Just PWCC.

AHs do it all the time for consignors. I don't have a problem with it if the cards are not doctored and the consignors are not card doctors. Isn't that the real problem?

The more narrowly focused, the better then.:D

Why make it more complicated than it has to be? Go after the head of the snake.

Thanks for the reply guys. I have deleted this last post, but happy to talk offline - PM me.

Ryan

Pristine Card Cleaners appears to operate out of Athens, GA according to the Facebook entries.

Hopefully one could come up with a wider class than just limited to specific identified cards, the money is always in a large class. As long as you're not talking a crusade against BGS/PSA which was my initial concern about your post, and are focused on a specific defendant where it looks like some good evidence has been outed already, that's a better suit to consider.

Brent better conserve his Asset, he could get altered in the can.

Pre
War
Card
Cutter/cleaner

Could the argument be made that we have all been harmed in one way or another?
The people with the money and inclination have bought things that were altered to be something they aren't, and have paid very high prices to do that.
That in turn had raised the prices of lower condition cards, sometimes to the point that collectors on lower budgets can't afford them at all. Not because the cards have increased in value naturally, but because the overall price has been inflated by the false grades.

I suppose the opposite argument could be made, that a great many of us have benefited from the false high prices, being able to sell our cards for more. That doesn't work for me, mostly because I seldom sell anything, but to me it seems that many collectors regularly turn stuff to follow other interests in the hobby.

I presume the class would be filed in Oregon, correct? Would it just be for in-state collectors or would it be a nationwide class with CAFA implications? I don't know anything about the federal district judges in Oregon, but here certifying a national class, particularly of fraud victims, would be pretty difficult IMO.

Assuming you got as far as discovery, and that there was information that confirmed the conspiracy theories, would you then pursue PSA and/or BGS as well?

I've thought about it for all of five minutes. But I've certainly LOST motions to limit classes to a particular state.

I have no clue at this point, at this point I'm just responding to a post on a message board.

Fair enough, just a hypothetical that was probably too broad.

Ruining a card doctor and or someone aiding that would be a start, but if a grading company was knowingly letting stuff by, I'd hope they would be dealt with too.

I would hope that they find a way to deal with it themselves, in the first place. But we'll see.

lol!

Yeah I mean just look at some of the people here who seem, what's the word, unmoved (?) by all that's been revealed and continues to be revealed.

"What are you gonna do, LaChance? Shoot us all?

No, Ace. Just you."

I know someone who, when he took a job in the price guide division at Beckett, was told he not buy and sell while he was working for them.

An auction house sending in cards for consigners to get graded is fine. Some consigners aren't experts or even collectors (grandpa's collection), and the AH does what it best for them. I've had non collectors who have stumbled upon something valuable, and I've recommended they consign it to one of the good auction houses and let the AH handle it all for them. In these and other cases, there's nothing unethical or problematic with the AH getting the cards graded or autographs authenticated for them-- part of the servce.

An AH submitting cards for someone they know been banned by the grading company from submitting for altering cards is obviously an issue, and, at the very least, the AH takes partial responsibility for any altered cards that have been submitted. If the AH is submitting cards for someone who has been banned (and the AH knows has been banned) from submitting, I don't now why (beyond the obvious $$ considerations, which, of course, is a big beyond in this hobby) the grading company wouldn't also ban the AH from submitting.

Babe Ruth's dog Cloudland Dot...
 

https://nationalpurebreddogday.com/t...mbino-and-dot/

I swear I was thinking that in 1923 Babe Ruth's dog Dot was seen evacuating in

the park and the leavings were collected and saved all these years, they

would grade/authenticate and encapsulate and make quite a profit :eek:

Scary but very possible...

Great line, great movie. This could turn into a complete and total Barfarama

It might have something to do with the name calling, bullying, and threats that have occurred from calling out the PWCC and other scum bags in the past.:eek:

Agreed. Just because hundreds of guys aren't chiming in, torches in hand, doesn't mean they aren't aware and concerned. Some people, understandably, have things more important to do and/or don't want to be called an idiot on an online discussion board, which is, sadly, likely most of the time.

OR...maybe some of those not chiming in are part of the problem???

My comment, and perhaps I was not clear, was more about the active defenders.

Even though I been in this hobby 15 or so years, I guess I am still a relatively newbie compared to some of these guys. I will say one thing - whitman111 has mad a freaking KILLING!!! We're talking hand over fist type money. Is this guy currently employed?

I think that's unfair, but thanks for proving my point.

I'd suggest checking sold items, if anyone on the board has dealt with him. It could expose even more cards

Wellllllll...its possible!!!!

I've been talking with some journalist friends trying to find someone who knows at least the basics of the hobby who would be interested in a helluva investigative opportunity. I would think such a piece (or series) might draw some law enforcement attention, especially if it's in a big enough publication.

You would think, but they might still be too busy reporting that amazing Ruth Shotwell "find"! Media did a lot of background checking on that one. Wonder what Mr. Ball is up to these days?

The guys on blowout just found a new run of certs connected to Moser. Leads me to believe many more are to come.

The more I think about it, the more interested I'd be to see you take it on.

Just for fun.

And more modern sold through PWCC. And the beat goes on. And the beat goes on.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295880

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=65


Geez. That’s quite in jump in price for the Russell rookie.

Yes, By Brent Mastro

And this is why I believe PSA is part of the scam. Who is going to spend $7700 on a card, risk cracking it out and doctoring it knowing anything could go wrong? Who's going to risk screwing up a $7700 card, unless you knew for sure it would get a number grade?

Someone making hundreds of thousands would not view it as a huge risk.

They would have to be quite confident in their “skill of the craft” to do this.

…. or have an "in" with the TPG.

Some of those look to be big enough trims that they should have never cleared even a basic min size check.

A musical interlude from the Andrea True Connection.

More more more
How do you like it
How do you like it
More more more

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295892

Card doctors are making more $ than regular doctors.

Dad: "Son, what do you want to be when you grow up?"
Son: "I want to be a doctor...a card doctor. "

On and on
On and on
On and on
-- Stephen Bishop

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295897

BTW Stephen Bishop played the loser playing the guitar on the stairs of the frat house that was smashed by John Belushi in Animal House.

Really remarkable how all the card doctors use Brent almost exclusively to sell their altered crap. I wonder how they all figured out independently to use PWCC and not Probstein. Gee, if I didn’t know that Brent was doing such great things for the hobby I’d think he conspired with the card doctors on these sales.

Au contraire, PWCC was used as a "front for bad behavior." Just ask them.

And I quote.

"We at PWCC will not tolerate our brand’s use as a front for bad behavior. That day is over. Today is a new day, based on facts and enforceable policies for which we expect the entire market to hold us accountable."

Maybe the genius monitoring the shilling, can get a promotion to enforce these new policies

I wonder if they use the vault.

You mean the vAuLT? :D

In with the TPG
 

Some people scofffed at David for suggesting that the graders are in cahoots with the trimmers. I think it is happening.

Look at SSI's statement on Blowout where he describes his relationship with Beckett. Is there one grader at Beckett who is passing along these trim jobs?

Here is the link: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...276110&page=10

One would hope PSA and Beckett are taking a close look at the submissions where these bad cards are coming from to figure out where they came from and who graded them and why they got through.

Nice conservation here, worthy of a sticker. If anyone here purchased a PSA 2 T227 Cobb from PWCC, take note.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1642

Ruh roh...shits getting real here!!!

Too close to home, eh? :(

I like how Brent advertised the paper loss when the card was sold to Moser but conveniently forgot about it three months later.

Where are the vault boys? I picture them on a white knuckle flight to Oregon as I type.

"We have searched this card thoroughly and while we do locate a couple faint wrinkles or creases, we can't locate the rational behind what appears to be an overly conservative assessment."

whereas before

"An exceedingly light crease to the lower right corner and minor paper loss near Cobb's belt affects the grade."

Damn. Brent really did a good thing for the hobby there.

Maybe he thought the paper loss had been fixed?

Conserved Peter. It's different than fixed.

.

conserved

.

One of my favorites is when Brent talks about the 62 PSA 8 Mantle as one of the nicest he has ever brokered.... whoops turns out he sold that exact same card as a PSA 7.5 to Moser 3 months earlier...

And then he has that other Goudey where he mentions they have been selling a collection that has come in raw over the years... and then the card in an SGC holder is found being sold...to... you guessed it Moser....

And then Bob Block who sold an estimated $1mm in trimmed cards through PWCC... it’s never ending....

Mercy. Not just about the card, you have to read through to the end.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1681

Oh c’mon pete...brents a good guy and is good for the hobby...he’d never do such a thing??? I’d put the odds of brent talking/showing up to the dinner at 5000/1.

Certainly sounds like Brent and Moser were more than just acquaintances based on that guys story but that might be tough to prove if he does lawyer up?

It's unbelievable how far reaching this story is getting. Hockey, football, baseketball, and Look and See cards are what has been uncovered already and like a couple have stated over on BO, this is just getting started. :eek:

That and the Cousy rookie.

If Brent does any more good things for the hobby he’s going to end up in prisons.

More than one?

LOL oops. Maybe!

I can’t wait to hear that/when a lawsuit is filed.

Friendly bumps are a good thing for the hobby, right?