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-   -   Beware Carterscards2006 (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=133471)

mdschulze 02-22-2011 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 873411)
I just don't understand what the criminal history has to do with anything.
I personally think criminal activity has a lot to do with ANY seller. I would rather take my chances conducting business with someone who doesn't have a criminal history (or hasn't been caught yet & I'm unaware) than from a known felon! IMO, if a person displays no conscience while embezzling money, why would I expect him/her to act differently with a simple buy/sell transaction. Is society so numb these days that dishonesty, lack of morals and unethical business practices mean nothing anymore?

Peter_Spaeth 02-22-2011 09:12 PM
The seller's defense was based in large part on a fabricated story about what he had been told about Todd's buying habits. That makes his credibility highly relevant, and thus his history and the evidence of shilling, both of which in my view bear on his credibility, are relevant.

Peter_Spaeth 02-22-2011 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdschulze (Post 873438)
I personally think criminal activity has a lot to do with ANY seller. I would rather take my chances conducting business with someone who doesn't have a criminal history (or hasn't been caught yet & I'm unaware) than from a known felon! IMO, if a person displays no conscience while embezzling money, why would I expect him/her to act differently with a simple buy/sell transaction. Is society so numb these days that dishonesty, lack of morals and unethical business practices mean nothing anymore?
Apparently some here care only if the seller delivers the card they bought. Rather shocking to me, but that's just me.

vintagetoppsguy 02-22-2011 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdschulze (Post 873438)
I personally think criminal activity has a lot to do with ANY seller. I would rather take my chances conducting business with someone who doesn't have a criminal history (or hasn't been caught yet & I'm unaware) than from a known felon! IMO, if a person displays no conscience while embezzling money, why would I expect him/her to act differently with a simple buy/sell transaction. Is society so numb these days that dishonesty, lack of morals and unethical business practices mean nothing anymore?
I disagree, but you make some valid points. All I am saying is what does his criminal past have to do with this particular case?

novakjr 02-22-2011 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pup6913 (Post 873405)
Well we all know the Pro is more than likely over graded or altered as most are so why waist the money. His preference to do the GAI's only is just that, preference. I have bought 1 GAI card ever and it was my WOJO T205. I was lucky that it did cross and I lost a full grade from an 8 to a 7. I was more comfortable with SGC's 7 than a possible GAI 8 flip on the card if I had to sell. Sadly enough due to a family issue with my youngest I had to sell. Big regret but some day he will return to my registry. It has a sense of validity when SGC and PSA grade a card numerically, as compared to GAI, PRO, CSA, and so forth.
Thank You. Sorry to hear about having to give up the WOJO, and about the issue with your youngest. I hope all is well.

mdschulze 02-22-2011 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 873441)
I disagree, but you make some valid points. All I am saying is what does his criminal past have to do with this particular case?
I get what you're saying. My point was to place emphasis on his character as an individual and while conducting business, not specifically with this case. But... a man's character goes along way in business. If a seller displays characteristics of being dishonest, it's not below them to try and weasel their way out of situations such as this.

vintagetoppsguy 02-22-2011 09:38 PM
Just to clarify...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 873440)
Apparently some here care only if the seller delivers the card they bought. Rather shocking to me, but that's just me.
But keep in mind, we're talking about an eBay deal here where the buyer is protected through PayPal. What would I have to lose? If I were dealing with somebody outside of eBay, believe me I would want to know a lot more about them.

tiger8mush 02-22-2011 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 873440)
Apparently some here care only if the seller delivers the card they bought. Rather shocking to me, but that's just me.
What more could you ask of a seller? :D

botn 02-22-2011 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdschulze (Post 873438)
I personally think criminal activity has a lot to do with ANY seller. I would rather take my chances conducting business with someone who doesn't have a criminal history (or hasn't been caught yet & I'm unaware) than from a known felon! IMO, if a person displays no conscience while embezzling money, why would I expect him/her to act differently with a simple buy/sell transaction. Is society so numb these days that dishonesty, lack of morals and unethical business practices mean nothing anymore?
Memory Lane is certainly not hurting? The hobby must be a witness protection program of sorts for felons.

Vol 02-22-2011 10:45 PM
I would be pissed too if I tried to cross a graded card and it came back trimmed.

Sounds like more of a grading company beef than a seller beef. IMO. JMO.

jezzeaepi 02-22-2011 11:33 PM
First of all, maybe I am looking at the wrong price guides, but according to the few sales on VCP, the price isn't much of a discount. I don't know where the 5k$ value carter keeps quoting comes from, but I see 1095 for a PSA 6. Kind of hard for it to be a profitable scam when there is no profit. Now, if he were mad that the card didn't cross to a PSA 7.5, THEN maybe he could be flipping them and making a profit. That is not what happened though. He was mad that it didn't cross to *any* graded number, and was in fact altered to have the appearance of a higher grade.

Second of all, if Carter is so aware of the fact that the cards in GAI's holders are sketchy, and that there is great risk in them, then maybe he shouldn't be selling them(and by deduction, BUYING THEM HIMSELF)? The rules on ebay are more geared towards the buyer, not the seller, so I don't see how he expects to come out ahead.

Sterling Sports Auctions 02-22-2011 11:51 PM
For the detractors out there about Todd submitting the card to SGC. Did it dawn on you that when the seller stated that he knew GAI would sell for 20% of SGC or PSA, then why would he not try and submit his $1000 card to turn it into a $4000-$500 card? Or maybe he did and it came back the same results as Todd got.

The seller comes here to comes here tell here side of the story only to come up with a wonderful story and not address his problematic issues.

Those you defend this seller and other like him, going on buying from them, it only takes once and the whole experience is shot in the ass. Have a great time in life with your purchases.

Lee

teetwoohsix 02-23-2011 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carterscards2006 (Post 873366)
We post feedback for paying bidders immediately. Once feedback is left, you know who bought what. Use a little common sense guys. This is the last you will here from us. Thank you!!!
Paul
"Within 2 days after Todd won the card, we were contacted by 2 other very reputable sellers (who WILL remain anonymous)........"

Todd: "Seller left positive feedback 4 days after auction ended"

:confused:

So how did the 2 very reputable sellers know Todd won the card 2 days after he won the card if feedback wasn't left until 4 days after auction ended?

bobbyw8469 02-23-2011 04:48 AM
Quote:
then why would he not try and submit his $1000 card to turn it into a $4000-$500 card
Speaking for myself, I absolutely HATE the crackout game! I am a firm believer that cards left in other grading companies cases don't get a fair shake through a crossover service. I won't crack out a high dollar either. Maybe the seller feels the same way?

steve B 02-23-2011 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teetwoohsix (Post 873490)
So how did the 2 very reputable sellers know Todd won the card 2 days after he won the card if feedback wasn't left until 4 days after auction ended?
It's possible but a lot of effort to figure out stuff like that. The bidder names Ebay assigns to keep identities hidden don't change. So if you can connect the actual ID to the hidden ID it's possible.

But like I said, it's a bit of work, and gets harder the less active a bidder is. It's never been worth it to me, If I've been outbid I usually don't care who outbid me. And if I won I'm rarely concerned about who the underbidders were.

Steve Birmingham

cfc1909 02-23-2011 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carterscards2006 (Post 873287)
This is our first and last post on this site. We are not going to get ourselves involved in this circus that this thread has apparently become. The only reason we are even posting is to make everyone aware of what actually is going on here. For those customers of ours that have had nothing but positive experiences with us, thank you for your continued business and support.

In terms of the original post here from Todd, this is our position. We have been on ebay for over 10 years and have successfully completed 4,200+ transactions without a single incident. Each and every time we have an unsatisfied customer, we make it right immediately (as can clearly be seen in our feedback and our 5.0 star communication). For those that question our communication and customer service, our 5.0 perfect star rating should quickly end that discussion. Having said that, there is a point where an honest, customer service based business can get taken advantage of, and this is one of those instances. So ... here is the situation in a nutshell.

Within 2 days after Todd won this card, we were contacted by 2 other very reputable sellers (who WILL remain anonymous) and warned us that Todd may want to return the card down the road if things "don't work out" with either SGC or PSA. To make this more clear, Todd purchases GAI graded cards for 20% of their value (since we ALL know the risks associated with GAI) and if the cards cross to SGC or PSA he 5X his money. If they do not, he asks for a refund. In other words in this transaction, Todd either turns his $1,000 into $5,000 or gets his original investment back. Call us crazy, but this is clearly a scam. Because Todd pulls this act with ONLY very reputable sellers, he figures they will not want the hassle he may create (as he did here) and therefore they will return the money and he can't lose.

Well, we have decided to be the ones to stand up for the sellers out there and make a statement. See, we delivered the EXACT CARD that was described in the auction to Todd. He knew EXACTLY what he would be receiving and he knew EXACTLY what the risks were of purchasing a GAI graded card. Todd is a very smart person and has been a collector for a long time. He knows this exact same card in an SGC or PSA holder is worth many times what he paid. He also knows that he got this card at a huge discount because it was in a GAI holder and that there are implied risks of purchasing GAI graded cards. However, as he has done in the past, he figured if he sent the card off to SGC or PSA and they concluded there may be an issue, we would quickly refund his money. This time, Todd, you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

We want to point that many times buyers are unhappy for a myriad of reasons. In fact, 3 weeks ago a gentleman purchased $4,000+ worth of cards from us and emailed us 1 week later stating that his wife became ill and he really needed his money back for the cards to help with the doctor bills that were coming. He overnighted the cards back and we paypalled him his money back within 5 minutes of the receipt of the cards. If customers are honest and straight forward with us, we will always be with them. However, if customers are looking to "take advantage of us because we are honest sellers" we will not stand for this. As many of you have pointed out, we could have clearly refunded Todd his money and relisted the card. However, in doing so, we would be enabling Todd to take advantage of other sellers in the future and ultimately this behavior affects everyone in the hobby as prices have to be raised and sellers become less willing to work with their buyers.

To wrap things up, we just want to address the communication thing. When buyers out there are in the business of taking advantage of good sellers (like us), they DO NOT deserve the courtesy of our time to communicate back with them. As we have pointed out and another poster has pointed out, Todd knew exactly what he was doing here and clearly did not deserve any return communication from us. We quickly sent the claim to ebay and will let them deal with this. We just hope that this whole circus comes to an end and other buyers out there stay honest with us good sellers and we promise to return the favor.

Carterscards2006 will continue to ALWAYS provide each and every customer with top notch customer service and we will ALWAYS put the customer first as long as they do not try to deceive us. Our feedback proves that we have never had a dissatisfied customer in 10 years and 4,200+ transactions and you have our word we will continue to do provide the same first class service in the future.

Thank you, once again, to all of our great customers out there and we look forward to dealing with all of you for many years to come!!!




Todd should get his money back no questions asked.


If there was any doubt about Carterscards being no good, Paul Sabatino cleared that up with the above post. I am 100% Carterscards is no good.

The lack of communication made you look bad and once you did communicate it made you look worse.
You insult the intelligence of the board with your grade school level lies.
Please block my id from bidding in your auctions.

Like I said in my first post-this will cost you way more than 1k

Jim Rivera cfc1909

Peter_Spaeth 02-23-2011 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 873450)
But keep in mind, we're talking about an eBay deal here where the buyer is protected through PayPal. What would I have to lose? If I were dealing with somebody outside of eBay, believe me I would want to know a lot more about them.
To me, it's about more than will I get my card, it's about not wanting to support people of whom I don't approve, on general principles. But as we've seen time and again, "stuff" trumps all for lots of folks.

pwilk17 02-23-2011 06:29 AM
The Truth about the Hobby
 
Crooks will come Ray – Crooks will come. The one constant has been baseball and crooks will know that the lure of that perfectly doctored and or shill bid card will prove too irresistible to resist.

From shady dealers to card doctors to the owners of grading companies selling cards to autograph authentication experts who profit from authenticating fake autographs to auction houses and individuals that employ shill bidding to counterfeit card experts to counterfeit slab experts ………., there seem to be a lot of shady characters and crooks involved in this hobby.

Peter_Spaeth 02-23-2011 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwilk17 (Post 873506)
Crooks will come Ray – Crooks will come. The one constant has been baseball and crooks will know that the lure of that perfectly doctored and or shill bid card will prove too irresistible to resist.

From shady dealers to card doctors to the owners of grading companies selling cards to autograph authentication experts who profit from authenticating fake autographs to auction houses and individuals that employ shill bidding to counterfeit card experts to counterfeit slab experts ………., there seem to be a lot of shady characters and crooks involved in this hobby.
No worries Peter the FBI investigation surely will clean it up. :eek:

botn 02-23-2011 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 873537)
No worries Peter the FBI investigation surely will clean it up. :eek:
Gosh I surely hope not Peter. Some of those folks are admired and revered by many of this board's regulars.

lharri3600 02-23-2011 12:06 PM
issac,
man oh man did you nail it! you nailed it! why can't we see that grading is no more than a scam? i mean i believe a trimmed card is a trimmed card. how in the world can a card be sent in, deemed trimmed, and sent in 2 weeks later and gets a grade of 7! maybe, just maybe, the card is not trimmed at all. so much for the subjectivity baloney.

Fred 02-23-2011 12:38 PM
This thread is officially in the top ten with respect to the number of posts. Only a little more than 430 posts to become number 1 and only less than 100 more posts to be in the top 5!

scmavl 02-23-2011 01:05 PM
I think the only thing I learned from this thread is that there are some Net54 members I don't want to deal with, based on the rudeness displayed.

D. Bergin 02-23-2011 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teetwoohsix (Post 873490)
"Within 2 days after Todd won the card, we were contacted by 2 other very reputable sellers (who WILL remain anonymous)........"

Todd: "Seller left positive feedback 4 days after auction ended"

:confused:

So how did the 2 very reputable sellers know Todd won the card 2 days after he won the card if feedback wasn't left until 4 days after auction ended?

I don't have a dog in this fight and I'm not going to pretend to know what the truth is in this situation.

But it's very easy to see what other bidders have won. You don't have to guess their id and track them around.

Advanced search - Bidder lookup

All of their wins for the past month or so come up. No need to wait for feedback being left.

I know because I've followed problem bidders, renegers after auction before to see what they are up to.

I just recently had a bidder take three weeks to pay a $190 bill, send me a Paypal e-check which promptly bounced and disappeared. Meanwhile they're still bidding left and right and spending several hundred additional $'s while they're jerking me around. They even got positive feedback from some of their purchases.

I didn't contact the other sellers but it certainly did cross my mind to satisfy my curiosity and see if they are doing the same to others.

I was able to file for unpaid item claims before time ran out, but it really does gall me that Ebay keeps the buyers number of unpaid item claims private, along with bid retractions for the most part.

Fred 02-23-2011 01:19 PM
Ok, Paul, do yourself a favor - "out" the two reputable dealers and have them corroborate your story... If you can do this (and people can agree that the two sellers are "reputable") then you have something to fall back on. If you refuse to reveal the two dealers then there are going to be more skeptics than people willing to believe your statement.

Cat 02-23-2011 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfc1909 (Post 873502)
Todd should get his money back no questions asked.
Thanks Jim! Finally, somebody got straight to the point.

teetwoohsix 02-23-2011 01:32 PM
Thanks for explaining that to me Steve & D.Bergin.......I really didn't know it was possible to do that. I used to buy on ebay, but haven't in many months.
Even when I was buying T206's, I didn't really get too in depth with ebays functions...if I won I'd just pay and get excited waiting for the mail :)

Sincerely, Clayton

teetwoohsix 02-23-2011 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred (Post 873592)
Ok, Paul, do yourself a favor - "out" the two reputable dealers and have them corroborate your story... If you can do this (and people can agree that the two sellers are "reputable") then you have something to fall back on. If you refuse to reveal the two dealers then there are going to be more skeptics than people willing to believe your statement.
This is a great suggestion.........

Anthony S. 02-23-2011 02:06 PM
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred (Post 873592)
Ok, Paul, do yourself a favor - "out" the two reputable dealers and have them corroborate your story...
.

CMIZ5290 02-23-2011 03:38 PM
Anthony- for god's sake man, why don't you just let this stupid thing die? don't you have anything else to do?

Rob D. 02-23-2011 04:13 PM
Yeah, Anthony. For God's sake.

cfc1909 02-23-2011 04:23 PM
CMIZ5290 38
vintagetoppsguy 31
nolemmings 21
Peter_Spaeth 19
pgellis 18
novakjr 15
Pup6913 13
bobbyw8469 13
pwilk17 12
Jim VB 10
mdschulze 9
docpatlv 6
Rob D. 6
FrankWakefield 6
edhans 6
bowlingshoegiverouterguy 6
barrysloate 6
carrigansghost 5
JohnnyHarmonica 5
ctownboy 5
chaddurbin 5
bcornell 5
teetwoohsix 5
Robextend 5
botn 4
jezzeaepi 4
DJR 4
Fred 4
rhettyeakley 4
D. Bergin 4
oldjudge 4
Edwolf1963 4
slidekellyslide 3
tiger8mush 3
Leon 3
iwantitiwinit 3
HBroll 3
quinnsryche 3
BBSD 3
richieb315 2
ullmandds 2
leaflover 2
Kenny Cole 2
vintagecpa 2
steve B 2
T205 2
Ease 2
cfc1909 2
BlueDevil89 2
mintacular 2
scmavl 2
3-2-count 2
Anthony S. 2
Jacklitsch 2
Cat 2
glchen 2
Carterscards2006 2
dstudeba 1
VOLnVEGAS 1
Mikehealer 1
cozmokramer 1
lharri3600 1
gnaz01 1
JamesGallo 1
T206DK 1
Big Ben 1
rman444 1
mantleman 1
Tsaiko 1
jb217676 1
Chesbro41 1
painthistorian 1
OldSchoolBaseball 1
Bilko G 1
Ladder7 1
Rich Klein 1
DICKTOWLE 1
danmckee 1
jp1216 1


Kevin -Anthony has 2 posts in this thread and you have 38-that was a joke right..:D...:eek:

CMIZ5290 02-23-2011 04:25 PM
Jim- obviously, you don't have alot to do either by taking the time to create that very instructive list. i was referring to his creative artwork!

Rob D. 02-23-2011 04:27 PM
Yeah, Jim. For God's sake.

(Just trying to climb the list.)

FourStrikes 02-23-2011 04:34 PM
384...and counting.
 
1 Attachment(s)
DS

Anthony S. 02-23-2011 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 (Post 873652)
Jim- obviously, you don't have alot to do either by taking the time to create that very instructive list. i was referring to his creative artwork!
He's right, Jim. I spend 45 minutes a day cleaning up after that unicorn, alone. It adds up.

TUM301 02-23-2011 04:46 PM
So I leave the car running, having just run over my new "father`s day" picnic table", it`s 4:30 in the morning and the ole lady says "what the hell time did you leave the party?"

Jacklitsch 02-23-2011 04:50 PM
Only 2???

Must have been taking too many naps.

botn 02-23-2011 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfc1909 (Post 873651)
Kevin -Anthony has 2 posts in this thread and you have 38-that was a joke right..:D...:eek:
38 and apparently, counting.

novakjr 02-23-2011 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacklitsch (Post 873665)
Only 2???

Must have been taking too many naps.
One of which was to bust my balls. I feel special.

jp1216 02-23-2011 06:14 PM
Crap - I'm at the bottom of the list.... Gotta fix that...

Jacklitsch 02-23-2011 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novakjr (Post 873672)
One of which was to bust my balls. I feel special.

:D

Jim VB 02-23-2011 06:24 PM
I have 10 (now 11) posts in this thread? Seems like 9-10 too many. Is there a patch I can use to help me quit?

Rob D. 02-23-2011 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacklitsch (Post 873665)
Only 2???

Must have been taking too many naps.
You can never have too many naps/Naps.

CW 02-23-2011 08:55 PM
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4871/naps.jpg

bbeck 02-24-2011 01:03 PM
I just caught this thread and I might as well get a spot on the thread list. I actually purchased two cards from Carterscards in their last auction. A PSA 8 Beckley Fan Craze (a very weak PSA 8) and a 1914 SGC 60 Cracker Jack Schalk. I would first preface that the reasoning by Carterscards and his accusations regarding Todd Schultz (who I do not know) seem very implausible and insulting. I debated the GAI stuff in Carterscards auction because I have crossed very early GAI stuff with 100% success (6 for 6 with 3 bump up grades and one bump down, 2 remained the same) I was just unsure whether this was truly very early GAI stuff and how to tell from the flip numbers. The flips were old style. When GAI first branched off with Mike Baker as head grader, Rocchi convinced some high profile collectors to transfer some of their high end cards out of PSA holders and into GAI holders, creating many of the first graded designations. I am sure many transferred back (did all?). He also provided some great incentives with dealers at cut rate pricing to submit their cards to GAI. So, obviously many perfectly legitimate GAI cards exist. GAI had some credibility and that is what some collectors still bank on. Today, it is a total crapshoot regarding what will cross and what will not and most realize this is the chance they take when bidding on GAI. As a devil's advocate, what if I attempted to cross the Schalk (it is a really solid SGC 60) over to PSA and they said it was trimmed. I would not go back to the seller and ask for a refund. Granted this is not a true apples to apples comparison as both grading services still have strong credibility in the market. But what if I were such a pure PSA guy that I did not want any of my cards in SGC holders and PSA says it is trimmed. I could resell it on ebay but would I have guilt that it is a trimmed card? After all, PSA said trimmed, who cares what SGC thinks, I believe PSA. All 3 grading services GAI, PSA, and SGC are and were imperfect. Some more than others. I took the shot on some higher end GAI cards and was lucky I guess. But I did have the knowledge that the cards were truly from the infancy of GAI. If the cards had come back trimmed I know I would not have gone back to the sellers. I also sent all 6 cards in raw (which would have probably voided any returns anyhow) as I knew PSA would look at them with a slanted view otherwise. I think the bottom line is, GAI cards are a risky venture. The original seller of the card (Carterscards) took a shot when he purchased the card (or maybe it was consignment) and who knows whether he tried to cross it. But I cannot fault him for selling a card that SGC now deems as trimmed and not accepting a return. I think we take our shot with GAI cards. Carterscards took a shot on the card. Where does he go if it is returned and where does the food chain end with this card? GAI does not even exist anymore, they are now Global Authority with a new holder. The company has no guarantee on the buyback of old GAI cards. In the end, I agree with Paul Gallo's comment-send it to PSA for another opinion. I do not think you can fault Carterscards, he was not the trimmer if the card was truly trimmed. He sold a graded card by a company who had credibility at one time but is now suspect. The buyback guarantee does not pass along to him because the company no longer exists. As a final note, I believe the buyer will win the paypal case (as long as the card is in the GAI holder) anyhow, as paypal sides with the buyer 99.9% of the time and the time frame is short regarding the purchase.-Bob Beck

slidekellyslide 02-24-2011 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 (Post 873433)
Mike- i'll give you that one. Pretty quick response! I even tried to be politically correct and edit my response. You win that round, no offense.
You have a problem with Italians?

Rob D. 02-24-2011 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slidekellyslide (Post 873934)
You have a problem with Italians?
Oh, Dan. For God's sake.

(Still climbing.)

Rob D. 02-25-2011 05:17 AM
Nice cards, Chuck!

Sterling Sports Auctions 02-25-2011 08:58 AM
No one that seems to be behind Carter has answered this question, which seems to be a strong possibility:

"For the detractors out there about Todd submitting the card to SGC. Did it dawn on you that when the seller stated that he knew GAI would sell for 20% of SGC or PSA, then why would he not try and submit his $1000 card to turn it into a $4000-$5000 card? Or maybe he did and it came back the same results as Todd got."


Lee


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