Doug Allen to plead guilty.....
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I wonder how this impacts Legendary Auctions? |
But I have emails from Doug in which he denied shill bidding or committing any fraud in the hobby. And I have a phone message he left me denying the same! He assured me he would never engage in fraud and that I could be comfortable in bidding in his auctions! I'm stunned!
Well, I never saw this one coming I can tell you that. |
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Bad timing for him. Smack dab in the middle of the National. Yikes.
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Wonder why their stuff keeps bringing tons of money?? A lot of collectors evidently still trust and believe in them...
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Remember what PT Barnum said?
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Addicts don't care where they score.
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Mr. Allen won't be the first boss to continue to run his organization from federal prison
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Boy this hobby sure needs to be cleaned up. Its like the bank mess these big auction houses think there to big to fail
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My cynical opinion is:
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I doubt anyone could out-do Steven Cummings' scathing letter to the court about Mastro which was penned back in early 2013. |
I bid in Legendary Auctions once. I have stated it before on this board. I will never bid in another Legendary Auction. Once was enough.
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None.
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lol
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Every one of them has had their legal issues.
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So instead you deal with all the solid citizens on Ebay?
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Duplicate post--sorry
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If Billy and Doug end up in the same minimum security joint, we should try to organize a card show there - a sort of conjugal card show? Bring all of our reprints, trimmed, bleached...
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As Doug (or anyone for that matter) surveys the landscape of this wondrous hobby, is there any reason for him to assume he won't be welcomed back with open arms as long as he can put his hands on the goods?
In a word, no. |
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I suspect that wont happen though. |
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Doug and Bill will be on supervised release once they leave prison. If they violate their terms of release -- such as committing fraud -- they could be returned to prison. I'm certain they will be closely watched upon release. That at least one or both of them cooperated or attempted to cooperate against any and everyone in the hobby that they could have should at least give would be co-conspirators some pause upon dealing with them again, however. Because obviously anyone who would not only steal from their friends but them try to put their friends in prison is not someone most sane people would want to go near.
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Why did the guys running the National let these guys run a live auction let alone have a booth. I would be afraid the government would cease the stuff and the auction winners would never get there items. Totally wrong that these guys were even a loud in the building. Wish I was a fly on the wall at there booth to see what comments were said as people went by
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To quote the great line from Ben Hur, "bravely spoken." :eek:
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I was not at the National this year, but if it was like years past, they ran their auction independent of the actual National. They rented a space in Cleveland to hold their event. The organizers of the National can't stop that.
JimB |
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At the show Allen and Theotkis were chasing collectors like an ugly girl at a Sadie Hawkins dance. It was pretty funny to watch.
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Being blunt Legendary Auctions is a business run by a handful of now well documented crooks who spun off from another now well documented crook/crooks. Who cares what happens to these guys, let alone the shell they operated their crimes under or were linked too. We all should be furious about this or at the very least just be happy we got our winnings/paid on consignments drop the mic and move on from these jack wagons. They on the other hand should pay the price for preying on their clients who trusted them, and the hobby that gave them the opportunity to make a great living. Not a lot of folks get the chance these guys did in life. Such a shame greed had to have them piss it away. I can’t even figure why anyone would want to be friends with these guys now. Let alone wonder or think about what happens to their business. Just my two cents… |
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Like you, my hope is that Legendary is now out of business permanently and not run by some puppet management until Allen and company return from the hoosegow. |
This is priceless.
Doug Allen's admission that he runs a "full gouging retail [auction]" where bidders "are pushed to the next level" with a "safe environment to buy" (See excerpt 3:58 through 5:15).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkOLo758vTE |
Good video Dan, ahh how to build a world class...
Dan read my post I say no shot at the OP, wasn't aimed at you. Just have heard that a bunch "what will happen to Legendary" from lots of folks that's all my post was about. Quote:
Here is some of the game used equipment where folks were...ummm how did Doug phrase that....oh that's right "pushed to the next level" if you will. :D |
Those guys that consigned there high end stuff in Legendarys live auction that was run during the national are you nuts? Why would you take a chance on not getting your money knowing these guys possibly could go to jail or the government cease all there stuff if that would happen. I'm not a lawyer so not sure how all that works but just seems risky even if you were a buyer in that auction
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Keith--the government doesn't "cease", they "seize". Are you sure you're not a lawyer?
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With what we have in Washington now i think "they" is appropriate, although if you will spot me an "sh" I will go along with you.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...811-story.html
Why not have two threads up at the top, hopefully Jeff wont mind if so we can discuss over dinner...just talk into my tie Jeff very clearly. :D |
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http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/1271/rotfl.gif |
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Guess I know a Plank that will need reviewed again soon. Just remember. :) http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...ull%20copy.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...d/26834_lg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn.../26834b_lg.jpg http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=35826 The more I read the more I miss these guys. :) http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...ages/honus.jpg |
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Here's a good one. Lots of smart people chiming in here:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=plancich |
Can't believe that was 8 years ago! Time certainly does fly.
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Tom C |
nevermind....too busy for a pissing contest today.
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To all the consignors and winning bidders in Legendarys live auction this past National, To quote Jay Leno to Hugh Grant " What were you thinking" Sure hope you guys get your money and bidders get your winnngs
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Sad things in the hobby. Those culprits will pay a heavy price. I have sympathy for their families..
Accolades to the FBI and other law enforcement. They have helped the hobby immeasurably and I for one am very thankful for them. I hope they keep investigating for a long, long time. And thanks to Jeff L for continuing to carry the torch..... and lastly, Fripples, if you get into any more heated or "disagreeing type" discussions your name will need to be out here per the rules. I and a few others know you but most of the board doesn't. Nothing personal.. |
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It seems to me that if the Noe investigation led to the Mastro investigation (as is mentioned in one of the threads) that then led to Allen and Rodgers, wouldn't the next logical step be an investigation into PSA especially considering it is a publicly held company? |
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These are good questions and it's very disturbing that some of these cards were holdered. There likely several problems. One problem is the statute of limitations since a lot of this happened more than five years ago. The other problem is proving that PSA intentionally graded doctored cards and that will be difficult since that would require someone admitting that bad cards were deliberately graded. PSA's obvious defense will be incompetence. On the other hand, it would be interesting to see Mastro's submission records to PSA and same goes with some of these consignors who submitted cards to PSA like the Plank PSA 6 that ended up in Mastro Auctions. Obviously these submissions now need to be rigorously scrutinized and the bad cards need to be bought back by PSA. |
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Leon,
Here's an excerpt from an article for criminal statute of limitations: Federal statutes are only applicable to federal crimes. Typically, those are crimes which violate a congressionally mandated law or take place on federal property. Mail fraud and burglarizing or vandalizing a federally owned property are examples of what can be considered a federal crime. Each type of federal crime has it's own type of statute of limitations however there is no statute of limitations for federal crimes punishable by death. Certain federal terrorism crimes do not have a statute of limitations either. Otherwise, prosecution for other federal crimes must begin within 5 years from the time the offense was committed. There are a few exceptions, such as arson, art theft, particular crimes against financial institutions and various immigration offenses which all carry statutes of limitations longer than the five-year norm. No matter the applicable statute of limitations, the time period can be extended because of certain circumstances. For example, when the accused is a fugitive or the case involves charges of wartime fraud against the government, the statute of limitations can be lengthened. Examples of federal crimes that receive extended statutes of limitations: 20 years for major theft of art work 10 years for arson, certain crimes against financial institutions and immigration offenses 8 years for non-violent violations of the terrorism-associated statutes http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc...s-state-crimes So in this instance, it appears that 5 years is the statute of limitations because I don't see any of those exceptions applying here. But, your statement is generally true for civil liability unless it was something that should have been discovered with reasonable diligence. However, PSA does have a buy-back policy, which should be the easiest avenue for recovery. |
I'm sure Doug Allen provided all info to the federal investigators about PSA when he was cooperating. Before he obstructed justice, obviously. Same with Bill and John Rogers. Of course, all of their info would need to be corroborated because Doug, Bill and John are not exactly trustworthy individuals.
Regardless, I have no doubt Joe Orlando is more nervous than usual these days. |
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I am sure $50K+ cards don't go through the regular channels and there is not a run of the mill grader looking at it purely for insurance purposes. So I don't see how these cards were graded without knowing exactly who they were doing it for. The investigation I am talking about is if they were knowingly grading cards that shouldn't have been(or not given a grade above Authentic) for their own financial gain. If they indeed were knowingly helping Mastro and Co. I am sure they weren't doing it purely to gain more business but rather they were enjoying other financial gains. IF PSA is found to have been knowingly grading cards for others to help with financial gain or in anyway boost the company's financial statements wouldn't, as a Publicly Traded Company, they fall under the SEC? Isn't there a Statute of Limitations similar to what Leon brought up in SEC cases? You mentioned the refund policy, but as was shown with the (s)Nodgrass Cycle they wouldn't return it for the original buyer of that card and he was stuck with a card everyone knew was a fraud but that PSA wouldn't do anything about, so I don't think they could stand behind that "guarantee" if this does play out. |
Exactly,it looked like Legendary trolled mom and pop card shops to try and come up with something for this auction which just ended.Pinholes ?Inked ?How the mighty have fallen.
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anyone remember the touchy -feely family essay/photo session Orlando did for Doug in an issue of PSA guide a few years back.So what were the fruits of that relationship and how it affected cards coming from Legendary to PSA for the grading process ?
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Meanwhile, Joe and Doug keep chugging along....Proof??? Jeff L., what's your take??
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Kevin, I have no idea what you're trying to say.
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Jeff,nothing lately on the Doug Allen sentencing.think his attorney is stalling the system ?
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i realize it's kinda late in the game...but is there any way to deduce whether I(anyone) was ripped off in a legendary auction?
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