New Grading Company - CSG
 

I just received some news I am not going to make public yet but will say I cannot be more pleased with how the new grading company, by CSG, is going. I think there will be great things in the future from them.Most likely I will have my collection cracked out of their crappy, current TPG cases and into the new company ones. At least I will respect the grading which I don't do currently with at least 2 of the 3 top ones. A grading company that knows how to authenticate and not just be a lemming. And they will use science AND common sense. What a concept. My first cracks could be...

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If you are endorsing them Leon and putting those cards on the line that is Huge. Will be interesting to see this play out and I hope they are successful!

Eventually I hope to have my whole collection in their holders. I am tired of seeing known mistakes (especially strip cards) be incorrectly labeled on purpose.

These are such stupid flips they make me angry every time I look at them. For the record, Ray Charles could see these aren't hand cut. NO W575s that aren't trimmed are hand cut.

So Leon...will you be paying for this service? Or will it be on the house?

First off that question is quite condescending but I will answer it anyway. I have always paid all fees for all of my grading at any company (as far as I can remember). I don't expect anything free BUT I guess if they offered a discount I would consider it. My guess is that other known collections have gotten discounts on large crack outs before, no?
I have never been given a favor of anything pertaining to grading nor would I want or accept one.

And Actually this incorrectly labeled group of cards will be the first crossed over if I decide to go that route. They are wrongly labeled so why not? ( And the pack they came in. )

and btw Pete, what say ye about this? I guess this is part of their new rules about grading....sort of CYA...

"3. Customer acknowledges and agrees that SGC’s owners and employees shall be permitted to submit items for grading and/or authentication without limitation. Furthermore, SGC’s owners and employees may buy, sell, and trade SGC authenticated or graded items without limitation."
Ref: https://gosgc.com/terms"

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Condescending? certainly wasn't intended to be? As the owner of one of the most prolific prewar sites on the WWW it certainly would benefit a new company to have an endorsement from you? Why not throw you a bone? This may be considered a very smart business move on their part?

My apology if my response was too harsh. But yes, I guess it would be good PR for them......I am not 100% my whole collection (kind of small collection but still...) will be crossed as of yet, but I will definitely submit the group of 20 erroneously labeled cards (some shown) as long as their fee and wait times are in line... AND the new company will have to grade them correctly or I won't do it, why would I?

So what will set the new company apart - more accuracy in authentication? Better turn times? Can reliably tell the difference between 70/30 centering and 90/10 centering?

Not to be skeptical but just legit curious as to what a new player with scale will do to fix some of the TPG ills we've long complained about on sites like these. Holders that do not allow cards to slosh around inside? :D

Hi John

I think all of these things will be addressed and more. I don't know any specifics whatsoever except for a new hire of theirs. I am sure we will see more in the near future. They are a smart and well funded company. They have a great name in the hobbies they are currently in and I expect the same in ours.

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Ah, that was my next question. Congrats! Sorry if I missed that earlier.

No, it looks like I hadn't mentioned it. But their team of graders looks to be starting out with a bang. And isn't that the meat of a TPG's company?
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Just out of curiosity, the E90-1 Young in the PSA holder looks GREAT for a 7. I can see why you want to crack and submit with the new group. But why would you crack the SGC 5? Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing card........but the grade is probably on the generous side of accurate.

I totally understand if the point is putting up some of your favorite cards, regardless of their previous grades.

So what's your new title? :)

Leon who are the new graders?

Depending on how the new company looks and performs I will consider my whole collection. I guess the 7 Young is to make that point. As for the SGC 5 I could care less what the number grade is. I know what the card is and love it. It could be a 4 and it would be fine. I tend to pay more for cards I find aesthetically appealing irrespective of their technical grades. I just don't have a ton of respect for the current TPGs with all that has been seen and is going on.

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Not a big fan of the labels, I must say. A label IMO should be as subtle as possible. Those.. are not.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...ading-division

This was in the news about 2 months ago. It is a division of CCG, which is the big rival to CU.

I hope they do a good job, with good holders and smart people working there. Maybe even people who review research materials and have the stones to grade oh, I dunno, football and boxing Exhibit cards, maybe even Fro-Joy cards. Or, echoing Leon's post, can tell the difference between a hand cut strip card and a factory cut insert card.

Their label is pretty aggressive. Not sure it won.t take away from the card.

I like it a lot...I can read it.

I believe that somewhere they said the label would be updated before launch.

No opinion on any one company but the only reason I have my cards graded is to maximize sale price. Any new company will need to prove the purchasing power of their product. This is a good time to do it though. Sales are up.

Is it me, or does the logo look like a copy of SGC?

Nice cards, Leon. Be careful. The grass is not always greener. It is possible that CSG could find evidence that those cards were altered, and slap them with an A tag. You could be slitting your own throat...

I am confident they are fine.

And for everyone posting in this thread, remember the rule at the top of every page please, concerning names. thanks

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You mean you wouldn't want to know if you had altered cards in numbered holders?

I'm pretty sure Leon would be able to identify if his cards are altered better than any grader lol

Thanks, I am ok but nowhere near the best graders. Not in the same ballpark.
I know a little about a lot of type cards :).

**And to answer a few other questions.

I don't want to be the one to say who the new hire is but I am supportive. It will be out soon I am sure.

I have no intention of going to work there. They seem like a good company from what I read.

And yes, I always want to know if my cards are altered.

Was that all?

I like Leon but this made me laugh out loud.

I actually like the flip design, but the pics of the slabs I have seen do not appear to have recessed corners. Assume this is something that will be corrected before go-live?

There is a massive moat built by the current TPG, whether we like to admit that or not. It will take a lot of patience for a new entrant to work. Hopefully they have the pockets to build the business.

Well, lets see what they bring to the table.
I am a SGC person myself.
However, I am certainly open to a new company.
Obviously, they will have something new and different to offer.

I am sure they will be fine. They are a part of the CGC company which is huge in other hobbies. With a built in reputation their growth would be faster than a start-up from scratch.

CGC grades comics,
but has the following:
NGC - Coins
PMG - Paper money
ASG - Stamps

The only issue that I can think of is that they also have CCS which is a comic book restoration company. Some may believe that if they are willing to clean up comics then grade them they could be willing to do the same for sports cards. I would hope they would know the hobby enough to understand that isn't accepted in this hobby, but it could be hard for others to trust a company that does it in another hobby.

Question for Leon. Their promotional video flagged on the other thread says they are only grading Pokémon and Magic cards, yet you’re sending in your vintage.
Are they currently grading vintage and other cards?

I'm going to say based on this comment by Leon they have hired at least one sports person (if not more)

"I don't want to be the one to say who the new hire is but I am supportive. It will be out soon I am sure."

Regards
Rich

Why not just remove the cards from the holders?

Exactly. No 3rd Party validation is needed. Unless you plan to sell them (still not needed, but for the Sheeple)

I assumed you would. My question was directed @ those who offered caution, it infers they would not.

Jeff

They will need to hire a bunch. It is going to have to be a positive feedback loop - you need capacity to grade, which will put more of their cards out on the market, which is free advertising, which will make them money, for them to hire more folks to grade even more cards.

If you are going to make yourself a player in the market you have to have huge investment into this business. You can’t really start with a few or some marquee graders and expect them to lead the way. That’s why I’m really hesitant about new grading companies, UNLESS they are more technologically advanced (remains to be seen).

Those flips are uglier than sin. Just my opinion -Dan Hicks

New grading company....
 

I will own one someday.....:)

general grading,

specializing in vintage freaks ;)

I already have cherry picked a team:D

That video is for their CGC grading that was doing comics but will now include TCG.

CSG is going to be their spin off that will grade sports cards:
https://www.cgccomics.com/news/artic...-card-experts/

Since I like to have my slabs in binders with 4 pocket pages, the slab size alone kills it for me. Why so tall?
Hopefully the design gets more thought. The PSA and SGC proportions and labels are much better imo.

And people complained about the new SGC flips.... Not a fan of this one to be sure.

Their gaming card flips turned out OK, and don't seem to be crazily over-sized.

Although competition generally benefits consumers (e.g. lower prices, better service, etc.), I’m skeptical that any new third-party grader will help solve the hobby’s biggest problem - altered cards receiving numerical grades and over-grading.

The reason is the vintage fee structure. Most TPGs do not have a flat fee. Instead, the fee varies depending on the card’s value. This creates a subconscious financial incentive (and, unfortunately, probably a conscious one for some TPGs) to over-grade. Over-grading increases the card’s price, which, in turn, increases the fee. An increased fee increases the company’s profitability, which, in turn, may increase the grader’s pay. The current vintage fee structure has too many interest conflicts that have created the current problems.

Removing the financial incentive to over-grading is what needs to happen to fix the problem. TPGs should charge a flat fee to grade a 1956 Mantle. The fee should not vary depending on whether the card comes back a Poor 1 or gem 10. So, unless any new grader uses a flat vintage fee, the problem will continue.

A new TPG will make the existing TPGs improve their services and fees, as well as reduce turnaround times. However, any new TPG that uses the same vintage fee is equivalent to putting a bandage on a bullet wound - it will not cure the underlying problem. It may temporarily improve the situation, but eventually even a new TPG’s actual graders will fall victim to the above-referenced dilemma - increasing the company’s bottom line.

I’ll pump the brakes on my excitement until I see the vintage fee schedule for any new TPG. * This post does not mention any specific TPGs, and presents general issues. *

When you do I would like to get one of your early test slabs to add to my oddball slab collection.

Would also like to get one of the very early slabs from this new company when they start grading baseball cards. One of their test slabs would be amazing.:D

Good news. As CSG have offices in London, I'm hoping that they'll offer grading locally.

The hassle with shipping to the US and worrying about customs charges is too much for overseas collectors.

After seeing that sample, I agree.

Apparently they're not into test marketing. If they get off the ground, all you can do is hope they don't quickly realize the packaging (flips) are not what consumers would like and then change them.

Not sure how a company that is into grading is going to crack the code and survive in this PSA dominated market. They could get a foot hold in pre-war but the $$/volume seems to be in newer cards.

I remember when GAI started out, they seemed good, then all the altered cards started getting slabbed.

Best of luck to a new TPG venture because the hobby needs something it can trust.

Regarding the part in bold.... It will be difficult, but is much needed for the integrity of the hobby. All three of the current TPGs are corrupt in their own ways.

If the FBI ever decides to come down on PSA for the thousands of "mistakes" they've made, the window of opportunity could open up a bit more for this new venture. Hopefully that will be the case, although they will still need to tone down that garish flip. :eek:

This is awesome news! What an original concept.

I'm confident the service will be top notch.

I'm looking forward to what the actual case and flip will look like.

The jumbo slab and jumbo grade are big detractors.

Seems like the flip is a non-trivial part of the encapsulation. Given that, it might be a good idea if CSG (or any of the other TPGs) would host a design contest for flips. You announce a contest with a $$ prize for the winner and make the statement that all submissions become the property of the company. You could have a public vote or whittle down the submissions in-house. There are lots of very, very talented graphic artists out there and I'm sure that any number of them could do a better job than what I've seen from any of the TPGs.

Just a thought.

I just heard from the new hire Leon mentioned and I agree, perhaps for the first time (Hi Leon! that's a joke son), about his opinion on the new hire.

Rich

Nice! I am curious about cost
 

Being on a budget I am naturally curious about the cost. I imagine you probably can't give details on that.

I prefer the look of SGC slabs due to the blackout and how it makes cards looks (color theory is a beautiful thing after all!) I really feel there should be a lot more good grading companies though and considering the wait times we've seen especially with PSA, it certainly warrants it now more than ever since the hobby is growing at such a fast rate. I'll be honest, their labels bother me but if they're accurate and at a price point which competes with SGC (I can dream they'd be lower) I'm all about it!

Thank you for sharing your experience.
---John

Isn't the parent co, CCG, the folks who owned or ran SGC at one point? Could have sworn their scale logo was associated with SGC's site and holders. If so then this one could be promising. Keeping my fingers crossed for a solid grading staff.

BTW -- the hire Leon and myself referred to during this thread is now official. From Sports Collectors Daily Today Notes:

"Andy Broome, the senior vintage card grader at Beckett since 2004, has left for a similar role at Certified Sports Guaranty, which has been adding staff in recent months in preparation for its upcoming launch."

Regards
Rich

Good news, for sure.

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I think storing an image of the graded card and the grader notes will be huge. The image helps ease any slab popping/swapping and the notes helps with transparency. I've collected CGC comics and always appreciated having grader notes as to why the comics received the grade it did vs cards just seeing a grade with at most for BGS seeing a four criteria break down on modern. Also, for the comics they charge for grader's notes where here it looks like they will be free and public which also will help with web-based sales with not getting stuck with some undisclosed/seen flaw.

Delete....nevermind.

I have about 700 slabbed PSA - PSA/DNA & BGS - BAS CARDS.
I was set up at early Dec. show / Tampa, & they had table at entrance to get peeps info. on them.
At least 50% of people told them they didn't like slab & label design..
Oh..oh..its being changed !

No.. it hasn't.
THAT tells me plenty.

Made my first submission today; we will see...

I clicked the link and yeah...not good.

All cards in slabs look like SGC slabs if you have a black table. ;):eek::D

CSG, SGC... only a typo away!

I love how the two “EXPERTS” they hired to manage the vintage and modern, in the promo video, Broome wasn’t wearing gloves, getting oil and grease on the borders, and Weston was handling a “chrome” card and had his thumb planted right on the face, leaving his thumb print on it.

I know Leon gave his approval to Broome, but IMO, an “expert grader” doesn’t touch a vintage cards without gloves.

We are just a tiny percent of the people who have cards graded. It will take many years before a grading company can compete with the established group. I wish them good luck in the long haul.

Any way to never wait for 4 months after paying through the nose with PSA will be welcome.

I disagree completely. IF the new group does a good job they will take a lot of market share from the current opinionators.....who have NO guarantees whatsoever. (except to give your grading fees back when they are incompetent)

I only see standard sized cards pictured on their website.
Does anyone know if the same size holder is used for t206 and similar sized cards or if they have multiple sizes?

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Im going to give them a try love this

I went to their site and ... yeah. The slabs look like the slabs you see on Ebay from somebody grading in their basement. Not good.

I wonder if the many complaining about the look of CSG's slab would be doing so if they were around before PSA and SGC. In my opinion so many have just grown accustom to what they're used to.

We continue to see the countless threads complaining about PSA and SGC's rising cost of grading fee's, long wait times increasing more by the day and a plethora of tampered cards getting into their slabs yet we bitch about a new comers slab.

I swear some of the things I hear collectors complain about absolutely blows my mind. I truly hope that CSG takes the market by storm and puts huge amounts of pressure on the others to improve their business or potentially lose it. We all deserve better than what we're currently getting. A slab design should be low on the list of expectations from third party authentication if even mentioned at all.

My two cents! Carry on...............

Need a grading company that sticks to vintage. Leave all that new shiny stuff and Pokémon cards for others. A company needs to be able to service their customers in a timely manner. The current waiting time for PSA is ridiculous!

and mine...
 

Competency SHOULD matter
Resale value matters (to many)
looks matter
cost/wait times matter


I am hopeful with Nat Turner and Steve Cohen taking over PSA that we will see some desperately needed change happen there.
I agree the CSG holder looks horrible (and it matters). For those who choose to give them a shot, keeping an open mind to see how they do in the other areas.

I wish they graded oversized cards..
I had 4 cards I've been holding off on submitting due to wait times but 2 are t201 and a 36 goudey premium

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I'd say that is something they'll need to address quickly if they want to compete in the vintage arena. So many tallboy slabs in my, and many others collections. Postcards, Exhibits, T201, T202, T3, Goudey Premiums, R312, R315 etc.... countless pre war issues are "oversized" by todays standards. There weren't any standard sizes back then. Can't ignore and not slab a very large percentage of pre war card issues and expect to be relevant with those collectors. I understand they're new to the game and very well may be working on multiple bigger sized holders right now? We shall see. I'm not rendering any judgements and hope they do well and hope the extra competition can up all companies standards.

I am totally ready for a new grading company, but... I must agree that looks do matter, and the label is just way too busy for my tastes. Imagine a faded Old Judge in that holder. The label would dominate it. IMO, it seems designed for modern flashy cards.

If they had a more simplified 'single grade' option with a label maybe 30% shorter in height, I'd start using them to slab my cards tomorrow. I do really like their legible font (take note, SGC). My hope is that, as a new company, they might be able to offer something like that in the future. They can call them 'vintage' or 'classic' holders. :)

Presentation matters. There is an entire industry that focuses on it. Take your favorite family photograph and place it into a cheap frame. Now, take the same photograph to a professional framer and I guarantee the new frame will magnify the photograph’s effect and presentation.

Just like your family photograph, you are more concerned with the card than its slab/frame. However, a nice slab/frame significantly adds to the overall presentation and effect.

I agree that there are more important factors, but presentation, especially for cards that I collect for my PC and plan on looking at until I die, is very important.

This post is not expressing an opinion concerning whether this new company’s slabs, or any other TPG’s slabs for that matter, are or are not aesthetically pleasing.

Aesthetics are important to pre war collectors. I realize we're not the most important demo to grading companies but having an option for a black apron and a subtle label would have grabbed a lot of market share from that demo.

+3 (to the three posts directly above). These posts all echo my sentiments exactly.

I am sooooo ready to give them a try, but am having trouble getting past that gigantic flip/slab. Especially with regard to my Tobacco and Caramel Cards.

It's the presentation of the actual card that matters.... not the number. Now that they are an advertiser here, I really hope someone from CSG is reading (and subsequently addressing) this!