Red Hindu Challenge!
 

A couple of forum members claim that common player PSA 1 red Hindu cards can be had easily for $500. I clearly disagree. In fact, im going to put my money where my mouth is on this one. I will pay $500 cash on all PSA 1 / SGC 20 common player red Hindus that im offered up to 10 cards. Thats right. I have $5,000 in cash just waiting for the "endless" PMs to start rolling in. Chances are 99% that I dont get a chance to buy a single card at this price within the next 3 month span. Let the offers begin!:D

I have an SGC A, but not a number grade :(

Good luck w/your purchases!
Rob
:)

If you're looking only on Net54, your chances are slim. More collectors here than sellers, and those that do sell on occasion may not want to sell just so you can prove a point to others... Try some auctions outside of eBay and a show or two....sure to find a few for that price. Or maybe make an offer on some of the crazy priced ones on eBay. Won't hurt.

You also are basing your opinion on only 2 months of being in the hobby, while many of us here have been doing this for a quarter century, and others half a century....

It's nice to see that you have approached this board with a renewed maturity.

Im basing my opinion not on 2 months of being in the hobby (its closer to 5 actually) but rather on realized CURRENT pricing. I went to the Chicago Sun Times show in March. 150 dealers, 0 red hindus. I scour ebay constantly. Other than the two way overpriced BINs and the card with half the back missing, there have been no red hindus. There are only a couple lots with red hindus in the current 2 major auctions (1 lot features 8 cards). I dont think you are giving enough credit to how rare this variation actually is. To say it can be had in PSA 1 with any frequency at $500, and then to tell me you know this because you have collected baseball cards for 25+ years only shows me one thing. That you have not been tracking the recent sales and very scarce availability of this particular card. I'd like to see a couple of real world auction/sales data thats recent that support your claim.

I just don't think you'll ever understand...

Chicago,
Just so you know...two years ago at least three different red hindus sold in auctions for less than $300 each. Last year, I know that one sold for less than $500 (I bought it myself). A red hindu in PSA A or 1 can be had for between $400 and $600 in my opinion. Yes, they are rare and they do not come around very often but they are out there.

Just so you know...I will not sell my red hindu. I do suggest that you listen to some of these people as they know what they are talking about.

Joshua

PS I know Brian Cataquet (a well known and respected dealer) has a red hindu mcgraw on his site that he sold for less than $500...not sure how recent but his site has not been up all that long.

Chicago206, is your boat now up for sale?

a few thousand
 

At minimum a few thousand collectors saw this. But it was way back in March....

http://www.b-lauctions.com/site/bid/...etauctionid=74

Someone got a very nice deal on that one Leon! It seems as maybe my offer of $500 per card for 1's is a little strong. Lets see just how many im able to buy at that price point though. My offer stands.

Red Hindu
 

I think there was a buyer's premium added to that Magee, so the sales price was around $550?

I've got a PSA 3 Red Hindu I will sell. Contact me privately if you wish to negotiate on it.

Ron R

Ron, we have negotiated on it. I decided to pass on the 3 because I was happy to buy a nice looking 1 for about half the price. How did you like the Davis 42 by the way?

Chicago206
 

Chi-Town is one of my favorite Towns.

And you have clarified the reasoning as to why it's called Second City.

Now don't you go out with a frown and sell your Drum. :)

Then again, you're a flipper, not a collector ... isn't that what flippers do?

Go for it baby ... take it out of your portfolio, and put it back out on YOUR market! :)

At this point, no matter how much you offer, you may not get any takers. Having the money and willingness to pay doesn't necessarily make you someone that people will want to deal with.

And shouldn't this thread be moved out of B/S/T? With all of the commentary in the original post, it was never a genuine ad, and everytime someone posts, all of the legit B/S/T posts get pushed down. Not really fair to the real buyers and sellers...

There's going to be some excuse no matter how many times you show him a realistic price. He wants to overpay "to make a point" now. This guy makes everything about money. Its really strange considering he did the same exact thing on the CU board. Why throw it out there that $5,000 is burning a hole in your pocket? You're only in this "challenge" because you couldn't help bringing up money and how much you spend in the original thread.

Actually, my offer is genuine. I do have some cash set aside for good buying opportunities. I will buy up to 10 red hindus at my stated offer of $500 each. I have yet to receive a single taker on this offer. Its highly unlikely that I will get any either. I would be THRILLED to add a few to my collection at that price point!

You still just don't get it...no matter what you offer, you may not get any takers at this point. And again, this thread should be locked as when you replied, 3 legit BST threads got pushed down again. This is a conversation thread, not a BST post. If it was a legit BST post, it wouldn't have all of the idiotic commentary about how dumb we all are in the thread starter.

To continue beating this dead horse...I just noticed on ebay there are currently 2 red hindus...a trimmed baker and a gandil vg. The Baker is $3.5K or so and the Gandil $5.5K. Obviously these are overpriced. So what are they worth? At what price point would anyone buy them? What do you think they R worth in today's valuations?

I know that the $5500 Gandil red Hindu was in my crosshairs before....either in a major auction or on card target, I almost went after it at around $3000-3500 I believe. It'll be worth the asking price in 5-10 years, I believe. The $3500 Baker (trimmed to the extreme!!) can't be worth more than 20% of the asking price, can it?

not sure about the Baker but the Gandil was an ebay auction that ended around 3200 and was put back up at the price you see. Also that was when red Hindus were very hot-about 2 years ago-probably a record in VCP.

moved
 

Since this thread keeps bumping more legit ones down, on the BST, I decided to move it here. This does not mean everyone wanting to buy something should post it here on the main page. This is an extraordinary situation....

lol! :)

well
 

I had to say something :) ...so maybe it's not extraordinary but it did kept moving legit BST transactions down, and that wasn't fair to them.

Leon, the reason WHY it kept moving other BST ads down is the running commentary that is completely unnecessary in my ad. I thought it was an "unwritten" rule on the BST that you dont take pot shots at someone else's posting. Dan made that very clear (as did you yourself) in the BST ad that I was selling a number of rare backs. But now you chose to punish me for what is a VERY LEGIT offer to buy red Hindu 1's at $500 each? Its your forum Leon, but some consistancy would be nice.

:rolleyes:

chicagoT206
 

Are you serious? You constantly complain about everything. Just do what most collectors do and read/enjoy this forum. I have been on this site for about 6-7 years and am learning everyday. I have started threads in the past and have asked questions when I am unable to find the answer in the search function. What you don't seem to understand that this forum is not just an internet site. This is a site where people who have known each other for years come to talk cards. People know each other here and "respect" each other. It seems as though everyday you create a new thread, get upset when somebody says something, then you go on ranting about how unfair this site is to you. Please, just stop your bickering. You have really made this site unenjoyable for the past month or so.

Jeff W.

I have stayed neutral about this and will continue, but I would say if eveybody just got off his ass about this then there would be no issues. He posted a valid BST add. Just like we all do, and you all that keep replying (mostly JP) keep bumping it then blame him for your ignorance. Let him be him. If you don't want to deal with him then don't. Don't reply to his threads, BST, or offers. Give stuff time to chill out and regroup.

Kinda like the Old Judge aution thread I started about the T205's in that auction. A few of the carp stirrers immedietly jumped my ass like I said Lew was a bad guy when nothing at all was even remotly geared towards that. After a few legitamite replys I began to understand that his long and spectacular presence in the hobby has lead people to trust him and are willing to pay more for his auctions. Very comforting to know. Didn't need all the BS before that though for no reason.

I think even this won't matter because we all have A$$H:eek:LES (opinions:D)

a solution
 

Maybe you and Chicago need to start a board just for yourselves. That way we don't have to listen to your crap OR his crap. Then we would be that much closer to serenity.

But he only collects T206's:(

Posting a link of a member who was banned? What have I done so horrible as to deserve a ban? I gave my opinion regarding the Cobb/Cobb back (in which both REA ans Scot Reader have also talked about). I disagree about current pricing on a card type. I ask about the actual disparity between the rare backs rankings. I call a fellow member out for trying to use me as leverage to win an auction without my knowing. I post a genuine BST ad in which others who are not interested in conducting that specific transaction ruin it for me.

Exactly what have I done to deserve a ban? I have never threatened anyone in here. I have never been outright disrespectful to anyone here (unless they took a shot at me first). I have not tried to decieve anyone. So what is the reason you would post a link to another member who was bannished?

Phil

Because you irritate the shit out of me.

LOL, good stuff David. :)

agreed w/David...for some reason you are very irritating...to me as well...like a child starved for attention.

Are low grade Red Hindus really over $500 now for a common player?

Wow, I remember when they were only a couple hundred not too long ago...

Must be more back type collectors nowadays.

Ladies and gentlemen...

The erudite Mr. McDonald!


;)

I'm laughing as I type this...

Pissing David off takes a pretty huge effort.

I believe you. But what did I do thats so bad? Really?

Also made me laugh out loud. Almost choked on my lunch.....

It's not you, it's me.

And him.

And him.

And him.

And her.

And him.

And him.

I'm actually not convinced you're not a troll. Perhaps the perfect troll. So annoying that you ruin the board for everyone, but nothing so over-the-top to warrant getting banned outright.

Here’s my take on Phil.

I think Phil is an overzealous investor into this hobby. We know he likes to play with Gold. He also seems to like the Mad Money type approach to talking about his investments… super hype and over discussion etc.

I think Phil is under the impression that if he can discuss something such as one brand back ad nauseum his purchase will grow in value before his own eyes. I think folks like Phil really think this stuff trades on huge swings up and down. When in fact for the most part most all cards trade in relatively known values with very little in the way of huge swings that is unless one holds them for years and years. There are a few exceptions but not many.

I also think Phil is spending big bucks for Phil (nothing wrong with that) even perhaps spending a bit out of his comfort zone? Perhaps having multiple discussions on the board with the same round about message helps justify the purchases. And validate what he’s doing.

With that said most folks on here are horrible card investors as we are collectors and since most folks cards aren’t for sale…it makes it hard to turn a profit. LOL

Most folks also are here to learn and need very little in the way of validation for purchases; very few of us would drop our collection because we had a few bad days on a chat board.

Just my two cents.

Good one! As we know, in this context "March 8" means the same as "the beginning of time". Or at least "the creation of the vintage card collecting hobby".


Here's the sad thing that is being lost. Some of the questions and issues Chx206 raises have good underlying substance - the kind of inquisitive exploration about the hobby that gives veterans a chance to help rookies and anyone else fortunate enough to be listening in. But the tenor of every thread and every post is so incredibly belligerent that no one wants to deal with it, help is barely forthcoming, and others with questions may figure it's just not worth it.

The life of the board is shared knowledge and a common experience. Anything that undermines that process - no matter how well intended - damages the board, IMHO.

Joann

;)

Joann I couldn't agree with your comments more.

I agree, Joann. Very nice summary, especially considering you're in the middle of an "ear bleeding" meeting all day.

Chicago has asked some valid questions in the past, but the "tone" (as such there is on a message board), obscures any validity.

Rob makes an excellent point. If everywhere you go it's you against the world, maybe the world isn't the problem.

Take half the time you invest in defending yourself and spend it reflecting on how the board views your tone and with a little tweaking you may contribute without it evolving into something other than a discussion about vintage baseball cards.

I had to stop the process of clawing my own ears off long enough to have lunch. Back at it though! :(

J

I once learned that, when playing poker, if you've played more than three hands and haven't figured out who the sucker at the table is...


It's you.

He only irritates you because you guys keep poking the bear with a stick.... leave him alone and i am sure he will be less annoying to you.

All seems kinda silly to me, on both sides of the fence. Every guy wants the last word, and it just keeps the ball rolling!

Now im going back to my corner and hiding.........

A problem I see is that everyone is using non precise language in this topic. To someone who has been around the hobby for a long time Red Hindus do not seem rare. Hell you said there are currently a couple of lots available. If your definition of rare is "I can't buy one in the specified grade after looking for a week" that will be different than mine which is more on the order of "I really hope one comes up for sale this year since none came up for sale in the last two years."

This isn't just for the OP, but back to the never ending discussion of what is rare. An N167 is rare, a Red Hindu is not.

I also think wonka had some good points.

"Rare" is a relative term by its very nature. Compared to a Piedmont or Sweet Cap, the red Hindu is exceedingly rare. Compared to an Uzit, or a Drum, the red Hindu is simply an "also ran". Since we have no definitive parameters for the term "rare" as applied to card collecting, its going to always be a confusing description. One person's rare is another's scarce, is another's common. To me, any red Hindu is a rare entity when compared to all of the T206 cards still in existence. If there are still 1,000,000 total T206 cards surviving in all grades/backs/and players, certainly the red Hindu version makes up far less than 1% of the total population, and quite possibly even far less than 1/2 of 1% (fewer than 5,000 total cards). That pretty much qualifies as "rare" when taken in context.

You keep claiming that your ad was sincere and wonder why people were annoyed with it. If your ad was sincere, why not just say you were looking to pick up a Red Hindu at X price? Why did you make the decision to try to turn it into a "look how dumb these guys are!" post? Call a spade a spade. You picked a fight over card prices after you once again turned card collecting into this is how much I paid and this is how much money I have laying around for more cards. I don't think anyone is interested in either. And every time someone posts an example of the cards falling in the range speculated on, your response is "someone got a good deal on that card" which is exactly our point.

No matter where you go on the internet there will be posters like Chicago. They scream for attention. We've seen it in various forms here on Net54. They all have their different personalities, but starting a confrontational B/S/T ad?? That's Bruce's territory. I don't even know what to say about posting a video of a 3 year old reeling off tobacco company names.

So its ok to use money to make a point about existing BL460 backs, but an absolute no-no to make a point about current pricing with a very sincere offer to pay for certain examples? Please clarify the difference between MY offer and TED's offer.

Ted doesn't suck all the air out of the room.

Ted was offering a reward for info about cards that he is fairly certain do not exist...he was doing it to make a point. He also has a long history in this hobby as a researcher, author, and collector. Your short history seems to be pissing everyone off on the CU boards, trekking over to our board and doing the same thing in short order.

Let's try it this way --- every time you post, we all hear screaming, whining, complaining in your text. You could write the same sentence as any of us, and have it come off entirely different. That is because your personality on here is the worst most of us have seen in years. We all think you're a complete joke. So even if you had something valid to contribute, it would look like it was coming from the biggest fool in the room --

-- you have no credibility and have lost the ability to gain any credibility in the short term.

If you put it in that context I guess it could qualify as rare, but in the the context of card collecting I wouldn't consider something that had 5,000 examples rare. Despite what it looks like today, this board is a vintage baseball card board, not a T206 board.

So many people complain that there is too many T206 posts on here, but I dont understand why. If there is so much interest in other sets, wouldnt there be just as many posts about them? Nobody is keeping non-T206 posts from being posted, so lets get some threads going on them and BE CONSTRUCTIVE with them lol. Enough negativity! Again, just my 2 cents. Im running out of pocket change here people!

Sorry to come off as negative. My point was that while it might be a rare t206, when you say it is a rare baseball card, many would disagree since in the larger context of the board it is not a rare vintage card.

If people want to talk about t206 cards that is perfectly fine. I have said way too much it is time for me to shut up. Take care, bye.

I think T206 collectors for the most part don't even consider the Honus Wagner card to be rare.

If it wasnt for the internet, there would be a TON of "rare" cards, that we dont consider rare now. The ease of a quick Google search can find you just about any card you want to find these days, if you look hard enough.

That may be a fact. However, as I stated earlier, "rare" is a relative term.

Joann - good post. This is exactly my take, and I believe many veterans are shaking their heads in agreement as well. Is the board damaged? I believe so. Beyond repair? Time will tell.

If I had a red Hindu to sell, it'd go to anyone but you for $300.

damaged?
 

Definitely damaged beyond repair. I want a refund....

This board survived Adam Moraine, Peter Chao's inanity, Marshall Barkman's ~NOIZE!!!!1~ and it will survive the Chicago kid.

I REALLY try hard not to get into these types of fights BUT I view this T206Chicago guy like most do as a bit of a tough character to want to stick-up for.

I have a hard time putting my finger on exactly why he annoys the hell out of me but the closest I can come is this...

We all have groups of fairly close-knit friends that we may even have inside jokes with, and along comes a guy that wants to be part of that group and his way of doing that involves dominating all the conversation even when he doesn't know what the heck he is even talking about. We've all experienced this at one time or another.

He comes off as a guy that hasn't done any due deligence in researching but makes assinine comments that don't even warrant a response. His childish reactions to everything just make me cringe.

When you have a few hundred of the most knowledgable collectors in the world gathered together here on this forum and a relative nube (w/ at most 5 months in the vintage hobby altogether) trying to dominate the conversation it just annoys the hell out of us!

-Rhett

Wagner isn't rare however the 750-1mm+ dollars to get a nice example seems to be tougher to come by... :rolleyes:

Leon ... with each post, I'm beginning to luv this thread more and more ...
 

Here's what I'm getting from the kind, and understanding folks of this forum.

In so many words, they are saying ... build a seperate forum for the special breed.

Let's call it ... The Cat Walk for Tender Skin Pussy Cats.

Build it, and they will come. :)

Good point John...

There are a bunch of "common" HOF'er cards I cant afford, except in "rare" situations. Sorry couldnt resist.

Hey Joe,
Maybe Leon can alter the signup page with a box to check that says "Does not play well with others". We will know who to look out for then!

And maybe tweak the software so that you arent allowed an opinion until you can prove you have been collecting for at least 25 years!:D

Good one Chicago..
 

I try not to make any direct statements about vintage because I dont have the money or collection to back up anything I might say. I collect, therefore I am. ????????

It's not that you can't be new to the hobby or board and post. I for one wish more of the knowledgeable lurkers and new people to the hobby would post.

But it would help if they did a quick search before they posted and if they couldn't find the answer to their question create a new thread with a polite question and let the knowledge come to them.

Unfortunately these flare ups dissuade many from getting involved.

Opinions, and the problem with this LAD is .....
 

*

Simply stated, he's an amateur. ..... He can't handle an opposing opinon. :)

All I can say is that I have been reading these boards for what has to be 5 years or more. I dont often chime in because I have acknowledged that there are people on these boards who have far more understanding of pre-war than I will ever have. I log on, read the boards, absorb information, gain knowledge, post occasionally and appreciate everyone here. But I have to tell you Phil has worn out his welcome on every board he has been on. To him its all about the money he has to throw around.

So in my best south side Chicago accent because I know thats where you live....

Phil, we get it..you have some money to trow around and you have that HUGE sout side ego you need to feed. Just get this tru your thick freaking head...don't come on here talking bout da cards you know nutting about yet. Absorb information and den make a contriBUtion worth writin' about. Now go get yourself a polish and a RC cola for dinner and relax!!

Andrew,

Thanks for the RC reference. One of my fondest collecting memories is drinking rivers of that stuff in the summers of 1977 and '78 in an attempt to collect complete sets of 70 and 100 cans, respectively. Displayed them pyramid style on top of a bookcase in my room.

RC Cola
 

I loved the RC Cola cans, at first. But they sure took up a lot of space in my closet! Eventually I dumped them cheap at a show in the 1980's. Got tired of moving them around. Also dumped the 7-11 cups. Remember them?

Ron R