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You have your own narrative and you dont factor in anything. I understand you are making your argument and have a client in this issue. Nobody knows everything. I never said this is a non-issue, i always said theres there is an issue. I just said there are issues where lawsuits are involved and issues where lawsuits are not involved. To me, i think thats a big difference. I would think in the HOF of the biggest scams in the world where people are wronged and lost tons of money and were all unhappy a lawsuit would be filed whether now or 3 years from now. People are saying that in time it will happen, I am just saying theres a good chance there wont if everyone is satisfied to a degree/dont care that nobody will file lawsuit. I can spare you your next post. Jake- people in grade school know more than you. I am great, look at how i bully and insult. |
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Sometimes it makes sense to listen to people who know more than you on an issue, who have actual experience on an issue, who are involved in the issue. Again, and I'll type this slowly for you: litigation does not need to be brought in order for victims to be made whole. The number of lawsuits brought is not directly related to the harm perceived or suffered. Yes, this is grade school common sense of which non-lawyers on the board seem to understand well. The fact that I have a client involved would suggest that I would be looking to downplay what occurred here. I am not. For an obvious reason. Again, and s l o w l y: what occurred here rocks the foundation of the hobby. Lawsuits or no lawsuits will not change that. |
To paraphrase Barbie. Lawyering is hard.
All this civil suit discussion has got me wondering if I need to file a civil suit against the grocery store for the bag of bad apples they sold me. Do I need a retainer? And if so, how much with that run? |
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The vault, getting ready to ingest another victim.
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The Vault is guarded by: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nY9uBSw6uoQ/maxresdefault.jpg |
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Up the ladder to the roof, as the Supremes song goes.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1642 |
THERE'S THE PROOF...paying huge $$$$$ for 9's or 10's is just plain stupid!!!!! Because on any given day they could be 8's!!
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I don't know how to copy/paste a single post like Peter did...
But if you go over to that same thread in Blowout, you'll see another '56 Topps card that made the same jumps from PSA 8 to 9 to 10. The 1956 Red Schoendienst was proven trimmed, whereas they detected no difference in the Neal. So which is which is worse? The random numerical grades assigned for the same exact Neal card (which jumped from $66 to $3,894). Or the obviously trimmed Schoendienst (which jumped from $109 to $1,780). Is there really a minute chance that the grader(s) made these highly coincidental mistakes legitimately and in honest fashion? Or are these further examples of PSA turning a blind eye for a preferred submitter? Neither scenario bodes well for them. |
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I think you are Peter Chao (see how it looks when you say that). You said what occurred rocked the foundation of the hobby. Do you mean the buyer or the sellers or both? Are prices at auctions getting rocked now versus before. Less submissions to PSA? No lines to get cards graded? The stock price for collector universe has gotten rocked? We already know no lawsuits. Please advise as to how the foundation has been rocked. Ill say it slowly 'R o c k ed' |
Poor Peter Chao...
Looks like his infamous legacy will never end here. Hope he found a friendlier and more accepting place to hang out. :rolleyes: |
Peter has not done much with his linked in profile -- but if you are interested in chatting with him: And yes, this is HIS profile
https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-chao-71a84863/ Regards Rich |
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Nor, for that matter, will his question why Joe Jackson didn't get hurt if he played without shoes. |
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Surprised you would resort to a 'your mother' joke. Guess thats why you are so expensive. Such original insults. I am not sure what yo mean about aggressively discussing lawsuits against PSA I have been discussing the opposite. Have I not stated a number of times that I guess everyone is satisfied/refunded that NO lawsuits have been filed. It seems you are the one that is stating that the hobby has been rocked and just because there are no lawsuits its a HUGE issue and worthy of litigation or other major fix. I also asked the questions about whether past sales at auctions shows how bad the hobby has been rocked as you stated which you didnt answer. I dont think recent auction sales reflect that. Thats a position that would be contra to discussing lawsuits. It sounds like from what you are saying that you are encouraging aggressively discussing lawsuits. (see how that sounds) You just keep making up your own narrative no matter what i state and be a bully. Also its interesting you yourself were critical of PWCC (one would think you were looking for clients) and now you represent them Peter C lives! |
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These issues are very obvious to everyone on the board but you. Again, everyone is not satisfied or happy just because no lawsuits are filed. If everyone is satisfied and happy, why is there a present criminal investigation occurring? No harm, no foul, right? Why is there a statute of limitations on lawsuits? Why not just make the limitation period 3 months? Because that's all anyone needs to determine if they are satisfied and happy on a legal dispute, right? The ramifications of the card alteration scandal will not be fully appreciated for a while as again everyone knows this but you. When enough 'before' pictures are outed and start causing most high grade cards to no longer be able to be sold, do you think that is a non-issue? And they can't be cracked out and resubmitted because the cards will just be outed again. If PSA is required to start replacing numerically cards from the registry and turning them into As, do you think this doesn't affect the hobby? Do you think this is over just because one dullard says so? And I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by calling you an idiot. |
In my opinion the majority of altered cards are never going to be outed because they were purchased raw. Whether enough are going to be outed anyhow that destroy confidence in TPG high grade slabs altogether, we'll see.
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Was Mastro still operating biz as usual while under investigation, and if so, how long did that go on until Mastro closed up?
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Anyone who is thinking about investing in high grade PSA cards needs to look at Peter's post (#274). From $60 to $4,000. should make people question what is going on.
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$60,000 value gain on an altered PSA 8 Bobby Hull rookie just surfaced on Blowout.
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A mere 60K gain. |
Wow!!!
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I know longer buy they are this bad at detecting alterations.... |
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right so now you saying the statute of limitations didnt expire so its still early for lawsuits. What about 3 months before the statute of limitations or a year. I dont know about you but most lawyers dont wait until right before the statute of limitations to file anything as there is added risk such blowing an issue and thus blowing the statute or class action occurs earlier and there is no opt out along with hundreds of other problems in waiting to the last minute etc The fact you are mentioning statute of limitations being an issue as to why no lawsuits have been filed does prove that you do think lawsuits would be filed since this current scandal is a huge issue but only because enough time has not passed no lawsuits have been filed. If lawsuits or not didnt mean anything why bother to bring up the statute of limitations. So its not absurd I am bringing up the fact that no lawsuits have been filed. 2 years from now, if still no lawsuits are filed, would you then agree that its far from rocking the hobby in that it would appear most people are happy/refunded with the outcome.. Its ok you said i am an idiot....you spent time to write that and there is much supply and demand for your services so your time in so expensive that you still took what little free time you have to call me names and make a your mama joke. i am honored. Peter C lives.. |
Holy effing sh*t!
Somebody trimmed AND recolored an $18,000 USD card? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
You have to have a REALLY large set of balls to do that - larger than Tony Montana's. |
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And if you don't mind me calling you an idiot, then I will again. You're an idiot. And yeah, I always have time for pointing this out, although, again, that no one from here hires a crack civil litigator like yourself surely makes clear I'm not alone in my opinion. |
Not up to the standards of the old Point Counterpoint on 60 Minutes.
More like the parody on SNL, with Dan Aykroyd famously saying to Jane Curtin, Jane, you ignorant slut!! |
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Tough to have a cogent argument with someone whose only point is that nearly everyone in the hobby is actually thrilled that PSA is putting thousands of trimmed cards into holders simply because no single victim has individually sued a public company for the price of their worthless card. That's his only point. Peter, let me know how many people who lost between $500 and $10,000 due to PSA incompetence would be willing to pay a lawyer to sue PSA, knowing they can't join up in a class? |
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It's also a weird situation because in this market, a lot of people could just mitigate their damage by selling off the cards they have doubts about, or even the ones that have been specifically outed. Easier than paying a lawyer to sue for you in Orange County.
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This is the worst/Most Obviously Re Colored Card Exposed as of yet.....was this graded at one of those invitationals where the high volume submitters get to sit and discuss with graders??
Did they even look at his jersey or chin of this butchered Hull Rookie I’m not buying PSA is this bad at grading cards....... Such a Shame |
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I guess at this Point What Difference Does it Make?
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What a disgrace. I'm not familiar with 1958 Topps Hockey cards, but I do know that many of the later '60's Topps Baseball cards had a dot matrix print pattern that would make it easy to detect recoloring under magnification. Putting $18,000 at risk to modify a card reveals a lot about PSA's gross lack of competence and the card doctor's brazen confidence (likely based on years of experience and lucrative returns on investment) to attempt to get a grade bump like this. |
Agree...
Gross incompetence by PSA. A simple magnifying glass would reveal the very significant recoloring of that card. Within the thread on BO, they blew up that section, and it was beyond obvious that red ink was added to the jersey. Major tampering, and a true disgrace. Hope the buyer gets word of this. |
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"So I think this whole trimming issue that we spent a lot of time talking about today is really something that we don't consider material to our business." Joseph J. Orlando https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edite...083408142.html |
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Who knows? It may not matter to the buyer. Maybe the buyer is another card doctor hoping to alter it to a 9 or 10. |
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I'm shocked collectors still think these trimmers were submitting altered cards to PSA without knowing the outcome. Please, our collecting community cannot be that dumb. 99% certainty these trimmers knew exactly the grade they were going to get, and PSA is knee deep in this crap.
If a trimmer is spending thousands of dollars to duplicate a factory cut to 1/64 of an inch, and years perfecting his skills, he's going to have an inside track to getting that bump. Until Joe Orlando is quoted under penalty of perjury during a deposition, I'll assume anything coming from his mouth is meant for the collectors club kool-aid drinkers. |
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On the other hand you bring up a great point: this is just another example of lame rhetoric by Orlando used to smooth over, deflect and dismiss just another PSA scandal and naturally his response doesn't surprise me in the least. He gave me the scorched earth treatment when I publicly exposed examples of doctored PSA cards ten years ago, by banning me, deleting registry sets, etc and never publicly addressed the issue. I wasn't alone; there were other disgruntled collectors who endured the same fate. One has to wonder what kind of retribution he imposed on the stock analysts who brought up the questions regarding trimmed cards in the recent quarterly results meeting? I'm reminded when Ken Lay the CEO of Enron assured employees and stockholders all is well with Enron and promoted a bright future and cajoled the said parties to buy even more Enron stock when in fact the company was quietly floundering into a state of disaster. Lay was later convicted of multiple crimes including making false statements. Whether that applies to this situation, I'll leave that to the legal experts. |
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I remember when PSA graded the first O-Pee-Chee Wayne Gretzky RC a 10 GEM MINT. Being Canadian, I have seen a trillion of these cards before and I just felt that it wasn't a perfect-looking card. I remember pointing out an error, or two, and then I got the boot. :eek: |
Yes, I did have a panther avatar in the early days. I didn't have Photoshop software, so the customized cards phenomenon doesn't stand out for me. It was a great time in the early days - buying raw cards at shows and selected shops and getting them graded and seeing their value jump significantly if they got a high grade. Then by 2003 or so, the nice cards dried up and things started to surface that PSA wasn't all that it was cracked up to be.
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Great Job BODA
This whitey ford 61 AS is a disgrace..... https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...315750&page=75 PSA’s OPINION IS WORTHLESS |
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https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...ard-collection |
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Here comes my inner Chuck.....
PSA has completely wrongfully put tens of thousands, it not hundreds of thousands of cards in holders that are altered.... facilitating the public to be potentially defrauded over and over again.....their Number 1 In the industry egotistical mentality is all Bull To The S Garbage Wake Up People !!!!! |
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My view is enough time has passed that people seem to be happy with the outcome or great lawyers like you write one terrific letter so no lawsuit is needed. I think we can all name instances in which a lawsuit did more than a letter . I dont think filing a lawsuit now would be immediate as well. How long as it been? It appears 'victims' are happy how things are proceeding where they are happy or not worth filing a lawsuit at this point. There are problems in the world in which lawsuits are filed and there problems where none are, thus far this falls in the later category |
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Insurance companies are public companies and they get sued, not sure why you mention PSA is a public company like thats a deterrent, they probably have insurance as well. I guess nobody sues public companies. |
Please let this end.
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Why don't you two just fight it out on the streets of NY, and afterwards, when both of you are exhausted, then just go for a beer?
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