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-   -   Will this stock market madness affect cards? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=279823)

nolemmings 04-02-2020 12:44 PM

"This is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic," Trump said at a press conference with his coronavirus task force. "All you had to do was look at other countries."

OK, then why did you hold rallies on January 9, 14, 28 and 30; February 10, 19, 20, 21 and 28? Nine rallies in 50 days, for a "candidate" who is unopposed. Nine separate dates and places you gathered 10,000 or whatever people standing shoulder to shoulder at a time when you now admit a highly contagious disease was on its way, and as of January 20, was confirmed to be here. Spouting how the democrats and media were blowing it out of proportion to make you look bad--and now you tell us 200,000 could very well die, maybe more. Telling governors that you're not a shipping clerk,and letting them bid against each other, other countries and even FEMA for supplies--that great old free market system on display.

The Divided States of America--led by the greatest patriot to ever take a breath, and who surely can do no wrong--just ask him.

jhs5120 04-02-2020 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman (Post 1967229)
This is a golden opportunity for you to show at least one of those sound clips was taken out of context by showing the longer clip and facts showing that it is misleading. I’ll wait patiently.

The very first clip is dated February 2nd - when there were 8 confirmed cases in the country. The press conference took place in China Town to celebrate the Lunar New Year and address reports of discrimination towards Asian-Americans. I could not find the complete press conference, but below is the Press Release from the event: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/about/...ronavirus.page

“We are continuing to work closely with our partners at the CDC, State and federal government as the coronavirus situation evolves,” said Health Commissioner Dr. Oxiris Barbot. “If you have traveled to the area affected by the outbreak in the last 14 days and feel unwell, call your doctor or visit a clinic, and you will be cared for. Also, practice everyday precautions like you would during flu season — wash your hands frequently, and cover your mouth and nose when you sneeze. We remain grateful to all New Yorkers for their cooperation.”

If the implication from the highly edited video clip was that New York Health Officials weren't taking the matter seriously at the time, I would disagree.

This is the problem with fake news, edited videos and biased sources.

CharleyBrown 04-02-2020 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman (Post 1967229)
This is a golden opportunity for you to show at least one of those sound clips was taken out of context by showing the longer clip and facts showing that it is misleading. I’ll wait patiently.

Sure. The Nancy Pelosi comment on MSNBC was in San Francisco's Chinatown on February 24 outside the Golden Gate Fortune Cookie Factory. Her comments were not about the virus, specifically, but to discourage people from avoiding Chinatown. At the time, there were no known cases in Chinatown. In her speech to local business owners in the area, she acknowledged that there was concern that the U.S. would not be adequately prepared due to the $1.3 billion dollar cut to the CDC.

Her comments came 4 days before Donald Trump declared the coronavirus: "The Democrat's new hoax"... and approximately 2 weeks before Trump told Sean Hannity on March 4 that the flu was a bigger threat to public health than covid-19.

That said, the DeBlasio comments were moronic - he's done a pretty poor job handling this situation... I think most NYers, democrat or republican would agree to that.

The Bernie Sanders comment about not closing down the borders did not provide any context as to what he said. He said we should be listening to the scientists for the appropriate approach instead of using the virus to vilify immigrants.

Dr. Barbot's comments were all from early February (the first on Feb. 2). If you read anything about her response, the dept. of health was concerned about a late-season spike of flu that was popping up in NYC. NYC or anywhere in the U.S. for that matter had tests for covid-19, so there was no way to determine whether or not it had arrived in the U.S. Her comments were, like Pelosi's, to discourage avoiding Chinese-owned businesses.

Like I said... those videos are meant to manipulate. I don't care if they are targeting only Democrats or targeting only Republicans. They target one side and blast it out to their audience, not giving the full context of the statements. It's designed to drum up the emotions of the people viewing it, which leads to them using videos like this one to justify their hatred of the other side.

Ask yourself... Why didn't the video also show Republicans downplaying the virus?

Like Devin Nunes?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/it...mic-2020-03-15

Brian Kemp?

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...d-coronavirus/

Richard Burr?

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/coro...r-and-sen-burr

Kelly Loeffler?

https://twitter.com/KLoeffler/status...686595073?s=20

https://twitter.com/SenatorLoeffler/...19751905267714

How about this guy calling Fauci "the enemy"?

https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/stat...846090756?s=21

Shoeless Moe 04-02-2020 01:27 PM

Anyone else think Chris Cuomo is faking it?

I have not heard the guy cough once.

I cough taking a sh-t.

This guy "has the Virus" yet talks an hour straight without so much as a cough or sneeze. 3 days in a row since he's "had it."

CharleyBrown 04-02-2020 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967257)
Anyone else think Chris Cuomo is faking it?

I have not heard the guy cough once.

I cough taking a sh-t.

This guy "has the Virus" yet talks an hour straight without so much as a cough or sneeze. 3 days in a row since he's "had it."

No and I hope you aren't serious with this comment.

nolemmings 04-02-2020 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967257)
Anyone else think Chris Cuomo is faking it?

I have not heard the guy cough once.

I cough taking a sh-t.

This guy "has the Virus" yet talks an hour straight without so much as a cough or sneeze. 3 days in a row since he's "had it."

Then you've got a lot of coughing ahead of you, because you're completely full of shit.

bnorth 04-02-2020 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporal Lance Boil (Post 1967192)
And wishing my not-so-far away Canadian neighbor to North good health and safety!

+1 to all our Canadian members, I have had great interactions with many of them including Dale. Stay safe and happy collecting.:)

Shoeless Moe 04-02-2020 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings (Post 1967261)
Then you've got a lot of coughing ahead of you, because you're completely full of shit.

the tribe has spoken

itjclarke 04-02-2020 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967257)
Anyone else think Chris Cuomo is faking it?

I have not heard the guy cough once.

I cough taking a sh-t.

This guy "has the Virus" yet talks an hour straight without so much as a cough or sneeze. 3 days in a row since he's "had it."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967279)
the tribe has spoken

3 of the 4 Brooklyn Nets, including Kevin Durant were asymptomatic when they tested positive. Did you miss this?? Or the fact that it’s been reported throughout that many may have it and not know, thus are at greater threat of spreading it to be people who can least afford to contract it?

There’s a reason I’m not going to visit my 83 year old dad or 80 year old mom right now.

Btw- are you still calling for all to go back to work now, or before Easter? Or is it now a “war” and people should now stay inside?

itjclarke 04-02-2020 02:59 PM

To the folks who think the GOP would have been supportive of Hillary, I think Mitch McConnell would strongly beg to differ. 2010 on, he openly boasted about blocking Obama legislation, and a Supreme Court nominee. Let’s please not forget that.

Let’s also not forget a circa 2010 rallying cry against ACA was to save grandma from the death panels. Curious where those party “family values” have gone when grandma is now just in overtime or extra innings.

nolemmings 04-02-2020 04:59 PM

Fwiw
 
Step outta line, the man come, and take you away:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/polit...ved/index.html

Shoeless Moe 04-02-2020 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itjclarke (Post 1967291)
3 of the 4 Brooklyn Nets, including Kevin Durant were asymptomatic when they tested positive. Did you miss this?? Or the fact that it’s been reported throughout that many may have it and not know, thus are at greater threat of spreading it to be people who can least afford to contract it?

There’s a reason I’m not going to visit my 83 year old dad or 80 year old mom right now.

Btw- are you still calling for all to go back to work now, or before Easter? Or is it now a “war” and people should now stay inside?

1st I don't follow basketball, when did the Nets move to Brooklyn.....ah skip it, I don't care.

As for back to work before Easter, never said that, I said "soon". Still feel that way, very soon. President said April 30, I'm good with that. He and his team are doing an outstanding job, so I'm good with their decisions so far. He always has one eye on the economy, unlike Hillary who would not have, but she lost so thank God we don't have that nightmare going on now.

Cliff Bowman 04-02-2020 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967334)
President and his team are doing an outstanding job, so I'm good with their decisions so far. He always has one eye on the economy, unlike Hillary would not have, but she lost so thank God we don't have that nightmare going on now.

I hope Shoeless Moe lives in a battleground state :D.

Shoeless Moe 04-02-2020 07:38 PM

I do like Jared Polis (CO) & Andrew Cuomo (NY)



...............................................eve n if his brother might be faking.

MULLINS5 04-02-2020 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gawaintheknight (Post 1967231)
Nice try, but I'm old enough to remember the Obama administration and that's not how it went at all. I'm also old enough to remember the 2016 election when Republicans were talking about impeaching her the day after she was sworn in.

Ted

I hope you are old enough to remember eleven years ago.

itjclarke 04-02-2020 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967334)
1st I don't follow basketball, when did the Nets move to Brooklyn.....ah skip it, I don't care.

As for back to work before Easter, never said that, I said "soon". Still feel that way, very soon. President said April 30, I'm good with that. He and his team are doing an outstanding job, so I'm good with their decisions so far. He always has one eye on the economy, unlike Hillary who would not have, but she lost so thank God we don't have that nightmare going on now.

My point is not about basketball but you seem a little dense, hopefully that's all part of your shtick and not real. If 75% of this one group which tested positive did not feel symptoms, then maybe several others out there are also positive but asymptomatic.. and then maybe a guy who's positive won't cough for you on camera. If he coughed, you'd call him out for faking it anyway. Maybe there's also even more merit to keeping people distanced like Anthony Fauci (by far the smartest and most experienced of Trump's "team") has been saying since this began, and then for heeding his advice for as long as they feel is necessary.

I hope, but highly doubt we will have normality by April 30, since the models show the virus's spread to be gaining momentum not slowing. Once the curve does flatten or ideally goes down, you'll probably need to add at least a 2-3 weeks of additional "shelter in place" to better ensure we do not allow it to reverse course and come back. April 30 is just an arbitrary date, which effectively buys more time for them to further asses and reassess a dynamic situation. Regardless, by then I'm guessing your POV will mirror whatever the Pres has decided to tweet or say in press conferences, as it has over the past few weeks. "it's like the flu, people die from the flu" and "it will blow over".. oh no, now "it's a war", but "it's no one's fault". Like needing directions but getting--- Keep walking straight... stop! turn around... no turn left.. turn right.. jump!

Would be nice if people would try stay of the much steadier course that has been recommended by people who've dedicated their entire professional lives to medicine and to preparing for situations like this. Thankfully Trump has at least one on his team.

BTW-- some old guy in overtime just survived the virus! Looks like he's now made it into double, maybe even triple overtime. This guy is an actual vet, who's generation helped win WWII, allowing you to puff your chest out about how America beat those Japs. I don't suspect you'll ever back track and admit you care about these old folks in overtime, but hope you at least appreciate that he was actually there to help win the war you so often seem to reference.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9441956.html

itjclarke 04-02-2020 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings (Post 1967325)
Step outta line, the man come, and take you away:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/polit...ved/index.html

Crazy story, and only a day after the secretary of defense downplayed the request, and said they would not need to quarantine. Will be interesting to see how this story plays out (and how it’s reported by different outlets)

gawaintheknight 04-03-2020 05:55 AM

Well, I can remember ten years ago:

The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.

-Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, quoted in National Journal, November 4, 2010

Ted

Quote:

Originally Posted by MULLINS5 (Post 1967406)
I hope you are old enough to remember eleven years ago.


carlsonjok 04-03-2020 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MULLINS5 (Post 1967406)
I hope you are old enough to remember eleven years ago.

I do.

McConnell “wanted everyone to hold the fort,” one Republican senator, George Voinovich of Ohio, later told the journalist Michael Grunwald in his book The New New Deal: The Hidden Story of Change in the Obama Era. “All he cared about was making sure Obama could never have a clean victory.”

In the House, where the stimulus bill would ultimately pass without a single Republican vote, Representative Mike Pence of Indiana, then chair of the GOP conference, claimed that "the Democrat bill won't stimulate anything but more government and more debt.” The stimulus bill would ultimately pass the Senate with three Republican votes. “Yesterday the Senate cast one of the most expensive votes in history,” McConnell said. “Americans are wondering how we’re going to pay for all this.”
From here.

SAllen2556 04-03-2020 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gawaintheknight (Post 1967448)
Well, I can remember ten years ago:

The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.

-Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, quoted in National Journal, November 4, 2010

Ted


Is your name really Ted Knight? That's cool, I loved you in Caddyshack, but what's the point of these political posts? You, like others, seem very passionate, but you don't actually think you're going to change anyone's mind about anything political do you? Those days are long gone.

There sure is a lot of spittin' in the wind going on here.

To the original topic at hand - I would be curious how a guy like Greg Morris is doing on ebay. He seems really honest and he sells lots of "regular" cards. I would think his sales would be a good barometer of how things are going today and in the future.

bnorth 04-03-2020 08:19 AM

On a good note even though several of the posts in this thread are bat $hit crazy they are normal compared to another forum I am on.

I am a member of a forum that has sections for almost every subject imaginable. There is a "unexplained mysteries and paranormal" section. If you don't take it seriously it is some of the best humor you could imagine.

They have the typical bigfoot, dogman, and ufo/alien wackadoodles. This virus has brought the conspiracy theorists out of the woodwork. A sane person couldn't make up the stuff they are saying is real. Cliff notes, this is a engineered virus to control the world and our economy will never recover.

Enjoy. https://www.city-data.com/forum/unex...es-paranormal/

gawaintheknight 04-03-2020 11:57 AM

I mean, you can think he's doing an outstanding job, but I keep seeing stories like this and thinking "If what's going on right now had been presented to a book editor as fiction three years ago it would have been rejected for being too heavy-handed and unbelievable."

https://us.yahoo.com/news/trump-admi...233508840.html

Ted

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967334)
1st I don't follow basketball, when did the Nets move to Brooklyn.....ah skip it, I don't care.

As for back to work before Easter, never said that, I said "soon". Still feel that way, very soon. President said April 30, I'm good with that. He and his team are doing an outstanding job, so I'm good with their decisions so far. He always has one eye on the economy, unlike Hillary who would not have, but she lost so thank God we don't have that nightmare going on now.


Cliff Bowman 04-03-2020 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gawaintheknight (Post 1967540)
I mean, you can think he's doing an outstanding job, but I keep seeing stories like this and thinking "If what's going on right now had been presented to a book editor as fiction three years ago it would have been rejected for being too heavy-handed and unbelievable."

https://us.yahoo.com/news/trump-admi...233508840.html

Ted

We get it, you think Agent Orange sucks. I don’t know why this thread hasn’t been locked and I don’t know why you haven’t been told to post your full name if you are going to post an opinion of a person or a company.

nolemmings 04-03-2020 12:29 PM

Whew, that was close
 
Not to worry, Jared is now taking charge.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nt/2938648001/
Glad he could take time away from solving that Middle East thing and straightening out the VA, among his many other tasks.
Just another thing to thank Lord Trump for-- streamlining government and ridding us of those lifelong bloodsuckers who were trained in useless fields that provided no benefit and giving us the ever so qualified Jared Kushner, among other "only the best", to help us in our need.
Could someone point me to the Fox news coverage of Jared's involvement? I could use a pep talk and of course can find nothing truthful in that pesky mainstream media.

Shoeless Moe 04-03-2020 12:37 PM

It's too bad I can't call my cable company and have CNN, MSNBC & Fox News removed from my cable package. Would like to do to them what they have done to many, put out of work.


But since they all just spew the same garbage shutting all 3 down for now for good, I know what they are going to say without even having to watch, nothing but The Office, King of Queens, Seinfeld, and movies for me from here on out.


Wake me up with this virus is over.

nolemmings 04-03-2020 01:25 PM

Who knew?
 
Quote:

"Nobody knew there'd be a pandemic or an epidemic of this proportion," Trump said March 19 in comments in the Rose Garden. "Nobody has ever seen anything like this before." The crisis is "an unforeseen problem" that "came out of nowhere," Trump said on March 6. "We're having to fix a problem that, four weeks ago, nobody ever thought would be a problem," he said on March 11. "It's something that nobody expected," he said again on March 14. "Nobody would have ever thought a thing like this could have happened," he added on March 26th.
this is from CNN, so of course I'm sure it's twisted
Quote:

Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar and Tim Morrison, then a special assistant to the President and senior director for weapons of mass destruction and biodefense on the National Security Council, made the comments at the BioDefense Summit in April 2019.
"Of course, the thing that people ask: 'What keeps you most up at night in the biodefense world?' Pandemic flu, of course. I think everyone in this room probably shares that concern," Azar said, before listing off efforts to mitigate the impact of flu outbreaks
Of course there are many other instances of what was known, suggested, recommended and done the past couple of years on this subject, but this is just something else to keep in mind when you hear, at least twice a day from now until election, that the present situation was totally unforeseeable and "nobody would have ever thought it could happen".

Shoeless Moe 04-03-2020 03:53 PM

Biden supporter
 
2 Attachment(s)
Jennifer Anniston.


Now her I could get behind.

MULLINS5 04-03-2020 04:30 PM

The best way to gauge the stock market as a whole is to look at WWE Stock. If that one stock is performing well, the entire market is strong.

Republicaninmass 04-03-2020 04:47 PM

Only if you keep buying to prop it up

Shoeless Moe 04-03-2020 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MULLINS5 (Post 1967624)
The best way to gauge the stock market as a whole is to look at WWE Stock. If that one stock is performing well, the entire market is strong.

Vince McMahon WWE?

Dpeck100 04-03-2020 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967632)
Vince McMahon WWE?

He is just talking smack.

Thankfully the wrestling card market is incredibly strong so far through this. Shockingly strong.

WWE is in tough shape with Wrestlemania being canceled in Tampa and being forced to be taped with no audience.

Shoeless Moe 04-03-2020 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1967643)
He is just talking smack.

Thankfully the wrestling card market is incredibly strong so far through this. Shockingly strong.

WWE is in tough shape with Wrestlemania being canceled in Tampa and being forced to be taped with no audience.

That is going to be very odd. I think they should postpone until Fall.

That's one sport where the performers feed off the fans.

Dpeck100 04-03-2020 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967655)
That is going to be very odd. I think they should postpone until Fall.

That's one sport where the performers feed off the fans.


I have tuned in briefly to the shows the past few weeks with no fans and it is almost unwatchable. I think it is a cash flow issue where they literately have no choice.

People are dying for some entertainment hence the explosion of Tiger King so they will get viewers but my expectations are low. I pay the $9.99 a month for the Network and barely use it so I can tune in for no additional cost. They are selling the rights through other platforms but I find it hard to believe it will be a hot ticket.

Maybe they will be very creative and it will be a pleasant surprise.

ullmandds 04-04-2020 10:19 AM

i happened to see some of that WWE last night...with noone there...it was bizarre to see the wrestlers hamming it up...with noone there!!!!! It's been decades since I've watched wrestling...it will likely be decades more before I watch again!!!

Leon 04-04-2020 12:18 PM

Well, one little thread off the tracks isn't that bad. Keep it clean....

Shoeless Moe 04-04-2020 12:32 PM

The best wrestling these days is watching YouTube Documentaries.

So many good ones out there about the good old days of wrestling and their personal lives, seems like each wrestler had quite the interesting ride, and not many make it out of their 40's.


Also, on Vice TV the Series "Dark Side of the Ring" is tremendous.

Dpeck100 04-04-2020 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967811)
The best wrestling these days is watching YouTube Documentaries.

So many good ones out there about the good old days of wrestling and their personal lives, seems like each wrestler had quite the interesting ride, and not many make it out of their 40's.


Also, on Vice TV the Series "Dark Side of the Ring" is tremendous.


For the most part I just watch Youtube to get my fix.

The Dark Side of the Ring is great. I watched everyone last year and tuned in to the Benoit and New Jack episodes for this season. New Jack was nuts. He wrestled in Orlando for the local promotion I go see a few years before I got involved and that dude is just nuts.

Dpeck100 04-04-2020 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1967775)
i happened to see some of that WWE last night...with noone there...it was bizarre to see the wrestlers hamming it up...with noone there!!!!! It's been decades since I've watched wrestling...it will likely be decades more before I watch again!!!

Just watch this about then times in a row and you will be good. Haha

Brody was amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqb7nihtp38


Hulk Vs. Andre never gets old.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUj9XhWVl0


It is amazing there was a stock market crash in 87 and because my parents didn't own stocks it was like nothing happened. Every penny I earned from mowing yards went to the 87 baseball cards. A year and a half later the market was at new highs. Incredible the obstacles this country has been through.

Mark17 04-04-2020 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1967815)
It is amazing there was a stock market crash in 87 and because my parents didn't own stocks it was like nothing happened. Every penny I earned from mowing yards went to the 87 baseball cards. A year and a half later the market was at new highs. Incredible the obstacles this country has been through.

Your 1987 cards probably plummeted far worse than the stock market.

It's really tough to know what to do, financially. Everyone thought gold and other precious metals were the best hedge in a national crisis, but they are down now, too. Silver dropped from 18.00 an ounce to below 12.00 (briefly.)

I've always believed in quality, single family rental homes, but you need a cash set-aside, for stretches where the renters can't pay the rent, and unexpected maintenance.

And once this crisis is over, I'll be making a habit of getting a few extra bottles of shampoo, bars of soap, toothpaste, and yes, TP when I do my general shopping, to build up a nice supply.

As to cards..... they aren't a necessity, unlike rental property (people need to live somewhere,) so I think prices will come down a bit but not bottom out. Some will sell for liquidity concerns, but many will not be too impacted by the crisis and will feel little pressure to sell.

Dpeck100 04-04-2020 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17 (Post 1967864)
Your 1987 cards probably plummeted far worse than the stock market.

It's really tough to know what to do, financially. Everyone thought gold and other precious metals were the best hedge in a national crisis, but they are down now, too. Silver dropped from 18.00 an ounce to below 12.00 (briefly.)

I've always believed in quality, single family rental homes, but you need a cash set-aside, for stretches where the renters can't pay the rent, and unexpected maintenance.

And once this crisis is over, I'll be making a habit of getting a few extra bottles of shampoo, bars of soap, toothpaste, and yes, TP when I do my general shopping, to build up a nice supply.

As to cards..... they aren't a necessity, unlike rental property (people need to live somewhere,) so I think prices will come down a bit but not bottom out. Some will sell for liquidity concerns, but many will not be too impacted by the crisis and will feel little pressure to sell.



I don't recall. I never felt like when I was chasing cards in 87 they got any cheaper heading into 88. Maybe they did and I just don't recall because my thirst for cards never waned.


My buddy Gregg just sold his signed 83 Inoki for $2,100 direct today. I know the buyer and his job is safe. The real issue is job security. Those that have it are going to be more willing to keep spending and those that don't won't. I had my best commission month in 25 months in March and my production was the highest in the first three months of the year in my 16 year career. With asset values down the next three months will be much lower but we shall see how things play out. That said a lot of people who are impacted in the service industry for example were never in a position to buy cards or make an impact in the hobby.

The length of the shutdown is what everything hinges on. Time will tell.

The big money cards are generally bought by people who have deep enough pockets where there will be no issue what so ever. I do think the very low end could be impacted if this lasts much longer as their discretionary income is quite vulnerable.

Longer term when the economy recovers the addiction known as collecting trading cards will be as strong as ever.

japhi 04-05-2020 09:16 AM

No idea what will happen with cards but the next 4 weeks are going to be brutal. We are really only 3 weeks into layoffs and 6mm people have hit the dole, mostly front line workers. Next shoe to drop is workers who service these industries, including a significant amount of high paying jobs. Basically millions of layoffs each week for the next 6-12 weeks.

I also don’t see a quick turn around. A lot of these jobs aren’t coming back, corporations are going to have to right size. I suspect we see short term UE in the 20% range, mid term around 10% and it will take years to get back to full employment.

I am also betting that spending habits change. A lot of people are about to learn how risky it is to live cheque to cheque. Consumerism was out of control the past decade. Here in Canada we are bailing out travellers that don’t have the funds to extend their stays overseas for an extra few weeks due to flight changes. Who goes away on a vacation with no extra money in the bank? Apparently lots of people think it’s reasonable to spend your last dollars on a trip to Mexico - these people are going to get wiped out.

irv 04-05-2020 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by japhi (Post 1968075)
No idea what will happen with cards but the next 4 weeks are going to be brutal. We are really only 3 weeks into layoffs and 6mm people have hit the dole, mostly front line workers. Next shoe to drop is workers who service these industries, including a significant amount of high paying jobs. Basically millions of layoffs each week for the next 6-12 weeks.

I also don’t see a quick turn around. A lot of these jobs aren’t coming back, corporations are going to have to right size. I suspect we see short term UE in the 20% range, mid term around 10% and it will take years to get back to full employment.

I am also betting that spending habits change. A lot of people are about to learn how risky it is to live cheque to cheque. Consumerism was out of control the past decade. Here in Canada we are bailing out travellers that don’t have the funds to extend their stays overseas for an extra few weeks due to flight changes. Who goes away on a vacation with no extra money in the bank? Apparently lots of people think it’s reasonable to spend your last dollars on a trip to Mexico - these people are going to get wiped out.

It's amazing how many people live pay cheque to pay cheque but have all the latest greatest stuff one could imagine.

Not a nickle to rub against the other one but guaranteed they are going to get the next best iphone, or whatever it is when it comes out.

Not sure why we continue to cater/help these people out when they are too stupid/ignorant to know that having some savings is a good idea. :confused:

CharleyBrown 04-05-2020 10:07 AM

Not all people that don't have savings spend it in such a way. There are countless others that have to live cheque to cheque without taking trips or buying the latest device. In fact, the number of people that spend it irresponsibly are few and far between. How does government distinguish between those that are trying to make an honest living in a system that is designed to exploit them vs those taking advantage? They can't; so the moral thing to do is to help all and recognize some will cheat.

In fact, the misdeeds of the most wealthy and corporations costs governments far more than the average poor person needing government assistance.

If you're up for a good, non-partisan read during this period of quarantine, I suggest the book Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging by Sebastian Junger.


Quote:

Originally Posted by irv (Post 1968080)
It's amazing how many people live pay cheque to pay cheque but have all the latest greatest stuff one could imagine.

Not a nickle to rub against the other one but guaranteed they are going to get the next best iphone, or whatever it is when it comes out.

Not sure why we continue to cater/help these people out when they are too stupid/ignorant to know that having some savings is a good idea. :confused:


irv 04-05-2020 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharleyBrown (Post 1968091)
Not all people that don't have savings spend it in such a way. There are countless others that have to live cheque to cheque without taking trips or buying the latest device. In fact, the number of people that spend it irresponsibly are few and far between. How does government distinguish between those that are trying to make an honest living in a system that is designed to exploit them vs those taking advantage? They can't; so the moral thing to do is to help all and recognize some will cheat.

In fact, the misdeeds of the most wealthy and corporations costs governments far more than the average poor person needing government assistance.

If you're up for a good, non-partisan read during this period of quarantine, I suggest the book Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging by Sebastian Junger.

I didn't say everyone, I said those that take these vacations and have everything under sun who don't save.

Of course many people are struggling to make ends meet, I am not ignorant to that fact. It just frustrates me when I hear/see the other side whining/complaining how they never have any money but have zero clue they are the reason for that.

I think the number of those people is greater than you think? I see/hear it in my relatively small city quite often so I can imagine what it is like in much bigger cities/metropolis's.

There are many T.V. shows and other information sources out there to help people curb their spending and get out of debt, but in order for many to do, like anything, they need to admit they have a spending/debt problem first.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/26/cons...ble-spots.html

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/why-...e-stay-in-debt

CharleyBrown 04-05-2020 01:08 PM

Dale,

I believe you when you say when you aren't talking about all those living paycheck to paycheck.

Regarding what I quoted.

Statistics say otherwise. As a people, we are more inclined to focus on those that a) cheat the system b) flaunt.

Yeah, those that live way beyond their means made their own bed, but let's not assume the majority of those living paycheck to paycheck do so because they live lavishly and don't save.

It's like the old facebook trope regarding people that abuse social services entitlements. "I saw this woman in front of me talking on her iPhone with a Gucci bag paying with food stamps." Sure, there are those that do that and they get lots of attention, but they are in the significant minority. Let me break it down.

If you look at the hard data, the number of "common" people scheming the system cost the states and federal government in the U.S. far less than the executives and those engaging in corporate fraud... and it's not even close. Maybe it's different in Ontario, but I doubt it.

Here are some numbers:

Approximately 3% of people abuse unemployment and entitlements like welfare. That costs U.S. citizens $3.5 billion dollars ($5,000 per citizen)

On the other hand, fraud by American defense contractors amounts to $100 billion per year. Corporate fraud (such as insider trading or cooking the books) is up by more than 50% of what it was a decade ago. Nearly 90% of those cases directly involve CEOs, CFOs and in insider trading cases, politicians. This fraud costs U.S. citizens more than $10 trillion (works out to be upwards of $45,000 per citizen)

Guess which group continues to get rich at the expense of others and drives marketing campaigns designed to sell to those struggling to get by while simultaneously shaming them for poor spending habits?

Let's not vilify the average person trying to get by in a world that is designed to get people to spend, spend, spend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by irv (Post 1968101)

I think the number of those people is greater than you think? I see/hear it in my relatively small city quite often so I can imagine what it is like in much bigger cities/metropolis's.


Leon 04-05-2020 04:04 PM

"Approximately 3% of people abuse unemployment and entitlements like welfare. That costs U.S. citizens $3.5 billion dollars ($5,000 per citizen)"


Whomever says that is ignorant. That isn't a personal attack. it is they just don't know the truth.


Quote:

Originally Posted by CharleyBrown (Post 1968136)
Dale,

I believe you when you say when you aren't talking about all those living paycheck to paycheck.

Regarding what I quoted.

Statistics say otherwise. As a people, we are more inclined to focus on those that a) cheat the system b) flaunt.

Yeah, those that live way beyond their means made their own bed, but let's not assume the majority of those living paycheck to paycheck do so because they live lavishly and don't save.

It's like the old facebook trope regarding people that abuse social services entitlements. "I saw this woman in front of me talking on her iPhone with a Gucci bag paying with food stamps." Sure, there are those that do that and they get lots of attention, but they are in the significant minority. Let me break it down.

If you look at the hard data, the number of "common" people scheming the system cost the states and federal government in the U.S. far less than the executives and those engaging in corporate fraud... and it's not even close. Maybe it's different in Ontario, but I doubt it.

Here are some numbers:

Approximately 3% of people abuse unemployment and entitlements like welfare. That costs U.S. citizens $3.5 billion dollars ($5,000 per citizen)

On the other hand, fraud by American defense contractors amounts to $100 billion per year. Corporate fraud (such as insider trading or cooking the books) is up by more than 50% of what it was a decade ago. Nearly 90% of those cases directly involve CEOs, CFOs and in insider trading cases, politicians. This fraud costs U.S. citizens more than $10 trillion (works out to be upwards of $45,000 per citizen)

Guess which group continues to get rich at the expense of others and drives marketing campaigns designed to sell to those struggling to get by while simultaneously shaming them for poor spending habits?

Let's not vilify the average person trying to get by in a world that is designed to get people to spend, spend, spend.


nolemmings 04-05-2020 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1968196)
Whomever says that is ignorant. That isn't a personal attack. it is they just don't know the truth.

And the truth is?

Republicaninmass 04-05-2020 04:42 PM

I had seen this article a while back. Seemed like a large number

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...fraud/2127897/

CharleyBrown 04-05-2020 06:08 PM

Sigh, I know it's not a personal attack, but I don't shoot from the hip. You've seen my research on the Bond Bread set.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publ...nsurance-fraud

https://s3.amazonaws.com/real.stloui...2/2012-024.pdf

On the other hand... not mentioned in my original post, but along the same lines: medicare fraud costs taxpayers $60 billion/year... in fact, Senator Rick Scott was CEO of a company that committed $300 million in medicare fraud and faced a fine of $1.7 billion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/u...d-economy.html

Oops... not 3%, but rather 4% - I admit my estimate was off slightly.

This article discusses the cost of the 2008 recession to U.S. citizens:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/22/b...g-tallied.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1968196)
"Approximately 3% of people abuse unemployment and entitlements like welfare. That costs U.S. citizens $3.5 billion dollars ($5,000 per citizen)"


Whomever says that is ignorant. That isn't a personal attack. it is they just don't know the truth.


CharleyBrown 04-05-2020 06:14 PM

It should be said that fraud of any kind, be it unemployment fraud, food stamp fraud, medicare fraud, securities and commodities fraud, etc. is awful and costly. However, the average person is more likely to vilify those committing food stamp or unemployment fraud despite it costing tax payers less overall. Meanwhile, the perps that commit the more costly fraud to taxpayers... securities and commodities fraud... are often overlooked.

Perhaps this is because it's easy to spot the person with a fake Gucci bag and iPhone paying with food stamps than it is to find the multi-millionaire (or billionaire) padding an extra zero to their net worth.

CharleyBrown 04-05-2020 06:28 PM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonco.../#40619d1df880

A more recent article on SNAP fraud... of note:

"When compared with those total figures, the fraud identified in 2016 amounted to a mere 0.9% of the total. That was up from 0.5% in 2012.

Or put another way, 99% of the benefit dollars were in no way associated with fraud, assuming that the government is doing its job of identifying malfeasance. If the fraud figure continues to grow at the same rate, then there is a real problem, but so far not so much."

Dpeck100 04-05-2020 07:45 PM

Explosive finish on this 1989 Rotten to the Core set.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotten-to-t...rdt=true&rt=nc


Very nice to see the Trump card going strong!

I gave my twin brother a PSA 10 for Christmas and kept two. I knew this card was going to be a monster!

gawaintheknight 04-06-2020 01:27 PM

+1, and a bonus to you for citing Forbes which no one can call left wing.

Ted

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharleyBrown (Post 1968241)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonco.../#40619d1df880

A more recent article on SNAP fraud... of note:

"When compared with those total figures, the fraud identified in 2016 amounted to a mere 0.9% of the total. That was up from 0.5% in 2012.

Or put another way, 99% of the benefit dollars were in no way associated with fraud, assuming that the government is doing its job of identifying malfeasance. If the fraud figure continues to grow at the same rate, then there is a real problem, but so far not so much."


samosa4u 04-06-2020 01:52 PM

This is probably the worst case of "thread hijacking" I have ever seen. The OP asked the following question:

Will this stock market madness affect cards?

And look where it is now. Sigh*

Dpeck100 04-06-2020 03:22 PM

Seems like every time I check completed listings I am pleasantly surprised. This just sold for $500.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dusty-Rhode...AOSwM0hdwNbdbd

AustinMike 04-06-2020 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1968196)
"Approximately 3% of people abuse unemployment and entitlements like welfare. That costs U.S. citizens $3.5 billion dollars ($5,000 per citizen)"


Whomever says that is ignorant. That isn't a personal attack. it is they just don't know the truth.

I'm not sure if they are ignorant, but they are either math challenged or don't proofread what they type or something is not explained in the analysis.

There are currently around 340 million people living in this country. Let's be conservative and use the 2010 census figure of less than 309 million. Let's say 308 million people. Let's be further conservative and assume that 10% of the population are not citizens. That leaves 277 million citizens. $3.5 billion divided by 277 million is less than $13 per citizen. How did they come up with $5,000 per citizen? Or am I missing something?

CharleyBrown 04-06-2020 04:00 PM

Mike,

You're correct in that I failed to incorporate the rest of my data in my analysis and I was assuming that the figures provided were on the low / conservative end. That was my error - not ashamed to admit it. The data that I failed to include was medicare and medicaid fraud (approximately $100 billion/year, along with fraud in the private sector insurance industry ($100-300 billion/yearly). I also should have stated U.S. citizen over 18 or even taxpayer.

Once you factor that information in, it's about $2,000/U.S. citizen over 18. So even if one were to say that the number of people defrauding services is over 3%, the impact on taxpayers is still far less than the criminal actions of corporate executives that led to the 2008 recession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinMike (Post 1968446)
I'm not sure if they are ignorant, but they are either math challenged or don't proofread what they type or something is not explained in the analysis.

There are currently around 340 million people living in this country. Let's be conservative and use the 2010 census figure of less than 309 million. Let's say 308 million people. Let's be further conservative and assume that 10% of the population are not citizens. That leaves 277 million citizens. $3.5 billion divided by 277 million is less than $13 per citizen. How did they come up with $5,000 per citizen? Or am I missing something?


1952boyntoncollector 04-06-2020 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1967198)
The stock market may help cards in that if you buy CLCT now at 15 dollars and change...you can net a nice profit later on....

anyone else pick up clct in 15s..

Stampsfan 04-07-2020 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967555)
It's too bad I can't call my cable company and have CNN, MSNBC & Fox News removed from my cable package.

Perhaps you should learn how to use a television remote. It’s not very difficult to skip channels if you don’t like what’s on.

AustinMike 04-07-2020 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharleyBrown (Post 1968461)
Once you factor that information in, it's about $2,000/U.S. citizen over 18. So even if one were to say that the number of people defrauding services is over 3%, the impact on taxpayers is still far less than the criminal actions of corporate executives that led to the 2008 recession.

Shaun,

Thanks for the update. I thought I was going crazy.

Unfortunately, the fact as you've laid it out doesn't fit the preconceived narrative of some people so it will simply be dismissed as "fake news."

Republicaninmass 04-07-2020 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1968440)
Seems like every time I check completed listings I am pleasantly surprised. This just sold for $500.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dusty-Rhode...AOSwM0hdwNbdbd

Just chiming in here, since I'm focused on a small niche as well. 1952 topps and signed cards. Sales have never been better, cards from $50 to 2k are flying on and off ebay. People are hoping we have seen the worst here in NY, and baseball and life should continue in a few weeks time.

Market has been rip roaring yesterday and futures today, but ear ings and guidence are about a week away. Never in history has a virus (flu) brought the world to its knees, a grinding halt. I'm hoping the world and small businesses can show resilience and hit the ground running.

1952boyntoncollector 04-07-2020 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1968470)
anyone else pick up clct in 15s..

in the 16s now.......

if everyone just buys CLCT will be plenty of money to buy cards....so thats how the stock market is impacting the hobby....

steve B 04-07-2020 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul S (Post 1966985)
They can't. That is donated money and specifically earmaked toward the democratic campaign. Big trouble if they use it for anything else.

Just stamp every mask with "vote democrat" And there you go, a useful campaign promotional item.

steve B 04-07-2020 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1967483)
On a good note even though several of the posts in this thread are bat $hit crazy they are normal compared to another forum I am on.

I am a member of a forum that has sections for almost every subject imaginable. There is a "unexplained mysteries and paranormal" section. If you don't take it seriously it is some of the best humor you could imagine.

They have the typical bigfoot, dogman, and ufo/alien wackadoodles. This virus has brought the conspiracy theorists out of the woodwork. A sane person couldn't make up the stuff they are saying is real. Cliff notes, this is a engineered virus to control the world and our economy will never recover.

Enjoy. https://www.city-data.com/forum/unex...es-paranormal/

I'm going to check that out.
I totally miss the weekly world news. Best crappy sci-fi around and dirt cheap too.

1952boyntoncollector 04-08-2020 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1968655)
in the 16s now.......

if everyone just buys CLCT will be plenty of money to buy cards....so thats how the stock market is impacting the hobby....



in the 17s now........can sell now and make a nice profit

bnorth 04-08-2020 03:05 PM

The little town I live in was a hot spot early with 21 cases. On the good side we have not had a single new case in 6 days. 19 are recovered and sadly 2 didn't make it.

Have a great day everyone and stay safe.:)

Dpeck100 04-08-2020 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1968952)
in the 17s now........can sell now and make a nice profit

There are going to be some people who make a fortune during this time.

I have had my best two trades ever in my retirement account.

1952boyntoncollector 04-08-2020 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1969054)
There are going to be some people who make a fortune during this time.

I have had my best two trades ever in my retirement account.

fortunes already made...lots of stocks now are within 10-20% of pre- crash....

even the hotels etc made a big jump

all thats left are cruise ships and banks and airlines....

Republicaninmass 04-09-2020 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1969178)
fortunes already made...lots of stocks now are within 10-20% of pre- crash....

even the hotels etc made a big jump

all thats left are cruise ships and banks and airlines....

No love for Oil and REITs? Most still down close to 70%

Yes the 1% certainly has profited quite a bit. Mom and pop with their shops closed and a conservative 401k certainly "have not"

Dpeck100 04-09-2020 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1969209)
No love for Oil and REITs? Most still down close to 70%

Yes the 1% certainly has profited quite a bit. Mom and pop with their shops closed and a conservative 401k certainly "have not"


I think much of the 1% hasn't profited at all. If you were in a basic asset allocation you are down.

In the two areas you mention there are steep losses but someone will step in and buy and if there is just a minor retracement they can make huge gains.

There will be some hedge funds that went out of business from the decline and there will be some that have incredible gains.

1952boyntoncollector 04-09-2020 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1968952)
in the 17s now........can sell now and make a nice profit

CLCT in the 18s now.....going to upgrade those psa 2s for psa 3s! (or equivalent)

Shoeless Moe 04-11-2020 10:19 AM

Love Cuomo!

I know he doesn't want it, but this guy should be our President, and I like Trump.

Dude just throws out politics and is doing it the right way. Tells his mayor basically "whoa easy pal, I'll make the call." LOVE IT!!!!


The guy makes nothing but sense.....it has taken me off guard.

1952boyntoncollector 04-12-2020 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1969989)
Love Cuomo!

I know he doesn't want it, but this guy should be our President, and I like Trump.

Dude just throws out politics and is doing it the right way. Tells his mayor basically "whoa easy pal, I'll make the call." LOVE IT!!!!


The guy makes nothing but sense.....it has taken me off guard.

Eh, i think saying he throws out politics is a bit disingenuous...

Shoeless Moe 04-12-2020 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1970293)
Eh, i think saying he throws out politics is a bit disingenuous...

Well he's complimenting Trump even when reporters try to get him to say something negative about him.

Never seen that from a Democrat.

And don't think its just kissing butt, seems genuine. He seems like a genuine dude.

1952boyntoncollector 04-12-2020 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1970406)
Well he's complimenting Trump even when reporters try to get him to say something negative about him.

Never seen that from a Democrat.

And don't think its just kissing butt, seems genuine. He seems like a genuine dude.

Yes he did do that recently but i think many will agree he is not non-political either.

Mark17 04-12-2020 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1970416)
Yes he did do that recently but i think many will agree he is not non-political either.

By definition, no politician is non-political. Some are more so than others, but they all look to "score points" and gain support among voters, now and future.

A politician being gracious to members of the opposition party may be mostly genuine, but it is likely also, at least partially, calculated for best effect. Politicians need to win elections to stay relevant and I don't think any of them ever forget that, even for 5 minutes.

bnorth 04-15-2020 12:05 PM

One thing I have noticed in the areas I collect is all the insanely overpriced stuff getting listed canceled and relisted every few days. We can thank eBay for this with all their free listings being offered.

On the up side a guy that keeps listing a late 80s store model bat as a 1970's game bat said he would update the listing. Hay he might be lying about what the bat is but at least it is insanely overpriced.:D

earlywynnfan 04-17-2020 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1967257)
Anyone else think Chris Cuomo is faking it?

I have not heard the guy cough once.

I cough taking a sh-t.

This guy "has the Virus" yet talks an hour straight without so much as a cough or sneeze. 3 days in a row since he's "had it."

He's really going all out on this fake!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebri...tt0?li=BBnb7Kz

1952boyntoncollector 04-17-2020 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1969225)
CLCT in the 18s now.....going to upgrade those psa 2s for psa 3s! (or equivalent)


CLCT in the mid 19s now..going to upgrade those psa 3s for psa 4s.

Shoeless Moe 04-17-2020 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan (Post 1971947)
He's really going all out on this fake!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebri...tt0?li=BBnb7Kz

Yah he sure is.....


https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4...tion-with-cnns


He got busted outside his house, breaking his own social distancing BS. Dude is a fraud.


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