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-   -   the list (of criminals) is revealed (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=217245)

drcy 02-20-2016 12:39 PM

My saying is "Honest people are honest." Why are they honest? Because they are honest.

I've volunteered at a non-profit playhouse and they have their change (just nickels, quarters and dimes-- nothing much, it's just a little non-profit) in an unlocked desk drawer. An officer worker joked that I could take money and no one would notice. I said "I've known the money's been in there for years, and the thought of taking a nickel hasn't even crossed my mind. It's not that I chose not to steal but the very thought of stealing didn't even enter my mind." She said, "That's because you're honest."

I think the majority of people have no interest or desire in cheating others. They often also are aware of the concept of 'repeat customers.

On the flip side are dishonest scammers who believe everyone in the world thinks dishonestly like them, and usually justify their actions this way.

Then there are the great mass of collectors who fall under enablers, crowd followers and wishful thinkers. If you complain about shilling and fakers, then buy "stuff" from an auction house you know shills and fakes, you are an enabler and a part of the problem. And if are are high grade card investor who glosses over that Mastro said most high grade graded cards have been altered and that the auction house promoted that he could "prep" your raw cards for grading, you're a wishful thinker and probably home there isn't an alterations statistical report for the FBI to someday uncover and publicize. The majority has the control over how things are done, but they chose not to collectively their collective power-- of course, trying to harness that power would be like trying to heard cats.

If collectors want to really exercise their power, they would say they won't bid and buy with dishonest auction houses, and they won't buy stuff that came from the auction houses. If an eBay seller buys stuff from a dishonest auction house then puts it on ebay, you won't buy it then either. That would put the sources in a bind.

But, of course, business will likely go on as usual, because the "silent majority" won't do anything. No doubt a plethora of the complainers in this elongated thread have already placed their bids with the questioned auction houses, and no doubt the bids for high grade graded cards will go higher and higher even as the cards get shorter and shorter and the grading/resubmission/registry game gets stupider and stupider.

The high grade side of the hobby is why I love all those collectors on limited budgets who collect beaters. I always consider them the real collectors. My mom would likely say about a guy paying six figures for a PSA 1964 Topps Roberto Clemente to show off on the PSA registry, "He's probably trying to make up for his little weiner."

When you boil it down and realize that the hobby is dealing in cardboard kid's collectables, a lot of the stuff that goes on is just stupid and silly. Worthy of a Spinal Tap-esque satire. Just think what people outside the hobby would think. That someone makes his living secretly trimming and pressing baseball card's in his basement or resubmitting and resubmitting a baseball card until he gets the right number on a label makes you say "This is what you're doing with your life? Some people aspire to write the Great American Novel." I don't care how much money he makes doing it, it's still stupid.

Though I'm not at all a religious man, my other response explaining why I don't do certain things is "I want to go to Heaven." Yes, as a non-religious person, I roll my eyes when well known scammers wear their religion on their sleeves and bring a Priest to court while simultaneously claiming they did nothing unethical or immoral. Makes me want to ask them "What exactly are the tenants of your religion? Maybe I misheard."

mark evans 02-20-2016 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1506354)
People go to jail for insider trading too but doesnt stop anything.....as long as there is money to be made....the tv show american greed will always have new stories to tell

Maybe so. But, what we don't know is how much insider trading has been deterred by criminal prosecutions. I don't know whether anyone has attempted to calculate this, or whether that would even be possible. I suspect a good bit.

If the issue is whether prosecutions will deter all criminal conduct by auction houses, we all know the answer. There will always be some greedy and brazen knuckleheads willing to run the risk of prosecution for money. Having spent a career in law enforcement, I believe we need to provide sufficient funding to investigative agencies and prosecutors, both federal and state, to bring these people to justice.

HRBAKER 02-20-2016 02:58 PM

drcy - excellent post
it's easy to complain, tougher to go without

dhernandez 02-21-2016 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timn1 (Post 1505289)
I will not bid on any Goldin items - too many red flags in its history for me, and too many other places to spend my money.

I don't blame you. Kenny has proven to be da wheeler dealer he is with he and Mr.Abramowitz appearance on the list. In addition to turning a once great informative forum into a monitored infomercial. I'm sure Mr.Caviler has a role into the destruction of a once informative site. Gee Thanks Chris!

WindyCityGameUsed 02-21-2016 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhernandez (Post 1506689)
I don't blame you. Kenny has proven to be da wheeler dealer he is with he and Mr.Abramowitz appearance on the list. In addition to turning a once great informative forum into a monitored infomercial. I'm sure Mr.Caviler has a role into the destruction of a once informative site. Gee Thanks Chris!

Unabated Greed & Sheistyness Trumps All

Sophiedog 02-21-2016 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcy (Post 1506417)
My saying is "Honest people are honest." Why are they honest? Because they are honest.

I've volunteered at a non-profit playhouse and they have their change (just nickels, quarters and dimes-- nothing much, it's just a little non-profit) in an unlocked desk drawer. An officer worker joked that I could take money and no one would notice. I said "I've known the money's been in there for years, and the thought of taking a nickel hasn't even crossed my mind. It's not that I chose not to steal but the very thought of stealing didn't even enter my mind." She said, "That's because you're honest."

I think the majority of people have no interest or desire in cheating others. They often also are aware of the concept of 'repeat customers.

On the flip side are dishonest scammers who believe everyone in the world thinks dishonestly like them, and usually justify their actions this way.

Then there are the great mass of collectors who fall under enablers, crowd followers and wishful thinkers. If you complain about shilling and fakers, then buy "stuff" from an auction house you know shills and fakes, you are an enabler and a part of the problem. And if are are high grade card investor who glosses over that Mastro said most high grade graded cards have been altered and that the auction house promoted that he could "prep" your raw cards for grading, you're a wishful thinker and probably home there isn't an alterations statistical report for the FBI to someday uncover and publicize. The majority has the control over how things are done, but they chose not to collectively their collective power-- of course, trying to harness that power would be like trying to heard cats.

If collectors want to really exercise their power, they would say they won't bid and buy with dishonest auction houses, and they won't buy stuff that came from the auction houses. If an eBay seller buys stuff from a dishonest auction house then puts it on ebay, you won't buy it then either. That would put the sources in a bind.

But, of course, business will likely go on as usual, because the "silent majority" won't do anything. No doubt a plethora of the complainers in this elongated thread have already placed their bids with the questioned auction houses, and no doubt the bids for high grade graded cards will go higher and higher even as the cards get shorter and shorter and the grading/resubmission/registry game gets stupider and stupider.

The high grade side of the hobby is why I love all those collectors on limited budgets who collect beaters. I always consider them the real collectors. My mom would likely say about a guy paying six figures for a PSA 1964 Topps Roberto Clemente to show off on the PSA registry, "He's probably trying to make up for his little weiner."

When you boil it down and realize that the hobby is dealing in cardboard kid's collectables, a lot of the stuff that goes on is just stupid and silly. Worthy of a Spinal Tap-esque satire. Just think what people outside the hobby would think. That someone makes his living secretly trimming and pressing baseball card's in his basement or resubmitting and resubmitting a baseball card until he gets the right number on a label makes you say "This is what you're doing with your life? Some people aspire to write the Great American Novel." I don't care how much money he makes doing it, it's still stupid.

Though I'm not at all a religious man, my other response explaining why I don't do certain things is "I want to go to Heaven." Yes, as a non-religious person, I roll my eyes when well known scammers wear their religion on their sleeves and bring a Priest to court while simultaneously claiming they did nothing unethical or immoral. Makes me want to ask them "What exactly are the tenants of your religion? Maybe I misheard."

Excellent Post!!!!!

dhernandez 02-21-2016 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindyCityGameUsed (Post 1506768)
Unabated Greed & Sheistyness Trumps All

The chimps took over like that sci-fi flick with Chuck Heston

Rich Klein 02-22-2016 06:52 AM

A side note
 
I was chatting with a local dealer on Sunday who said when the Sotheby fraud was disclosed he was able to get back 10 percent of what he spent and wondered why no similar restitution has been made to Mastro''s victims.

Rich

D.P.Johnson 02-22-2016 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBAKER (Post 1506454)
drcy - excellent post
it's easy to complain, tougher to go without

+1

h2oya311 02-22-2016 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMPEP (Post 1506347)
Evil will always triumph over good ... because good is dumb

Awesome quote from an awesome movie! I can't believe people actually jumped down your throat for this one! I thought this movie and quote were part of every guy's DNA (especially for those that collect cardboard). I choked on my lunch when I read your post and then choked some more when I saw some guys on here that didn't get it. Shocking!


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