Let's revisit in 4-1/2 years when he's no longer President.

This won't be a popular attitude here, but Hillary would absolutely have been, if not great (I don't know what that would mean in this context), a lot better. She has experience with healthcare policy, she has experience in the Senate, she has experience as Secretary of State, she has experience seeing how a non-dysfunctional White House works. All of that would be helpful, and Trump has none of it. She would not have cut funding for epidemic preparedness or eliminated government agencies that it now turns out are crucial for fighting the epidemic. She would have used the contingency plans the Obama administration created for dealing with epidemics rather than ignoring them and pretending everything was fine for months while the time to act decisively went by. She would have hired competent people and let them do their jobs. She would be actually trying to address the crisis instead of trying to threaten governors she didn't like and tweeting about how high her TV ratings were and trying to bully reporters who asked questions she didn't like. I could go on, but just on those points alone, there's a huge difference.

So, absolutely she would have been a lot better. She was one of the most qualified candidates in the history of the presidency, and she lost to one of the least qualified candidates, and, as they say, elections have consequences.

I'm sure there's a bunch of people here who are now never going to do business with me again, but that's fine.

Ted

I get the feeling you would like this card. One of my favorites.

Hey Ted, If people still buy from, and look at pwcc auctions, I wouldn't worry too much!


Stuff Trumps All!

Instead we get this idiocy:

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/mypil...232505593.html

Ted

If someone wants to follow the most expensive cards on EBAY whether one likes it or not PWCC and Probstein dominate.

There are plenty of high dollar fixed price or flexible price listings but these two run the vast majority of the straight auctions for good cards.

Just as I said when the PWCC issues arose that they weren't going anywhere. I haven't purchased a card from them in quite sometime but I certainly would.

If Huffington Post articles are being posted this thread needs another Trump card.

This card has exploded in recent months. I am anxious to see a fresh 10 listed to see what it brings. A PSA 9 just went for $375.

Not sure why it matters that it's the Huffington Post, but here's the same story from Fox News, if that somehow makes it more believable for people.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/myp...-during-crisis

Ted

I saw this on Twitter earlier and watched clips. Just can’t fathom looking at a Huffington Post article . I also saw countless liberals on Twitter criticizing Trump for bringing him up and none pointed out how great it was that he was using his factory space for the greater good.

For sure TED, probably true 99% of the time.

However as a 1/2 “Jap”, who’s American born “Jap” mom, aunt, and grandparents were interned in WWII, and who’s great uncle volunteered for service straight out of the camp and died as part of the 442RCT assault on Monte Cassino... there’s one person in this thread I wouldn’t do business with if you paid me.

Even though they’d lost their home and business as early 30 somethings starting a family, my grandparent’s loyalty to FDR never waned. That word should’ve died decades ago, after countless other Japanese Americans had demonstrated the same and re-assimilated back into society.

Sad to see this type of rhetoric coming back.

My wife is Japanese and both my kids are half Japanese (and citizens of Japan) so I 100% share your view.

And you would be held responsible too and fired. End of discussion.

Then Lincoln should've fired US Grant. For that matter, Lincoln shouldn't have been re-elected in 1864 (meaning, McClellan wins and the South maintains slavery.)

Costly mistakes were made in WW2. Should FDR have been voted out. or should Eisenhower have been fired? Should Obama and Hillary been tossed from office over their Benghazi bungling?

You can't judge e person's decisions based on what perfect would've been. This pandemic is a new thing, and like it or not, there is a learning curve for everyone.

It may be new, but lots of people - qualified, talented, educated, smart people - knew that something like it was inevitable and prepared reports and plans for what to do. There were government agencies in place to handle it, until Trump got rid of them. Trump ignored all of the people who knew what was going on, and said it wasn't a big deal, and then turned things over to Mike Pence whose previous experience with disease outbreaks was causing one when he was governor of Indiana.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...na/4890988002/

Here's an analogy: suppose you got elected mayor of a town, and the town has a river running through it. The river has never flooded because of the system of dikes and levees in the area. So you decide to cut the budget for maintaining the flood control system, because, hey, the river's never flooded, and then you fire the guy who runs the agency that's in charge of responding to floods, because, hey, the river's never flooded. All the disaster preparedness people tell you that's a bad idea, but you ignore them because they're part of the deep state and you know the river never floods and no one knows more about weather than you do.

Over time, the flood control system deteriorates because there's no funding and no one in charge. Then, later, the weather people tell you that it's going to rain heavily upstream of your town in a few days and the river's going to flood, and you should read the report the last mayor had prepared about what to do if there's a flood. You ignore them, and tell the townspeople that it's only a few drops of rain, nothing to worry about. The rain starts to fall, and the river's rising, and you say to the townspeople, oh, it's risen before, it's going to go down again, there's nothing to worry about, and by the way the stock market is starting to look really good to you. Meanwhile the flood control system is failing because you cut the funding for repairs, and the water's still rising. And all the experts are telling you to evacuate the town, or at least try to repair the flood control system, or put up sandbags on the river, and the weather people are telling you more rain's coming....and you do nothing. Finally the flood happens, and everything's under six feet of water, and lots of people drown, and you say "Gosh, this has never happened before, no one could have known this would happen." You also say "No, I don't take responsibility at all," when someone asks you if you take responsibility for what happened. (That's a direct quote from Trump, by the way).

The proper response of the townspeople should be to kick you out of office and run you out of town on a rail after tarring and feathering you.

Ted

You're missing the point..

Of course people at all levels will be held responsible and there will be blame passed to them, but at the end of the day, the guy at the top is in charge and takes responsibility for his actions (or inactions) that allowed this to happen.

Did everyone see this coming? No. Was this completely unavoidable? No. There are questions that people rightfully have that our leaders will need to answer to understand why this happened and how to prevent it from happening again. Donald Trump said that I will be able to go to a packed church on Easter, now he says I need to stay inside for another month. He was obviously wrong, he messed up. What happened? Did he not listen to his advisors? Has he been hiring the wrong people? Has he been working off of bad information? Was he just trying to be optimistic? This is a small example of the hundreds (if not thousands) of mistakes he has made over the past couple months regarding this pandemic. He needs to take responsibility for them and explain why he keeps getting it wrong.

I think without being political there are some things that everyone gets wrong. I am sure there are fields of science or other area where there is a clear leader of the field. If that leader makes a decision that later looks wrong but every other leader in the field agreed with their decision at the time, i think you got cut some slack. Also if 50 say one thing and 50 say another. You are only going to be 50 percent right and how can you blame someone if it turns out wrong when the decision was based on 50/50 leader of the field intel.

Not saying applies in any specific case, but it appears some people think that if someone was wrong they should get fired etc.....decisions are not made in a vacuum..

When someone is more focused on how the stock market is reacting and directly contradicts actual disease experts, there is a case to be made that decisions are being made in a vacuum.

nice analogy.

Thanks! I should have added a part about how the towns upstream were flooding one by one, and the mayors there were warning the people downstream about what was coming, but I thought of it too late.

Ted

The Johnstown Flood
 

Although not mentioned by name, the "flood incident" is uncannily close to the actual Johnstown PA Flood. And perhaps intended to do so. The initial dam, thought by at least one engineer to be unsafe, but "oh, its held for years" by others with a financial interest in the lake which was created for recreational purposes.

When the rains did come (said to be of biblical proportions) residents and mayors did try to send warnings downstream to Johnstown, but they were ignored or not believed. And this even after the dam had been undermined and collapsed and there were eye witnesses.

Very important and wealthy people from Pittsburg (Carnegie, Melon) owned summer residences lakeside. The Flood was front page news on the New York Times for over a month. Afterwards there were lawsuits and some legal action, but in the end no one important or any facility took any blame or punishment.

I was not aware of this as I was developing the analogy, but thank you for sharing it. I hope that this time some people will be held responsible.

Not sure thats apples to apples, he mentions loss of life is important too just as he states what happened in the market.....theres no narrative there unless someone wants to force a narrative

as to contradicting actual disease experts, what exactly does contradict mean, actions are different than words. The experts say varying things and to be flexible..i dont think they said do exactly this or else..

Also it has been said if you are the leader the buck stops with you. So if you listen 100% to what leading experts say and they are wrong, then you will get fired for being wrong (hiring the wrong guys etc) Its already been established on this thread that if you are wrong you are fired..

I not for or against the guy, but throwing around generalities whether its pro democrat or pro republican doesnt do any good imo..

Well a card came up last night listed by PWCC I've had on my want list forever. Needless to say, I didnt bid! It wasnt do to the market madness, but my own morals. Doubt he is missing my revenue, but this is one person that wont be shilling up, or selling a doctored card to.

Best advice my stepfather ever gave me, ‘Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.’

No opinions her, just numbers for people to consider when gauging our federal response.

January 20-
- US reports first cases
- S Korea reports first cases

March 12
- US has tested 10,058
- S Korea has tested 234,998

March 17
- US has tested 72 per million residents and new infection curve is rapidly trending upward (now agreed by all, including current administration)
- S Korea has tested 5400 per million residents and new infection curve is declining

And my father added

"And most of them stink"

President Trump donated his salary toward the Virus......meanwhile the Democratic Party just spent $6 Million dollars on Ads against Trump.

Had they spent that $6 million to aid in the Virus fight, using that toward masks or supplies for hospitals, they get mine and a lot more people's respect, and votes.

Blowing that much on Ads in a time of crisis, just mind-blowing.

Haha, and so did my dad, and Sgt O’Neill from Platoon, and every football coach I (or probably everyone else) ever had.

I have always heard "and they all smell different".

So you've heard, but experience dictates otherwise?

This is why politics is dumb...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...mp/ncna1174041

They can't. That is donated money and specifically earmaked toward the democratic campaign. Big trouble if they use it for anything else.

I always heard,"Tell that a$$hole to shut up!"

Though at least prominant one man has been known to use charitable donations to their own foundation to cover personal obligations, legal debt, etc, and not get into too much trouble.

Yeah, about that salary donation thing....

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/4/2116447...hs-coronavirus

Ted

delete

Of someone passes gas


"Did you hear what that ahole said behind you"

Adding-

Would you make dismissive comments like “it’s just like the flu, people die from the flu”, and insinuate that it will just blow over when the weather warms up, while scientists and health officials were still fully trying to assess these things.

Falsely inform the public that we’re weeks/months away from a cure, while expert Anthony Fauci is saying it will be at least a year or more before one is developed and fully approved for use.

Make funny jokes like “I can’t touch my face, I miss my face(haha)”, and focus oddly on performance of the stock market- “it looks great”, “they told me I set a record today” while other places like N Korea were taking very serious steps to broadly test, then broadly track all those tested, especially those testing positive w/ a tracking app?

It blows me away what people will believe anymore. So many fake news outlets out there nowadays, one can only view them as Info-tainment and nothing more.

Main stream media (MSM) is the same way, all out to influence and brainwash your mind.

CNN, MSNB, NY Times, the list goes on and on. All out to get Trump like a bunch of petulant children who are still struggling with the fact the Dems lost the last election.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/vox/

These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy.

Then both sides are a bunch idiots. Amazing.


And I don't want to hear they can't use that money for anything else. That's BS.


You use that money toward the crisis and someone is gonna complain?

CBS News admits 'mistake' after airing footage of overcrowded Italian hospital in report about NYC

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cbs-ne...ually-in-italy

https://www.wcbm.com/2020/04/01/cbs-...ort-about-nyc/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ian-hospital-/

https://www.dailywire.com/news/cbs-n...port-about-nyc

Glad to see they admitted it, but you can bet your ass they were called out on it first by many.

Info-tainment, people, because fear/hate sells and it helps their ratings. :(

Jake Tapper (CNN) interviewed Governor Gavin Newsom (Democrat) today and he tried to get him to say negative things about Trump, and goes so how would you evaluate the President's job so far. Newsom, even shocked me a bit, goes he's done a great job and goes on praising him. The look on Tapper's face, he never saw that coming. And oddly enough I can't find it or I'd post the link. CNN is probably shredding it in the back room right now.

This is your take away right now? There’s been far worse passed off as “news”, and I give them at least some credit for owning it, unlike several other media outlets when confronted with falsehoods.

Meanwhile 391 people died in a day in NYC or Corvona related illnesss (FACT). My sister was on a conference call last week with other surgeons/doctors, and they’re prepping for models which have that potentially growing to 4-5K/day very soon. This was not media selling a story, these were medical professionals, experts using best available data. Ideally well minded/intentioned people working very hard, and/or simply behaving as instructed will help prevent that from happening there or anywhere else.

Forrest through the trees.

Newsom gave a live address to the state to tell us about the statewide lockdown, and complimented the Pres for the recent support. This was seen by millions and reported on. Stop trying to make shit up (“CNN shredding”) to fan the flames, further polarize.

Speaking of flames, the governor even held his composure after Trump had just accused him of “poor forrest management”, and then with all present twice called the town or Paradise, the town of “Pleasure”. That said, he didn’t have to speak up, an exhausted firefighter corrected him on camera. Roughly 90% of that “town” of about 25-30K’s structures had just been completely destroyed.

oh good, please post it, I can't find it.

It shouldn’t be hard for you to find the governor’s live address on line, I’ll let you do the investigative leg work.

... Or don’t, and you can just happily keep working to drive the wedge between people. More divisiveness is exactly what we need right now.. as well as your great public health advice from prior posts. People dying are just in “overtime”, right?

Overtime or Extra Innings.

I like to relate everything to sports.

That is a nice bit of equivocation. He didn't ever mention the loss of life until it was blatantly obvious that the loss of life will be substantial. There is plenty of ink out there regarding the President's early (non)reactions to the virus. But, here are two of my favorites:

February 24: The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me! (Note on 2/24, the DJIA closed at 27,938. Today closed at 20,910.)

February 26:And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.

I am referring specifically to his pushing of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as some kind of miracle cure, when there is absolutely no evidence it works. Hydroxychloroquine is an anti-malarial and azithromycin is an antibiotic. Neither are anti-virals. Now, it is entirely possible that they may work. After all, rogaine started out as a blood pressure medicine. However, there has been no clinical trials and the two most publicized studies of their use have such huge procedural flaws that it is impossible to draw any scientifically sound conclusions from them. And I've heard no responsible doctor or relevant scientist say otherwise.

Come on now. Are you really trying to suggest that Trump was listening to experts all along? I've seen plenty of experts talk about this (I have a friend and a brother-in-law who are both virologists) and all of them were sounding the alarm. Heck, even the political class was sounding the alarm. On February 4, Chris Murphy, a senator from Connecticut said the following: "Just left the Administration briefing on Coronavirus. Bottom line: they aren't taking this seriously enough. Notably, no request for ANY emergency funding, which is a big mistake. Local health systems need supplies, training, screening staff etc. And they need it now."
You'll have to point out for me where I made any comment about anyone political affiliation. Noting gross incompetence isn't political.

I start a post about Carl Hubbell and it gets “watercoolered” in a day and this political crap is allowed to continue, what gives?

No, the message I was trying to convey was don't always believe what you are told, even if it is from MSM, and to always keep an open mind and do some research yourself before you draw conclusions.

Just like ABC showed footage from a NJ gun range and tried to pass it off as a war zone from Syria, there are many others out there, the majority left leaning, that do this constantly without consequence.

Were you aware of the story CNN fabricated about Nick Sandman all because he was wearing a red MAGA hat?

He just won a large settlement from them and is going after others who also portrayed him in a negative/false light.

This kid and his family had death threats against them and were told and called all sorts of things.
Did you hear anything from CNN about losing this case and having to pay out millions to him? I highly doubt it but we should have.
Here's the real story. I assume you are familiar with the fake one they made to make Trump and all his supporters look like evil bastards?

I despise CNN and MSNBC and a few others up here as well. Their blatant lies and manipulation bothers me when I see people get gut hooked into believing them thinking they are getting the truth and the whole story. :mad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSkp...JgaLDKxkjP3oAw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQBqBY7fm4