Total reproduction. Paint is all wrong, and as fake as they come.

The trees are quite different, too.

Yep and it has the closed off spine so that a dowel can’t be used.

Yes! I see that now.

Mine are all different shades of red. Good movie title … 5 Shades of Red. Rated G.

The bottom is just slightly deeper, like crimson.

Question for Kyle:

With all the subtle variations we’ve been seeing, how often do you think the pennant makers would have had to “change out” their screens? I think Trench made thousands of the left handed batter and bridge for the Giants. I wonder how many they could get out of one screen…

Good question. Once you burn your screen (stencil), if made properly, it could last several thousand runs. They're quite durable.

If the pennant was polychromatic, it might actually be made with up to four screens, depending on how many colors it featured. (One screen per color.)

I suspect for each pennant they burned a couple of screens, just in case the primary screen became damaged, e.g., torn mesh. If they were trying to screen a lot of pennants really quickly, like an NL/AL champs pennant for sale at a world series, you might have multiple presses printing the same pennant, side by side.

Here's what a well used screen looked like after a few thousand runs at Chicago Pennant Co....

If they needed a new screen because the old wore out, would they copy it somehow? In a way that might “lessen” the quality of the original graphics? Or would they start from new?

Good info, as always.

We did some silk screening in HS (I think) shop class. I seem to remember using an X-acto knife to cut the stencil. What do you mean by “burning” a screen?

The Seattle screen is cool….do you own it?

I think this is only the second purple Giants pennant I own.

The screens were "burned" because the process involved exposing the screen to a UV light source before performing a "wash out" resulting in the stencil you saw above.

That green substance you see, called "emulsion," is photo sensitive. It's dry/hardened now; but, when it was first developed, the artwork/graphics would have been transferred to transparent paper; then placed atop the dried emulsion inside a dark room. After exposing it to a UV light source for a few minutes, the exposed parts of the emulsion would harden and become waterproof. The unexposed areas (covered by the artwork/graphics) would remain, however, water soluble. When hit with a blast of water, this area of the screen would blow out, creating holes for paint to pass through.

That's how these stencils were made....

^^^^ pretty much how you do yours, yes?

Am I dreaming in thinking I somehow used an X-acto knife in shop class? :p

Exact same process. With a lot less fancy equipment.

...and no X-acto knives. ;)

My last word on this…..I could have sworn we cut some sort of film with an X-acto knife…maybe to make a “negative” to bond to a screen? I dunno…it was a looooong time ago.

I just checked screen printing kits on Amazon….none of them include X-acto knives. :p

I think if that company owned the original artwork, and they needed to burn another screen, they would remake it using the original artwork--which was likely saved in a file somewhere for just such a purpose. Therefore, I'd expect the successive screens to match the quality of the first.

But, if you were gonna burn a screen by ripping off someone else's artwork, which certainly happened in the pennant biz, then perhaps your knock-off stencil would lose some detail during the translation process? Additionally, if the the resulting pennant were made on a screen with a different mesh count than those made from the original, that would certainly result in a slightly different looking pennant.

Sometimes you might change your screen to a lower mesh count to improve the opacity of your print. Other times you might go with a screen with a higher mesh count to enhance the detail of your print. There are sooooo many variables when making a pennant.

It's all trial and error.... I'm certain some makers made adjustments midway through a production run resulting in very minor variations.

Gives us something to talk about, that's for sure!

Welcome Phil and Phillis to the pennant basement! These are technically pennants as they have a spine on the back for a dowel …

Anyone from the South Jersey area ever seen the original Phil and Phillis Veterans Stadium “statues” at Storybook Land?

Greg, I always thought those were cool products! Glad that they made it to the basement.

I believe those were made by HANCO, right? Did they make these for any other MLB teams? I wanna say I've seen one for the Minnesota Twins, maybe?

I may have nightmares about Phil and Phillis!

Correct. HANCO. And yes I’ve seen the Twins but no other.

Here they are, permanently residing in Egg Harbor Township, NJ. A must see for anyone making the drive from Philly to Atlantic City.

Gotta believe these were made by same company with the dowel column running down the center. The Reds had 2 versions of this…. Mid 1970s manufacture, just like Phil and if Phillis.

https://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/39419385...UAAOSwUE5hcIcx

Here’s the 1976 “repeat” version. The description saying “1975” is incorrect…

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...all-1935223609

Yep looks like it. I think I’ve seen some NFL pennants like this, in particular Green Bay.

They made the Orioles as well.

And Batman.

Interesting. Look carefully: these Reds ones were actually made by ASCO--not HANCO. (ASCO's unique circle + arrow mark can be seen above the copyright.)

They're otherwise identical to the Phill/Phillis combo bearing HANCO's name, i,e., screen printed on white felt w/ a sleeve for a dowel on the reverse center line.

Felt Pennant Figures
 

Here's the Minnesota Twins one I recall seeing. This one's a bit different; instead of going with the cartoonish pair of twin brothers flanking the Mississippi River--which would really complement the Phil/Phillis pairing a bit better--they went with a more realist looking baseball player.

Upon further inspection, that's because this felt figure was made by a different maker: Kresse Kreations (Not Hanco, not ASCO.)

It appears Kresse made a few other similar versions for MLB and even NHL teams....

Great research and information, Kyle...

Hard to believe that 3 separate companies would manufacture such a similar (and short-lived) product.

Kyle- there is a Dodgers version of a batter-shaped pennant. I saw it on ebay less than a month ago (although I can't seem to find it now). It said something like NL champs or World series on it.

WHAAAT. Oh, we must find it now....

Did it look like it was made in the mid-70s, as these were?

Bucks and Brewers. A stick in the Bucks would stop at the grommet.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=35065https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=35066

I can't find it, either in current or completed items.

I believe it was attributed to 1978, either the word series or championship series. I remember thinking that it looked like Steve Garvey. 1970s look for sure.

Because I don't ever search for Dodgers pennants, it must have come up in a general search for "pennant." But, again, I can't find it.

Meet Mr. Met....

Same construction as the previous felt figure pennants. No maker's mark on this one.

Wasn't there a Mrs. Met, too?

From the oversized turn of the century pennants to these monstrosities…

Here is one of the Orioles mascot. Have never seen a Giants version. But there are enough Phillies versions out there for Greg to start on a second basement.

Nightmare material. I think Ed and Lorraine Warren exorcised one of those Phillies things.

This one says 79 AL champs on the bat. So, these felt figure pennants were made for a good five years or so....

Can you read the maker's mark on the bird's leg?

Here's a few more felt figure pennants by Kresse Kreations....

Green Bay Packers
Chicago White Sox
Univ. of Wisconsin
Univ. of North Carolina (no mark; but looks to be by Kresse)

These must have been more popular than we thought!

The Orioles just says TM Baltimore Orioles.

There are football shaped pennants from the Raiders Vikings Super Bowl. They have the ASCO mark.

New addition

Even though the baseball looks like a basketball, at least the felt is triangular. :p

I’ve never seen that design before. I’ll be interested to hear how many have seen this one before and if there are other teams made with the same design.

This almost looks like folk art. Really cool.

Here’s one of mine.

That White Sox batter pennant is just awesome. Might be one of the best uniforms ever. (Replaced by *the* very best uniform, Chisox circa 1976-81.)

The Pirates (and thus the Braves) appear to be of the same maker as these, by virtue of similar fonts:

I can see how the font of the TEAM name is similar on the bottom three but not on the Dodgers. :confused:

Can't thank you enough for changing the theme back to triangular pennants.

Those die cut "center dowel" creations were starting to depress me. Especially the disturbing and creepy Philadelphia Phillis Sextuplets.

That's a cool Pirates pennant. I've seen maybe 4 from the rare series, but yours is the first Pirates. Must've been made in very limited quantities. Would love to find a Reds version some day.

Slightly less nightmare inducing...

Your welcome. I got this in a group of 60's pennants on Christmas eve. I had never seen this type before and also thought it was a little basketballish
but with the stadium background, Baseball

I hate the Phil and Phillis

Then again....A leering Phil reaching out to grope Phillis with a prodigious bulge in his pants, isn't much of an improvement.

Lettering in city name is identical on Brooklyn and St. Louis. Also similar construction. Here’s another that fits … I also think the Giants Cinderella Boys is in this mold.

Rare scores on Ebay are becoming...ummm...pretty rare. But this was a nice one. I had never seen before. I don't believe the maker of these has ever been identified. Artwork seems similar to a Joe Dimaggio out there. Potentially one of the "rarer" Jackie Robinson pennants too.

Once I was blind but now I see.

Rob, I saw that disappeared pretty quickly, and I assumed Jonsstats grabbed it. I believe Mark has one, but haven’t seen any others. Nice pickup. I don’t search eBay often enough to get any great finds anymore. Someone always beats me to them.

Rick

I got pretty lucky on this one. I had to scroll down a bit before I saw it which is exceedingly rare these days. I expected to get bad news when I hit buy it now but to my surprise it was available. Usually the good ones are gone within seconds.

Great score Rob...

So impossible to beat everyone else to the punch these days. Requires lots of persistence and lotsa luck. I do have one of these Pee Wees with a similarly blunted tip. Have never seen another.

The maker of these pennants did a number of Brooklyn Pennants, a couple of Braves and a NY Giants that I'm aware of. I think some of them say "My Fan" in small font, and most/all seem to be 3/4 size. Whoever the "mystery maker" is, I like their artwork a lot.

Everyone probably already saw this but just in case. Now available for 20% off (with coupon) if interested. Reputable dealer too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36393140924...mis&media=COPY

Is there a way to tell how many minutes this was listed for before you swooped in?

I'm reasonably certain this mystery maker was AMCO, a local Brooklyn-based pennant maker that specialized in Dodger pennants in the late 1940s, early 50s.

More to come on AMCO in '23 on Pennant Fever, when time permits.

There’s another Dodgers pennant that, I think, has the same tiny batter graphic as the one inside the ‘D’. I think it’s a rare bum pennant, also not full-size but 2/3 or 3/4. Someone posted it here, maybe Mark? I know it looks familiar.

EDIT: Yep, Mark, back on page 5 … and yes it includes “my fan”

Great pickup Rob. And a pretty reasonable price too.

A few new year's arrivals for the thread.

Great stuff, Gary! I love the little batter on the 1967 ASG pennant.

Same here.

That '67 All Star is a pretty tough pennant. And a great one... the longest ever ASG with Tony Perez finally emerging as the hero with a bomb off of Catfish Hunter. Trench did a crappy job with the tassels though. They used those "crispy" brittle tassels that would break off if bent just the slightest bit too far.

I think the ‘69 might be just as tough …

Thanks guys. I think the 67 ASG is by Trench. Is that right?

Any ideas about the 69?

Both are Trench IMO

Domer … these two pennants seem to be of the same year and same maker. Wouldn’t this suggest a company besides Trench? The scroll graphic is so radically different from what we know to be Trench.

Used the extended weekend to add these to the basement gallery. They cover a food pantry, I did have 1980s pennants on them that I didn’t mind cutting up. Anyway, most of these are from the “sliding runner” pennant company - one that doesn’t get enough love in my opinion. Some of their graphics are actually pretty cool and they gave us the full body roster pennant.

It would actually be a cool display to have the sliding runner pennant for all 16 teams, but I don’t think I’ve seen it for either the Tigers or Pirates. (I have seen it for the IL Orioles.)

The bottom one from '51 featuring the double-wide scroll, in my opinion, was likely made by AMCO. They made a similar one for the '49 Dodgers.

The top one is a bit of an anomaly.... It could be from '51; but I don't think we can completely rule out '54 either (having said that, I can't recall seeing a Cleveland Indians AL champs mate/variant, can you?). As you know, my opinion is that Trench made this "insert stadium name series" throughout the 1940s and 50s. I based that opinion on two important characteristics in them: they were all 8" x 26"; and they were polychromatic. Unfortunately, this NY Giant pennant is full size and monochrome.... So, I'm reluctant to label it as being made by Trench.

Perhaps it was a knock off? If so, a knock off by AMCO? That might explain why the "NEW YORK" letter scripts look so similar. Or, was the concessioner at the Polo Grounds only interested in buying full size, one color pennants from Trench?? I have no idea.

But it's an interesting pennant.

Would you guys guess this pennant was originally white? It's a shame it's so hammered. Very unique look. If I were a D**gers guy, I mught have to try a little "restoration." :p

It was once blue. It would not have a white spine against white cloth. And the blue cloth on pennants of this era is notorious for fading to that drab brownish grey color.

Here’s the back of the Cindarella Boys, it’s sealed so I don’t want to take it out. The tassels are identical to that of the orange: thick and gray. Here also is the 1950 Phillies which is also full-size, along with a known 1950 Trench. They just seem so radically different in style.

Yes, interesting pennant and discussion indeed …

Here is a different version with better color that I picked up pretty cheaply as it was torn in 3 places and had the missing tip. I did glue the tears so it looks a little nicer, but the tip is beyond repair. Still, the artwork is terrific.

Rick
Attachment 550828

The artwork is terrific. I wonder who made it?

I just picked up (and probably overpaid for) a 3/4 version of the LH batter and bridge. Being only 3" shorter, this is really the 9/10th version :p. Again, the 9/10th version has a different "F" than is ever seen on the full size versions.

I also just picked up this little "chrome" charm to go with the "bronze-ish" pin I already had. This is the same Giant seen on various NY and SF pennants.

There are also subtle differences in the bridge cables, significant enough to suggest a different screen.

Fascinating to see an entire run of these little gumball pins for the original 16 franchises--I guess they're gumball issues, not sure if anybody's proved that--pop up on eBay, a collection that had to take a while for somebody to put together. Quite hard to come by, as are their metal twins as shown. Love this kind of oddball stuff.

All it needs is for someone to perform an addatiptomy.