Dubious HOF Statistical Records
We discuss statistics ad nauseum as qualifying data for Hall of Fame selection, but what about Hall of Famers, who hold records that a casual observer would consider dubious and hardly worthy a Hall of Fame career.
The first nominee to the dubious HOF would be Cy Young, who holds the career record for pitching losses with 315. Interestingly 9 of the top 10 losers in major league history are members of the Hall of Fame. As a bonus trivia question, and without looking, who is the biggest loser not in the Hall of Fame? Let’s see some other Hall of Famers who set records they probably are not proud of. These dubious records of achievements need not be career records. Seasonal or single game records are fine. Even police records will do. Everyone has records they are not proud of, even Hall of Famers.:eek: |
Reggie and Thome are the career leaders for strikeouts. Judge is on a blistering pace, but the top of the leaderboard is safe for a few more years.
No idea who the pitcher is. Jamie Moyer? |
My guess was Tommy John. Then I looked because I knew I was wrong.
NEVER would have guessed that. His career ERA was rather good for a .500 pitcher. |
I didn't realize Tommy John had that many wins.
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Top five in GIDP are Pujols, Ripken, Pudge, Aaron and Yaz. Baines is eleventb.
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Jim Kaat?
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Ernie Banks played in 2528 games, none of them in the postseason.
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The biggest loser not in the Hall of Fame has not been mentioned yet.
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How about Bobby Mathews
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Now on with the dubious statistical achievements of our heroes. |
I would love to have Reggie sign a ball that says All Time Strikeout King.
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Only a great player gets a chance to make over 8500 outs in a major league career. 5 HoFs and Pete Rose.
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1. Pete Rose (24). 10328 B Would Rose sign a ball “All-time Out King”? He’a signed almost everything else. |
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In NYC the sacred cows of the judicial system are Judge Judy and Aaron Judge.
Let’s not judge Aaron harshly until he both breaks Reggie’s record and gets inducted into the HOF. (sound of gavel) Case closed. |
And just to get this thread back on track,
Cap Anson committed 658 errors while playing first base. He has a substantial lead on the rest of the field. |
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Last response as we're hijacking this thread. I think there's a good chance that 7.2 will be Judge's career high when all is said and done. Oh and Reggie did walk 1375 times in his career, with an OBP 94 points higher than his Avg.
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The top five pitchers who have walked the most batters all time are all HOFers:
Nolan Ryan; Steve Carlton; Phil Niekro; Early Wynn; and Bob Feller. |
Niekro has got to be top 5 for losses too. Probably one of very few HOF'ers to lose 20 in a season.
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Pud Galvin averaged 20 losses a year, but in the 19th Century. How many of Cy's were 20th century? Also if Cy were the only other one that would qualify as "very few" in my book :)
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OK so there's a decent handful, Robin Roberts was the only other 2nd half of the century guy I saw, but Eppa Rixey, Ted Lyons (neither of whom SHOULD be in) Some guy named Walter Johnson all lost 20 in the 20th century.
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Does arguing with yourself require a mirror?:D:D
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The greatest players have the most of everything, because they played the most games. Most wins, losses etc. I think Pete Rose made the most outs (9797) also most hits. Managers in HOF have the most losses etc.
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Phil is the only guy to lead the league in wins AND losses in the same year! |
Tony Mullane for losses?
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Perhaps not quite in the spirit of this Thread, but
a dubious record, for sure. Somewhat depending upon the reporting source, Sam Thompson (Detroit 1885-1888, Philadelphia 1889-1898, Detroit 1906, HOF 1974) in 1895 became either the first of four men to record three outfielder-to-catcher assists in a game, or the only man ever to record four in a game.
A curious record at best, dependent of course upon four base runners on third attempting to score after a Thompson catch. Thompson was an outstanding right fielder, and among all outfielders who played more than 1,000 games , his assist-per-game ratio (one every 4.9 games) is the highest in history. He also compiled the highest fielding average of any outfielder who played 1,000 games and whose career concluded before the 20th century. |
On his very last pitch as a Major Leaguer, Nolan Ryan set the career record for most Grand Slams surrendered by one pitcher - as Dann Howitt (who?) of the Mariners took him deep in the first inning on September 22, 1993.
Since then, this dubious record has been tied by one now-retired reliever and then broken by a now-retired starter. Anyone want to guess who these non-HOF pitchers are? Bert Blyleven, who had never surrendered more than 24 homers in any single season, set the Gopher-Ball record in 1986 with 50 and then gave up another 46 in 1987. In 1988, he only gave up 21, but led the lead with 16 HBPs...hmmmm. = |
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Vic Willis lost 29 games in one season, the most since 1900.
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While it's true that he didn't give up a grand slam, he gave up consecutive homers on five different occasions : June 23, 1970 (N) at Fenway Park, Red Sox 5th inning Conigliaro & Petrocelli July 10, 1973 (N) at Memorial Stadium, Angels 4th inning Oliver & Stanton (1st of 3 in game, 2 off Palmer) June 9, 1977 (N) at Fenway Park, Red Sox 3rd inning Lynn & Rice April 19, 1980 (N) at Memorial Stadium, White Sox 7th inning Morrison & Baines September 1, 1983 (D) at Exhibition Stadium, Blue Jays 4th inning Whitt & Barfield |
Well, he never gave up consecutive grand slams anyway.
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I got my info from Wikipedia, I should have known better. |
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IMO, it was a difference in pitching philosophy: Ryan seemed to see such occasions as personal challenges, while Palmer knew that an occasional bases-loaded-walk did less damage. Even as a big Nolan Ryan fan, I have to admit this. |
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Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
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I bet Ryan had a lot more bases loaded situations than Palmer and perhaps the percentage of those situations ending in a walk may actually be fairly close.
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Bases empty Man of first Man on second Man on third Men on first and second Men on first and third Men on second and third And bases full |
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This whole thread has been a really entertaining read. Thanks everyone for making my porcelain thrown time enjoyable:D
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Pretty likely. Ryan was a K machine, striking out 49% more batters than the average of the next ten pitchers on the career leaderboard. But he was even more of a BB machine, walking 65% more batters than the average of the next ten pitchers (all of whom, speaking of dubious HOF records, are either in the HOF or are named Roger Clemens). |
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Goose Goslin grounded into four consecutive double plays. Not sure if that is still the record. I know it was tied once in the 1960's.
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Rickey (335) and Brock (307) are top two for career caught stealing...and I didn't realize Rod Carew (187) would be in the top 10!
Ron LeFlore (142 in 9 years) "leads" for guys who played less than ten seasons. With Ichiro (117) retired, Rajal Davis (107) becomes MLB's active CS leader and can build on that, assuming he's recalled to the bigs from Syracuse at some point. |
Actually that's mind boggling that Rickey was THAT much better than Brock. Virtually the same caught stealing for what 500 more successful swipes?
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Take a look at Raines.
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Are intentional walks dubious?
The case for the intentional walk as a dubious record.
1. The ultimate passive achievement for the batter who is issued a free pass, but still a rather common one for a HOF slugger. 2. A strategic call by the opposing manager based on several factors often not related to batter such as Putting a runner on first to set up a double play, particularly if the slugger is not a fleet base runner. Removing the threat of a damaging hitter to pitch to a guy hitting .137, which is as much related to the poorer hitter than the batter receiving the walk. Creating a more favorable righty-lefty matchup for his pitcher, in the era of analytics. And so forth. And throw in the non-intentional intentional walk, where the pitcher ardently avoids giving the batter a decent pitch and ends up walking him nevertheless if the batter doesn’t offer at a bouncing curve ball or a slider further away than the length his bat.:eek: The last statement renders any recorded statistic irrelevant, but I would be willing to bet the career leader is in Cooperstown. And of course I would be wrong. The career leader actually has more than twice as many IBBs as number two on the list and neither is a HOFer at least not yet, Bonds and Pujols. Also note that intentional walks were not a recorded stat for prewar players before 1941. The leading HOFer though in this category is Stan Musial, who leads Hank Aaron by 5, and always will.;):D |
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