Nope not the only one. I'm with you. Boxes are much more likely to sneak through without damage than long flat pieces of cardboard.

Joe, if you've got old B/W photos of pennants in action, I think you should post'em :)

Cornell had to have some of the best pennants ever made in the early 20th century. They were like the Detroit Tigers of the collegiate pennant market!

That is a nice looking pennant. What year was the pennant produced?

Thank you.

I just had to deal with this and figured we should brainstorm ideas. Unfortunately I think loosely rolling is the only solution. If anyone has any other suggestions I’m all ears. J

I received a pennant just today (from eBay). It was a 29" pennant in a 25" flat box. And yes.... 4" of the tip was sticking out of the box with no protection whatsoever.

Seems like eBay sellers are getting even more clueless (if that's even possible).

I got surprised by this on Monday at the post office and bit the bullet on a $39.90 shipping charge (included additional insurance). Yesterday, I was playing around on UPS.com and assuming I used their quote feature correctly, the same package with the same insurance would've been only $23.

Now there's an idea. It's only a matter of time before people start folding pennants...though that wasn't entirely uncommon before this surcharge started.

I imagine free shipping will become obsolete for most pennants...probably quite a few eBay sellers will learn the hard way before adjusting their listings.

Rob,
I don’t use it, but if you are buying the insurance I’ve heard you’re much better off getting an umbrella policy for sellers through one of the hobby specific insurance companies. USPS is pretty much worthless for insurance. Have you ever received money on a claim?

I received money on a USPS claim for a situation similar to what Mark described, of a flat-shipped pennant that had holes in the packaging and pennant. Clear damage on the pennant matching the holes in the packaging. Because I was the buyer, it was easy to show what I had paid on ebay.

I've heard that the process is much more difficult for the stuff that goes missing. They just keep saying that it is delayed.

Knock on wood...I'm almost afraid to say this because I heard that package I sent on Monday was delivered to the wrong address. Still waiting to hear all is good on it....but I have never had to file a claim with the USPS. Again...Knock on wood.

On March 29, I spent an hour and a half trying to file an online claim. After many error messages (even after talking to "technical support"), I gave up and talked to someone to get a paper claim form mailed to me. Having not received it for nine days, I called again yesterday. They had a record of my request but, lo and behold, they never sent the form. WTF? Are they trying to run out the clock on me? :mad:

You're going to have to foul them Rob. :)

Anyone seen he latest REA auction that just opened for bidding?

some AMAZING pennants in there. Well outside of my price range but...just...WOW

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...searchin=title


G@ry G01db3rg

As a general rule, the less we have to deal with the government, the better life is. Filing a USPS claim is certainly no exception.

With regard to REA, I would love to know what the full spine looks like on that oversized Red Sox pennant with the “Boston mini” attached. I know the bottom tassels are probably missing, but wonder if the spine is all there.

It would be quite an expensive proposition to win it, separate the two, and potentially be disappointed at what lies underneath. Sure wish REA could un-frame it and provide some more revealing photos!

Now here’s a pennant mystery for our pal Kyle.

You might have seen before the late 40s/early 50s Tigers “Johnny Groth” pennant. Why Johnny Groth? He seemed like an okay player - he played OF - but only 5.8 career WAR, just an ordinary regular. No such pennant for George Kell, Vic Wertz or another half dozen better players. Odd.

Well Marc tipped me off to this weird 1960 Pirates pennant on eBay. Not a full team scroll but just the lineup … who is playing shortstop? “Groth”.

Now wait a minute. The SS was Dick Groat, not Groth. Johnny had finished his career as a reserve earlier that year … for Detroit. Never played for Pittsburgh.

So what is it about Johnny Groth? Well one thing is very clear: these are both WGN pennants. Same style and the font used for player names is a giveaway.

Pulling up Johnny Groth’s SABR bio, you learn he was born and raised in Chicago, and his father was an electrotype salesman. So … looks like hometown boy got some extra love!

Johnny passed away last August at age 95 … had 28 grandchildren …

Also, who the heck is playing second? Two M’s in Mazeroski???

What a funky cool pennant. Never even noticed that it was Groth and not Groat.

What's the deal on that? Was it a thing to stitch pennants together at weird angles in the early 20th century? And then frame it like that?

Hmmm, never seen this Tigers pennant with the Groth variation. Really weird. I wonder if maybe they added his name, after-the-fact, as part of ... a promotion he may have appeared at?? I dunno. That's really weird.

Maybe he was a fan favorite, and the Tigers hosted a "Johnny Groth Day," and they made a limited run of these for the occasion?

As to the 1960 one, that's an even weirder pennant. Ugly, too. I'm not sure it's by WGN ... other than the name "GROTH" it looks unlike other known WGN baseball pennants post-1958, many of which (but not all) were polychromatic and featured their Day-Glo paint scheme.

What's the significance of, "Law Friend Face"??

Pitchers: Vern Law, Bob Friend, Roy Face

Possible source/day for the Detroit pennant:

https://sabr.org/gamesproj/game/apri...marching-home/

Oh I’m fairly certain it’s WGN. Or let’s say that I’m certain it was made by the same designers who made WGN pennants in the 40s and early 50s. Maybe another company signed them as free agents LOL. Spine/tassels/stitching all resemble the style of the Groth Tigers pennant and others. Thin tassels that are same color as the body, closer towards the center than corners, thick spine, white single stitch thread. Here’s a ‘44 Browns pennant with the exact same handwritten letter font. And then of course there’s the weird Groth connection.

They made a not too uncommon ‘59 Chisox scroll pennant in all-white print. I will say that even by the early 50s they stopped using tassels on most pennants and the spine was narrower. So it’s odd that this resembles their earlier ones. I still think that points to simply having multiple styles.

Another Groth related oddity is that I am almost certain that WGN made a 1946 dated pennant with roster, which was Groth’s rookie year. Had only 9 ABs.

That’s great info! Thanks Marc. Apparently he was very popular.

I'm guessing it was part of a patchwork quilt, and was removed in that way. As for the reason the Boston mini was never separated from the oversized pennant, one can only guess. Is it covering up a significant flaw or missing portion of the spine? That's the frustration.

And the crazy framing/matting job that accommodates the odd shape and bent tip of the Mini is simply bizarre. Makes me think there was a good reason for not separating the two.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=105013

Fatima College Pennants
 

Question for the group...were the College Pennants offered from the coupons and advertisements below, the same as the B54 large rectangular felts?
I ask because the B54s were closer to 13x28", and the pennants advertised by Fatima are listed as 12x32". Were there different Fatima College Pennants? If so, I am not sure I am aware of them.
Thanks
Joe

I came across this add from 1910 stating the the Fatima pennants were a "hand-sewn felt pennant", which which would seem to indicate they are not the B54 rugs, but rather your traditional college pennants with sewn on letters. If that's the case, I have never seen a tag or marking on a large pennant from Fatima or Liggett & Meyers. Have others?

I wonder where L&M sourced their pennants, and if they ever put their own tag or stamping on the reverse. Since they offered for over 100 colleges, etc., it would seem they sourced from a larger pennant manaufacturer.

Joe, I completely agree with you. Until your earlier post, I had always assumed that the promo items offered by Fatima Cigarettes ca. 1910 were limited to pennant-like items, e.g., leather squares embossed with an image of a school's pennant, or felt "rugs" with an illustration of same. I had no reason to think they offered full-size, sewed letter pennants. Apparently, they did, as per these advertisements you've unearthed. Nice work!

As to your latest post, I too am now wondering where they sourced their pennants from. My best guess is these promo pennants had no mark at all on them. If they had read "Smoke Fatima Cigarettes" on the reverse, we'd have surely come across such a distinctive mark.

It's an odd thing to have a promo pennant series with no branding whatsoever thereon. Isn't the whole point to promote sales of their products? The Ferguson Bakery (BF3) promo pennant series from ca. 1916 was mostly unbranded; however, their premiums had at least a maker's mark on the reverse (Bradford & Co.). On the other hand, The Detroit Free Press promo pennant series from ca. 1913 included a label on the reverse reading "Detroit Free Press." Adding a label or screening an extra mark would have added to the production costs, so maybe that's why Fatima didn't mark their pennants with their branding, as they did with their premium "rugs" (which could be easily stamped with their branding)?

If you're curious, here's the premium "rug" Fatima issued for Notre Dame....

WOW very nice looking "Rug" actually look good hanging on a wall

If you're into college pennants, I stumbled upon this place recently. Located in Branford, CT (with CT pricing to boot). Joe you may be particularly interested, if you aren't aware already. Didn't realize there were real live brick and mortar pennants stores out there.

PS...Sorry for the super size. Not enough coffee in me yet to mess with the photo sizes.

https://americanamemories.com

Thanks Rob. I am aware of Americana Memories, as they have a large on-line presence and on Etsy too. I didn't realize either they have an actual store. That would be cool to visit if I find myself in the area someday - like you said, they have some very healthy prices! :rolleyes:

BTW, looking at the picture you sent, I am not a fan of seeing pennants sitting out in the sun like that. I've seen how the older pennants can fade considerably over time, if exposed to sun.

Thanks Domer. Given the American Tobacco Company's (ATC) enormously broad and deep reach within all the colleges and universities, it would seem many would take advantage of the premium coupon offer. Seems to suggest that a very large proportion of the college sewn letter pennants that remain today, were actually distributed through the ATC.

Given the extensive amount of smoking that took place then, it would be very quick and easy for a student to amass 25 coupons.

Here's a piece on one of the typical smokers that happened at Cornell (there were many throughout the year), where 1,200 cans of tobacco and 30,000 Fatima cigarettes were donated by the American Tobacco Company - they had their hooks into all these students.

Yeah...When I saw the picture I was even more blown away that he had pennants sitting outside his store. I had to see where that was. Couldn't do that in Houston. Branford is a relatively wealthy community down on the CT shoreline. Not much in the way of crime there. Finding people with money won't be difficult, but enough pennant collectors to keep a store open?

yeah...kinda reminded me a little bit of the old "National Pastime" store in Cooperstown..ever seen that? A lot of museum quality stuff, but not sure much of it ever sold.

Thought I would share one of the elaborate pipes given out to students at a 1902 Sophomore Smoker, for those interested. This isn't mine but belongs to a friend of mine.

Something about the red tassels made me buy it

I LOVE pennants like that (with non-matching tassels). Awesome contrast, and seems like this 3/4 style of pennant had its heyday in the late '40s - early '50s.

Nice pickup Marc!

Much more vibrant than my example, even after dyeing, and I see what you mean about the red tassels. :p

Marc,
I like these pennants a lot. I think they’re under appreciated because with the Yankees, Dodgers, and Giants they were common from the 1930’s up to the 50’s as they were undated. Despite being undated, I still like them. I like the graphics and the colors. I personally collect Yankees so there’s lots of different nuances over the years. Nice pick up.

You should give this one a prominent position around the Christmas tree each December. Would also look great in one of the many Mexican restaurants in our area. :D

Sorry...Just kidding. My wife is Mexican and I'm sensitive to red white and green ever since she hung up red, white and green Christmas lights outside and our neighbors told us it looked like a Mexican restaurant opened in the neighborhood. Now we just do red and green. :cool:

Very nice. This seems to be that mystery NYC area company with the very unique spine material. So hard to find one with no fading.

Thanks, guys. The Giants pennant is in really nice shape. I'm glad to have it.

I also picked up the 49ers pennant on the bottom, from Fballguy. I thought it was the same color (but better condition) as my other one, but I think that maybe it is a different color, which is nice.

El Tri!

There is actually an El Tri restaurant in Marc's town.

Did anyone see the St. Louis Federal League pennant on eBay a few weeks ago? Had opening bid of $3K and BIN for $6K. Went unsold. Offered him a lot less but still a good chunk and he relisted and accepted. And that was the last I heard from him. eBay did resolve this with their guarantee so that’s good, but unfortunately there is some guy out there who literally stole money … unless eBay somehow got it back from him.

Anyone see this?

This one?

Yep that one

To tell you the truth, Greg, I think you dodged a bullet…that Feds pennant has very little of what JR likes to call “eye appeal.” That’s my opinion :p

Eye appeal is the only thing that matters about a pennant. If it doesn't have that, what does it have?

Yeah I hear ya. I mainly collect to display, but I always wanted a Federal League pennant which usually go for a lot more. Way more. Of course they are also much more pleasing aesthetically. So yeah I’m good either way. I’m a little disgusted that it led to me sitting out a Huggins auction for a 1910s Phillies which ended up going much lower than expected.

Picked up this ca. 1962-65 Los Angeles Angels "Chavez Ravine" stadium pennant by Trench, last month. It features the exact same ballpark artwork used for its Los Angeles Dodgers "Dodger Stadium" companion from the same era; with the addition of an angelic mascot.

Awesome pickup Kyle! That one is surprisingly tough, and very cool image, IMHO. It just screams '60s. :)

A great pennant for sure. Love the Angel graphic. Like Mark says it has that cool 1960s style cartoon art (similar to the Twins and Vikings “Grain Belt” pennants.

That Angels pennant is very nice. IMO, the eye appeal on the Angels pennants is generally better than most clubs.

I had this one arrive in the mail yesterday. I only have a couple of football pennants but the price was right (despite a few holes near the tip.

Seems like a slow news day here on the pennant thread so thought I would post the following. I've been speaking to the curator for the Jackie Robinson Museum in New York about loaning them some items from my collection, and decided to loan them the pennant below (I've posted a photo of this pennant before) for display alongside other Jackie Robinson barnstorming items they have. They will probably borrow other items from my collection when they next rotate their displays. I've loaned out Koufax items before to some museums as well as to Dodger Stadium, but this is my first time loaning out anything Jackie. I'm hoping to get to see the museum when I go to NY for a wedding in July.

Rick

Attachment 514654

That's one heck of a beautiful pennant. Please post pictures of the museum, if you can, when you visit.

Looking for Baseball All Star Pennants 1960-1974
 

Hi. Looking for Baseball All Star Pennants

Years needed:

1960
1961
1962
1963 with Brooks Robinson name
1964 with Brooks Robinson name
1967 with Brooks Robinson name
1968 with Brooks Robinson name
1969 with Brooks Robinson name
1973 with Brooks Robinson name
1974 with Brooks Robinson name

You’re definitely the guy to go to for museum quality Dodgers stuff!

Will do. I plan on asking for a photo of the display just in case I don't make it there.

Rob, a lot of guys have me beat by a mile, and Gary Cypres' Dodger collection is so large that he has his own museum with thousands of square feet dedicated to the Dodgers. But I do have some unique items, and I get a kick out of seeing them on display somewhere other than my own home.

Rick

Here are two recent pickups.

This is now my third different version of this Santa Clara pennant (they differ in font, material, color). I have seen each version only once in 20+ years, so I'm glad to get it. This one is cloth.

Does anyone know if the W mark is the same company as the one that used the WC mark on other west coast pennants? (West Coast Novelty... I think). Or maybe that really is not a W? (between the Bronco and spine)

The second is an Adflag NY Giants pennant that doesn't usually come with as much color, so I decided to add it to the collection even with the nip at the top of the spine.

SC pennant is beautiful, Marc!!!

Marc, I don't believe your "W" is a mark at all. I believe the artist is trying to illustrate the movement of your bronco, is all.

The "WC" mark we once discussed was a concessionaire's mark for West Coast Novelty, and although the mark differed in appearances from pennant to pennant, in all cases the "W" and "C" were very clear.

Love the SC pennant, Marc! I kinda agree with Kyle on the “W”….and kinda don’t :p

The W must be shock waves from his abs flexing.

The "W" is just lines of motion, like the two white lines directly above, and the three white lines beneath his back left leg. Cool pennant!

Super jazzed about the acquisition from “pennantdynasty” who is an awesome eBay seller. Been looking for this forever. Strangely this seems rarer than the sister Brooklyn pennant. I’ve only seen it once before. There may be a version without the year. Anyway I’m also happy with the condition. Right up on the wall it goes. Interesting how the manager is listed differently.

Great pennant, Greg!

I agree….pennantdynasty is a great seller.

Hey, pennant guys
 

Greg and Marc - both great recent pickups! [emoji91]

Pennantdynasty is great - would love to see his collection and full inventory!

+1 agree great collection and selection

Just saw this on ebay. Canteen Corp.? Maker or concessionaire?

Canteen = concessionaire. And, for the most part, I've only seen their marks on Trench-made pennants. But this one doesn't really scream Trench to me ... so perhaps someone else made it?

I knew we could count on you, Kyle. JR had this listed as “first year Texas Rangers” 1972.

Are we getting closer to new content on your blog? :fingers_crossed:

Not sure I've seen Canteen Corp on a baseball pennant before. Mainly football helmet pennants. Anyone seen others?

If the pennant was truly made ca. 1972 and for the AL Texas Rangers, and by a company like Trench, then I'd expect to see an MLB logo on it indicating that the product was officially licensed; as you'd expect to find on other Trench (or ASCO) pennants made post-1969.

Maybe this was was made in 1971 or earlier, when the Dallas-Ft. Worth-Arlington area was trying to lure an existing franchise their way? That might explain why it wasn't an officially sanctioned pennant by MLB.

It almost resembles more of a 1950s or 60s-era look, doesn't it?

Anyone get that oversized Pirates pennant? (Top one, below, went for about a grand on eBay.) I’m intrigued by these, have written about them before. I’ve seen three different Pirates versions now. Could it be the first pennant “series”?

I was the runner-up. I had a half-ass snipe (just below $1K) simply because I could not be positive it's actually a Pirates Pennant. It could easily (and perhaps more likely) be a Pittsburgh Univerity Pennant...

I like yours, Greg, because it says "Pirates" instead of Pittsburgh. Also, yours appears to be black and gold (not blue and gold). The Pirates never used blue as one of their colors, and were always black and gold. The University of Pittsburgh (Pitt) on the other hand, traditionally has blue and gold colors (just like the eBay pennant).

So why would they make one that says "Pirates" and another that says "Pittsburgh"? There's a similar example from this same series... One says "Cubs" and the other says "Chicago". The "Chicago" version has maroon and white felt, just like Chicago University. All of this makes me doubt whether the eBay example was truly a Pirates Pennant. So in retrospect, I'm kinda glad I was the under-bidder.

.

That Chicago pennant is in a Hunt auction right now. Last year it didn’t sell, was advertised as either U of Chicago or Sox or Cubs. This time around, no mention of possible team, and it’s getting bids.

I still gotta believe it’s a Pirate pennant. But the little bit of doubt does detract. The other Pittsburgh pennant went for $1900 and change in Heritage.

The Tigers leather tiger head pennant is still the Holy Grail ..

Good stuff, Heavy Hitters!

Love those Pirates pennants.

Did anyone see this one from CleanSweep's April auction? I wasn't sure what to think about it. Anybody here pick it up?

https://www.cleansweepauctions.com/i...tem=0000740349


-----------
G@ry G0ldb3rg

Ok, I'm just going to ask because I can't stop myself for thinking it, but have any of these pennants you guys are showing (with the leather) ever shown up in beat to hell condition? They all seem really nice. Almost new. Which seems.... uncomfortable.

I do know that leather stuff can survive well. As an example, the Santa Clara pennant below in looks like new condition. But I also have one that shows some age. I guess I'd expect to see more of these of the baseball pennants.

I don't watch these pennant closely when they come up for sale, so admit that I am no expert.

Though they don't surface often, I've seen plenty of beat-up examples over the years. I usually pass on them because I'm a condition freak. But I have seen (and owned) examples that are moth-eaten, stained, soiled, torn, missing felt, and have holes, slits, etc. I've also seen a few where the embroidered leather has peeled off and either remains loose or has been glued back on to the felt.

You can easily tell the difference between a vintage example and a reproduction when you have them in-hand. And great Santa Clara Pennants, BTW!

Oh man … I wish it was me … and what a bargain!