ca. 1909 B/W image of a San Francisco college dorm room
 

I think I found a picture of Marc's college bedroom online....

The Gibson Girls were a nice touch, Marc!

:)

How did you know that I went to Girl's High?

Lots of cool stuff in the pic. I've never seen the Santa Clara pennant on the wall, or the blanket on the bed. Would love to find them. There is also a Santa Clara vs. St. Mary's football program on the back wall, also from 1909.

The top Giants pennant is one of the first ones I purchased when I started collecting pennants. Every time I see one of these come up for auction, I never even really bother to look at it, because I already have it. I noticed the bottom one on ebay a few weeks ago. It has much better graphics (you can actually see facial features), so I bought it.

I wonder if the better graphics have to do with the nicer one using better materials, or if the screens actually get worn over time (like a sculpture mold) and lose detail?

Nice. But they seem to be different screens. Look at the top of the bridge.

You must have been really good at where's Waldo :)

Everything else about the pennant is so similar. I suppose the screen was copied at some point? And lost some detail? Everything else in the image lost definition, but that piece at the top pf the bridge is simply gone.

Here are three slightly different versions I picked up this past month. Yes, I'm that bored, waiting for something really cool to show up.

^^^^ So, who made these pennants? I can keep track.

Even the panel underneath is different … one has four openings the other has six

Definitely Ad Flag

Anyone want to try to name the different paint colors in the three pennants?

Gold, orange, pink.

Greg also kills it on those "find the six differences" things!

Seriously, great observations, Greg. My feeling (which just developed yesterday) is that the poor definition pennants are not Ad Flags, but a rip-off by some other company. Maybe the inferior screen printer changed the bridge just to cover his ass? Domer might be able to chime in on this.

Here's my orange on black and black on orange examples...

The poor graphics versions do have that "bootleg" feel and look to them, and often have really bad cut jobs.

I think the poor graphic ones probably are bootlegs. In addition to the dull, unrefined graphics, there are way more of them available than would normally be the case. It might be the most common "vintage" pennant ever made. :rolleyes:

Actually, the orange with bad graphics is a lot less available than the black with good graphics.

What about the badly cut black ones with bad graphics...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19487630226...oAAOSwGjRiGp~4


The poorly defined graphics look very similar to this remake/bootleg/repro/fantasy (or whatever you want to call it). Would not be surprised if it's the same maker?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13393314769...cAAOSwJ5FhhYhj

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17518210781...8AAOSwiThiHn~Q

My opinion is … different maker. These last two seem better quality than the first. Somebody made defunct team pennants in the mid 1970s, the brown Browns pennant with Brownie, green Phila A’s, white Senators with the Nationals logo … even the Pilots have a repro. I think these Giants fit that mold.

I dunno. I think the stitching on the back will tell the story, I suspect it is identical. I wish I could describe it in words but Ad Flag, Keezer, and ASCO have what looks like a double stitch, which keeps it tight. Trench and WGN have a single stitch.

...yes, someone did: Trench! Although, they were "distributed" through another company d/b/a "APSCO" of Brooklyn, NY. Occasionally these repros, which were actually made in the late 1970s, come up for sale in their original APSCO packaging, shown below, with the distinctive "Pennant Post" lettering at the top of the card header.

By the 1980s an even cheaper version of these was produced by Trench/APSCO. On these second generation repros, you'll note they were 100% screen printed atop a white (and only white) felt substrate, i.e., the blue color of the felt was itself screened on. These can be identified by their white frame surrounding the edges of the long sides of the pennant; and the reverse, which will be 100% white (not blue).

Those New York and Brooklyn pennants are awful.

I just checked my SF pennants we were discussing. The black one is semi-soft; the orange is stiff as a board.

Has anyone scored anything vintage lately? I have something on the way…

Won a cool PCL pennant last night, Seattle Rainiers. Seems to be mid-late 60s.

Interesting pic circulating on Twitter, an Ebbets Field souvenir stand from 1954. Pennants for sale are from the mystery NYC area company. Ten years later brought no changes unless the team changed (last pic which someone posted here earlier is from ‘64)

I saw the Seattle pennant in completed listings. Are you starting a PCL collection, Greg? I’ve been searching for a Tacoma Giants for YEARS!

I’d love to … I only have an Angels besides this one. Never have seen Tacoma. Once owned a Seals but sold it like a dummy. I do like Minor League pennants in general … a few of my best …

Those are beauties! I only have a picture of a Tacoma pennant from a big time Tacoma collector (all Tacoma sports). It's dull and probably not even full sized. That said, if it ever turns up, you had better let me get it! :p

Not to put pressure on you Kyle...but I need my fix. Where's the new content? :D

Of course!

I emailed the owner of the Tacoma pennant today. He said I’d have to “back up the Brinks truck” to get it. Sorry, but I’m not backing up anything for that pennant. It’s only 18” long.

Yeah he needs to relax a little …

Did you get the 1969 cloth Giants?

It's coming, it's coming. :)

Been a little busy ... but, it's gonna happen.

I did. It arrived today.

There were 24 MLB teams in 1969, yes? Is it know or suspected that a cloth pennant was made for each? How many do you have, Greg?

I have seen cloth for all 24 except for Oakland. I have that in felt with the 69 MLB trademark. I own 21 of the 24. It’s possible that they used cloth through 1971 as I have never seen a Senators in felt. The Phillies is super rare for some reason

Picked up an older Santa Clara pennant this past week, and it has an interesting label for Ellery Arms. It's an odd shape/size, which probably points to it being decently old.

I also took an updated pic of the SF Giants pennants we had been talking about last week, just to give a full shot of the color rainbow. Greg, you asked about the stitching on the back. They all have a similar stitching pattern (some kind of double stitch) on the back, although the thread quality seems to change (more like simple thin thread on the newer ones with the smudgy graphics).

Completist Marc. :p

Really like the old Santa Clara pennant. It looks like the Ellery Arms Company was a catalog company/store. I'm not sure if they'd have been the manufacturer of the pennant though.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-co-2974186229

Good find, Gary. I think you're spot on: Ellery Arms is what you would call a "distributor" of pennants. I highly doubt they manufactured pennants.

In my research, I've found this to be true for many of the order-by-mail retailers of the day that circulated catologues featuring felt pennants, e.g., Spalding, Sears Roebuck, etc. These catalogues were thick; sometimes hundreds of pages long. Pennants made up only a few pages within these catalogues; and therefore represented only a small part of their business.

In most instances, pennants sold via these distributors would feature no label; but, sometimes, they featured the label of the distributor--not the maker. Which has only added to the confusion as to who made them....

I also just won this pennant with an Ellery label (although it hasn't arrived yet). My dad's high school.

This is a weird pennant (currently on eBay). It looks like two pennant companies each made part of it. The printing along the edges is clearly Trench-like. The logo and names and spine are also. But the printing in the middle (“Souvenir … Home of Champions” is in the style of the unknown NYC area company that made the 1958 SF/LA opening day pennant and the 1954 WS pennant that was posted awhile back. Pictured is an oversized NYY of mine which is definitely not Trench ..

My guess is Trench 100% and they just “borrowed” the inner print.

Gotta love eBay. This exact pennant just sold FIVE DAYS ago in auction for $490, and the winner now lists it as BIN at …

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12520641174...iMmPF&LH_BIN=1

It’ll never sell. I have that same pennant in green, and would be happy selling it for a quarter of that price.

I thought the Yankees pennant that Greg pointed out would go for more. Condition?

Yankees pennants don’t seem to be in high demand, surprisingly.

Here's my desperate attempt to get our beloved thread back on track...

This pennant is on ebay. The seller wants waaaay too much for it but Marc and I both like the white ball. All orange SF pennants of this style are all black graphics. FWIW, I do collect Giants minor league stuff as long as the team was known as Giants and not, for example, Firebirds or Flying Squirrels.

I do covet the white ball, but not for a $200 opening bid.

Please tell me the Giants really were affiliated with a minor league team named, "The Flying Squirrels." :D

Not “were”….are! Double A affiliate.

Here’s their mascot…Nutsy :p

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I have coached in their ballpark (also home to Virginia Commonwealth Univ.). Kind of a dump.

“The Diamond.”

Not a diamond in the rough?

A diamond in a rough area of Richmond … it has seen better days

College Flag Co. Columbus Ohio
 

Is anyone familiar with this maker? It is a label on a large oversized 1915 pennant. I am curious if they were a small local maker or if they produced more broadly or became known under a different name.

Thanks
Joe

College Flag Co., Columbus, OH
 

Joe,

I'm not familiar with any maker d/b/a "College Flag Co." However, I am familiar with two pennant makers located in Columbus, OH doing business in the mid-1910s: Ohio Pennant Co. and H.A. Morgan Co. See below examples.

As concerns the latter company's label ... it sure resembles yours, doesn't it?? Same font. Both say, "COLUMBUS, O" which strikes me as kind of unique.

Maybe Mr. Morgan sold the business by 1915, and the new owner adopted your name? Hard to imagine there being three pennant makers in one college town....

I think that theory has merit. I knew Domer wouldn’t let us down!

Thanks Domer! I think that makes sense.

And you thought there were no more bargains on ebay...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38480930442...cAAOSwxk5iRiRN


https://www.ebay.com/itm/38480928266...UAAOSwXA5iRh7T

;)

That Cardinals pennant must have been a stunner, when brand new! 1950’s?

Late '50s would be the very earliest guess. Probably more like early 1960s (and worth $70 - $80 at best) :rolleyes:

Who were the bootleggers and why were they so good at quality control?

Those “plain” Trenches are beautiful, including both of these.

Super Champs!

With rookie pitching phenom Dave Rigelli.

Don’t forget Lou Pinelli!

BTW - I would still want that thing if I was a Yankee collector. :p

Picked up this red/gold three-quarters 49ers miner pennant from Jason (thanks, Jason).

Also bought this blue full-size 49ers miner pennant missing the bottom tassels. This pennant is very rare in colors other than red, and this one is in really nice shape (no fading to the miner graphic paint etc) otherwise. I happen to have a bug damaged Trench Giants pennant with the same color spine and tassels and decided to pull a pair of tassels that I will get attached to this 49ers pennant. I know that people have different feelings about doing stuff like this, but I I like to display these pennants and think that it will look much better with two sets of tassels. And who knows when a complete blue one will show up? (probably tomorrow)

It's night and day with the second of set of tassels. Your eyes are immediately drawn to the missing tassels in the first pic which makes it seem the pennant is in worse shape than it really is. Any easy fix that makes a big difference.

They honored the manager with an extra "M" as well. These guys were on their game this day.

Unique Emblem?
 

Hey pennant guys - :) - has anyone seen this leather emblem on an early Chicago Penn Co pennant before? Although not related to Cornell or any sport, I found it to be quite unique and interesting, with the cigarette and dog.

Wondering if there are any other examples of it. It's on a large 34" pennant, c.1915. Could it have been a custom order for a fraternity or social society? I am wondering how this was ordered back then. Maybe the group sent the artwork and then the emblem was created? or Possibly they just asked for a design to be created for them? Curious on any theories.

Thanks!
Joe

Although I have no theories, that’s a cool pennant. What is the “CO” the beginning of?

BTW - that guy’s dog walks like mine (behind the back) :p

The most fantastic looking football pennant IMO. Especially ones like yours where the logo colors are still vibrant. I wrote about the plain Trench baseball series the other day, it seems they made their football pennants similarly. Same font used.

If it was a Cornell pennant, I’d guess that it was the then-University President or something.

Yes, it's a Cornell pennant. Thanks, that's an interesting theory about depicting the President, but it really bears no resemblance to then President J.G. Schurman who was slightly more distinguished looking :), and as far as I know was not known to walk with a cane or a dog :). But that's a good idea...possibly it resembles another known university 'character' or leader of the time - I'll research further.

Try contacting the University with this link

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/...rtifactsandart

… or try Alumni Relations. My guess is that they will be helpful and interested. Keep us posted!

Joe, I've never seen this artwork elsewhere on a pennant.

Around the turn of the century wholesale manufacturers would distribute a catalogue, and inside there'd be dozens of different pennant styles and corresponding style numbers. You just told them what school name you wanted the product to read; and, you picked from 3-4 fonts. By the mid-1910s, most makers had a library of sorts containing generic artwork the customer could select from, e.g., football running back, baseball pitcher, lacrosse player. In some cases, these catalogues even included felt color samples the customer could pick from.

By the 1950s, colleges adopted mascots, and pennant makers began offering their customers an even greater library of generic artwork featuring bears, tigers, you name it.

Many makers boasted about their "art departments," and even accepted crude schematics of what you wanted their artist to make. It's possible your artwork was the product of such a request. But, the bull dog kind of looks mascot-like, so I'm wondering if this wasn't just some off the shelf artwork from Chipenco's library someone at Cornell's bookstore thought looked cute?

Note that this artwork was not screen printed, like many of Chipenco's competitors of the day had begun doing. I suspect Chipenco had not yet developed a patent or license to use this new production method by the mid-1910s, when this was made. They weren't alone. To get around this problem, Chipenco had to use burnt leather appliques or else utilize the relief/letterpress method (rubber stamp on white felt) to make detailed university seals or illustrations.

By the way, Joe's website (www.iyellcornell.com) is worth visiting if you haven't yet done so. There's even a section dedicated to (Cornell) pennants!

The “burnt leather” logos are super cool, like this one (not mine) which I consider the “holy grail”.

Joe said his pennant is “not related to Cornell.”

I’m confused. :confused:

Sorry Rob, I meant the Emblem of an old man and a dog is not related to Cornell - that is the mystery. Typically I would see a football or baseball player, or other sport, or if after 1915, the Cornell bear mascot. This is so unique and unrelated, hence wondering where it came from.

Thanks Domer. Extremely helpful information and food for thought. Whether this was off the shelf artwork, or a custom art department creation, is the fun mystery. I have a lot of catalogues and store interior images and photographs of the various local bookstores and shops and retailers, showing what they offered at the time. I have also collected a lot of dorm room photos from the period. I haven't found any examples like this.

I see your point about the bull-dog kind of looking mascot like, and had a similar thought - however, what seems to stand out more is the old hipster looking dude with the blunt.:rolleyes: If it was off the shelf, it seems pretty obscure and seldom requested. Looking through many class books from the time, one can see that Clubs, Societies and various Smoker and social events were a prominent part of campus life. Lots of great student images of smoking and dogs, and various 'stunts'. I am also wondering if this was a one time order for a Society.

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone better get used to "loosely rolled" pennants.

April, 2022 will see a nonstandard fee attributed to parcels that must be sorted manually when packaging exceeds sorting requirements. Packages with a length exceeding 22″ will have a $4.00 surcharge, packages with length exceeding 30″ will have $15.00 surcharge, and packages over 2 cubic feet will have a $15.00 surcharge.

I'm beginning to hate the Post Office. I wasted an hour and a half of my life, last Friday, trying to submit an online claim. Every time I got to "submit" I got a message "Error 413 - Entity too large" I finally gave up and am waiting on a claim form through the mail.

The thread's been quiet for ages and boom in 24 hours it's busier than Time Square. :)

Love the 49ers pennant Marc. Personally, I think the tassels that you've added make a big difference.

I might be the only one, but I like getting "loosely rolled" pennants. Especially when they're done properly. One auction house that I've used a few times, uses a thick cardboard tube to roll the pennants around and then wraps the rolled pennant(s) in plastic film. It arrives safe and sound every time, is much easier to ship and doesn't get beaten to hell by USPS or Fedex.

The worst and most unprofessional customer service on the planet.

I've warmed up to the rolled pennant packages as well... except when it's rolled too tightly and the painted graphics crack.

There can be problems with flat boxed pennants, too. Most sellers fail to use a plastic sleeve, which presents potential problems...

1. I received one last week with a hole punched all the way through the flat box. Pennant was ruined.
2. Pennant can move inside the box, causing the last 3" of the tip to look like an accordion.
3. Sellers get lax, and let the tip or tassels get caught up in the tape on either end. I've experienced a few lost/destroyed tips and tassels as a result.

So "loosely rolled" is fine with me if they do it the right way.