T206 Wagner proof strip now in Philly...
 

Please forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but the T206 Wagner proof strip is now available for viewing at Citizens Bank Park in Philly...

It appears that it will be auctioned off at the FanFest this summer.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/spor...#axzz0oLpvXTPH

Have a good one,
Steve

hopefully there will be some coverage of the auction.... i've never heard of this proof strip but would love to see it and watch the auction action

i wondered if one of the card doctors performed their work on this Wagner(in secret ofcourse, Like the PSA 8 :) and SGC graded it a 9, what the outcome would look like?

i saw this strip last time around, still can't believe it only sold in $200,000 range?

Yes, at this time in auction market, i can't wait to see the outcome!

Even though the strip isn't in the best shape,it is a true one of a kind.Imagine that in your collection!!!:cool:

Clayton

Is the backs(s) blank on the test strip?

I've never seen the back of it,but I'm almost 100% sure it's blank.

Clayton

I'll be there for the phestival on Monday. Guess I'll bring a couple hundred grand extra with me.

Wagner strip q
 

Has anyone seen an off-center version of either of the surrounding cards that has a sliver of Wagner (or a replacement card) at the edge?

Rumor has it that Wagner used to carry this around in his back pocket. Don't know how true that is. But I have known about this "card" for at least 25 years now.

I don't know about that, but it was found in the attic of a home formerly owned by Wagner. It was probably given to him to try to encourage him to sign on to the project.
JimB

I remember seeing an ad for this in SCD about 15 years ago and the seller was asking a million for it.
Anyone remember who the seller was?

Was it Leland's?

I believe Solomon Cramer auctioned it a number of years back.

Regarding this "strip", excuse me for being a "kiljoy"....but,
 

these proof cards look to me as having been pasted together on a horizontal strip. The reasons for my skepticism are as follows......

(1) The Wagner's colors are complete, while the colors of the other 4 subjects are incomplete (this is a printing impossibility).

........Wagner's collar is blue, but the other 4 collars are not.

........CYoung's uniform has no color and his background is a pale green (it's missing the final blue ink to darken it)

(2) There are NO lines between cards on an uncut sheet, panel, or strip....what you see here are 5 individual cards.


No siree, this is not a production type uncut strip of five T206 cards.



TED Z

As usual...
 

great observations, Ted. Wish I could see them in person to get a firsthand look - but I won't be heading down to a Phillies game for a little while this season.

Its very likely that this was a test strip, in which they were experimenting with different colors, and the final T206 colors were very different from this test/experimentation piece. So the colors don't bother me. And I don't think you could paste together several cards without there being some evidence of an actual seam, real T206's dont' have this line, but pasted cards would have a seam, so this is clearly one piece of paper with test markings on it. And who would take a Wagner and paste it with some other cards? It sold for only $200k, a strip card is probably less valuable than a stand alone Wag. That theory doesn't add up. This is a legit T206 test strip. It has its oddities and we'll never know its full history, but it isn't fake or manufactured IMO.

Good call Ted, albeit an easy one. I agree totally. What gave it away to me were the lines, your keen observations on the colors make it completely obvious!

once again great job

M's Fan
 

Sorry to disagree with you, but those vertical lines between the cards are seams. This improvised strip was done in 1909
for whatever purposes. Bill Zimplemann discovered it in Wagner's estate near Pittsburgh several decades ago..

And, the inconsistent colors should bother you, because each inking phase of the 6-color process in printing these cards
was applied simultaneously on all cards on a given sheet, panel, or strip.

Finally, your.."And who would take a Wagner and paste it with some other cards?"..is laughable. In 1909 a T206 Wagner
was no different than a T206 Wilhelm.


TED Z

I can't explain the lack of color,or the seams,but I can see what M's Fan means by it appearing to be one piece of paper-when you look at the wear between the Young and the Kling,it appears to be one piece.Wouldn't the wear be peeling away down the middle,exposing a paste job?

I've not yet seen any other example of uncut T206 sheets to compare this to,has anyone else?

Clayton

As I recall it was found in the pocket of a pair of pants in Wagner's home. I think that is probably where the "carry it around in his back pocket" came from.

I also believe it is a single sheet of printed cards, I do not believe that they are 5 seperate cards pasted together.

They don't look like seams to me, but I haven't examined the card in person. Does anyone have a scan of the back?

Again, that is assuming the normal printing processes of T206. I'm just saying that it is quite likely that this test strip was an experimentation piece, where all bets are off. The printer could have been experimenting with all sorts of color processes and sequences.

I was thinking that someone wouldn't have done this in modern era, I wasn't considering that someone would have done this in 1909. I was thinking that in the modern era, someone with a valuable Wagner wouldn't risk everything to gain so little by attaching it to a sheet. It doesn't make the card more valuable, based on its recent auction. It doesn't add up to me, but I'm admittedly just going on my gut feeling here.

But I really can't see why someone would have done it in 1909 either now that you mention it for the reasons you stated, nobody cared much about these cards in 1909, so why, in 1909, would anyone bother to attach them to a sheet with the precision of an accomplished card doctor? That someone did this back in the early 1900's is even more unlikely, and actually quite laughable, to borrow a phrase...

Hi-
I was able to look at this strip a number of years ago when Steve Verkman owned it (or was holding it for the owner). I examined it at one of the Shriner's Wilmington MA shows. I do not recall it feeling/looking like it was made up of several cards pasted onto a strip, but my memory is not the greatest. Perhaps an email to Steve might clear up some of the confusion (or start it anew).
Yours in collecting,
Alan Elefson

FYI....this so-called strip is blank-backed.

Upon magnification, you will find that the vertical lines between the cards are actually seams.

Regarding your...." nobody cared much about these cards in 1909, so why, in 1909, would anyone bother
to attach them to a sheet with the precision of an accomplished card doctor? "

This is a very naive comment, there is tons of documentation that tells us how popular these cards were
when they were initially available in 1909. Especially, the major stars of that era (Cobb, Johnson, Lajoie,
Matty, Wagner, CYoung, etc).

And, to the 2nd part of your comment....It didn't require a "card doctor" to craft this strip. The employees
at American Lithograph were high quality craftsman.
It is rumored that this 5-card strip was specifically crafted as a sample piece given to Wagner prior to the
T206 market launch.

Anyhow, I will be traveling down to Citizens Bank Park to catch a Phillies game and get a close up look at
this piece.


TED Z

I should have phrased my comment better, the cards were popular, but certainly not considered valuable back in 1909-1911. Many people threw the cards away, many gave the cards to kids (who would beg for them outside tobacco shops). So the cards were popular (especially with kids), yes, but not valuable enough for someone to go to the great lengths of creating a fake strip card in hopes of monetary gain. I admit that this is just my opinion, its always possible that someone did that, I'm just saying it seems highly unlikely to me.

This is possible, but it seems highly unlikely to me that someone would go to the trouble of making a strip card and hiding the seams. Even if you have the skill to do this, why would you? Wagner won't care if there are seems on his sample. And why even bother to cut cards and then make a strip for Wagner? Why not just easily paste them on a sheet of paper side by side? It just doesn't add up to me that someone would go to this effort, there seems to me no reason to do so. But maybe there is a reason they did it that we don't know of.

Let us know how it looks in person, wish I could take a look at this curious piece!

Ted- I've seen the card in person, too, and not sure I can agree with you on this one... at least to the point it is pasted together. What I recall, and what is somewhat evident in the scan, is that the crosshairs on the cards side stretch into each other, overlap, and I believe one is double struck. In order for the pasting theory to hold water, the cards would have needed to be pasted together, then re-run through the printing process in order to get the cross hairs to line up perfectly and overlap each other. Individually printed cards would not create this same effect. Again, while I could see it would be plausible to get all of the crosshairs to line up if cards were individually printed and then pasted together, it would be impossible to get the overlapping crosshairs unless they were printed after the cards were reattached.

I dunno Ted...compared to the other Wagner's it certainly seems to be missing some or all of the blue.

The seams or lines are sure strange. it would be great to see up close and in person.

I have never seen the piece in person, however there are a few things that stand out to me-
It seems like there is chipping between the Bowerman and Young cards (upper half) right along where the two cards would come together. The crease to the right of the Young card also seems to follow perfectly where the two cards would meet. I would guess seperate cards due to those two items and the difference in colors.

unrelated question- Why does it appear if there are lighter circles underneath all of the printers marks?

Edited to change my opinion.

Looking really closely at the cards below and other examples of the Wagner, it appears the underlying color of the collar is black and not white or gray like the others. So at first look it appears that Wagner's collar has had the color application and the others have not, but it is missing the blue as well.

The images could have been printed simultaneously.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_UrSHvogCrmM/S_...0Updated21.jpg

I saw the strip in person on a regular basis- it was part of the Halper Collection and when I was a cataloguer at Sotheby's during that time it was there. My memory is it was one continuous strip, but it has been over ten years since I last saw it.

Here's a link to it selling at Mastro/Oser back in Aug. 2002 for over $78k. I recall some T3 proofs having a different look than their standard issue counterparts - slight variations in color, perhaps a crisper image.

Now if Bowerman and Wags had only switched places, lookout!

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=27422

Here's a large image of Wagner's collar where you can see the underlying color is black with a blue layer applied on top.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_UrSHvogCrmM/S_...g%20Collar.jpg

Tim - very nice layout of the strip and the individual cards in the same order. Thanks for putting it together - makes it very easy to compare and think.

J

Without getting into wether it's a pasteup or not - And I'm on the fence about that- I can point out why someone would make a pasteup like that.

It's an old sales tool to drop names, even if the names dropped haven't signed or bought yet. Some old sales letters will mention well known personalities or companies that use the product, and yes it's underhanded, but some of those people or companies didn't ever buy the product.

So lets say you're trying to get Wagner to sign so you could use his image.
You send a letter saying something like "all the greatest players have agreed to be in the set". And along with that you send a sample. That sample can go a couple ways depending on the individual. Someone with a big ego that was very public say Reggie Jackson? You'd probably just include his own card. For most people you'd want to include their card plus a few others. Just like on this strip. Young is a good choice unless Wagner doesn't like him personally. Brown is also a good choice, one of the better pitchers, and also a national leaguer. Both those choices play to the ego, if Young and Brown are in the set most guys would want to be there as well. Bowerman and Kling seem like odd choices, maybe there were more sample strips and the better players got used up. OR maybe Bowerman and Kling were guys that were friends with Wagner or players he respected for some reason. I don;t know enough about Wagner or Bowerman and Kling to feel at all sure.

What doesn't quite fit this idea is Wagner being anywhwere other than the center of the strip. That's where I'd put him if the strip was a pasteup targeted towards him.

Totallly unsupported guess? If it's a pasteup maybe it was Bowermans and Wagner got it from him when he heard about the cards that he hadn't agreed to be on?

Pasteups like this would also be used to arrange the final sheet layout once all the designs had been approved either by the player portrayed or the printers art department. or both. I think modern cards have a whole crew of approvals required.

Steve B

Great observations Steve!

I too have seen this strip and the printers marks do cross over. I believe it to be not made made a talented craftsman from any era.

Rawn

Steve
 

This was my understanding and what I stated regarding this 5-card strip back in post #24......

"It is rumored that this 5-card strip was specifically crafted as a sample piece given to Wagner prior to the T206 market launch."

Your story is an excellent elaboration on what has been rumored about this Wagner strip. Thanks for posting it.


TED Z

It doesn't look like any sort of normal proof to me.

I see the cross marks, and it is obvious that all of the color isn't there. Those features seem consistent with proofs.

What looks wrong to me are those lines that Ted mentions. If card stock had been used to print proofs there would be no vertical lines where the cards would have been separated. In looking at the places where it looks like the cards have lost their surface, it makes me think that what was printed there was printed on paper, not on card stock. Then, those pieces of paper were assembled onto a piece of card stock.

I do think it is something that would have come out of the shops of American Lithograph. But it looks assembled because of those lines. If it was just a proof on card stock, then there would be no vertical lines where the cards would be cut, there would only be the proof cross marks.

I saw the strip back in 1999 and I too believe it is one continuous strip of cards but I was not inspecting it for that purpose.

Maybe when Wagner was asked his permission to appear in the set, he simply asked them to send a sample so he could see what they looked like before he made up his mind. And then the printers hastily sent him something.

FYI....here are some examples of pre & post-war Salesman's Samples. Such BB card promotional samples (throughout the years)
have preceded new issues. And for obvious reasons, they are always standard production examples of the actual BB cards.

This 5-card (Wagner) "strip" in no way represents a standard production of T206's. In my opinion, it was hastily cobbled together
with individual FRONTS of T206's to provide Wagner a sample of his card.... prior to the T206 production run in the Spring of 1909.
And, as Steve B alluded to, 4 other players were discretely selected from American Litho's T206 proof pile and added to compose
this strip.....perhaps, in order to sway Wagner to grant them the rights to include him in this set.

From what we know about how T206's were printed, a true production uncut horizontal strip of T206's would comprise of at least
6 cards.....and, without lines between these cards, or the alignment cross-hair markings.

No one here has yet presented a plausible argument regarding this "strip" to convince me (and some others), otherwise.



<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/39pb54b59flpromosamples.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/39pb54b59flpromosamplesb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


TED Z

I'm skeptical of the theory that American Litho made or sent this strip to Wagner for his approval or to sway him into being included in the set.

If you were trying to sway Wagner would you send him an incomplete product? Or would you run the additional colors and send him an example of a finished product?

I think the fact that several people who have seen it in person think it is a strip means something.

Ted have you not seen this in person.

I know something about the prodruction process and I can tell you that there are times when there is one or a few things done differently from everything else.

Also if this was not a strip I don't know why it wouldn't be removed and sold as single cards. This has always sold for less then single Wagners and I think as a single card the Wagner would sell for more then the strip has.

James G

Well, Tim......
 

1st......the story says this strip was in Wagner's estate until it was discovered in the 1970's..............Do you accept this ?

2nd...."off the bat", Wagner claimed he did not want to be any part of these tobacco cards. But, he was one of the most
popular BB players in that era; and, ATC wanted to include him in their new set of premiums....I think we know this is so ?

3rd.....this strip has all the makings of a HASTILY conceived attempt to persuade Mr Wagner to sign onto ATC's designs.
Again, I have to repeat what STEVE B has very astutely suggested......

"For most people you'd want to include their card plus a few others. Just like on this strip. Young is a good choice unless
Wagner doesn't like him personally. Brown is also a good choice, one of the better pitchers, and also a national leaguer.
Both those choices play to the ego, if Young and Brown are in the set most guys would want to be there as well."

Finally, Tim regarding your........
"If you were trying to sway Wagner would you send him an incomplete product? Or would you run the additional colors and
send him an example of a finished product? "

ATC was ready to go into production with these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1909 and this was a pre-production "selling
sample" that they cobbled together at the last moment....at least Wagner's picture is virtually complete.


In any event, I personally feel that if we can date this piece to being a pre-production T206 artifact, it should garner a value
equal to (or greater than) any similar Wagner card.

However, to date it has not, nor will it....until it is professionally SLABBED....this is too bad !



TED Z

The lack of blue looks to be uniform across all five cards. But color variations from proof to final versions do not bother me. They probably had not yet made final decisions on colors, etc. But they were close enough to use this to try to entice Wagner to sign on. It is evident that this would be a high quality set with a nice depiction of him, were he to agree to be a part of it.
JimB

I tend to think it is a strip, not pasted together, but honestly I don't think it really matters. It is five proofs, including Wagner, with provenance tracing back to Wagner himself!!! I have always been surprised that it has not sold for more. Condition must be the major factor in lower than anticipated pricing. That may change some day.
JimB

JimB
 

As I said......

" In any event, I personally feel that if we can date this piece to being a pre-production T206 artifact,
it should garner a value equal to (or greater than) any similar Wagner card.
However, to date it has not, nor will it....until it is professionally SLABBED....this is too bad ! "


Watch it's value rise to Big, Big $$$$$$, if some one convinces a Grading Co. to SLAB it.


TED Z

From the pic, it looks like a pasted up item to me. However, that doesn't mean it isn't genuine. By definition, proofs are pre-final production tests and are apt to be different than normal.

Ted -

Yes I agree with the points you have made. It's a fascinating piece and I also agree that once it's slabbed by a grading service the price will go way up.

Ok I don't have nearly the knowledge of some of you in this thread, but I gotta ask: How is a proof strip supposed to convince Wagner to sign on?

I realize there are all sorts of theories about the motive of Wagner's opposition, but the assumption that this strip was a negotiation dangle probably could use a check.

It's possible Wagner wanted to see what the cards looked like before he made a decision.

So Ted, Can we expect you to be the buyer this summer??

I would expect this to be valued more then the individual card for 2 reasons, the first being, this is the only known example of the strip versus 60 regular Wagner cards, and two- the provenance, knowing that the Wagner estate was the owner.

A grading company would be silly not to want to slab this... what company wouldn't want their name on the most limited, unique and possible best find in the past 30 years?

then again, what do i know? :confused::confused:

Regarding the provenance:

Is this just an oral provenance or is it in writing somewhere by the estate? In the collecting world, provenace is only as good as the paper it's written on.

Can/Has anyone ever traced it back to its origins?...or was it just placed in an auction description? Would be interesting to know.

I think a piece so historically significant would need a rock solid backing.

That implies that the look of the cards had something to do with Wagner's decision. I have a hard time believing he'd care.

Ted - you and I know each other fairly well and I certainly defer to you on many T206 subjects (in fact, probably most). However, I'm curious as to how you might be able to offer an alternative explanation for the overlapping and double-stike proof marks?

Even if you could imagine all 5 cards being precisely cut so that they could be pasted on a strip together in such a way that all proof marks line up (I'm sure that would be an extremely difficult process itself), it still doesn't explain the "double-struck" proof mark.

I was siding with the full printed strip theory, but after staring at it for a bit a few things still have me questioning the possibility of this. First, I would assume the red "B" missing on Bowerman's jersey would also mean Kling and Brown would be lacking their red background color, but clearly it's present. One possibility is that team names were reserved for a separate printing plate, to make necessary changes if a player was traded etc. ATC may have had a multi-year release in mind upon T206's inception.

Second, I've had some truly wretched T206 beaters in my day, but something just looks off in some of those creases - almost as if there is some sort of material composite going on. Look at the upper right corner of Brown - it appears as if a portion of the "top layer" is folded over, touching the edge of Wagner's border.

Third - the toning of the white borders. I've witnessed the discoloring various glues can cause on paper, especially over time - these borders just lack the brilliance most T206's possess. Obviously without card in hand, or a decent hi-res scan, it's difficult to tell. I'm also curious as to what the lightened areas under the proof marks are? To me the borders should be that color, and the rest has been toned down due to the introduction of some sort of adhesive to the reverse. It's possible these "proofs" were printed on thin paper stock, not the usual thicker stock which I believe had some sort of clay coating on the front - hence the lack of brilliance or "pop" in color on the cards.

Just some observations. Regardless, it's an amazing piece - I remember being in awe as a 12yr old when I first saw a pic of it...

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_UrSHvogCrmM/S_...0Updated21.jpg[/QUOTE]

Unless you have seen this strip, I don't see how you can comment as to it's authenticity. Conjecture as to it's origins are most welcome. Again I have seen this and am very comfortable with saying that it was printed as some sort of sample and not a conjured piece by some card doctor.

Not an expert, just my observations.

Rawn

How is that the Brown, Wagner, Young, and Kling have multiple heavy creases, but the Bowerman is nearly crease free?

For the record I definitely think it's vintage, not some contemporary card doctor frankenstein - just not sure it was printed as one sheet or pieced together. It would be very east to tell in person.

That Wagner crease to me looks like several instances of folding and opening - maybe the story about finding it in Wag's pocket in the attic is legit?

I have never seen this in person myself, but all of the board members who have seen it in person have pretty much the same opinion on it--that it appears to be one solid strip, and not some type of paste job.

Clayton

I'm not sure about how much control the players had or cared to have back then. I do know that Wagner had enough clout to get the card pulled for whatever reason you care to go with- didn't get paid, didn't get paid enough, didn't want kids to have to buy tobacco, didn't like the picture. Whatever reason it did get pulled.

Today you'd find it hard to believe the players would care what their card looks like, but they do. Some very much so, and every player signs off on every one of their cards, either personally, or by proxy (Mlbpa, agent etc.)
That's a big part of what the companies have to go through as part of the proofing process.

steve B

Who once spent an entire Saturday looking for 50 perfect college faculty guides out of a print run of 5000. Each faculty member got a guide, and they couldn't have any chance of a tiny print defect on any of the pictures.

Jon
 

I'm not sure I understand your "overlaping" comment ?

The cross-hair proof marks are very precise ID's for aligning the 6-color registration process in the printing of these cards.
Therefore, when these cards are placed adjacent to each other, I fully expect these marks to be in perfect alignment from
card to card.

Everyone has to realize that this is a pre-production piece. These are not completed cards, but thin-film like FRONTS that
I claim were affixed on a horizontal strip. Again, I repeat, the inconsistency of the colors of these 5 cards with respect to
each other is a total PRINTING IMPOSSIBILITY. I dare anyone to show me an UNCUT sheet, or strip with "crazy" colors as
these; and, lines between the cards ? ? ? ?


Regarding your last statement......."Even if you could imagine all 5 cards being precisely cut so that they could be pasted
on a strip together in such a way that all proof marks line up (I'm sure that would be an extremely difficult process itself)"

Jon....we are talking about the foremost Lithographic Co. in America back then. These printers were world class craftsmen.
This "junk" that we are mulling over here is incidental compared to the large pieces of complex artwork that they produced
on a daily basis during that era.


TED Z

Ted - the "overlapping" proof marks I'm talking about appear on the strip and are easier to see in person than on the small scan. In short, the proof marks between two of the cards have a double set of proof marks - in other words, one set was printed, and then another set was printed almost on top of the previous set, but just slightly askew so there is the smallest of gaps between them. In order for the "pasted" theory to hold water in my opinion, the strip would have had to be pasted together, then run through the printing process again after being pasted together, and the result would have been the slightly overlapping proof mark. I just can't see another way for the overlapping printers proof marks to appear on the strip if the strip was, indeed, pasted together.

Jon
 

I'm sorry, but I don't see what you are alluding to, on the scan shown here.

But, more significantly, don't the following abnormalities trouble you........ ?

(1).....In the 6-color process used by American Litho. to print these cards, RED is the very last color to
be applied....yet Brown and Kling are Red; however, Bowerman is missing the Red "B" on his uniform.

(2).....CYoung's uniform color is missing, yet the other 4 cards have their normal uniform colors.

And Jon, please tell me when (if ever) you have seen any white-bordered card with VERTICAL LINES
printed on them ?

Regards,

TED Z

Good point on the printed vertical lines Ted - it is odd. There does seem to be some very minor chipping or flaking along the vertical border between Bowerman and Young, revealing a lighter paper stock underneath. This doesn't appear to have been caused by creasing, as seen on the vertical line between Young and Kling. One could assume this is caused by two images glued next to each other and experiencing similar wear over 100 years.

Have at it:

http://www.huntauctions.com/live/ima...=242&lot_qual=

Ted Z and others...........
 

Ted Z and others, I can shed a little light on this proof strip. Back in 1978 Bill Zimpleman, Mike Wheat, Ken Blazek, and myself, Wayne Varner were on a buying trip in the Pittsburgh area and we purchased this strip from a gentleman who had purchased Wagner's house. We bought a number of items he found in the house. I cannot remember all the details, but after we purchased the strip, we had a drawing, and I won the strip. I sold it in 1980 to Barry Helper, who to my knowledge owned the strip until he passed away. I can tell you from holding the strip many times, it is not cards pasted together. Could that have been done at the factory and then potographed to send to Wagner, possibly, but not likely. However it was done, it was definately done at the factory, and has the proof lines like all the proof cards I have ever seen. I have seen the strip on several occasions since Barry passed away and it is in the same orginial condition as when I owned it from 1978 until 1980. There is no question it is orginial and unaltered no matter what anyone says. Hope this helps a little.

Wayne Varner
SHOEBOX CARDS

This strip has been around for quite awhile. Not sure about how many auctions, but sold a few times also. I think it is one strip, not put together. Myself It would be hard to believe Wagner had anything to do with this strip. Carried in his back pocket, I don't believe that. I just think it is a proof example of what was going to be produced later. I think Wayne would be the expert on the strip since he owned it at one time. There are quite a few newcomers that have not seen the strip and are speculating about it. That's alright but it is not new business.

joe

Barry Halper sold the strip in 1999 through Sotheby's, which was of course many years before his death. Now that it is slabbed, it will be interesting to see how much of premium it will sell for over previous sales.

Hello Wayne, and thanks for posting.

Is that strip on paper, card stock, what? Same thickness as a T206, thinner, thicker??

Frank W

Frank, as I recall, and that was 30 years ago since I actually held it in my hands, it was regular card stock. It definately was not thin paper.

good thing - then we'd call it a Coupon :D

Thanks Wayne
 

Thanks Wayne, for chiming in. It wasn't that bad to post on a message board, was it? I can't wait to see you and Bill again at the National. Ya'll are some of my favorite guys to just sit and chat with. If I am lucky I will catch ya'll eating breakfast again and pull up a chair. Welcome to the board (I know you have read it but joining in is more fun). Say hi to Bill for me.....best regards

btw, GREAT info on the Wags strip too!!!

Thanks Leon, just thought I could add some facts since I owned it for 2 years and others are just seeing it from their computer. It is real and it is a neat piece. I was happy to sell it to Barry, as it meant more to him at the time than it did to me, but I wished I had kept it now.

Wayne,

Welcome to the Net54 forum. See you in Baltimore.

Is this the same strip that Al Rosen used to have? I remember seeing something like this at I believe a Fort Washington show back in the 80's. I think he was asking 2M for it.

Kary, yes its the same strip.
Was advertised in SCD in several issues as well w/ the hefty price tag

This is one of those items that every auction house will end up featuring at one time or another. Mastro sold it in 2002. Hunt in 2010. Who's going to be next ? REA ? Heritage ? Memory Lane ? Maybe this topic is a a good poll ? :D

hunt auction
 

I haven't read through the entire thread so I don't know if this has already been posted, but the strip card is in the current Hunt catalog, lot 242. It is slabbed by SGC as authentic.