easy guys.

even though you threw my post into the pretzel machine, 53 was not a knock.

nor the fact that most 53+ folks don't know who rage against the machine is.


on the contrary, eric...i actually like that a few of ya'll know or even like ratm.

seriously, i threw a lob of a water melon out there for an easy grandslam w/ bulls on parade. sat back and waited on "...and a pocket full of shills" and not one person ran with it.

so, i still officially stand by that statement 100% and that most here have no clue on that reference. however, that certainly isn't a knock to 53+ folks not having good musical taste. in fact i grew up in the 80's and while we had a decent run of bands, my dials go straight to 70's stations.


and while i appreciate the groups you like and don't feel the need to list my musical resume...i can assure you i know nothing about war pigs or sweet leaf smoke on the water which is literally about them burning down the montreux theatre, dime bag darrell, metallica and them being the only band to play on every continent, heck, they might have even played in the garden of eden or is it ina gadda da vida?, steppenwolf although i wouldn't refer to them as heavy metal.

all i know is that most here would not know the ratm reference and that fairies wear boots, ya gotta believe me.

besides after les paul and robert johnson, it's all just noise anyways!

-youngster

That is not my experience, Larry. Most times I have a pretty concrete budget I can work with for an auction. I have often gone into OT with high bids on several lots that were later knocked out, leaving me with available cash but nothing to bid on even though there were items I would have bid on otherwise. Conversely, in an auction like Sterling where all lots close at the same time, I have successfully shifted my 'action' to alternative lots when the ones I was high bidder on fell out.

ETA: Tom Morello is older than me but still way cooler...

I liked your original post.

Robert Johnson was the ultimate youngster!!!

Consignors should like certain forms of collusion. I'm either going in on a lot with someone or not bidding at all. Which would you as consignor prefer?

That is good for you if you want to stay up all night. You ignore the people who go to bed with the high bid, but get sniped by someone who stays up all night. The consignor ends up losing money because one of his bidders is asleep and can't respond to the higher bid. Those auction houses that want all lots open to 4am are losing my business. I am more than happy to give my business to those like Heritage who close lots with no bids for 30 minutes or by live auction. It is not worth my time to sit around waiting to see if I get out bid.

Agree.

Hunt Auctions works like that too and I love it. I place early initial bids on the lots I'm interested in and then on the final night it's easy to manage my budget. As each lot closes, I know I either won it or I didn't, so then I can proceed to the next lot (or go to bed, having spent my budget.)

I couldn't just put max bids on all four or five lots and then get to sleep, because I couldn't afford to win them all.

and if you do get outbid
 

that outbid might just be at the hands of the "house". If you knew that - it might not feel that good.

"I am more than happy to give my business to those like Heritage who close lots with no bids for 30 minutes or by live auction. It is not worth my time to sit around waiting to see if I get out bid."

While I 100% agree that the 30 min. per lot rule is much better, I'm a little surprised that you'd state -- in a thread about shill bidding -- that you prefer to give your business to an AH whose rules state the consignor may bid on their own items and the AH itself reserves the right to bid on "undervalued" lots.

I for one would like to thank Leon for having the courage to keep this thread open.

I would imagine its not easy to stand TALL and not cave against the not so unwritten code of silence that these AH scoundrels pressure others into doing if they even think of breaking ranks.

When an auction house such as Goldin can take control over a supposed collectors site for the explicit purpose of self promotion and silencing critics all hobbyists should wonder why and have concern as members of GUU & GUC are finding out.

Its apparent that collusion is alive and well with all participants bottom line benefiting economically.

The lights have gone on again in the industry and rest assured the roaches are scurrying around looking for cover back in the darkness and I for one choose the light of day.

Ron Kosiewicz

Great post. If not for Leon's willingness, and I would say encouragement, for this topic to be thoroughly discussed, on what other forum could we do this?

I was just on another hobby forum site, reading a new post on this topic, and when I went back a few minutes later, that post had been deleted. Apparently, talking about this in the "wrong" way is not allowed in some venues...

To quote Voltaire: "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."