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-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269400)

Scott L. 05-31-2019 11:50 AM
That "line" is so noticeable once you see. I imagine there might be a line out the door of folks looking to return cards and Brent & Betsty are probably on tilt with no one to blame but themselves.

Republicaninmass 05-31-2019 12:09 PM
You can fool some of the people some of the time..

Fuddjcal 05-31-2019 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 1882675)
Outside of Jeff L's post, all of the outrage on the last 3 pages is directed at Moser and PWCC (unless someone posts differently while I'm writing this). Many of the posts even suggest that PSA and/or Collectors Universe should expand their operations to become even more powerful than they already are. The power they already wield is the bulk of the problem here... It's what is motivating the "doctors" to alter/submit to PSA, and their Registry is what's driving the insane prices paid for these altered cards. They are making the Card Doctors rich.

Increasing PSA's presence will only add to the problem. I understand that most people here have a vested interest in PSA, with tens of thousands of dollars tied up in their holders. But check out the 2 latest reveals on BO...

The '51 Bowman Mantle, from which Moser profited tremendously, and the '52 Mays, in which he actually lost money (a chemical burn resulted from his "cleaning" process). The common denominator in all of this is PSA's failure to detect anything. So aside from the "vested interests", why is such blind faith put in PSA to fix it?

It's like asking the Mayor of Flint, MI to fix their water crisis. :mad:
F PSA, F Brent Mastro and F Gary Hoser. They are all criminals, IMHO.

Fuddjcal 05-31-2019 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 1882682)
Correct. There are more card doctors than you can count. Moser is one... many more have been exposed on BO.

The common denominator is PSA authorization.
AND BRENT MASTRO who has allowed it for 10 YEARS

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1883048)
AND BRENT MASTRO who has allowed it for 10 YEARS
Or longer.

perezfan 05-31-2019 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883053)
Or longer.
True and true... both are despicable.

But look at the title of this thread... Many other trimmers and sellers have been exposed (beyond PWCC and Moser).

While PWCC/Moser are by far the most visible and rampant, the term "common denominator" applies to the fraud in total. And as it relates to the exposed altered vintage cards, it is PSA that is the common thread. And it is the PSA Slab that allows these cards to be legitimized and sold at ANY other venue in the future.

It's much like the virus in the movie, Outbreak. Until they found the infectious monkey, the virus continued to spread. For the virus to finally be contained, they had to contain and destroy the monkey. As these tainted vintage examples continue to be exposed in mass, PSA's "monkey business" is becoming more and more apparent.

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 01:55 PM
I'm pretty certain I discussed Gary with Brent no later than 2007 (before I moved to my current home in early 2008, because I know it was from my old home), and it could have been before that.

ullmandds 05-31-2019 02:00 PM
I love it! I wanta tshirt that says “the Monkey must be contained” with a picture of a monkey In a psa T-shirt!

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1883069)
I love it! I wanta tshirt that says “the Monkey must be contained” with a picture of a monkey In a psa T-shirt!
Not a PWCC t shirt?

ullmandds 05-31-2019 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883071)
Not a PWCC t shirt?
Include all the monkeys!

bnorth 05-31-2019 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1883080)
Include all the monkeys!
Pete, they don't make shirts big enough, not even if you used fine print.:D

perezfan 05-31-2019 02:24 PM
Wow... great idea! That would be a cool shirt to wear at The National.

We previously did Net54 Pins... T-shirts would be even better. I'd buy one in a heartbeat!

bobbyw8469 05-31-2019 03:13 PM
The detective actually missed the bottom left corner that has been built up. I'm blown away that PSA misses all this restoration. This goes beyond just removing wax stains and crud. This is trimming, color restoration and corner buildup! I am totally dumbfounded. Is this Gary Moser guy a millionaire yet?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2383

joshuanip 05-31-2019 03:16 PM
Not relevant to post.

Arazi4442 05-31-2019 03:37 PM
Thoughts on this "asset"?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Steph-Curry...IAAOSw91Jc8Kxi

Seems like a trim would be tough to detect!

:D

joshuanip 05-31-2019 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arazi4442 (Post 1883109)
Thoughts on this "asset"?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Steph-Curry...IAAOSw91Jc8Kxi

Seems like a trim would be tough to detect!

:D
Its ok, he has a 30 day return policy. If you dont like it you can return it (but he may ban you).

CMIZ5290 05-31-2019 04:20 PM
The hits keep on coming with this guy, but unfortunately, he is going to win out and keep laughing all the way to the bank....

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 (Post 1883118)
The hits keep on coming with this guy, but unfortunately, he is going to win out and keep laughing all the way to the bank....
Who, Brent? Gary?

ullmandds 05-31-2019 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuanip (Post 1883098)
Its only a 200M market cap, but explain why CLCT is near 52 week highs in this market dump..... Either the news hasn't disseminated or this will pass.
i think the stock is seen as a good stock when the markets bad...people may gravitate towards collectibles as investments...like whats happening right now...so the stock is high...because most stockpickers/investors don't know whats happening with psa right now...it hasn't made any major news outlets...might be a good one to short!!!

vintagetoppsguy 05-31-2019 04:24 PM
The guys at BO have done an amazing job in their detective work. The before and after pics are irrefutable evidence. Good thing previous auction sales and scans are recorded.

But I wonder how many doctored cards are out there residing in PSA slabs that will never be known? Cards where there are no before scans available? Cards that Moser purchased at a shop, show or other private sale for doctoring? I guess we'll truly never know.

joshuanip 05-31-2019 04:25 PM
Not relevant to post.

CMIZ5290 05-31-2019 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883119)
Who, Brent? Gary?
Brent..

ullmandds 05-31-2019 04:47 PM
2 Attachment(s)
i'm no graphic designer...BUT!!!!!

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1883121)
The guys at BO have done an amazing job in their detective work. The before and after pics are irrefutable evidence. Good thing previous auction sales and scans are recorded.

But I wonder how many doctored cards are out there residing in PSA slabs that will never be known? Cards where there are no before scans available? Cards that Moser purchased at a shop, show or other private sale for doctoring? I guess we'll truly never know.
As I have posted this goes WELL beyond this single individual. There are many card doctors.

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 (Post 1883127)
Brent..
I think you are wrong. He will not skate.

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1883120)
i think the stock is seen as a good stock when the markets bad...people may gravitate towards collectibles as investments...like whats happening right now...so the stock is high...because most stockpickers/investors don't know whats happening with psa right now...it hasn't made any major news outlets...might be a good one to short!!!
Dave Peck gave some very good insight into the perils of shorting a stock like this not long ago.

Tabe 05-31-2019 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug.goodman (Post 1882934)
THEN the greed took over?

Hahahahahahaha, I'm rolling on the floor laughing over here (and my hotel has hardwood floors, so it's a bit uncomfortable).

It was kind of early in the process when the greed took over...

Allow me to, once again, point out the very FIRST card that the biggest seller of opinions ever gave an opinion on (although it was pointed last time I mentioned it that they were probably giving that opinion for no charge)...

Ladies and gentleman, straight from being hand cut from a sheet, the first paid opinion that mattered, #00000001, I present to you the world's most valuable card, the authentic, oops, sorry, I mean 8 on a 10 scale, Gretzky Wagner...
And I would remind people that one of the most famous cards in our hobby - the 1933 Goudey Lajoie - was basically a scam pulled on collectors.

joshuanip 05-31-2019 05:26 PM
Not relevant to post.

bnorth 05-31-2019 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuanip (Post 1883142)
Not relevant to post.
That's OK I do it all the time. I figure nobody cares or I am on everyone's ignore list.:eek:

drcy 05-31-2019 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1883018)
Thanks! You don't have to explain how the tools work (I probably wouldn't understand anyway :D), but how long would it take to use these tools to examine a card? Just wanting to know how much extra time would be involved in the grading process?
There are handheld "point and shoot" spectrometers, including one pictured in the below article. Blacklights are a form of spectroscopy, but there are highly advanced versions (using ir, gamma rays and x-rays) that include handheld devices.


SPECTROSCOPY IN ART AND ARTIFACTS AUTHENTICATION

vintagetoppsguy 05-31-2019 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883136)
As I have posted this goes WELL beyond this single individual. There are many card doctors.
Understood. My statement wasn't really about the doctors, but about the doctored cards. They're easy to verify because there are before and after photos. I was just pondering how many exist that we'll never know about because the cards were purchased at a shop or show or other private sale, were doctored, but we'll never know about because there were no before photos for comparison.

After PSA cleans house and gets rid of the employees that were involved, dont you think they should offer some kind of service to their customers like a FREE evaluation? For what it's worth I think Sloan is a piece of crap for not addressing this.

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1883152)
Understood. My statement wasn't really about the doctors, but about the doctored cards. They're easy to verify because there are before and after photos. I was just pondering how many exist that we'll never know about because the cards were purchased at a shop or show or other private sale, were doctored, but we'll never know about because there were no before photos for comparison.

After PSA cleans house and gets rid of the employees that were involved, dont you think they should offer some kind of service to their customers like a FREE evaluation? For what it's worth I think Sloan is a piece of crap for not addressing this.
We'll never know more than a fraction of it. The good news I guess is that SO many cards are out there it may still add up to a relatively low percentage, if that's any consolation.

We'll just have to wait and see if they say anything, or if they are forced to by the market.

perezfan 05-31-2019 06:08 PM
The bogus PSA-approved cards just keep coming on BO.... Cobb, Marquard and Mantle now... with no apparent end in sight.

If FBI or Law Enforcement doesn't have enough to intervene with this plethora of indisputable evidence, then there's a huge double-standard. This is feeling way beyond what Mastro, Allen and Rogers did.

PWCC/PSA are to cards as Coach's Corner/Christopher Morales are to autographs. Actually they are worse, as the corrupt money pouring in is far greater.

chalupacollects 05-31-2019 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1882890)
I feel a bit vindicated in my opposition from day one to these stupid stickers.


The stickers carry no credibility at all at this point...

swarmee 05-31-2019 06:41 PM
And because he gave so many to Moser, they've actually become a signpost to find more trimmed and altered cards...

chalupacollects 05-31-2019 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaddy (Post 1882997)
For a computer based vision system with machine learning capability, the detection of alterations to cards, whether trimmed edges, recoloring or other alterations, should be easy to detect.

This is a grad student project to put together the system and to 'teach' it with known examples of altered and unaltered cards. You could also give the system rules for grading the cards. No human operator needed (or desired).


No not a grad school project. Several ex Microsoft engineers have buddied up with some patent lawyers out of California and already have a pattern on the technology... There are several threads here (more comprehensive - has links to the patent) and also on Blowout... not sure how to search them out but someone will see this and oblige...

Just not sure what they are waiting for to launch??? Maybe an angel investor or VC firm??? I'm sure they can get some seed money off this board alone!

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 08:02 PM
Gee whiz.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2402

Peter_Spaeth 05-31-2019 08:03 PM
Yowza.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2401

T206Collector 05-31-2019 08:28 PM
E96 Marquard PSA 4 = PSA 7
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2388

MULLINS5 06-01-2019 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott L. (Post 1883028)
Return a card to PWCC and now your banned.

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...-return#latest
It is not in PWCC's best interest to deal with people who inspect their purchases.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MULLINS5 (Post 1883241)
It is not in PWCC's best interest to deal with people who inspect their purchases.
I wonder how their investment advice thing is going.

bnorth 06-01-2019 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883254)
I wonder how their investment advice thing is going.
Probably pretty good. This is on a few baseball card forums but what percentage of collectors are on forums or even know this is happening or even care.

I have friends from the 90's that are still very active in the hobby and had no idea that the Mastro thing happened.

frankbmd 06-01-2019 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883254)
I wonder how their investment advice thing is going.
I would say it's hanging on by a thread.:eek:

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 08:16 AM
How many times do you think he has advised people to buy cards out of his auctions he knew were altered?

bnorth 06-01-2019 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883263)
How many times do you think he has advised people to buy cards out of his auctions he knew were altered?
I have no idea but if you started counting out loud at 1 it might take some time to get to that number.:D

frankbmd 06-01-2019 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883263)
How many times do you think he has advised people to buy cards out of his auctions he knew were altered?
Just read some of the descriptions of the relisted cards with enhanced grades.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd (Post 1883266)
Just read some of the descriptions of the relisted cards with enhanced grades.
It's one level of disingenuousness to describe them that way; quite another to tell someone one on one to buy them.

Not far back someone here posted about a 52 Musial and as I recall mentioned how he reviewed all his purchases with Brent before bidding, I hope for that guy's sake he didn't get burned.

frankbmd 06-01-2019 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883267)
It's one level of disingenuousness to describe them that way; quite another to tell someone one on one to buy them.
I think we agree to agree.;)

jad22 06-01-2019 08:35 AM
Was this one of the service the "Vault" provided? You could send your PSA 6 card and it would leave as a PSA 7 when it is resold. Select the Dr. Moser option when it is shipped there.

Maybe PSA should hire him as a consultant. He is certainly operating a much higher level than they are able to detect.

swarmee 06-01-2019 08:39 AM
If he came clean and flipped on Brent/PWCC/PSA co-conspirators, if any, it's quite possible. "Catch me if you can...." situation.

vintagetoppsguy 06-01-2019 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jad22 (Post 1883276)
Maybe PSA should hire him as a consultant. He is certainly operating a much higher level than they are able to detect.
He's probably making more money than all PSA employees combined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1883280)
If he came clean and flipped on Brent/PWCC/PSA co-conspirators, if any, it's quite possible. "Catch me if you can...." situation.
If Brent really thought he was in any kind of trouble at all, don't you think he would flip on Gary first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1883155)
It's funny that getting arrested and kicked out of the National is not enough to get Tony to stop selling crap autos.
Quoted you from another thread, but if a small hand slap is all these guys like Tony Podsada are getting, what's the real impact of getting caught? I guarantee things are still business as usual with Gary without a care of being caught.

This whole situation is like a snake. How do you kill a snake? You don't chop off its tail, you chop off the head. PWCC isn't the head. Gary or any other doctor isn't the head. PSA is the head. PSA is the key to making this work. As I've stated before, if PSA does their job correctly, none of these get graded and the card doctors are out of business.

pokerplyr80 06-01-2019 09:00 AM
Someone should examine these altered cards to determine if the alteration left anything behind that is detectable. If it is, we as a hobby should force PSA to answer why they aren't using this detection method.

A measurement of the trimmed cards should suffice. If cards that don't measure have been graded, we also deserve an answer as to how that is happening.

I have no idea what percentage of the hobby is on blowout and here, but if everyone agreed not to submit until we get some answers it may force the issue.

I find it ironic how worked up some are in this thread and yet some of those commenting are putting together a PSA group submission on the main page of the site.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1883289)
Someone should examine these altered cards to determine if the alteration left anything behind that is detectable. If it is, we as a hobby should force PSA to answer why they aren't using this detection method.

A measurement of the trimmed cards should suffice. If cards that don't measure have been graded, we also deserve an answer as to how that is happening.

I have no idea what percentage of the hobby is on blowout and here, but if everyone agreed not to submit until we get some answers it may force the issue.

I find it ironic how worked up some are in this thread and yet some of those commenting are putting together a PSA group submission on the main page of the site.
As I posted size is not always indicative, but yeah some of those cards posted on Blowout really do look short, especially some of the Look N' Sees.

ullmandds 06-01-2019 09:06 AM
I find it ironic how worked up some are in this thread and yet some of those commenting are putting together a PSA group submission on the main page of the site.[/QUOTE]

Right!!!! Wtf??? You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink !

pokerplyr80 06-01-2019 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883292)
As I posted size is not always indicative, but yeah some of those cards posted on Blowout really do look short, especially some of the Look N' Sees.
I do realize there are measurement irregularities of vintage cards from the factory. But it wouldn't hurt to measure the vintage cards. And for the modern cards it should be pretty clear. If cards were graded that didnt measure correctly an investigation should be started.

calvindog 06-01-2019 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1883289)
Someone should examine these altered cards to determine if the alteration left anything behind that is detectable. If it is, we as a hobby should force PSA to answer why they aren't using this detection method.
Working eyeballs.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1883298)
I do realize there are measurement irregularities of vintage cards from the factory. But it wouldn't hurt to measure the vintage cards. And for the modern cards it should be pretty clear. If cards were graded that didnt measure correctly an investigation should be started.
I have personally seen numerous examples of cards in slabs that were noticeably short and not, IMO, "natural" shorts. There is no doubt IMO that they miss obvious trimming sometimes.

vintagebaseballcardguy 06-01-2019 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1883256)
Probably pretty good. This is on a few baseball card forums but what percentage of collectors are on forums or even know this is happening or even care.



I have friends from the 90's that are still very active in the hobby and had no idea that the Mastro thing happened.
^^^This^^^ I have a couple of friends who have absolutely zero knowledge of Net54, Blowout, Mastro, etc. When I see them and we discuss cards, I have brought all of this up. They look at me like I am exaggerating or speaking a foreign language. I am afraid most collectors are just like them...I was the same way before I found Net54 a few years ago...just quietly collecting cards and enjoying their collections without a care in the world.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Paul S 06-01-2019 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883254)
I wonder how their investment advice thing is going.
Canopy Growth Corp. Out of U.S. juristdiction;)

Bram99 06-01-2019 10:09 AM
If everyone agreed to not submit until...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1883289)
S

I have no idea what percentage of the hobby is on blowout and here, but if everyone agreed not to submit until we get some answers it may force the issue.
If everyone agreed not to submit PSA could get caught up and back within their promise dates...

Bram99 06-01-2019 10:14 AM
Me too
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy (Post 1883313)
^^^This^^^ I have a couple of friends who have absolutely zero knowledge of Net54, Blowout, Mastro, etc. When I see them and we discuss cards, I have brought all of this up. They look at me like I am exaggerating or speaking a foreign language. I am afraid most collectors are just like them...I was the same way before I found Net54 a few years ago...just quietly collecting cards and enjoying their collections without a care in the world.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
This story isn't a "Me Too" story like the ones in the news. But I agree with the poster above. I just spoke to two friends who are frequent and active buyers of 1940's and 1950's PSA cards for their several registry sets. While they are both extremely active in buying, neither had any idea this new scandal was going on, nor had they heard about the autograph scandal of a few weeks/months ago.

Tony

Bram99 06-01-2019 10:19 AM
off topic but...
 
What do you think of the picture in this listing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1949-BOWMAN...8AAOSw7Ppc1csS

frankrizzo29 06-01-2019 10:41 AM
Has anyone looked at the new round of T206s that PWCC listed on ebay? It appears that several of them have cert numbers that are very close to each other. My guess is that these cards are also doctored. Is PWCC really being this brazen to still sell doctored cards while they are being caught red handed?

Bram99 06-01-2019 10:55 AM
Brazen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankrizzo29 (Post 1883342)
Has anyone looked at the new round of T206s that PWCC listed on ebay? It appears that several of them have cert numbers that are very close to each other. My guess is that these cards are also doctored. Is PWCC really being this brazen to still sell doctored cards while they are being caught red handed?
Did you not watch Brent's one-hour + discussion on conservation?

swarmee 06-01-2019 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram99 (Post 1883333)
While they are both extremely active in buying, neither had any idea this new scandal was going on, nor had they heard about the autograph scandal of a few weeks/months ago.
Nothing that a front page article in the SMR or Forbes wouldn't help fix.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1883346)
Nothing that a front page article in the SMR or Forbes wouldn't help fix.
Forbes lol yeah 100 times more likely another puff piece.

Fuddjcal 06-01-2019 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 1883158)
The bogus PSA-approved cards just keep coming on BO.... Cobb, Marquard and Mantle now... with no apparent end in sight.

If FBI or Law Enforcement doesn't have enough to intervene with this plethora of indisputable evidence, then there's a huge double-standard. This is feeling way beyond what Mastro, Allen and Rogers did.

PWCC/PSA are to cards as Coach's Corner/Christopher Morales are to autographs. Actually they are worse, as the corrupt money pouring in is far greater.
Very good analogy

Bram99 06-01-2019 11:26 AM
or..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 1883158)
The bogus PSA-approved cards just keep coming on BO.... Cobb, Marquard and Mantle now... with no apparent end in sight.

If FBI or Law Enforcement doesn't have enough to intervene with this plethora of indisputable evidence, then there's a huge double-standard. This is feeling way beyond what Mastro, Allen and Rogers did.

PWCC/PSA are to cards as Coach's Corner/Christopher Morales are to autographs. Actually they are worse, as the corrupt money pouring in is far greater.
Or what Charles Ponzi is to schemes

swarmee 06-01-2019 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883348)
Forbes lol yeah 100 times more likely another puff piece.
I'm sure Forbes has at least one investigative journalist on staff. These articles basically write themselves.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1883362)
I'm sure Forbes has at least one investigative journalist on staff. These articles basically write themselves.
Is the same publication that's been worshipping Brent going to trash him?

swarmee 06-01-2019 11:52 AM
If you don't ask for it, it will never happen.

vintagetoppsguy 06-01-2019 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883364)
Is the same publication that's been worshipping Brent going to trash him?
That attitude is exactly why nothing will ever come of this. Your focus (and many others too) is only on Brent when there are multiple parties involved. If you put as much equal focus on the other parties as you did on Brent, someone might actually take you serious.

My 4:1 offer still stands. Anybody got balls?

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1883372)
That attitude is exactly why nothing will ever come of this. Your focus (and many others too) is only on Brent when there are multiple parties involved. If you put as much equal focus on the other parties as you did on Brent, someone might actually take you serious.

My 4:1 offer still stands. Anybody got balls?
I have said lots about PSA including today that I am starting to think SGC grades better. Am I willing to speculate that card doctors are paying graders, not yet, although I have acknowledged the possibility.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1883370)
If you don't ask for it, it will never happen.
Fair point.

nsaddict 06-01-2019 12:31 PM
Too bad PSA didn't offer pedigree service early on. "Moser doctoring collection" on the label....:D

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaddict (Post 1883379)
Too bad PSA didn't offer pedigree service early on. "Moser doctoring collection" on the label....:D
A PWCC sticker may be the equivalent. Just kidding. Sort of.

frankbmd 06-01-2019 12:42 PM
Has anyone on this forum received a sticker on a card they’ve consigned with PWCC?

I don’t think this post will unduly prolong the duration of this thread.;)

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2019 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd (Post 1883383)
Has anyone on this forum received a sticker on a card they’ve consigned with PWCC?

I don’t think this post will unduly prolong the duration of this thread.;)
I think Jesse said he got one once?

frankbmd 06-01-2019 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1883384)
I think Jesse said he got one once?
That’s why I added “unduly”.:D

MULLINS5 06-01-2019 12:51 PM
PWCC sold the cards to collectors and targeted investors. I don't think it's up to the buyer to send their card back into PSA to determine if there was altering. Collectors might do this, but likely not the investors. Brent has an obligation to his customers to make them aware that their investments are tainted. Instead, he's trying to change the game with his conservation/restoration nonsense. When it's time for the investors to sell, they're going to get a fraction of what they put into it. If Brent was truly a victim here and not complicit he'd put out a statement that PWCC is actively researching the fraud and will be contacting buyers so they can seek a refund through PSA's guarantee.


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