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So does all of this light and noise change anything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17 (Post 1500248)

Great post. If not for Leon's willingness, and I would say encouragement, for this topic to be thoroughly discussed, on what other forum could we do this?

I was just on another hobby forum site, reading a new post on this topic, and when I went back a few minutes later, that post had been deleted. Apparently, talking about this in the "wrong" way is not allowed in some venues...

To quote Voltaire: "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

No need to state which Forum. The Obvious is duely noted.
"Censorship:Protection From Reality"

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBAKER (Post 1500251)

So does all of this light and noise change anything?

Hi Jeff,

Great question.

I truly believe it will change things. However, the breadth and depth of change that will result from this is clearly uncertain. There will be some people who do nothing, and others who use the now-public information to avoid doing business with all of those upon whom a negative light has been cast. Everyone else will fall somewhere in between, tailoring their response to this news in the manner which personally suits them best.

I do believe one thing is reasonable to presume. There are quite a few hobbyists who will approach auctions with a greater amount of care, caution, and due diligence. At least, they will for a while.

My sincere hope is that this occurrence serves as the starting point for sustained pressure on all auction houses to ensure fair, transparent, arms-length transactions. This also applies to other platforms where an auction format is offered. And yes, I'm looking at you, eBay.

Again, great question. Please know that my response was meant to add to an ongoing conversation, and I am not directing negativity towards you or any particular person.

Best regards,

Eric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17 (Post 1500248)

Sad but spot on.

The self proclaimed "Friend of the Collector" has dispatched both the Goldin Mossad and the paid help to put GUU on information lockdown in regards to his reported misdeeds 24/7.

Mods lights on that thread never go off with any posts that aren't from fan boys and/or are critical of his holiness are deleted within minutes of being posted with some members I hear being banned for nothing more than trying to discuss the matter.

Sum of the self important/entitled in this racket seem 2 forget that without US there is no them

maybe the ideas of censorship

and suppression on another forum should have it's own thread. It's important if it's important to the community at large and I think it is - but I think in this thread perhaps it detracts a bit from the core issues regarding shilling and obfuscation. Just one man's opinion and nothing against the spirit of your concerns.

The "Holiness" in question is on Consign/shill list and is owner and chief of that closed society. Thus, indeed does have merit being a owner of a AH. The recent posts on that "closed" society is robotic and too the (his) point. The people posting obviosly are plants" of Dear Leader. It's like reading transcripts from tonight's N.Korean news agency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBAKER (Post 1500251)

So does all of this light and noise change anything?

The majority of change IMO will have to come at the hands of the FBI (who do by the way watch these forums) because these Turds will not be stopping on their own.

Their is 2 much $$$ at stake and the level of greed is 2 great 4 the powers that be 2 change on their own since Bill Mastro apparently was the baby daddy industry model for the bad behavior employed industry wide (Doctored cards, created/fake GU, shilling)

Nothing is given without U fighting for it and at this point its more about standing up for whats rite until the authorities take further action.

I personally try to avoid auctions when sourcing my GU after being shilled in probably every 1 I've ever participated in.

The surface has only been scratched here shilling is easier for the FBI 2 bust unlike the wave of created/fake GU or spec correct never worn passed off as GU sold in just about every auction I've ever looked at.

With all the companies running auctions on such a frequent basis does anyone truly believe that there is that much real quality items out there that aren't buried in someones collection?

Outright fake & misrepresented shit is as much apart of the hobby as shilling

Ron Kosiewicz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1496943)

My name appears on the list of "shill bidders" on one transaction where my friend, Ron Goldberg, was the consignor. I don't view myself as a shill bidder, nor do I believe Ron did anything inappropriate. I have no doubt that some of you will disagree, and candidly I have shared this with a few people I respect a lot and they come out different ways. In any event, these are the facts.

In 2007, Ron had a valuable but relatively low demand oddball set (one of the Red Men sets). At some point he was talking to Doug and Doug asked if he would consider consigning the set. Ron said that he would but that because it was an oddball set, he was reluctant to do so unless a reserve could be placed on the auction, particularly since one of Ron's lots had sold well below his expectations in a previous auction. Doug said that he would not place a formal reserve, but instructed Ron that he could achieve the same result if he had a friend bid the reserve amount. Doug insisted, however, that if the friend won the auction, Ron would have to pay the buyer's premium.

Ron then asked me if I would let him bid using my ID. After thinking it over, I agreed. My thinking at the time was that Ron was not going to consign the set anyhow without a de facto reserve (so that there really was no scenario of a no reserve auction where someone could have won the set for a pittance), and that because Ron was going to have to pay the buyer's premium if the bid from my account won, the result would be the same as if I paid for the set and then flipped it back to Ron.

As it turned out, Ron's fear was correct and the bid from my account was high bid, even though Ron had hoped the set might go much higher and in fact sold it for 20k more eventually. So he paid the premium and the set was returned to him. It worked out exactly the same as if there had been a reserve, or higher opening bid. No victim. Nobody "run up." To be clear, Ron had no idea who else had bid or whether they had placed a top all. I am pretty sure, by the way, that many of the lots identified by the government as allegedly involving shill bidding (including multiple lots consigned by other Net 54 board members whose names have not been mentioned yet) are of the same character. Some, on the other hand, doubtless are lots where Mastro and Allen knew the top alls and bid them up themselves, or told the consignor.

I understand there are different ways to view the transaction. We have, in fact, debated this issue before at least in the abstract. I understand the other side, and have no doubt many of you folks will vilify Ron and me. So be it. I have nothing to hide. And apologies for the delay in posting, but I needed to verify the facts with the consignor.

If you are going to vilify Ron, by the way, please be sure to include the other board members identified as consignors on multiple lots, it would be very unfair to single him out.

I agree with Pete on this one--thanks for the explanation, Pete!

Larry

Quote:

Tom Morello is older than me but still way cooler...

Tom Morello is a guitar playing MF. He's awesome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBAKER (Post 1500251)

So does all of this light and noise change anything?

I'd had a couple of initial bids placed with Goldin prior to the list being posted here. I decided not to bid further after learning of his name being tagged as a shiller in the list.