $4.00 now!!

Just to get the thread back on topic - I also won 3 of his raw T206s last month. He charged me $6 for shipping. I paid and the cards came and were much better than I had expected. I don't care what it really cost him to ship the cards - he stated clearly in the auction that shipping was $4 for the auction, and I was happy that he combined shipping on 3 cards and charged only $6. They were packaged pretty well so I had no problem with the transaction. When I bid, I had accounted for the $4 in the final price so I was happy with the final price also. If I was willing to pay $20 for a card and shipping was $2, I would bid $18.
If shipping was $10, then I would only bid $10. What difference does it make to me?

You would agree that the buyer is not being screwed here, right? And that the only entity that loses in this transaction is ebay, right?

If anything, that might make someone a crooked user of ebay, but it doesn't make them a crooked seller. I hardly think it's my business as a buyer to assess whether the seller is improperly working around ebay's ever-changing rules and escalating fees.

Unless you own stock in ebay or are otherwise dependent upon the health of ebay for your hobby or business, I do not fully appreciate the perspective that defends ebay's rules and rights to its fees.

Cheating is cheating in my book. Doesn't matter to me if it's a person or a company being cheated.

And, it really doesn't matter if you "appreciate the perspective" or not. If you use their system, you have agreed to abide by their rules. If you don't like them, then use another conduit for sales.

It could not be any clearer to me.

It's funny, Paul, for most issues in life (politics, the economy, religion, etc.) I have noticed that most people have been sucked into a "left or right," "black or white," vortex, and I always tend to see things as very middle of the road and/or gray.

This isn't one of those issues.

Obviously. I would say that I understand the general concept of adhering to the rules you agree to when you sign a contract or play a game. I just don't think that what the seller has done here makes him crooked, at least not in the eyes of the buyer.

In any event, I do not understand the rule that ebay prohibits the deferral of fees from the buyer to the seller, and yet allows sellers to set their own flat shipping and handling fees. To me, that is where the gray is. The ambiguity is built into their rules. To me, if you are going to charge me a $5.00 fee for selling an item, I should be allowed to consider some or all of that a "handling" fee. Ebay is no worse off financially, the buyer understands the conditions of the sale up front before bidding. It is a rule without a purpose, that cannot be policed.

In short, to me, it is a stupid rule. And if there is anything I feel pretty strongly about, it is adhering to rules that serve no purpose and only harm me when enforced. But if "adhere to all rules" is your dogma, to each his own.

I, sometimes, drive faster than the posted limit. :D

Cheater.... ;)

It's not defering the fees from the seller to the buyer, it's circumventing them almost entirely. With a .01 price and high shipping fee Ebay recieves very little in the way of fees, the buyer as always pays none. Ebay has made a rule that doing that isn't allowed. (I think technically it might be a theft of services but a small one.)

What gives them the right to make this rule is that they provide
The servers the site runs on.
The expensive computer people to run those servers.
The ads promoting the site(Also not cheap)
All of which makes a nice venue that because it was first and at one time the best of its kind.
And that provides lots of customers.

And all that is worth something. To expect to be given free access to an advertising venue that's been built up to a very successful level is pretty unfair. I'm not big fan of their fees and rules, but it Is their site and therefore their rules.

Steve B

I know. I know. But I'm better now that I have two teenage drivers. Too many questions that were too hard to answer.

The problem I have with an issue like this is, how do you know where to draw the line? If it's OK to cheat Ebay because you don't like their rules, is it OK to cheat State and Local governments that expect sales tax? Then, is it OK to cheat the IRS by not reporting any profits? If it's not OK to cheat those you sell to, is it OK to cheat those you buy from (suppliers, vendors, grading companies, other sellers)?

I fine definitive lines only in two places. It's not OK to cheat anyone, or it's OK to cheat them all.

As I say, with two kids in the house, I have to say the only answer is the first choice.

We all draw our lines. I do not seek to deprive ebay of its hard-earned fees. But, if you ask me what my shipping fee is, I'll tell you bubble mailer+postage+pain-in-the-ass fees (including, but not limited to time and costs associated with buying the bubble envelope at Staples and making my way to a post office and paper packing slip and printer ink, and some reasonable portion of the ebay/paypal fees).

If ebay wants to collect $5 from me as a seller, I see nothing wrong in an up front deferral of some or all of those fees to the buyer.

I make no represetations one way or the other regarding a penny auction with an $800 shipping charge for an $800 card. That's between seller and ebay. The buyer should be indifferent.

When I started selling a few weeks ago, I played by Ebay's rules. By the time I relisted one of the larger items multiple times at $3.00 a pop, I knew I had to change things. Ebay never offered to refund my listing fees because my item didn't sell... nor did I expect them to. If you take the amount of listing fees I spent on items that didn't sell, minus what I "screwed" Ebay out of on Final Value Fees... Ebay still comes out the winner. I do not shed any tears for Ebay nor do I lose any sleep over feelings of guilt. My priorities on selling first goes to the Buyer, then myself. Ebay still makes money on my listings... just not as much!

BTW: On 3 of my posted items, I had questions asked by potential bidders, about the higher shipping costs. I responded to their questions, and posted all correspondence for anyone to see... including Ebay. My answers were along the lines of, "I posted a higher shipping cost to maintain the value of the item but to also minimize Ebay's Final Value Fees". Not once did I have anyone object to this statement, nor did I receive an infraction from Ebay.

Most buyers shouldn't care, which is why no one will be objecting. The only issue will be if someone on this board doesn't like your tone and decides to rat you out to eBay. Some of the people who view these threads are really closely aligned with ebay, either as power sellers, or as fraud police. One of them could go out of their way to rat you out, but I would hope that wouldn't happen.

The fact that ebay has made a profit on you is probably not the best motivation for self-helping yourself to some of their expected profit. At least, it's not particularly persuasive. You found a way around the ebay listing fees. Eventually ebay might catch on and penalize you. Or not. I don't really care one way or the other.

Yeah, I don't really care either... that's why I had no problem listing my Ebay ID on here. If Ebay deems me a terrorist and cancels my account... Oh well! As long as I'm open an honest with the Buyer and they are happy...I'm happy. It doesn't hurt to make a little cash either!!;)

Paul, Mike,

Fair enough.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to exert my will, or values on anyone else. I was just expressing my opinions.

My two cents....it is silly to argue about a $4 shipping charge, unless it comes in a plain, white envlope with a 44 cent stamps. I know buyers want shipping as cheap as possible, but the only way I know of to ship it cheaply is to affix a stamp and an address label straight on the PSA slab itself (and even then, I think the slab is considered too small to just put a stamp on and mail it by itself).

Jim,

I respect your opinion and you make valid points, not just on this thread but others that I've read as well. I don't get to participate much in this forum since I know very little about pre-war cards so I thought I would jump in and share my recent experiences with Ebay regarding shipping practices. Although we share different opinions on this, I appreciate the honesty and keeping everything civil. You're a top notch guy and I look forward to reading more of your posts. BTW... this helps my posting percentages as well! Check it out Leon!!!

Mike,

You'll always be OK with me... ever since you made that crack about divorcing a "crack head stripper."

You've got equity for life, with me.

I wish I was joking on that one... unfortunately, it was the truth. Boy, do I have some stories for you.... maybe down the road when things are slow on here! May God Bless!

Actually in the Ebay universe it goes something like this:

5 stars = Good
4 stars = Very Bad
3 stars = Very, very bad
2 stars = Incredibly, viciously bad
1 star = You should probably spend some time in prison, and think about what you did.

Somehow I accumulated several 1 or 2 star scores on my Shipping cost DSR's, despite an overall average of 4.9 in that category and lost my Ebay seller discount.

I have no idea which items I scored low on, who left the low scores, and have no idea how to make it right, since the people who left those scores never made their dissatisfaction with my shipping charges known to me.

:confused:

It was probably your competitors trying to drive you off Ebay.