Can’t imagine what a consignor would say if they were able to give their honest opinion. Instead, there is the hope of being made whole and the fear of retribution if they express otherwise. Snowman experienced a version of that. Good luck to those affected but my fear would be that the AH will turn self interested.

Why?

It's a generally positive thing to exchange ideas and opinions regarding topics such as this.

You can choose to not continue reading the thread.

That's no fun and makes WAY too much sense. He is the type who apparently prefers to complain and then expose himself to the very thing he does not like.

They were not stolen

Had I known about the theft & not having a clue which cards were stolen, I would not have made 1 bid on anything. Therefore, I would not have won a thing. Kind of like Logic 101

Presumably you bid on cards you were hoping to win so I don't understand why you're not happy you actually won them. I am sure the people who bid on cards that were stolen aren't happy they won't be receiving the cards they though they had won.

Sad but true. This will be but a distant memory in the future.

In the end, it is a sad story and I do hope these are recovered.

I doubt we get any additional information on this unless the cards are recovered.

Pretty sure Ryan isn't afraid to share his real thoughts. If Memory Lane wanted to mess with him I think they would regret it. That being said, I don't doubt that all consignors are going to be made whole even if they but ML on blast.

Nothing to be afraid of Ryan is a professional and I believe it's in all party's best interests to keep quiet and let things play out.

We all have our opinions and that's much respected and valued. Nothing is going to change things will move on as usual.

The whole thing stinks.

Adding that Ryan, as well as Jamie (blunder) selling off, the precipice is very close now

That's an inductive leap. People sell for various reasons: personal finances, desire to do something else with the money, moving, etc. You cannot make macro conclusions from micro actions of a few people.

Vintage card prices have been declining (gasp) for a while now, but there are no 'precipices', just a normal correction off of some crazy market highs.

If you want to predict that the sky is falling, you are probably right...eventually. Most leading economists have successfully predicted nine of the last five recessions.

True, buuuuttt more akin to saying that the influx of covid stimulus and speficially PPP loans led to people into buying cards they shouldn't, couldn't or wouldn't otherwise.. when any big players starting out...be fearful. Heck I sold! That tell you something right there ...I kid

I didn't mean it in that way, I simply meant that Ryan is in a position where an auction company wouldn't be able to bully him.

it was in response to the "fear of retribution" line in what I quoted. Maybe I over-stated, but the idea that Ryan would be afraid of any auction company's "retribution" for expressing his opinion is pretty amusing to me. Of course Ryan is an adult and a professional and will conduct himself as such, but not because of the intimidation of some auction company.

Thanks for the question. While I don't feel I owe you or others an explanation of my vague statements, out of respect for the people involved, my respect for NET54 and it's members I'll try.

I don't really like doing business with companies I don't like or trust. I do believe what ML did before and after the facts are not right. Others have a different opinion. That's OK. I actually have stood up against big companies in my life never to do business with them again. I have fired GM (1983-2021-I really wanted that Corvette, :rolleyes:) over a car that blew up after 15K miles (I paid less for that car than I did the 3-baseball cards), Costco and American Express to name just a few.

Currently, I have paid ML over 5K in commissions for goods I do not have. I don't like that I have to go pick up the cards that I'm "hoping" are there. I hope Santa Claus comes down the chimney Dec 25th too. I had 2 choices. Not pay them like a big fat loser and damage my reputation or Pay them and move on. I conduct ALL my business with Integrity, which is why I believe I have this type of $$$ to piss away on baseball cards in the first place. I paid them immediately.

I would not have bid at all on this auction had I known there were still many "unidentified" cards stolen from it so they could continue to run their sham of an auction. I don't really give a sh** the reasons. IMHO, it was not right or just. That's how I live my life. You or others are free to make your own decisions. I've made mine and I will stick to it. I did not appreciate how they handled the cards going into or out of Shitsville. Memory Lane is just that after my pick-up TUESDAY...a BAD MEMORY. I hope that helps? ;)

A little thing one of you put together for me long ago. But I think it's appropriate to post it.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=25382

Doesn't want to be part of the "billion dollar fraud"

It needs a guy with a stick hitting the horse.:D

This is another writeup about the theft:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/cr...a-965bf2018411

The only additional information I see is The collection of 54 missing cards includes rare Cracker Jack cards, along with high-quality Mickey Mantle and Roberto Clemente cards.

Exactly!:D At least you've come around Teddy to it ALL being a billion dollar fraud now:D:D:D:)

I realize their hands are somewhat tied due to an ongoing LE investigation and insurance concerns, but I cannot belive they haven't issued a one page statement to the collecting world "DEAR OUR LOYAL CONSIGNORS, CUSTOMERS, AND OTHER LOYAL SUPPORTERS" and said . . . . well, . . . something. Even if we wish we could say more, but are really honest folks, have always appreciated your loyal patronage, thank you [nine different ways], and we will keep you informed as this plays out. That seems like basic public relations and crisis management 101. Saying nothing is not a smart move to limit reputational harm.

auction stolen
 

I get the jist of this sad tale, but not understanding one part -

OK, these stolen cards. Why were they going to Best West OH ?

I thought they were all in the Mem Lane auction ?

Was the plan to display all cards at show and try and drum up more bids ?

Or last day of bidding coinciding with last day of show for excitement ?

In the real world that is what should be done but this is our hobby. They just have to have some amazing stuff in their next auction and all will be forgotten.

It's pretty standard at big shows to display cards that will be in an upcoming auction to attract bidders.

I agree. Even if they’re not permitted to say much, they can say something.

Almost 4 weeks now since the theft. I don't expect anything now from them, except an email announcing their next auction.

Or to pay them for the items you won and they are in possession of.

On a positive note…. I will say, when I win items of value from Memory Lane, it comes in a very nice ML box, and on my birthday they send a card with a couple pieces of candy. So, they do acknowledge their customers and do the little things right.

Yay!

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Mmmm, candy.

As a along time lurker around here, I love this type of thread

Would anyone have concerns if ML did the exact opposite? Scenario:

Immediately after the theft, ML informs the consignors about the stolen cards and removes those cards from the auctions. Auction runs without the cards.

If that happened, would we still have a 600 comment post on net 55?

Yes as no matter what they done it would have been wrong for a few and news to the rest of us.

I think there are 3 people left reading this but that is an interesting question. I think it was posed early on but I think the usual and customary thing we see is that when a house has an issue with a lot (whatever the reason) while the auction is going on, they pull the lot. For whatever reason the house decided the lot cannot be sold, shipped, etc. I have seen this with larger auctions where 3 or 4 lots are pulled.

54 key lots is a big deal. It would not be a forgone conclusion the remaining lots would have done better because those bidding on the 54 stolen lots may have had zero interest in other lots in the auction. Also you might have lost bidders too because those 54 lots were drawing people into the auction but that in and of itself is not a reason to let the auction go on with the missing lots.

Generally speaking I think we all prefer to be bidding on things we are relying on the house to have and be able to ship. It is why when we get something from an auction where the image and/or the description do not agree with the item once in hand, we are disappointed.

As has been said over and over this was a no win situation for the company once they shipped the cards to nobody in the middle of nowhere.

I think few, if any, people would've had an issue with that.

Nobody would say, "Wait! They should've deceived all their bidders so they could see what people would've been willing to pay, for purposes of filing their insurance claim."

There'd probably be a split, one could credibly argue that removing 54 of the best cards would lose some bidders interest and could be bad for consigners, just as one can credibly argue that smaller consigners may have lost some bids by people budgeting for the bigger cards that were not actually for sale.

When people argue from the outcome that is most beneficial to them instead of what makes sense or is honest, there will always be a split because somebody doesn't do as well in each scenario.

The difference, of course, is that the other path is actually honest and the path taken of hosting a fraudulent auction (still waiting for the lawsuit) is blatantly dishonest. I have learned from this board that dishonesty that is beneficial to certain people is a good thing though and the truth should not ever intrude and the common sense 'being honest is the right path' is a silly absurdity and I am stupid for wondering how Memory Lane acquired this bizarrely unique insurance plan that requires hosting of said fraudulent auction.

There'd be a groundswell of support for the AH and the consignors who were victims of a crime, and the thread would have died about 100-odd expressions of support into it. Instead, we have a polarizing, endless debate essentially over whether two wrongs make a right.

Of course, that would be on "net 55". On Net 54 it would pretty much turn into a dumpster fire regardless.

Please, don't let this thread die, it deserves life!

That’s exactly what they should have done, Bottom Line…you nailed it.

Thank you, I'm sure their legal team may or may not agree.

Which is truly the bottom line...for them.

Regardless of the opinions of the Supreme Court of message boards.

Do you not offer your opinion on many topics throughout this forum? I hope it was at the advice of counsel or LE because on its face it seems like such a bad move. I believe the head of the AH is permanently enjoined from make false misrepresentations in connection with the sale of goods and services so there would have to be cover on that front.

As soon as ya'll run a major auction company, you can do whatever it is you like. It's so easy.
.

Well an education probably would have taught you there is fact vs opinion. "The bottom line" may or may not be related to a million dollar loss to an auction house or the upsetting the Supreme Court. You decide, but I couldn't sustain a loss like that.

Education obviously means little most of the time. I personally love the few posters that like to post their opinion like it is a fact and then argue it is a fact like their life depends on it. It is quit entertaining if you can get past how silly it is.

Certainly makes a case to NOT use the ignore feature

Methinks they should've used a Motel 6. They would have at least left the lights on....

What specific claim to fact by the people who are not fans of the fraudulent auction is even being objected to?

As a consignor, even if I didn't have one of the 54 stolen lots, I'd be pissed. It would leave a massive negative impression on the entire auction. I've said it before I think pulling that many key lots actually HURTS the remaining lots.

Correct integrity goes a long way :-)

Either continue the auction or end the whole thing. Just pulling the stolen lots would have been a terrible idea.

I agree.

I honestly don't know what I would've done in a similar situation. It's just not as black and white as people want it to be.

It does, but I dont have the photoshop skills.
I mentioned we needed a thing of a dead horse jumping a shark and suprisingly got exactly that.

I'm quite happy with it as-is. :D

A few observations
- Memory Lane (possibly other AH's) needs to take into consideration some points good and bad that have been made in these posts
- ML I believe was in a Catch 22 as evidenced by some that agree with what they did and some that are calling the auction fraudulent
- I tend to think if I was in the position ML was in I would at the very least notify the bidders of the stolen items halted bidding and/or pulled the items but I'm not and I don't know everything the ML higher ups know so this is just an observation from the outside
- Notification and pulling the cards would have at least allow bidders to go after some other items with their available funds and when the cards are located then they can be put up for auction when in ML hands
- While I don't agree that they kept the auction going for the stolen items without any notification to the bidders I plan to place bids with them in the future if they have items I am interested in
- I was a bidder and winner in this last auction and I don't feel like ML committed fraud on me but my items were not some of the stolen property at least that I know of...

Glad we have this forum where we can agree, disagree and discuss collecting baseball cards!

Good news is



MEMORY LANE IS ACCEPTING SUMMER CONSIGNMENTS!!

Anyone know their shipping address for Fed ex??

Wha (sic) too soon?

Just drop your collection off at the local BW and they will arrange pick up in 3 days.

I don't want to be talking out of school, but my friend is a Realtor in Texas and she just got a new client...who coincidentally enough is a chambermaid at a certain Best Western Plus hotel. Her current residence is the top picture, but just made an all cash offer on the bottom property. Hmmm...

Attachment 621512

So, deceive bidders to benefit the consigners?

Suppose a bidder on a stolen lot called with some questions about it. Like, will you ship it out expedited so as to be presented as a birthday gift? Or, will you ship it UPS instead of Fedex, because my local Fedex driver is unreliable?

If you chose to continue the auction with the stolen lots, and you were on the phone with a bidder on some of those lots, would you basically lie directly to them, if it was necessary to continue the deceit? And I don't mean YOU, I mean the AH in this hypothetical.

One thing to consider that I hadn't really thought about, and I haven't read every post so maybe it's been discussed, is this: was it kosher for ML not to tell consignors for days that their cards had been stolen and were missing? To get Scott's take, would you feel comfortable not telling consignors, on the theory that you'd make them whole in the end anyhow?

It seems like the side that is ok with running the fake auction has in mind establishing value from the results. If that was the purpose you can’t let the situation be known to consignors or anyone else or those results would be called even more into question. Pulling the items instead of running a fake auction would have allowed immediate communication with consignors.

Yes absolutely. If you continue the auction, you have to keep it from them. So is that OK?

I will say if like ML and my legal council, Insurance company, and the PoPo all told me to run the auction. I would run the auction. To me it really is that simple. For anyone who missed it several hundred posts ago one of the few people that actually know what they are talking about posted that was what happened.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive!

This means nothing. ML's legal team has one job: Do what's in their clients' best interest. Nobody here is saying ML didn't do what was in their best interest.

Question is, was it in the best interest of bidders and consigners? Was it ethical or right?

Even without their legal team the insurance company and the POLICE said to run the auction. Would you seriously not do what they recommended?:confused:

No one said they know this is what happened and it seems rather doubtful to many.

The Energizer Bunny.....it keeps going....and going....and going....

Actually it was said that is what happened. It doesn't fit your opinion so you probably ignored it.

Point me to it, please.

Sometimes it needs a little prod but yes it does.:D

Start at post one. It is much less reading than going back from the here.:D

This is one of those threads (and there are not too many) that you just gotta say "WTF". Attachment 621520Attachment 621520Attachment 621520

I get it, and obviously I'm talking in hypotheticals as well, when not talking completely out of my ass.

I just can't imagine ML doing this without advice of counsel and possibly law enforcement. So I would have to turn to them in the scenario you outlined.

My fiduciary duty is to my consignor, that does NOT allow me to operate in bad faith with my buyers using that duty as a cover. With that in mind that is why I feel very strongly that this decision wasn't made lightly, or even independently of advice from counsel or an outright request form law enforcement.

Sorry to keep copping out, but I would do what my attorney and law enforcement told me.

What would I LIKE to do? Tell the consignors immediately, give everyone the option to pull their items (or remaining items as the case may be) and if too many consignors wanted out because of the situation, cancel the auction, tell everyone what happened and rely on insurance to make my affected consignors whole and return the items if consignors didn't want to reschedule them. I simply don't know if that was a possibility.

ad nauseam

With literally MILLIONS at stake you should have your head examined if you think they didn't ask insurance or legal what they should do.

Hence why the opinions of those making assumptions, who could not walk by, let alone purchase, millions of dollars in cards, don't matter.

The insurance angle was thrown out without being stated to be true but a possibility, then the side that wants to justify the fake auction latched onto it. It is obviously not the case. No one can produce a single example of an insurance plan, policy, demand, decision or communique telling a claimant they must host a fake auction to assign value in all of human history for a reason - this is not how it works. This angle is pretty obviously false.

I would be a little surprised if their attorneys would have directly advised a course of action that seems to violate California consumer law, but it's possible. 'Maybe the police asked them to' is probably the best of these three possible justifications as none of us disgusting filthy poors who should not have any right to post an opinion have access to that investigation, so I don't know why they latched onto this clear falsehood so hard when there were better avenues to take.

Any auction house that embraces the principle of hosting fake fraudulent auctions to deceive bidders should lose bidders, but of course they won't. Stuff dictates ethics and the complete lack thereof. Even if that means covering up a theft of consigners property from consigners, and hosting a fraudulent auction lying to all of their bidders. If someone was handling my property, and it was stolen, don't we think I have a right to know that? Well, we would in any other case but not this one because we have priorities here $$$$$$$$$$$. Any of us bothered by this have probably already made the decision to not do business with Memory Lane considering Cohen's conviction for fraud and resulting prison term (https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news...ing-activities).

I think if consignors were notified ahead of time, it would have been a bigger issue. I’m curious as to the bidding patterns of the stolen items. Was a house account set up to bid and win back. From all my reading only a few people knew about the heist before the auction closed. Plus, how’s the investigation going on this, as it’s been a month now.

Who knew about it before the closing and where did you read that?

A 'bigger issue' in the sense that it might hurt the money train for some people?

I am hard pressed to think of any example where lying to everyone and cover ups are the right path to take. I cannot think of a single one.

But then again, I do not know if I am rich enough to have an opinion or not, so this approach of 'hey maybe honesty is good' may need to be redacted.

How did you find out about that artricle in the above link?

Some ML employees and didn’t someone have to alert the police a 2 million dollar box is missing?