The Oilers I have above is full size, and identical in design to the 5 x 12. As rare as the minis are, the full size ones seem even more rare. I think I've seen the Oilers and the Packers. Fballguy has a pic of a packers fan with one at a Super Bowl. And I think Mark has/had the Steelers. That's all I've seen.

I'd think that the Bills above is older, and not part of the same series. It does not match style wise.

Edited: So, I just found a copy of the Bills mini pennant on Worthpoint. See below. And it has an American Knitwear stamp. So, I guess that answers that for the mini pennants (and their large counterparts). Not sure about Fballguy's Bills pennant.

That's a really nice pennant. I love the look of it.

Are those Baseball Keezer pennants mini pennants like the football or full size?

JR has a different Keezer Yankees on ebay than the one shown in Erik’s collage. It’s rough.

Yes...Full size. I can send exact measurements and a pic of the stamp when I get home this weekend. I didn't compare the stamp to baseball Keezers I have, but at first glance it looks just like the baseball stamp. Not sure if the stamp evolved over the years.

Marc...Your large Oilers and my Bills have the same stiff non-"felt" tassels.

That strange tassel material (and sometimes spines) seems to suggest that they came from the same era, probably early 1960s.

Gary- the baseball Keezer ones I have been posting (e.g., White Sox) are full size.

These are all stamped American Knitwear. All mini pennants.

Wow, nice find Marc. Who knew all you had to do was search for "American Knitwear" (rather than Keezer) pennants?

That Pirate mini is different from the normal, full size Pirate we always associated with Keezer. Come to think of it, it seems awfully consistent with Marc's SF Giants pennant, bearing no mark, but believed to be by Keezer/American Knitwear.

Both are 5" x 12".

Doesn't this suggest there's a whole set of baseball 5" x 12" minis by Keezer/American Knitwear with new artwork, not seen on older full size Keezers?

Hey, pennant guys
 

I agree - I think the Astros and Oilers may be from the same manufacturer. They look similar to me. I also wonder if the California angels pennant c. late 1965 or c. 1966 is from the same set? In my opinion it could be.

Originally, I didn’t think Rob’s Bills was from the same set since it had no name beneath the mascot, but the LA angels pennant below doesn’t have the team name either, but it is clearly of the same design as the California version. So it could be an earlier version (pre 64 brochure)?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1d862f9d13.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1ab048e188.jpg

Those two absolutely could be from the same set!

Here's another definite Keezer. It's a shame the vast majority of these football Keezers are mini's. :(

Jackie Robinson barnstorming pennant
 

Here are a couple photos of my Jackie Robinson 1953-54 barnstorming pennant on display at the Jackie Robinson Museum in NYC. It's displayed right below a 1997 50th anniversary pennant, and right next to a 1949 Welcome Dodgers banner that is high up on my wish list. I haven't made it to see the museum in person yet, buy hopefully will soon. I know several MLB teams have toured the museum when they traveled to NY since it opened.

Rick

Attachment 540939Attachment 540940

That’s awesome. What a great pennant and the condition is spectacular. Any idea if there is UV protection on that glass or the holder? I only ask because those pennants fade so easily, I can’t imagine there is a more pristine version of that in existence.

Yes, it’s protected. I would be surprised if any newly constructed major museum didn’t use UV glass these days. I’ve been loaning items to museums for a while now and never had an issue. On the other hand, I have a friend who loaned a baseball glove to the Baseball HOF for 5 years, and the markings on the glove were certainly faded when it was returned. He thought it was displayed in UV glass, but who knows for sure.

Rick

Great stuff Rick. I personally use all LED lights as well. You’re a lot braver than I loaning your stuff out. It’s always great to share, but few people treat our items like we would treat them. I would be worried to no end.

The. Choices for a World Series Pennant in Philly are weak

How much do those depreciate once you take them off the rack? 100%?

Jason, yeah, I do worry the whole time they are gone that they will return just as they left. I try to deal with major museums only in the hopes they know what they are doing. I have turned down requests when I don't know the organization very well. My biggest concern was when I lent items to Dodger Stadium for their pop-up museum since I knew they used florescent lights and there were a lot of windows. But all of my exhibits had UV filtering acrylic to protect them, and the exhibit was only for a couple of months. I enjoy sharing items from my collection, and I guess that outweighs my concerns for the slight risk they will be damaged in some manner.

Rick

Yeah, I enjoy sharing stuff too. Wish caretakers and historians cared as much as we do.

Rick, you’re a better man than I.

I won’t even leave a valued piece with a professional framer, in the fear they’ll “f” something up. I must have at least 300 framed pieces, and have done every single one myself. :eek:

Same here Mark.

Not. Vintage. (Late 70s repro)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26597641274...-uJYQ&LH_BIN=1

The mini-version of the pennant pictured below.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12558362571...Q&LH_Auction=1

An ugly pennant, for sure. I assumed Ad Flag until recently noticing that the lettering is distinctly WGN.

Hey, pennant guys
 

Disagree, Greg. I think that’s beautiful! You own the full sized version?

That’s Erik’s….

Hmmm, I think Greg’s correct. I am selling about 20 vintage Angels pennants on eBay (a few sold) And his keen eye recognized this one, but the others are all vintage. I’ll adjust the listing. Thx for bringing it up!

Hey Erik! Yikes … Didn’t know that was you! That’s a nice batch of Angels pennants you have …

Yes I got it about 7-8 years ago. The graphic is horrifying. If I hung this in my room as a kid I’d probably have nightmares.

Here's a seller with some good prices...... if you could only move that pesky decimal point to the left, that is...

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_dkr...ates%20pennant

This is an amazing thread and with over 1.4 million views. Wow

Just wondering is this one of the longest and most viewed threads?

I offered to sell him all my late-80s helmet pennants for $50 a piece. That way he could double or triple his money, but no response. If I could get his Browns prices, I'd be posting from an over the water bungalow in Bora Bora full time.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_dkr...owns%20pennant

The funny thing is, one of his best pennants, the Philadelphia Athletics, isn't too unreasonably priced (by his standards). I'm surprised he didn't go with 4 digits.

This one is my favorite. Be sure to read the description.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16333780120...fiOYQ&LH_BIN=1

I offered him $60, he countered with $2,850. Kinda like a reverse Pawn Stars haggle!

Thanks for the much needed laugh. I got mine last year for $69 and free shipping. Guess that means mine wasn't a Salesman's Sample. :rolleyes:

Yes, it is the most viewed and longest on net54 (by far). Pretty amazing that the biggest thread resides on the Memorabilia side. I think that the distant #2 is the "What's Your Monster Number" thread on the Card side.

Notwithstanding that crazy price ... he is correct that his pennant is a (more rare?) variant.

I don't know about the "salesman's sample" logic; but there are some slight differences between the two that make me shake my head, e.g., stitching in the balls, detail in the grandstands, and the presence of the the flag at the tail-end.

I think the better explanation is the maker wanted to print this in white ink on red felt; but, because white ink is more viscous than darker colors, had to use a screen with a lower mesh count and a design with slightly less detail...? I can't come up with any other reason for such a slight variation.

Great analysis, Kyle. Even though yellow on black makes no sense for the Red Sox, it is a much more attractive pennant. Maybe if the red one wasn’t faded…

Here’s mine, which is an identical copy of the red one in your pic. The one on eBay seems to be a late 40s WGN, based on the spine and tassels. The little flag by the tip appears on other WGNs, there are Tigers pennants with the year written inside. The red versions possibly came later and were maybe copied by another company. The spine, tassels, and stitching are all different from typical WGN pennants.

In light of these findings I’m willing to up my offer … I think $80 is about right. ;)

I recently acquired the mid 1970s pennants pictured below. Has anyone seen the 1974 Nets pennant before? In my limited online search attempts, I found ones with no date and ones with a crown, but none with a date and no crown. Unfortunately, mine is missing the tip and has some dirt showing.

Alan

Alan I don’t collect hockey or basketball but I do notice them while looking for baseball. I can’t say I’ve ever seen that Nets pennant. Pretty cool!

I'm not sure WGN made this "ball thru the name" pennant series; but, you're correct about the little flag on the tail-end: it was used on other pennants, like this ca. 1947 Jackie Robinson pennant....

I think for sure the Red Sox and Jackie pennant are the same maker, the wide spine, stitching, thin tassels are all identical. One of a few reasons why I think they are WGN: the G in Dodgers is a unique style common to known WGNs. Also, the little flag towards the tip can be found on the Larry Doby pennant; that and the Satchel Paige have the common WGN font. I’m guessing that the company had a special run for early Black players, I think there’s one for Luke Easter, too.

Speaking of pennants with minor variances, here's another conundrum for you...

The more common Bum has fine whiskers... let's say about 2 days of growth.

The far rarer version has fewer/courser whiskers, looking like about 4 days of growth.

Other differences include the Cigar Ash, the Hat Brim detail, and the way the hair/sideburn covers his ear. I've always been intrigued by this and own 2 examples of each, though I'd estimate the "smaller whiskers" version outnumbers the other by about 8 to 1. Yet another hobby mystery!

Unsolved Pennant Mysteries, Season 1, Episode 1

Here’s the same bum, in color and with a pimple on his schnoz. Not Trench and possibly not the same company as the other bums you pictured.

Mark, I think these variations you've noted may have been unintentional. I think they may have been caused by the normal inconsistencies to be expected during the screen printing process--not necessarily something the graphic artist intended.

As we know, "quality control" was kind of absent when these pennants were being cranked out. Differences in screen mesh counts can alter the level of detail seen in the final product ... changes in humidity will affect the drying process ... lighter colored inks perform differently than darker ones. It's not always possible to make perfect copies, one after the next.

Yup. These do all appear to be by the same maker....

More specimens from the "ball thru the name" series, manufactured by the same maker as the Robinson, Paige, and Doby pennants....

I think it's a different template. Especially when you look at the Bum's hat brim and hair covering the ear. Too much variance to be a simple inconsistency. Also, there is no "inbetween" exemplar.

And look at the difference in lines between his eyes and eyebrows, all of which are all missing on the second example. These are two distinctively different Bum variations.

Agreed. And now here’s why I think they are all WGN. It’s the identical freestyle font. Zoom in on Satchel. Now look at how ‘Wrigley Field’ is written on a known WGN. Same dude. A couple more examples are included that show the same writing style in the roster, along with the same structure (identical spine, tassels).

Well, if WGN made this "ball thru the name" series, then that would mean they made this ca. 1958 Los Angeles Dodgers pennant as well....

...which looks nothing like WGN's known pennants from the late 1950s. This one's monochrome and features two pairs of tassels. By the late 1950s, WGN's pennants had no tassels; and, they were experimenting with polychromatic designs featuring a Day Glo color palette.

It's a close call; and I can see the resemblance to WGN; but, I think this series may just be by another maker.

I'm not so sure about this statement. The graphics on the two monochrome pennants seem like they're a different style/different artist. The graphics for the ball through the name series have more intricate graphics. The 2 monochrome Dodgers pennants seem to be lower quality graphics.

I agree with Greg that the other Ball through the Name pennants look like WGN but the 2 Dodgers pennants are a different manufacturer.

This is good! We may not be able to fully convince each other but it’s nice to discuss. Now that LA Dodgers pennant is interesting to me, look how LOS ANGELES is written. One of our Giants collectors (or both?) has a green SF Giants pennant with gold print that is similar to the one pictured here and if my memory is correct it’s the same unique style font used to write SAN FRANCISCO. I can’t find a pic, maybe they can help.

What strikes me is how the wide spine and thin tassels are identical in all of these pennants. The fact that the tassels are made of the same exact felt and are same color as the body of the pennant. I suggest that the more likely scenario is that WGN simply made some with tassels and some without, at the same time. We know that Trench has done this in the late 50s.

This too, I think, is a late 40s WGN

Here is the SF Giants

Thanks Marc. Yes, the font in the city name is identical to that of the pictured LA Dodgers. But the giant graphic is that of an older NYG made (presumably) by WGN.

Okay now for a counter-example. These two 1954 Indians pennants have every indication that they were made by different companies. The dancing Indian seems Trench and Chief Wahoo looks like WGN or at least “not Trench”. That is, if you consider the construction of each. (Spine, tassels, etc).

The rosters, however, are identical. The font is definitely Trench as can be seen in their other scroll pennants.

So I’m baffled by these …

On another note, boy is there a bunch of beautiful ‘54 Indians pennants …

(I don’t own these exact pennants, the top one I have in a different color.)

Greg, Kyle and Mark need to spearhead a coffee table type pennant book. The rest of us can chip in. :p

No argument from me on the connection between the first two LA Dodger and SF Giant pennants below. Same distinctive "A" and "S" used in both city scripts. Same construction. Therefore, Greg, I agree: they were likely made by the same maker.

But, if that maker was WGN, then that does not answer why these two pennants look nothing like others we're 100% certain were by WGN from that year. And that, to me, is where the comparison falls apart....

Here's two 1958-dated LA Dodger and SF Giant pennants we know for certain to be by WGN. And another from later that year for the Milwaukee Braves. As you can see, these last three are nothing like the first two. So, that's why I think their maker may be someone else.

Good discussion! :)

^^^^ based on the “artwork” of the top two, I can’t imagine those were done by WGN….unless WGN once had a “Bring Your Kids to Work Day.”

Here are some 1958-59 pennants. (None of which I own.) First two seem to be WGN based on past logos. The others?

Could it be that the 1958 LAD and SFG were really 1960s pennants? That the year is simply a reference to their inaugural season? I dunno, just speculating …

No, I don't think so. WGN made polychromatic versions the following year for both LAD and SFG with a similarly undersized "1959" on them. So I think they updated each pennant, each year, for the first two years or so. Never seen a 1960-dated variant.

Here's one that hit the market before they could screen in the "59".

I have never seen a Giants version with 1959. :confused:

Alan,
This pennant is not rare, but obviously it’s one of the ones people want because of the date and the Dr J ties. Also tougher condition wise because it’s white. I see it occasionally, but it’s think your looks good. If the tip bothers you, you’ll be able to find another in time.

Some recent pickups. The Super Bowl XIX is a bootleg that is very, very tough to find. Thanks to Fballguy for finding it. Super Bowl XIX is prime 49ers fandom time for me, so I'm really happy with this one.

The yellow 49ers is part of a series that I have only seen as a tough-to-find mini-pennant (9 inches, I think). This 24-inch version showed up on ebay last week, along with 24 inch versions from other early 1960s (I think) NFL teams. I like it a lot. Am going to find a place for it on the wall.

The Astros is common in dark blue, but rare in Orange.

Cool pennants Marc! I’ve never seen any of those three before.

Thank you Greg and Jason! I really appreciate the information.

I'll bet the Niner Super Collector doesn't even have that yellow Niners pennant. In years of searching I've never seen a set of 24" NFL pennants. Super cool get.

So, you bought some others in order to get the Niners?

Happy Thanksgiving, Pennant Guys!

Elton John Pennant by Oxford Pennant
 

Thanks to my friends at Oxford Pennant in Buffalo, NY for sharing this wonderfully made Elton John tour pennant with me! These guys created a vintage-inspired pennant commemorating the legendary singer's final US concert, which took place at Dodger Stadium this past Sunday.

As you can see, their attention to detail was spot on, all the way down to the artwork and unique letter script used--an homage to another Buffalo pennant maker: Trench Mfg. Co., of course.

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.

Kyle that’s awesome! Thanks for sharing. Good thing they didn’t try to copy an Ad Flag pennant!

Another fake. He would be doing himself a favor to check in on this forum periodically...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20412019359...gAAOSwdeVjSGb7

He bought that from the clown in Canada. No way he doesn't know that's not an original. A five year old would know that's not an original.

My goodness. This doesn’t even look like an intended fake, but more like someone 6th grade arts and crafts project (including hand sewing).

5 bids on it so far (and all 5 from different bidders). Sad :(

This is a sweet pennant. Looks exactly like the classic 1960’s Dodger Stadium type. Elton John is great show as well. My boats name is the Tiny Dancer.

Elton John pennant on ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40401829214...Q&LH_Auction=1

This auction was from last year … I just came across it … wow. Incredible pennant.

https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-6334793

Probably not doing himself any favors showing a stack of them in the picture, but still over $100 already.

He's making a killing.... One sold for over $200 at auction :eek:

I thought the same. Neither the seller or the bidders are especially astute.