Since we don't have all the facts, are you suggesting we don't discuss it?

Completely agree; he & I had a nice PM yesterday and retain a good friendship. I clarified my post was in response to another in order to rebut its inference there was consignor/consignee wrongdoing. This terrible situation is indeed being handled with grace and class and hope all are made whole.

Hmmm, kinda reminds of something that had to do with bronze a couple of months ago. :rolleyes:

No, wasn't saying that.

Just saying don't make shit up that you don't know is true.

Supreme Court of message boards !

Oh, the irony.

With all the attention this theft is getting, I think there is a better than zero chance that the cards are already in a dumpster or at the bottom of Lake Erie. :(

Very well said.

I see what you're saying, the thief might be scared stiff.

On the other hand, how easy is it for someone, especially a thief, to throw away $2,000,000.00?

If the FBI is knocking on their door it might be a little easier. Let's all hope the cards are returned. Some close to the investigation still think it's possible they are, but no one knows right now.

If the FBI is knocking on their door it might be a little easier. Let's all hope the cards are returned. Some close to the investigation still think it's possible they are, but no one knows right now.

I'm not sure with the specific lots that we are dealing with, outside of the Cobb. But I would imagine most of the cards, would be able to be cracked and resubmitted, if the thief was smart and willing to bide their time.

The Cobb, there's no way of getting around it. It's such a rare issue, and that one looks so unique I think it would be borderline impossible to crack, reslab and sell anytime soon.

I would think a decade ago this would have been solved in a couple days as the suspect list can't really be more than a small handful of employees. However, in the current day and time, getting an arrest requires 250 pages of evidence and a signed letter from the heads of every major police department within a tri-state area...then you are released with no bail within 2 hours.

Seems like I would not need Columbo to find which minimum wage employee was searching incoming packages and had no idea of the magnitude of his lackluster effort of a heist. I doubt they are dumped or burned as this level of genius would most likely think this was a future come up when the heat blows over. I think these are well hidden at a different location for a future plan that does not currently exist.

These cases are not solved by the perp fessing up, these guys can never keep the bragging silent on something like this. You have to try to break family and friends to see who he/her told.

I don't think it would be hard to sit on the cards if you did steal them. I have an entire safe full of cards at my house and nobody knows about it. If I don't need the money today, I could wait five, ten or even fifteen years and have them regraded two or three times in between.

Your referenced methodology would eventually be uncovered, similar to a decades long art forgery scheme, played out in the 2020 documentary ‘Made You Look’.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11994750/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Maybe a new pedigree on your holder… “MEMORY LANE HEIST “ ????

.." The Best Western Find " ?

..

This made me laugh! But, again, it's the more prestigious Best Western PLUS.

Someone should create a poll for what happens to the actual cards:

1)returned and all is back to normal
2) trashed
3) in a competitor's auction next month :D
ETC

This was a documentary about fake art being passed as real art. There was a recent situation with signed T206 cards that is more similar to the art scheme. The downfall of the scheme was that the perpetrator didn't wait long enough to sign and sell the secondhand cards they purchased. They were in a rush to sell and it made it easier for people to find the completed auctions of the T206s while they were still unsigned, which made it easy to determine they weren't authentic after the fact.

Correct me if wrong, doesn’t law enforcement have facial recognition programs which can easily show the identities of people and even when only half the face is shown? Maybe law enforcement are looking at two days of videos of everyone that entered the area of where the box was located. Hopefully the video didn’t get erased or recorded over by Best Western BEST.

You've materially lost nothing you weren't 100% compensated for. You sold something (collectible, stock, index fund etc) at a price you were willing to accept. That money is still fully yours. Sure it's disappointing, but people sell things to finance other things every day. Sometime's it works out, sometimes stuff beyond their control happens that make the expected purchase no longer possible.

Stuff can go missing for a long time and eventually turn up.

https://www.linns.com/news/us-stamps...use-cover.html

I have a couple items that were essentially unseen/unrecognized for decades.
Not from being stolen, but just vanishing into collections. then maybe on to other collectors or dealers who didn't know their importance. (Not in the league of the above cover though. )

Sad that the wild conjecture of some has pushed things this far.

This response to which you’ve replied was based on a misinterpretation. We had a nice PM yesterday and retain a good friendship. I clarified my post was in response to another in order to rebut its inference there was consignor/consignee wrongdoing. This terrible situation is indeed being handled with grace and class and hope all are made whole.

what an unfortunate situation.

Misinterpretation. It was nice PM yesterday and retain a good friendship, clarifying my post was in response to another in order to rebut its inference there was consignor/consignee wrongdoing. This terrible situation is indeed being handled with grace and class and hope all are made whole.

Also, mental note to remind the same people saying don’t rush to judgment to do the same when other institutions are involved. Favoritism abounds. Some of the same people saying wait for all the facts have no issue throwing other companies under the bus based on less. A company poorly shipped items and then continued an auction of items it no longer possessed. Those facts are undisputed and create plenty of ground for a reasonable discussion.

I have yet to meet a person in life that does not use favoritism, not a single one.

Agree. And the key is to recognize it and then not be too judgmental of others when their opinion differs on your selected favorite. Instead, it seems like some feel free to cast stones, but if you do the same to their selected favorite there’s a sudden call for order. Maybe for good reason, but if pwcc did what happened here my god the hounds would be out.

once at the National there was this famous '52 Mantle card on display so I asked if I could get a picture with it and the security guard kept a close watch on it/me lol
https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=33714

Nice! The amazing eye appeal psa 7st!


..oh Mean sgc 9.5 , sharp

"I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another, and I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!"

Tom Lehrer

:D

There’s only two kinds of people I don’t like. Those that don’t respect other cultures and the Dutch. - Austin Powers

Surprised this comment was overlooked with no responses. I thought it was one of the most interesting comments in this whole debacle. For those of you who agree that it was okay to continue auctions on the stolen cards, do you also agree that it may have been to the detriment of other consignors as illustrated in the highlighted section above?

If your consignment could have netted an extra 5-10k+ had a bidder concentrated on your lot instead of chasing a stolen lot, would you have been happy?

M.ike P.ugeda

Why haven't they released a list of the stolen items yet...or have I missed that? I think it would help for people to keep an eye out for them.

Also I didnt infer anything in my prior post except that I felt it was a target theft and law enforcement might have let it run to help aid them in eliminating or possibly incriminating possible suspects...that would include a long list of people...I am sorry if someone read into that incorrectly

I think a much bigger detriment would've been the mysterious removal of $2m of the best cards. Can you imagine, as a bidder, continuing to bid in an auction where that happened?

What about the damage to consignors from potentially have to dispute valuations on many of the scarcer items? All that avoided.

a few quick thoughts
 

First, once the auction house no longer has the item, they need to immediately STOP accepting bids and STOP trying to sell it. Existing bids should be voided. Update the listing with NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, and mention on the front page of the auction exactly what has happened. To continue to try to sell something they don't have is misleading.

Next, communicate directly with each of the consignors of the items that aren't available about what has occurred; and with their insurance company, immediately.

Keep law enforcement, the insurance folks, and the consignors, informed of updates as they are available.

Again, you can't sell something you don't have, and it's wrong to go through the steps involved with the auction when the item is gone.

And finally, contemplate about what happened, how it happened, and what changes can be done to minimize it happening again; then implement those changes.

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards
I think a much bigger detriment would've been the mysterious removal of $2m of the best cards. Can you imagine, as a bidder, continuing to bid in an auction where that happened?

If you’re replying to me, of course I can…I would, as long as the cards I wanted were still available. What percentage of bidders do you think are bidding on $25-50k cards? I would think it’s small.

M.ike P.ugeda

What are your thoughts on other consignors who potentially lost $$$ on their consignments in the scenario highlighted in my previous post? Innocent bystanders?

M.ike P.ugeda

If that happened, obviously it's unfortunate. No winning options here for ML.

National Brotherhood Week. Great song. Adam, you're the first person I know other than my brother and me who can quote Tom Lehrer.

I was responding to the idea of consignors who weren't directly affected by the theft being negatively impacted by the continuation of the auction of the items that were stolen.

I really think there were only two options. Cancel the auction entirely, or let it run like they did. Any half measure would've been an abject disaster.

You can do whatever you want if
You have cleared it with the pontiff

Best part is......99% of these posters haven't sniffed 2 million bucks worth of cards, let alone would they know what do if they were stolen.

Supreme Court of baseball card message boards

I haven't committed murder either, but I know it's wrong.

The Vatican Rag. :)

One of my favorites is Oedipus Rex

Yes he loved his mother like no other.
His daughter was his sister and his son was his brother.
One thing on which you can depend is,
He sure knew who a boy's best friend is!

When he found what he had done,
He tore his eyes out one by one.
A tragic end to a loyal son
Who loved his mother.

And as a chemist, I always loved The Elements.

Tried to get caught up with all this...

This may be one of the craziest hobby stories I have ever heard!

I can't imagine sending something like that to a Best Western...even with the "PLUS"!:D

I hope the cards are found mainly because the thought of cards as significant as the ones taken could be lost forever makes me incredibly sad!

Such an underrated genius. I can quote a bunch of his stuff, but this one seems just as pertinent today as it was in 1966...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRLON3ddZIw

I know that under 1% of people here will care, but when you see a rare mention of Tom Lehrer, you just gotta post something!

+1 to Tom Lehrer. His material was brilliant. I can almost imagine him at the piano, singing about this crazy hobby.

Gabrinus touched upon this in post #37, and I picked up upon his thoughts in post #51. Here is what I wrote almost 500 posts ago:


Originally Posted by gabrinus View Post
Holy shit that sucks...I understand the insurance angle but that money could have gone to other cards in the auction...Jerry


Definitely a great point...not only did this hurt the winning bidders of the missing cards, some of whom perhaps would have shifted their bidding money to other non-stolen lots, but the consigners of some non-stolen cards in the auction perhaps could have had the action on their lots potentially minimized because of the decision to keep the stolen auction lots open.

Condolences to all involved, and just a sucky situation all around that, with some common sense precautions, probably could have been avoided in the first place.


brianp(arker)-beme (quoting brianp(arker)-beme) - man, this thread has a lot of words!

Stupid plebes. Don't they realize that the value of their Internet opinions is directly proportional to their net worth?

I wondered if anyone caught that. Now we’re starting a class war, the sniffers vs the never-have-sniffed.

The 1 per-scent discharging their snottiness on opinions of others.

As an Italian, does my Roman nose permit heightened sniffing capacity, beyond my otherwise economically limited olfactory abilities?

I had economically limited olfactory abilities, but discovered that blowing my nose on a regular basis did wonders for my bank account.

Brian (fiduciary for fiduciants everywhere)

Weren’t most of those King maker cards originally owned by children?

Not to get off topic, but most of these cards in general, were owned by children, but I understand the point your making.

To address what was posted a few posts above, I'm very much out of my element when it comes to things dealing with auction houses and shows. Even moreso with the dollar amounts being discussed. I have not passed judgement, because it's quite simply not my place to pass judgement.

However just because I or someone else will never sniff the million dollar cards, doesn't mean that their opinion automatically becomes invalidated.

I wouldn't have been stuck with 3 non-stolen high dollar cards, that's for sure.

:D yeah, silly commoners.

Stop making so much sence. I was actually at the counter when the detectives were questioning the guy about the "Lost Package" & "reviewing Video". I never realized this was what they were discussing. I should have been more assertive, listened in more attentively and asked questions.

EVERYONE was able to keep this a SECRET for 2-3 Weeks. That was really helpful. That's a crime or at least a crying shame in itself. You know I woulda been flapping my gums.:) What was the big secret? So they could pull off the fake auction? For insurance? For Law Enforcement, for the cosigners. Lets do it for "Duty & Humanity". That's Lame AF, IMHO.

We would like a list of all the cards that were involved right now:D:D:D

Why aren't the images of the cards posted? That would limit the options of the thief,

My only guess is because the investigation is still ongoing? But I truly don't have much of a clue either. Maybe someone can shed light on the situation.

+1

How were you stuck with 3 cards?

Isn't it about time ML issued some kind of public statement about the theft and ongoing investigations. The public has a right to know, especially Net54.

I want to hear this.

What for? This will have no impact on their business. The collecting community as a whole along with the bidders and consigners, don’t care they’re going to continue to do business with them. Most are cool with them continuing the auction of the lots that were stolen even after they no longer had possession of them to get a comp for insurance purposes. This will all blow over like all the other scandals have over the years.

I imagine they have communicated with all affected parties. So why do they need to make a public statement?

I would think law enforcement is who should make a statement...list the card stolen and seek the publics help in keeping an eye out for the cards since it apparently has not been solved

However the only opinion which matters is what their attorneys and Insurance companies told them to do. Anything else just conjecture and "what if" scenarios with the peanut gallery trying score whatever points with whomever. Again, to be in their situation, would make a lot of people act differently as it could BK their whole operation

I understand what your saying, and yes I get the point that you're making. I'm not saying this was some sort of harebrained inside job or the likes. I'm not trying to score points with anyone. I feel bad for the collectors that are missing out on cards they thought they won, and even worse from the perspective that some of these cards might never see the light of day again.

Yes I cannot believe people who are not multi-millionaires also have opinions and some of those filthy poor people are against hosting fraudulent auctions. The audacity of those disgusting poors! Of course I concur that only the top .5% or so should ever have an opinion permissible to be expressed in a public place. Hopefully nobody richer than you comes along to disagree.

Do you have a home health care aid standing by to remind you to breathe? Agian as a plebian, you can't assume that legally they were fraudulent auctions, as the auction house owns the property. To put in print, May open yourself up for libel.

You might want to check the dictionary before you make those insults. Mirriam-Webster attached, but you may use any dictionary you like.

Is running an auction for cards you don't have and cannot provide to winners deceitful? Of course it is.

Is running an auction for cards which you do not have and cannot produce without ever telling anyone you don't have them deceiving or misrepresenting things? Obviously it is.

Is auctioning cards that you do not have as if you have them 'not what it seems or is represented to be'? Obviously that is the case.


This is why everyone else has argued that it is okay to do this, instead of trying to completely deny it. Please, file suit! I cannot wait.

You're right, if there's great stuff to bid on, people will continue to bid, but will potential consignors feel comfortable consigning?

Ph.il Gr0dsky

No doubt. I think I even posted that a few days ago. I doubt there will be a loss of business for the company.

What should stick is that now it behooves anyone who consigns to try to establish a value (for insurance purposes, not a guarantee of what the items will sell for) with the auction house prior to sending them your stuff. And an inquiry might be made to see if the items consigned will be away from the premises at any time and what that looks like.

I hate that this is the way I said above but it’s 100% factual. People will continue Running cover and speaking nothing but positive about parts of the industry because they feel someday they are gonna need them…there is always a motive behind it. When it comes down to it people who say it’s about the cards they’re sadly wrong. It’s about the money and people's greedy tail, it’s always about the money and their selfish selves. The Almighty dollar is the most important thing. People are just afraid to talk because they think it’s gonna lower the price of their cards or they’re not gonna get treated fairly when they need to liquidate them through an auction house.

Cards
 

Obviously a tough situation…I’m sure that the consigner of the “missing cards” would much rather see them paid for and owned by a collector / member of the hobby than disposed of. For all of us, I hope that they show up.

For the love of God, someone please put this horse out of it's misery!!