Hitler wasn’t the only one to invade Poland in September 1939.

Well, I understand your point but if you watch the vid, Zelenskyy says the U.S. "will" have to send troops, not they must send them. I gathered from the tidbit he was alluding what was to come "if" not now but I can see how it can be misconstrued like that.

And LOL on Russia attacking Ukraine "Mercilessly" You should educate yourself on what Zelenskyy and Ukraine are doing to it's own citizens, especially blacks, gays and other minorities/ethnicities.

If the purpose was first strike, we wouldn't like it. If the purpose was defensive, like air defense systems, it wouldn't matter since the USA does not reserve the right to invade Mexico.

NATO is a defensive organization. Proof of that is that NATO hasn't sent troops or air forces into combat. They have only provided munitions for Ukraine to defend their own territory. If NATO was an aggressive force, they'd be flying sorties over Moscow daily.

Are you saying Russia is NOT bombing hospitals, schools, and other civilians targets like power plants? Because Putin himself is bragging about making life as miserable as possible on Ukrainian civilians.

Look, I agree with you about the mismanagement of the Covid situation, beginning with its origin. But the MSM is not ALWAYS wrong. When Putin himself brags about the devastation his army is wreaking on Ukraine, it seems like quite a stretch to say that all the many various news outlets are wrong when they report on it.


How familiar are you with Wagner and its origins? It seems a bit ridiculous to say Putin is sending Wagner into Ukraine because he is so outraged with "Nazis." To Russia, de-Nazification is just another term for killing people and stealing their land.

Russians who speak out against Putin and his regime are plummeting and splatting by the dozens, and that is fact. Actually happening. But you're more concerned with an alleged threat to one person.

So, my question to you is this: Do you believe Russia has been deliberately bombing civilian targets in Ukraine, as Putin says?

Again, Putin did not start this. It's a proxy war against Russia, nothing more.
Is Ukraine even an ally?
113 BILLION and counting. Why, and why such a vested interest? Hunter is on the board of Burisma. Ukraine has bio labs.
Why is the U.S. so against Russia invading Ukraine if you say it is unprovoked when that is all the U.S. has done for years itself?
Have they now had a change of heart, taken the moral high ground and a way of paying repentance is to now help Ukraine?
You're being played, Mark. We are going to get into WW3 because your President and his band of Merrymen love war, nothing more.
https://www.tiktok.com/@cristinabrun..._t=8aHWsM4axDy

Putin did start this. First step was in 2014 when he annexed Crimea. Now he's trying to take several more bites. It has become a proxy war against Russia that Putin started.

Suppose we did as you suggest. Let Putin take Ukraine. Do you think he would stop there, Neville Chamberlain? Or would he then move into Moldova, the Baltics, and maybe Poland? And we'd just sit back and think it was a safer world, with Putin "de-Nazifying" eastern Europe?

It's a fraction of our defense budget. Usually, our military spending doesn't accomplish much. The money we are spending now is an attempt to maintain a stable Europe. Putin needs to be stopped.



Hunter is a criminal, the USA supports various labs, including the one in Wuhan, unfortunately. I'm not aware of the USA invading and annexing land from other countries recently. I'm aware of the USA building schools and hospitals, but not intentionally blowing them up.

We are preventing WW3 by nipping it in the bud, so to speak. What about "appeasement doesn't work" don't you understand? Look, I get it. You're a contrarian. Government is always dishonest, MSM always lies, things are never as they seem. You are being played by your own bias.

You didn't answer my question. Do you believe Putin is purposely attacking civilian targets in Ukraine to cause as much pain as possible on the people there, as Putin brags?

And I have another question. If Putin is successful in capturing Ukraine, or parts of it, do you think he stops there?

I had a contrarian friend in law school who claimed the Berlin Wall was built to keep West Berliners from fleeing east. Saying Putin did not start this war reminds me of that.

Well, prior to the western sponsored coup in Ukraine, Russia got along just fine with neighbors in Ukraine.
Deals and promises were broken. NATO continued and continues to move east. But Putin is just expected to ignore those, say no big deal?
Who I believe is still your current president who is calling the shots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES4jslRzQwI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XqgNOvFMvg

Western coup in Ukraine? Please explain. According to your previous posts, Ukraine is playing the West.

Your definition of "Russia getting along just fine with its neighbors in Ukraine" means Russia first seizing Crimea, then 4 more oblasts. Maybe from your, and Putin's, point of view, that's getting along just fine. To Ukrainian citizens who have been invaded and bombed relentlessly, not so much.

Irv, usually you are forthcoming in your debates. I've asked you two specific questions above that you continue to dodge. Why?

Had my dates wrong, never mind, but I still believe Putin is clearly the aggressor here and any legitimate concerns could have been addressed diplomatically..

I think I get what you mean, but this is where language needs to be precise. Putin clearly chose to start the war. Ukraine did not attack Russia, Russia invaded. It didn't happen in a vacuum though, which I imagine is your point. The US appears to have backed the 2014 coup, which sparked Russia to take the Crimea just days later, to install a more friendly regime on Russia's border. The eastern provinces have been trying to secure independence for years and western Ukraine has been using force and violence to keep them attached. Russia, obviously, does not want a US client state on its border. The US would never allow a Russian client state on our border. It is much more complicated than a couple sentences, but the main narrative likes to skip over the entire history and paint a rather absurdist picture of simple evil incarnate, as we do every single time we are at war or proxy war with another state. We have seen this play out over and over and over and over.




If we are in favor of a people's right to rule themselves, we must be for Ukraine but also in favor of the east being able to choose for themselves as well. I find it difficult to find a sensible philosophy that means the US should bankroll or fight Ukraine's war of defense, but Ukraine is allowed to do whatever it wants to provinces that do not want to be part of Ukraine. Every time the US has a painful go of it, we all renounce the war we once supported and say that the US should stop being the world police. And then every time something happens, we say we need to fight it or fund it. And then the cycle repeats itself. This sure feels like another loop of this circle at this point, but time will tell.

I know not what to really make of this war, accurate information is difficult to find in the middle of a conflict and most of the media is simply printing Ukraine's propaganda; no nations propaganda about a war it is in has ever in world history been particularly accurate information. It does seem that Russia is still fighting with an arm tied behind its back, though I don't know why. Short of using WMD, there is little risk of further escalation, the west is already bankrolling and supplying the war at large scale. We will learn much in 10 years that isn't really known now.

Because your believes, imo, are silly. The U.S. rebuilding schools and infrastructure. LOL. The middles east is a mess due to the fake WMD narrative. Remember that one?
Again, you're being told one side of the story, not being told what Zelenskyy is doing to his own people.
Like I said earlier, if Putin wanted to destroy Ukraine, he would have done so by now.
113 BILLION is pocket change to you?
Well I would say, spending countless millions to conduct a coup in a foreign country and overthrow their govt and implement an unelected one to spend another couple billion preparing them for a war with a super power where we spend a couple hundred billion more which causes/leads to hyper inflation on energy, food and what not is a very irresponsible endeavor. Especially when America has things that could use that money and attention to HELP people instead of peddling death and despair.

And I have no idea if Putin will stop as you don't. To suggest otherwise is just speculation. Will the U.S., especially the warmongering democrats stop raiding other countries? I highly doubt it as there is far too much money to be had in the war machine.
And you somehow think, despite the no new wars anywhere for 4 yrs, you think this war will stop WW3, not start it?

No, your right, I am a contrarian and I don't believe any of this nor what our media is spinning. If they say one thing, I think the opposite. I can't help it based on what lies we have been spewed to for years now. But I'm suppose to believe this war is for a good cause, the media is now telling the truth, Putin is the bad guy and Zelenskyy is the saint?
Stand with Ukraine!!! LOL.

Exactly. Putin was provoked and he is continuing to be poked.
Peace agreements which he has tried to broker now and before the war have fallen on deaf ears.
The U.S. will not stop until they get their wish. I just hope troops and citizens around the world don't die needlessly because of these war mongering assholes.

Right, your mind is locked into being contrarian. It doesn't really matter how smart someone is, if they've surrendered their ability (or desire) to think for themselves, rather than being stuck into a knee-jerk belief system that has them believing, or in your case, disbelieving, everything.

I will ask for a third or fourth time: Do you believe Russia is purposely bombing civilian targets, to kill and make miserable as many Ukrainian citizens as possible? I really don't expect an answer, because it's become obvious my question is threatening to you and your thought process.

You keep mentioning how unfair Ukraine has been to some of its citizens, while evading the fact Putin is trying to bomb them into oblivion. The reason Putin hasn't completely destroyed Ukraine by now (with tactical nukes) is because NATO and the USA stand in the way.

By the way, Biden isn't my guy and I disagree with him on most things. I didn't vote for him. But unlike partisans, I can give credit for good policy when it's due. The concept is known as thinking for myself. One party isn't always right, or wrong, and neither is the MSM.

Defeating Putin's expansion in Europe is essential.

Exiled Thucydides knew
All that a speech can say
About Democracy,
And what dictators do,
The elderly rubbish they talk
To an apathetic grave;
Analysed all in his book,
The enlightenment driven away,
The habit-forming pain,
Mismanagement and grief:
We must suffer them all again.

There will be massive death and suffering and economic devastation and eventually the war will end and we will return to the status quo ante or something close. What a lame race we are.

Putin has been very open about his Peter the Great fantasy. And he'll be stopped inevitably, Russia just isn't that strong militarily, but at a terrible human cost.

I agree there is far more at play.....and why did Ukraine have all those secret bio-labs? I think our government is really freaking out they were exposed......and all of a sudden this past week, Congress unanimously decided to agree Covid escaped from the Wuhan lab, after 3 years of denial.

I did answer above, in a roundabout way, however, but I guess you missed that?
Of course Putin is bombing areas, that's what usually happens in wars, to starve people out, etc. but I don't believe for one second it is anything like our media is portraying.
Here, watch this vid and pay particular attention at the 50 second or so point. This person, who ever he is (NATO/U.S. general?) is shocked and dumbfounded this journalist knows so much, knows the truth.
Did you see this on the evening news?
https://youtu.be/SKUtg-4BxMY

Like I said earlier or alluded too, there is something else going on here, something else that we will likely never know?
Joe hasn't been to your border in 2 yrs and apparently can't find Ohio on a map either, but he sure has no problem finding and flying to Ukraine whenever he wants?
Regardless, all this back and forth is futile. Neither you or I will ever fully, 100% know what is truly going on but I do know one thing, which many choose to ignore, is the fact that the U.S. has started more wars than any other nation on earth, and it is not even close.

That was the Department Of Energy, there are 213 current Representatives and 51 current Senators who wouldn’t do that if you put a gun to their heads regardless of what evidence you presented to them.

Ha, probably true.

Plenty of boardmembers as well...

Sorry, my mistake posting some 'fake news'. Thanks for the correction. Now I feel like the MSM, lol. I should have said I got it from an 'anonymous source'.

Conspiracy theories can, but certainly not always, have merit.

If the media chooses to label something a conspiracy theory, automatically over 50% of the population will dismiss it as garbage.

Follow the science is meaningless, unless you trust the source and understand it.

I think the pitch clock is a good thing. It's amazing that batters can still hit without adjusting the velcro on their batting gloves after each pitch.;)

Our resident fount of all wisdom. :eek:

Thank you Peter for the “pitch”, which you completed in less than 15 seconds.:D

Funny how when at a conference hosted in a country some are supposedly starting to look at as your ally, that even they laugh out loud at the crap you spew. Maybe there is some hope for mankind yet.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/crowd-eru...180331064.html

Can't wait to see how the resident @$$#0(&s will try to spin this one. So people from India and the rest of the world are all just as stupid as Americans, know about nothing but the fake news they hear, etc., etc., etc. Rather than putting up more crap, why not go look for a Steven Seagal movie to watch on Netflix, or see if you can't pull up a Roger Waters' video on YouTube to listen to.

Damn, where's that Ignore button again....................

Some people make jokes about Zelensky, and how he is just a comedian trying to get over on a bigger stage. Sounds like someone from the other side is jealous, and trying to get their own stand-up career going in this case. And looks like they had a good start. LOL

Resist the urge to use the ignore button. Seriously you will miss out on some funny stuff.:D

Irv has a point here. Zelensky should have never bloodied Putin's fist by repeatedly beating it with his face.

Irv's commitment to the bit is admirable. I keep wondering when he's going to break character but it hasn't happened yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...lution_ES-11/4

United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES‑11/4 is the fourth resolution of the eleventh emergency special session of the United Nations General Assembly, adopted on 12 October 2022, following Resolution ES-11/3 which was adopted on 7 April 2022. Resolution ES‑11/4 declares that Russia's so-called referendums in the Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia oblasts and the subsequent attempted annexation are invalid and illegal under international law. It calls upon all states to not recognize these territories as part of Russia. Furthermore, it demands that Russia "immediately, completely and unconditionally withdraw" from Ukraine as it is violating its territorial integrity and sovereignty. The resolution was passed with an overwhelming vote of 143 in favour, 5 against and 35 abstaining. This resolution achieved more votes in favour of condemning Russia's actions than Resolution ES-11/1, the initial resolution on the Russian invasion of Ukraine which demanded that Russia withdraw its forces from Ukraine.

The ones supporting Russia were: Belarus, North Korea, Nicaragua, Russian Federation, Syria, and Irv.

I know. Unfortunately, our forum's Ignore button doesn't work when someone gets quoted. And after a while it gets soooooo tiring hearing/seeing the same old, "I'm right and you're wrong!" mantra and BS over and over again, others ignoring your questions and never answering them, twisting any and everything you say, cherry-picking and putting up stuff completely out of context, and complaining about all the fake news you see/listen to, but only on the channels, stations, podcasts, videos, etc. that they don't post/watch/listen to, because all the things they watch and listen to are of course, 100% true and completely accurate all the time. What an effing joke such people are. There is no perfect place in the world. No country that is not guilty of something they have done that was terribly wrong at some point in time. No politicians anywhere in the world, at least at the higher levels, that always tell the truth no matter what. And on and on. If someone is so against America and the people in it, why not just STFU and move elsewhere? Oh, that's right, chances are they couldn't be an a--hole there, like they are here, and get away with it!!!!!

(And not directed at you Ben, just commentary on others.)

Very much aware of that UN vote Mark. Yet some people on the forum talk like that isn't the case, and still seem to totally blame the U.S. for everything.

If your post was more along the lines of commenting on India not necessarily being an ally of Russia, I was thinking of their recent cooperation with the BRICS group's plans for a possible new world financial order, as well as the continued, and apparently growing, commerce between India and Russia, especially in regard to oil purchases. And though India did not vote against the UN resolution, I believe they did abstain from it. And what is the old saying, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do (or in this case - say) nothing."

When India and China together represent about a third of world's entire population between them, that is not an insignificant fact to be easily dismissed. I always used to think of India and South Africa (the "I" and "S" in the BRICS group) as being more democratic and Western leaning, but now am wondering if maybe the U.S. alliance with Europe, especially Great Britain, may not be working against us to some extent with both of these nations. Especially in regard to any lingering ill-will and prejudice from when these two countries were controlled, taken advantage of, and had their citizenry abused by their British colonial oppressors. India didn't break from English colonial rule until 1947. South Africa didn't finally dump English colonial control until 1961, but the institution and effects of apartheid weren't formally overthrown till even later, around 1994. We dumped the British in the late 1700's, and then beat them again in the War of 1812. We've had over 200 years to forgive and forget our former British rulers. India and South Africa haven't had quite as long, so I can possibly see them being a little bit more hesitant to automatically just side with someone so aligned with England.

And by the way, South Africa also abstained in that UN Resolution vote as well.

My post was intended to support your previous post, and your current one. When only 4 other countries, all of them either owned by Russia (Belarus, Syria) or likewise worldwide pariahs (Nicaragua, North Korea) support the Ukrainian invasion, it can't be simply stupid, gullible Americans being fooled by the MSM.

^^THIS^^ is just propaganda. Go get the real news on tic tac, tweeker, or the farcebook. Ukraine invaded Russia and we need to donate $10 a month to the poor Russians for food.:D:D:D

It's not just the MSM it's the liberal elites. You know, Obama, Trudeau, Greta, Meryl Streep, Bill Gates, etc.

That’s John Kirby. When he was an active duty Rear Admiral in the US Navy. He retired from the Navy in late 2015. So, at minimum 7-8 years ago. Cool? I didn’t watch most of the video because I assume these imbecile amateur talking heads left that context out. Keeps the suckers thinking it happened recently apparently.

Not coincidentally, the Russian embassy account posted the video cited by whoever the guys are in the video two days ago.

Color me surprised. Right up there with Russian media featuring Tucker Carlson.

I assumed so, just sort of elaborated a little bit more on some of the other things that seem to be going on, just in case some others tried to say something about India. Wasn't necessarily directed at you, just being proactive for some others before they try to say something else. LOL

We're definitively in an odd situation these days. And in looking at that UN vote, who voted no is one thing. Those who abstained are saying something also. Question is what, and then why? Just throwing some thoughts out there.

LOL. :D

This is like deja vu from the covid thread.
How did you all make out with that one?

Stand with Ukraine. Brought to you by the same people who lied to you about Russian collusion, ivermectin is horse dewormer, the Steele dossier, mostly peaceful protests, Hunter Biden's laptop is Russian disinformation, if you get vaccinated you won't catch covid, Jan 6th was an insurrection, voter ID is racist and don't forget, democracy is under threat.

Anyways, I got about 2 feet of global warming to shovel from my driveway so I'm going to be busy for while.

Ya'll enjoy your blissful day. :)

I know you're only semi-serious, but it will never happen. What you see is what you get. Irv seriously believes everything he thinks. He is the world's arbitrator of what is true and what is a lie. We at Net54 are lucky that he is blessing us with his unique talent.

This morning added the bit about global warming being a hoax because…snow. Have to love that logic.

If you don't get that snow at Dales house proves global warming is a hoax I can't help you.:D

Thank you for the reminder. I need to pick some up when I go for feed today.

Attachment 560557

I think Russia has been preparing for this war for some time now. They were not prepared when the Neocons overthrew the Ukranian government and installed a pro-western government in 2014, but they have been preparing ever since.

The alliance with China against the American Empire has given them a partner that needs their resources, so even though we blew up their pipeline, they still can export energy into other markets.

At one time, it seemed like China would get integrated into the American Empire, but we were simply used for our technology and expertise to allow China to advance their society. Now they too are ready to go their own way.

We will be challenged to directly take on Russia in a war, but I think we have no shot in a two front war against Russia and China.

Interesting, and actually maybe a great day. Somebody finally runs out of something to say about one issue in one thread, so they now have to resort to bringing up crap they already spewed about something else in another thread about a different topic, just so they can keep talking about something and keep their narrative going somehow. What a joke they can be. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

I was actually looking forward to seeing what kind of garbage some people would now come up with to dispute that Russia's Foreign Minister got laughed at by a entire crowd of international representatives at a G20 conference. I wondered how the resident "spin doctors" would try and spin this one to somehow blame the corrupt and government/power controlled U.S. media for making up just another fake news story about this, specially seeing as how the media for pretty much the entire world was on hand for this, not just the U.S. media, and yet they all seem to be seeing the same thing. Well, except maybe the people from the Russian and Chinese media maybe. LOL They'll probably try to spin it as the disrespectful actions of the Western world trying to assert their influence over everyone else, instead of the natural reactions of people. Like when you hear something absolutely ridiculous and stupidly insane that makes you spit out your coffee when you hear it because you can't help but laugh at loud. That sounds exactly like what the reaction of the crowd was to what the Russian Foreign Minister had to say. Hey, maybe that is the problem in everyone dealing with all this crap that is going on. Instead of confrontation and throwing angry words and threats back and forth, maybe we should all just start laughing uncontrollably at all these aggressors and the garbage and lies they spew about everyone else. If the bullies of the world won't back down from others standing up against them, maybe laughing them off the world stage will have a better impact and effect. Embarrass them enough to the point everyone knows what a joke they are, and maybe they'll finally start to shut up and go away. If nothing else, it is worth a try, right? It you can't force or influence them to back off, embarrass the heck out of them and maybe they'll finally back down to stop people from constantly laughing at them.

Ivermectin is also on the WHO’s list of essential medicines for humans.

Like in Dr Seuss?;):D

A persons a person, no matter how small.

My real hot take is that the King’s Stilts is the best Seuss book. The Lorax and Horton Hears a Who right behind.

What no Butter Battle Book?

" That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether they had one, or not, upon thars."

And it's sad to say, the new regime , s more like Sylvester McMonkey McBean

Oddly enough, for the same things it is used to treat in horses and cattle

Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. In addition, some topical forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice and for skin conditions such as rosacea.

Sure didn't see that coming.

Many people thought the same thing during WW II when the U.S. took on a two front war with Germany and Japan. What is really interesting is that in that war, it was actually the U.S. that saved Russia and China. You can talk about how great Russia and their army was in defeating Hitler, but truth be known, were it not for the U.S. entering the fray and creating a second front for the Germans to have to fight on, I kind of think the German army, despite the issues and difficulties in dealing with Russian weather and the willingness of Russia's communist leaders to sacrifice the lives of their people to defend and protect themselves and their positions of power (sound familiar to events of today), would have eventually prevailed. And the Chinese were basically at the mercy of the Japanese, until again the U.S. became involved and eventually prevailed. And IIRC, after the end of the war, didn't Generals Patton and MacArthur both campaign to take their forces, fresh from defeating the Axis powers, and suggest being allowed to now turn their attention towards the Communist powers and dictatorships in both Russia and China, but in the interest of world peace, understanding, and cooperation, denied by the U.S. government? Funny how history has proven both of them to have been pretty much right on money.

Also, look at what happened to the main Axis powers that were defeated in WW II, and were then occupied by the victors (ie: the U.S). We eventually turned control back over to the Japanese and German people, helped them establish their more democratic forms of government, assisted in their reconstruction and growth, and then basically left them alone to let them become the countries they are today. The U.S. didn't stay in those countries, take control of their governments, coerce and manipulate their people with force, propaganda, militarized police, suppression of people's rights and freedoms, and deny them access and information from the rest of the world. Now look at China and Russia and how they operate in today's world, and how they claim territory in other countries and lands that are clearly not theirs, nor the people in those countries voluntarily wanting them to be in control. And then once they do gain some control, they use military force, covert operations, the denial of freedom of speech, the suppression of information from outside sources, and all kinds of "re-education" type of camps (ie: prisons) and other methods to retrain the populace to think only like powers in control want.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/world...itory-disputes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...20with%20Japan.

For all the BS some of these jackasses on here spew, just remember, you have the right and ability to argue with the rest of us who have to then listen to all your garbage, lies, and false crap. But at least we recognize and allow more than one side to speak their peace and say what they want here in our country. Are we perfect, HELL NO! But instead of complaining about us so much, why not take your crap over to one of these other countries you keep trying to defend, and live there if they are sooooo much better than us. Of course, God forbid that down the road someone in power in that other country does something you end up not agreeing with 100%. And then try to do/say the same kind of crap there that you can get away with here in this country, and I'd advise you to make sure the next time you take a trip anywhere else in that country that you refrain from asking for a penthouse or upper floor room to stay in. Would hate to see you take a walk out on a balcony and accidently slip and fall. Tsk tsk tsk!!!

Yes, I am very well aware. It is used for both. The media and the left billed it as morons advocating using horse dewormer, which is an intentional lie by omission as they pretended it was crazy to take this commonly used human medication by excising this information. We had multiple people in the Covid thread unaware this was, in fact, commonly prescribed to humans.