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Who Should Be in the Hall that isn't
I know you guys have argued about this before but I thought this would be a good time to bring the debate back up with the election that just happened. Who do you think should be in "The Hall" that has yet to be inducted. My top two picks are
1. William "Dummy" Hoy 2. Carl Mays There are a few others but I would like to see everyones thoughts on this. Thanks |
I think a strong case can be made for Tony Oliva.
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1 - Ron Santo
2 - Jimmy Ryan |
Marvin Miller
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Joe Jackson (A lifetime ban expires once you're dead, right?)
Mel Harder Bert Blyleven Tommy John |
Sherry Magee
Joshua |
His HOF plaque would read Sherry Magie.
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Thanks - Rob |
Gil Hodges
Roger Maris Pete Rose |
Without any question Pete Rose, and if not then many need to be removed. Which brings another question, who shouldn't be in the HOF.
Bert Blyleven, if he was on a good team would've won well over 300 games and with his strike out total shouldn't even be a discussion. |
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Lefty O'Doul
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James McGuire
Ed Ruelbach and Ron Santo!!! |
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell Bert Blyleven Pete Rose |
19th Century
Players
Bob Caruthers Jim McCormick Tony Mullane George Van Haltren Executive Chris Von Der Ahe |
My list is admittedly long and I'm sure I'm leaving some people off (and in no particular order)...
James Creighton (1st baseball superstar--although obviously no longevity) Jimmy Ryan Bill Lange (had he only played one or two more years) Dave Orr (see Lange--but I still say Orr should be in) Bill Dahlen Wally Schang (how did Schalk get in over him?) Mike Donlin Deacon White Tony Mullane Jake Stenzel Jim McCormick Larry Doyle George Van Haltren Jack Stivetts Lefty O'Doul Carl Mays Sherry Magee Babe Herman Ed McKean Bob Caruthers Jack Glasscock Doc Cramer Tip O'Neil Pete Browning Bobby Mathews Dummy Hoy Larry Corcoran Bobby Veach Jake Daubert Hal Chase Stuffy McInnis George H. Burns Fred Tenney Borderline: -Urban Shocker (b/c he died early during his career), Art Nehf & Warneke are essentially the same guy -Wes Ferrell -Ned Williamson -Ezra Sutton -Heinie Zimmerman -Elmer Smith -Leever & Phillippe (both are better than Willis) -Babe Adams -Riggs Stephenson -Ken Williams -Jack Fournier -Ed Konetchy -Joe Judge -Charlie Grimm -Jack Quinn -Will White |
I can't believe someone has a longer list than I do. Way to go Rhett!
I'm an "open the floodgates" guy when it comes to Cooperstown, so don't take my lengthy list too seriously, unless of course I get appointed to head up the Hall of Fame selection committee, then you'll need to prepare for a deluge: Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, Tony Oliva, Minnie Minoso, Bert Blyleven, Barry Larkin, Roberto Alomar (I know he'll get in; the HOF voters just wanted to slap him around a bit in his first year), Lefty O'Doul, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Ron Santo, Marvin Miller, Dale Murphy, Jim Kaat, Tommy John, Jack Morris, Lee Smith, Luis Tiant, Maury Wills and my boyhood hero, Vada Pinson. If I left out anybody I think is deserving, I apologize ... |
Bob Johnson
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Carl Mays, Bob Caruthers, and George Van Haltren. There are many others who are borderline and reasonably could go in. But these three clearly belong. By some accounts, Caruthers had the best winning percentage ever, though there seems to be some dispute about one or two wins or losses.
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Ron Santo and Lee Smith
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Gil Hodges
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hall
cravath
best, barry |
Without Question:
Gil Hodges Pete Rose Many others mentioned previously also should be heavily considered. |
Ed Reulbach
George Van Haltren and I could accept Gil Hodges If many more than that get in, the place needs to be renamed. As a kid, I could read My Greatest Day in Baseball, and the members of the Hall of Fame were really special, dominant, great, famous baseball players. As a voting writer, I'd be ashamed of having had a hand in putting some of the inductees of the past decade in with the likes of Honus Wagner, Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Christy Mathewson, and Grover Alexander... just plain ashamed.n |
Ron Santo !!
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Man,you guys got 'em all!!For sure Pete Rose,also Hodges.
Frank,you are right. |
There are a few players listed in this thread from the 19th Century but I didn't see Harry Stovey or Bobby Mathews mentioned.
Stovey was a fantastic batsman he led the league in the following categories: Slugging % - 3x Runs - 4x Total bases - 3x Doubles - 1x Triples - 4x HR's - 5x RBIs - 1x SBs - 2x Bobby Mathews had 297 lifetime wins - 3 more and he would already be in the HOF. |
In somewhat chronological order:
Deacon White George Gore Harry Stovey Bobby Caruthers Cupid Childs Bill Dahlen Jimmy Sheckard (seriously, look him up) Joe Jackson Carl Mays (I think the time period of about 1930-60 has been pretty much covered) Ron Santo (heartbreaking omission) Joe Torre (Ok so I'm giving him credit for his managing too, but he's close as a player) Burt Blyleven Jack Morris (Shouldn't you get extra credit for post-season excellence? Isn't a win in October worth more than a win in June?) Alan Trammel Tim Raines (Really, he should have been a 1st ballot inductee) Barry Larkin Will Clark Mark McGwire (this is a big argument starter -- save it for another thread) Robbie Alomar (Should have been 1st ballot) Edgar Martinez (Think of him as a great specialist like Gossage or Sutter) -------- Non-players: Marvin Miller Buck O'Neill Bill James Tony LaRussa & Bobby Cox (when eligible) ( I think that's everyone for now) |
Wow - people want Hal Chase and Carl Mays in the Hall of Fame??? A pair of deplorable scumbags, not just in personal life but directly in the game of baseball. If the early days of baseball had any more Hal Chases and Carl Mays-es, the game might never have made it past the 1920s.
If Carl Mays is in, then Eddie Cicotte ought to be a lock (of course we all know that can't happen). In their time, it seems to me that more people respected Cicotte than Carl Mays. Cheers, Blair |
I took another look at my list and I completely forgot Harry Stovey
-Rhett Also, Hal Chase was admittedly a pretty rotten guy and I should have qualified my earlier statement w/ the fact that he is actually banned from baseball so he will never actually get in (unless they also induct Jackson and/or Eddie Cicotte) Mays should be in though (as he was never banned, unlike the aforementioned players) |
Harry Stovey may have the best stats among players not in the Hall. A .321 career average, two seasons over .400, 744 stolen bases, and 119 home runs in an era when virtually nobody reached one hundred. He had less than 6000 at bats and only 1925 hits, so that may have held him back. Certainly much stronger stats than his contemporary Tommy McCarthy.
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Ross Barnes deserves consideraton.
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"Smokey Joe" Wood's name usually comes up in these types of discussions.
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Donnie Baseball.
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Santo
I am glad that I am not alone in thinking Ron Santo should be in the HOF.
Ed Mathews before him and Mike Schmidt after, he was the best 3B offensively and defensively in the NL for a good 9-10 years. His statistics do nothing to weaken his case either, really not sure why he is so overlooked. |
Billy Martin
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Grant Johnson and Tony Mullane from the 19th century
Joe wood and Dick Lundy |
When the HOF had its first vote in 1936, only 5 players got in -- but many more received votes. Hal Chase had the 25th most votes, ahead of 18 eventual HOFers including Three Finger Brown, Sam Crawford, John McGraw, Connie Mack, Bill Terry and Al Simmons. In the 1937 vote, Chase received more votes and moved up to 22nd on the list of most votes, ahead of 32 eventual HOFers. But for his criminal actions, Chase would have been a HOF lock. He was roundly recognized as the best first baseman of his time by not just the press but his peers as well.
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The biggest knock on Santo is his .277 batting average, which is actually quite high considering he played in the 1960s, when batting averages and ERA's dropped to some of the lowest levels ever. In addition to his great glove, he had an outstanding batting eye. And remarkably, he suffered from diabetes. After reading your post, Rob, I was looking at his stats and noticed he has a lifetime on base average of .362. To put that in perspective, that's the same OBA as Pie Traynor, who has a .320 lifetime batting average. If that alone isn't enough to push him over top, I don't know what is. I just wish the Hall of Fame voters cared enough to do a little research. I realize Santo wasn't part of this vote, but considering five guys left their ballots blank, and another two voted for Eric Karros, I think it's safe to say the voting process is pretty dysfunctional right now ...
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Roger Maris and Dale Murphy.
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Chris, I couldn't agree more. Plus David Segui and Pat Hentgen got a vote each, was that some kind of a joke?
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Rob,
It seems to me that a professional baseball writer who does not take his HoF vote seriously, ie.votes for David Segui, Pat Hentgen, Eric Karros, does not deserve a vote. It would be better to send in a blank ballot if you don't think anyone is deserving. The BBWAA vote is a privilege granted by the HoF, not a right. It can be taken away. Maybe that is something they should consider. |
I think it is a joke that Gil Hodges isn,t in.
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Indeed, he's a lock in the Hall of Infamy...just not the HOF
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There are a group of players that are all shoe-ins, if it weren't for either this "moral threshhold" or being banned, or both...their names have all been thrown around in this thread already...what an interesting HOF it would be if we could just admit them all based solely on their baseball accomplishments. Add: Rose Jackson Cicotte Mays Chase Alomar McGwire Character aside, I would say, boy that group just got a whole lot better! |
Ken Boyer
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The two who voted for Karros should lose their voting priveleges.
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Hodges
It is a travesty that Gil is not in the Hall of Fame. His stats are not that unworthy and he won 2 World Series rings. The World Series accomplishments alone should have put him over the top.
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Thurman Munson
Dwight Evans Yes, maybe a little Sox fan bias here. Munson really should be in I always thought he was better than Fisk even if he did play for the Yankees. Evans wasn't flashy at bat, but was a fantastic fielder but that rarely counts for HOF voting. At bat he wasn't all that bad either, he played in an era when 400HR was usually a sure thing, but fell a bit short He led the AL in HR and extra base hits from 1980-1989 |
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Cheers, Blair |
Though more deserve it, at least the baseball HoF doesn't feel like they have to put six or eight guys in every year like the football HoF does!
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Just a question to you guys who picked Pete Rose. Do you honestly believe that if he was in debt enough to his bookie that he would not have thrown a game as manager? The man is a complete liar and addicted to gambling. He should never get in.
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I almost agree with Frank A above...
I'm ok with Pete getting in, any day he buys an admission ticket, just like the rest of us. That's the only way he gets into the Hall. Anyone who can't see that should read The Fix Is In: A History of Baseball Gambling ... - by Daniel E Ginsburg , one fine book. It really opens one's eyes to what has been done in the game. It addresses Pete's escapades, and many more before that... in the majors and minors. A well written, thorough book. |
Larry Doyle, Art Nehf, Babe Adams, Harry Stovey, Ron Santo, Heine Groh.
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Also check out the stats for Ted Simmons, I'm not saying he belongs in the HOF by any means, but this guy was some hitter and very overlooked. |
I hate to show my ignorance, but what did Carl Mays do that puts him in the same category as Hal Chase and the Black Sox? I know he threw the pitch that killed Ray Chapman, which is a horrible thing. But was it an intentional beanball?
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I believe Mays beaning was a spitball that had gotten away from him.
I could be wrong, but I thought Mays was also accused of throwing games? |
Mike Donlin.
Bert Blyleven. Tony Oliva. Ron Santo. Ed Reulbach. Joe Jackson. Pete Rose. |
Bert deserves in
5 voters submitted blank ballots. Blyleven lost out by 5 votes. Karros got 2 votes. Put these all together and you have idiocy.
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John Candalaria
Bruce Kison Fred Lynn Mike Easler Will Clark Frank Tanana |
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Cheers, Blair |
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Jeff- you forgot Dock Ellis who for no other reason should be in for pitching a perfect game while under the influence of LSD. Let's see Clemens try that! |
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Cheers, Blair |
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Hodges, Dahlen and Blyleven.
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Pete Reiser, just for getting last rites at the ballgame. I think thats makes him one of a kind.
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Should be in the hall
I to would have to say
Munson Santo Hodges |
Hodges
Maris Rose |
My vote!
Sherry Magee
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HOF vote
My pick would be Jim Kaat. 283 wins and 16 gold gloves seem to me to be excellent credentials.
John |
Yes Pete Rose was addicted to gambling, women, and who knows what else but what does that have to do with being one of the greatest hitters ever not to mention more hits than anyone to ever play the game ! So do we remove Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle because they were women chasing alcoholics ? Ty Cobb, where do you even start ? Tris Speaker ? Wade Boggs ? Mike Schmidt ? It's the hall of fame, not the hall of morals. I'm fine if Pete Rose doesn't get in , but then many, many great players need to be removed. Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and many great players have admitted to taking speed pills to keep the energy going so is it fair for Clemens, Mcguire, and others who used a substance before it was even banned to not get in ? I think Clemens has to be let in, he was one of the greatest pitchers to ever step on the mound.
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I would like to have Pete Rose in as well, but he gambled on games his team played in. Then he lied about it for years even though there was plenty of evidence. If he came clean when it happened we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion right now.
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Don Newcombe
Win–Loss record 149–90 Earned run average 3.56 Strikeouts 1,129 Career highlights and awards 4× All-Star selection (1949, 1950, 1951, 1955) World Series champion (1955) 1956 NL MVP 1956 Cy Young Award 1949 NL Rookie of the Year 1956 NL TSN Pitcher of the Year Plus he was a pretty darn good hitter. Unfortunaley, I think the two years he was away from basebll hurt is career stats too much. |
JohnnyHarmonica, if I were assembling a team of ballplayers of all eras, to play ONE game, a game that had to be won, I think I'd want Pete Rose on that team. His quote, "I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball.", was one memorable comment, and I think he meant it. A fierce competitor. I'd want him on the team if I had to win one game. He has no place in the Hall. Read The Fix is In. After you've read that, the entire book, so you get the background of how the leagues were formed and the focus on rooting gambling out of the game during the game's infancy, then see if you can offer a sensible reason for Pete going in.
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Frank,
I can't disagree with you, it's just such a sad disgraceful story. Charlie Hustle became Charlie Hustler and the worst part is he had a chance to make it right in front of everyone. If he had just said 'I am sorry' I think he would've been forgiven. But to lie and then write a tell all book to get more money to gamble pretty much sealed the doors to the hof shut. It still doesn't change the fact that he has more hits than anyone, and the gambling he did was done as a manager but he broke the rules and even worse lied. If Clemens would've been honest instead of lying I think he would have a good shot to get in but the lies compound it into something much worse. |
My short list...I am not an expert or anything, but I am thinking....
#1) Roger Maris #2) Pete Rose #3) Don Newcombe #4) Ron Santo |
These guys should be in ...
Pete Rose
(I can't stand the sight of him, but he definitely should be in). I'm OK with inducting him the year he dies. I really don't want to see him benefit from being inducted. Joe Jackson Ron Santo Gil Hodges Luis Tiant (great stat's, personality has to count for something) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred Lynn would have been in if he stayed with the Red Sox ------------------------------------------------------------------ How about Horace Clarke? Was there ever a worst lead-off hitter? |
Fred Lynn played the outfield so hard he destroyed himself. You can't keep running into walls. He really was a great player.
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The guy Horace Clarke replaced at leadoff hitter (and at second base), Bobby Richardson was as bad as Horace.
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Rhett Yeakley's list looks like a good place to start...
but I particularly like:
Bert Blyleven Jim Kaat Lee Smith Wes Ferrell Smoky Joe Wood Urban Shocker Cecil Travis George "Tioga" Burns Bob Johnson Bobby Mathews Dave Foutz |
Gil Hodges
Roger Maris |
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