Any Reaction to Legendary Auction Prices
 

I thought the lot of 7000 Bob Gibson Autos for $ 21000 was a steal of a deal ( $ 3 ea). I would think they would sell easily for $ 19.95 for a profit of about $ 120,000. Are their 7000 Gibson or HOF collectors ?

I agree $3 for a check is a steal, but, from a practical matter, reselling them one by one (or two by two) would be a task. If you listed one per day on eBay, it would take about twenty years. What you're seeing is the bulk rate. You're not going to receive the going rate per single check rate with 7,000.

I do agree a single check or a check nicely matted with a photo would fetch a lot more than $3.

I remember when I had a lot of twenty identical cards for sale and a collector said, "But I only want one." This type of single-item buyer may pay the going retail price. However, even the collector who will buy three expects a bulk discount.

Sell em in 100 count lots for $500
 

Make $200 on each lot x 70 = $14,000 profit.

They will saturate the market and will take forever to sell. JMO.

Yes. I'm pretty sure anyone who wants Bob Gibson's autograph has one.

I once won in a Mike Gutierrez auction a lot of 3000 checks consisting of six players-- minor, but circa 1950s-60s players. I sold them as singles, small and large groups, including with other types of autos ("100 autographs with index cards, cuts, photos and bank checks!"). Luckily for me, there were different players so I could do some mixing and matching ('Signed Baseball Bank checks-- six different players'). 3000 Milt Pappas checks might have been as easy to handle. How much of a deal was 3000 checks is dependent on how much you paid. I would imagine I paid less than $1 per check, so it worked out fine for me.

One thing about bank checks is they sell. There is a healthy market for them.

The best bulk lots have a variety of different items. Not only are they more fun to handle, but each item you list on eBay or wherever is a different item. I bought a monster lot of baseball news photos from MastroNet. Yes, they were all baseball photos, but they were all different photos.

The Gibson lot didn't sell
 

I placed the $20,000 bid actually more to just bid on it. It said "you are the high bidder but your bid did not meet the reserve" and upped the bid to $21,000. The auction ended at that price, reserve not met.

The man is still alive, isn't he?

Yes, but he uses only money orders these days.

$12000 plus BP for the Wright CdV seems extremely high to me. Comments?

Didn't even realize that Gary but yes, it is way out of whack. It's never even sold for half that amount.

Gary, it does seem like a pretty high price on the Wright CDV, however, the George & Harry Wright Warren Studios CDV's recently sold together for nearly $40,000 in the Legendary Live auction. Maybe the buyer of those wanted the other Wright, too!
-Rhett

As a person who once found himself with 3,000 Jack Haley checks, my advice is that while it all looks good on paper, it's a hassle to distribute (in this case, you are responsible for flooding the market!) so much of one thing where there is minimal interest to begin with. Maybe the first 100 will sell okay, then you slowly go stir crazy and see checks in your dreams (or nightmares).

DanC

I don't think that the price for the Wright CDV was really out of line. I would not have been surprised if it went for more than it did. If I had the money, I wouldn't mind picking it up for around that price.

Phil- that particular CdV is not rare and has traded many times. The typical price range has been around $4000-6000. That's why last night's price seems high.

m110's sold cheap last night. any buyers from net 54?

Is this new? I wasn't aware Mastro/Legendary had reserves...

Undisclosed reserve
 

I checked my catalogue and lot 76 has no mention of a reserve. So what's the difference in an undisclosed reserve and shill bidding? Shouldn't the lot at least carry a "Reserve" notation?

The probably have to use reserves now as they probably have to protect what little capital they have. After all they are supposively a start-up company.
They probably have to go into the markets to buy inventory for consignments so that they have something to offer for sale on their auctions. Its not probable that anyone with any brains would consign something to them. They probably have to make sure any capital they probably spent on purchasing items would be recovered in their auctions. They are also probably wouldn't mention anything about these reserves up front because you probably wouldn't bother bidding.

That is what happens when your organization is made up of so many good guys.

Don't mean to be picky Richard, but they're great guys, not good guys.

an opinion
 

I am not so sure about this statement. In today's economy and hobby I think reserves aren't a bad thing depending on how they are done. Ask any consignor that has taken a huge loss and they will agree. Sometimes it's better not to sell than to take that big of a hit. Personally, I like to know about reserves if there are any. I doubt they were doing reserves to protect things they might have owned anymore than they would do one with a consignors item(s). Just my opinion on that. As for offering things they might own it is no concern to me unless there is nefarious activity going on. I don't really care who owned an item I am buying unless it's a hobby pioneer and then the provenance is kind of neat. Knowing there is a reserve will sometimes prevent some bidding...so that is a potential explanation on that issue. regards

Rather then set a hidden reserve, why not just start the auction at that price? I realize that it might discourage bidders from bidding if the initial price is sky high, but they'll probably loose bidders because of this use of a hidden reserve (unknown until now), because they didn't disclose it.

As for auctions they own:

"the following lots are owned by the auction house, an auction house employee, or a related party of the auction house: 154, 355, 358, 362, 421, 563, 587, 774, 775, 776, 777, 780, 782, 783, 800, 804, 837, 898, 924, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 934, 935, 937, 939, 939, 941, 946, 950, 958, 959, 960, 961, 971, 972, 973, 976, 987, 989, 994, 995, 997, 998."
-taken directly from their Rules/FAQ section

Let's start a new Soap called .....
 

"As the Market Turns" ..... or _ _ _ "As the Stomach Turns" ... :D

Legendary
 

I'm just happy that I won both lots I really wanted. The Dietsche Postcard set and the Dietsche Cobb Rookie. I thought the set sold for a steal, way under my max bid, which never happens to me..

Chris

This is actually appears to be a "double hidden reserve": Not only was the amount of the reserve hidden (which is the traditional meaning of "hidden reserve") but the fact that there was a reserve at all also seems to have been hidden.

Um, you may want to change that to triple hidden reserve then; you forgot one.

Greg Marmalard: But Delta's already on probation.
Dean Vernon Wormer: They are? Well, as of this moment, they're on DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION!

Haha...nice Matt! It definitely makes sense, even though I had to read it about 4 times for it to make sense.

I'm still trying to figure out why in two days of bidding, being outbid, and coming back to bid again, I never received a single email from Legendary. Did anyone receive their bid confirmation and outbid notices?

Hi Barry....I received each and every "high bid" notice and "outbid" notice, when I was bidding over the two days.

Legendary Emails
 

I got nothing.

Interesting- some people got them, others didn't. Can any computer whizzes- calling Matt- explain this?

Barry, I figured out your email password several months back and have been deleting your emails on a whim. I have no idea why Kevin didn't receive his, though. Very strange.

Anthony- they're pretty boring, don't you think?:)

I wonder if it could be your email provider (just a guess). I use Yahoo.

Do you ever get any emails from Legendary in your inbox?

Oh, I don't read them, that would be a horrible invasion of privacy. I just delete them.

Well Anthony's answer would explain it. :D

Anthony- this morning I got an email from a Nigerian prince who wants me to help him bring $8 million into this country. All I have to do is give him access to my bank account and he will deposit it directly.

I'm already planning what I will do with my new found wealth!

Eric- to answer your question when I put my initial bids in two weeks ago I got every bid and outbid email from them. But on the final two days I got none. So something wasn't working those last two nights.

Yeah, that's my cousin, Jimmy. He's cool. You'll get your money.

:)

Barry - are you insinuating that Doug Allen is a Nigerian prince?
Tsk,,, tsk,,

You've got to be kidding
 

There is a Nigerian prince named Jimmy Stephenson?

Those cultural imperialists at Ellis Island changed it. The screwed up part is, he was only visiting.

I thought the 7 E94s for $2100 plus juice and shipping was a heckuva deal. They were all slabbed and included a 50, 5 40s and a 30, nice solid lot. No big names except Cicotte but nice solid mid grade cards. Last summer this lot in Mastro or REA would have gone for $3500+. I don't know if it is the bad pub Legendary/Mastro has received scaring away potential bidders or if the card market continues to be somewhat depressed, but the final bid was suprising to me and I have tracked E94s for 10 years.

I was happy to take this e125 for $1,303.50:

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...99155a_lg.jpeg

let's hope the transaction is a success.

I still have recieved not a single e-mail...before, during nor after.

The number on the K-Bat Donahue was pretty impressive at $70K plus the vig. I think I know who won it but can't figure out what underbidder would have taken it to that kind of level.

I thought I figured out the winner and the underbidder, but if you don't know then I may be wrong.:confused:

Barry--wasn't me. Maybe someone from Fulton St.

I figured winner was from the east coast, underbidder from the west.

From what I know I am pretty sure you are wrong on the underbidder.

Is there a new player in town?

Barry--Not that I am aware of

Well somebody placed the 65K bid on the K-Bat...or was it just a computer glitch?;)

or something else

Wasn't that JC's card?

NM

this is NOT CORRECT ACCORDING TO DOUG ALLEN !!!
 

If we are going to lambaste a company lets at least get the facts straight. I got this message from Doug this morning

"A prominant dealer bid 21k and the reserve was met and it sold as detailed on the site."

thanks......

Reserves
 

I am new to this board, but want to get a few opinions. I'm in the process of putting my first auction together, and have had a few consignors who want to put reserves on items. I usually try to discourage reserves because I feel it actually hurts the bidding potential on a lot. However, some consignors won't consign unless they have a reserve to protect their investment.

Do you think it is better to have a reserve or high starting bid?

I feel minimums are bad and they are worse when you don't know if and when a minimum is hit. If the seller must have a minimum, I feel it should be the starting price. If the starting price is too high for some bidders than so be it, at least with this method, the bidders know where they stand are not in for disapointment after they think they won an auction.

my opinion
 

My opinion, and this is as a collector bidding in auctions, is that as long as I know what I am shooting for I don't care if it's a higher starting bid, in which case if I am the high bidder at end, and the item didn't meet reserve I will then have a shot at it at the minimum, or if it starts out at the minimum. I don't personally like completely hidden reserves or even worse, not knowing there is a reserve until after I think I won. At least if I know there was a reserve I don't get excited thinking I definitely won it when I am high bidder at auction end. Double or triple :D hidden reserves are the worst.....Just my 2.2 cents....

I wish Doug Allen would comment on some of the other questions that have been presented publicly.

Wait - so Ken was wrong about the message he received, but Doug did confirm there was a hidden reserve on the lot?

Sorry, but now I'm more confused
 

Leon, if in fact Ken bid $20,000 and received the message "reserve not met" and the bid advanced to $21,000, that $21,000 bid had to be the auction house bidding the reserve. In that case the lot would have to receive a $22,000 bid to sell.

I don't know the answer
 

I wouldn't hypothesize too much. I have an email into Doug for clarification. He did go on to to say :

"In total 6 Gibson items and the Mantle glove were the only Sports lots with reserves. Every one of them sold."

I don't want to post the whole email as I think he was frustrated but the pertinent parts have now been posted. Make of it what you want, I guess.

And to Matt- His email seemingly intimated there was a reserve.

CTDean
 

I really don't know the answer to that. I am just the messenger of one email.

To me, that's the bottom line issue that came out of Ken's post. I could care less if the Bob Gibson checks sold or not, but the revelation that Mastro/Legendary is putting double hidden reserves on lots is important.

clarification
 

Doug sent a bit of a clarification on the Legendary "reserve" situation....

this below is cut and pasted but was the entirety of 2 emails.....I hightlighted the one part below, he didn't.....



"Here are the reserves...as bids were accepted the site clearly stated if reserve was met:

1970 Gibson Cy Young - $40k reserve met.
Gibson Gold Glove - $10k reserve met
Gibson Checks - $20k reserve met
Gibson 11 Contracts - $10k reserve not met...Bob accepted bid of $5,500 after auction
Gibson 1964 World Series Ring - $30k reserve met.
Mantle Game Used Glove - $35k reserve met.

Other than a handful of coin lots there were no other lots with reserves in the auction."

Additionally we Do Not bid for the reserve. If there was no competitive bid the person would need to outbid themself in order to progress toward the reserve."

Doug

Thanks, Leon.

And thanks for continuing to serve as Net54's Annie Sullivan to Mastro/Legendary's Helen Keller.

no prob
 

No Problem, Rob. I've been called worse :).

Well, it actually was a compliment to you.

The fact that the reserve is not bid makes it a lot more palatable to me. At least that way there is no confusing the reserve with another bidder.

Only 10:30 am here the on left coast and my day has already been made.

What's the line at Caesar's on whether Gibson actually gets paid?





I kid Mastro, er, Legendary.

The real question is what are the odds on Gibson being paid before turtle guy.
I would say Gibson is the prohibitive favorite as I am sure Mr Allen would not want to get plunked in the ribs when he steps up to the plate and Gibson is pitching. And my guess is that Gibson can still throw harder than turtle guy,, nothing personal turtle guy.

Thanks Leon
 

Doug's clarification of the reserves, and the fact that the Auction House does not bid the reserve explains things very well.

No offense taken by turtleguy.Richard,have you ever heard the story of what happened on a Vietnam tour of major league all stars back in the late stages of that war,involving Bob Gibson and Graig Nettles?

No I have never heard that story.

My only thought in reading this
 

Was that since Legendary has a need to be super transparent in their auction process; that for future catalogs; ANY and all reserves need to be stated in both their catalog and thus in their on-line descriptions.

Obviously; that should be true for all auction houses in that reserves should be announced immediately; however; in legendary's case, the past history of their preceeding company means they need to be even more cautious. I'm not stating that anything is wrong with this, as this is "standard auction and hobby procedure", but for legendary, the reserve should be annouced immediately.

In addition, the fact that the consigner was willing to take less than the reserve for an item; shows that not everything has to hit the reserve for an item to be sold.

This is just MOO in terms of what Legendary (because of their specific and public situation of their previous company) needs to do to keep the perception of themselves as good stewards for their consignors.

Rich