Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1902175)

A scummy tabloid? Ok, would you like to read it from another source?

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barst...-bernie-madoff

What exactly are you saying, Peter? That these text exchanges never took place? Read the linked article. It gives even more detail about the texts.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1902467)

I would guess all PSA graders and former graders and other employees have NDAs. That said, I would imagine that if there has been anything untoward going on over the years, a grader blowing the whistle could be a major area of vulnerability. As I've said, at this point, nothing would surprise me.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1902393)

Steven I'll accept your premise that PSA is the bigger problem, or the TPGs as a whole. Especially after Orlando's statement today I could not be more disgusted with PSA. It was far worse than Sloan's. And of course I understand that in many cases the government will make a relatively soft deal with a cooperator to get at the more important criminal. I'm just not seeing how going easy on Brent helps the goal of going after PSA. But I'll reflect on it.

One footnote though -- it still takes card doctors and their enablers to bring these cards to market. So it's not like the biggest seller of doctored cards on the planet, and card uhh uhhh conservator himself, isn't still a huge problem.

Originally Posted by BeanTown (Post 1902588)

Is there a place to see the other 50 cards they manipulated the prices along with the dates?

Taken from the article:
Take, for example, a card in the top 100 for PWCC, the 1955 Topps Roberto Clemente card. Clemente is a good example because he is no longer alive, meaning there’s nothing that can really change the perception of his card. Here are the prices reported as sold for a PSA 8 Clemente Rookie:

January 2015 — $29,127
October 2015 — $35,864
May 2016 — $131,450
July 2016 — $150,391
November 2016 — $38,500
November 2018 — $26,400
Why did the price crater in four months in 2016? Because the market-fixers moved on to another card.

This has been done with more than 50 vintage cards (though some of the rises and falls are not as dramatic as the Clemente card) but these cards were in the PWCC index because they were among the most valuable.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1902493)

My understanding is that unlike in the securities area where the government has specific authority to seek relief barring people from the securities industry or barring individuals who commit securities fraud from serving as officers of publicly traded companies, the government does not have similar authority in other lines of business. It would have to be part of a plea bargain, and seems unlikely here.

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1902590)

A nice waste of money for all parties involved.

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1902590)

It's going to boil down to Calvindog suing PSA anyway so I'll just wait for that by the end of the year. I guaran f en tee it.

A nice waste of money for all parties involved.

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge (Post 1902336)

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

Feel free to shoot away.

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge (Post 1902597)

Chuck, if it’s not your money why would you care?

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1902550)

Yep, when customers are slime, taking their money is the best possible comeback. Except maybe sending them to the shop up the street so they can be the competitions problem.

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 (Post 1902613)

Steven,

I have bought many high end cards from your brother over the years, I know this must be a tough time for both of you guys. But in the midst of this thread, there really hasn't been any clarification on Jeff's part pertaining what I'm about to ask.... If he is indeed looking to rectify a problem for collectors, isn't he in fact violating client privilege, or is Huigens pleading the fifth?:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1902571)

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1308245

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=Sloan

Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 1902615)

Man's got a right to do his job; we need criminal defense attorneys to put the government to the test. I could not do it but that's why I keep my practice far away from criminal defense. Family law too; that's some nasty, nasty stuff.

Originally Posted by Mark17 (Post 1902622)

It wasn't very long ago that Leon had a bunch of garbage unfairly thrown at him for not pulling down that PWCC banner quite fast enough..... He didn't ever condone what PWCC did (and was doing,) he didn't excuse it, he didn't stifle criticism of it, and he certainly didn't defend it.

So I'm wondering if the people who had the pitchforks out then are more forgiving when someone (for money) steps up to defend PWCC now.

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge (Post 1902620)

A tough time for us? Why? Actually things couldn’t be better for both of us so not sure what you mean by that?

As for Jeff and Brent and anything else hobby related, I’m not an attorney so not sure how attorney/client privilege plays into any of this or what Brent is planning on doing. For that you’re probably better off consulting with David James as he seems to think he has a better grasp of these topics. Unless of course he’s busy searching for El Chapo’s billions. What I do know though, is after replaying yesterday’s events my most poignant post yet could be the one about self fulfilling prophecy. Why anyone would go out of their way to assist many of you is probably a better question for you to ask?

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1902626)

You obviously missed when he called several of us idiots and morons.:eek:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 (Post 1902613)

Steven,

I have bought many high end cards from your brother over the years, I know this must be a tough time for both of you guys. But in the midst of this thread, there really hasn't been any clarification on Jeff's part pertaining what I'm about to ask.... If he is indeed looking to rectify a problem for collectors, isn't he in fact violating client privilege, or is Huigens pleading the fifth?:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Mark17 (Post 1902628)

Some of us are. What's fun is, we each get to figure out who. :D

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 1902540)

I don't know, but I imagine a court order (supboena, I imagine) outweighs an NDA. IS that correct?

Originally Posted by Tabe (Post 1902631)

My understanding is that an NDA can't be enforced to silence information regarding illegal activities. So a person from PSA or PWCC with information on fraud would be free to disclose it without violating their NDA.

* - I am not a lawyer.

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge (Post 1902597)

Chuck, if it’s not your money why would you care?

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1902623)

Family law, tell me about it. When I was just out of law school my firm was less corporate than it became and we did some of that and it was ugly as hell. In one case I argued and won some motion requiring the husband to pay for something and he starts cursing at me and insulting my abilities right in the courtroom with the judge still on the bench for the next matter, total circus.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1902629)

Kevin I think you're confusing a few concepts here. Attorney client privilege pertains to communications, which the attorney can't waive without the client's consent. But Jeff hasn't disclosed any privileged communications here. I think what you're really asking is can Jeff simultaneously represent Brent as well as the interests of collectors. The answer of course is no, IF there is a conflict then one's duty is solely to one's client. From Jeff's posts he obviously doesn't think there's a conflict; rather, he believes that the same thing that is in Brent's interest -- to cooperate and make restitution -- is also the best deal collectors are going to get out of this fiasco. People can of course disagree with this and have disagreed, and I am not defending that point of view here, just trying to answer your question as I assume after yesterday's ugliness Jeff may choose not to engage with the board over these topics any more. Hope that helps. PS not sure what the 5th Amendment has to do with any of this.

Originally Posted by Mark17 (Post 1902628)

Some of us are. What's fun is, we each get to figure out who. :D

Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1902636)

You're lucky Peter. That's nothing compared to what I've experienced. I'm not sure what's going on Steven but if I were your sibling in this situation I would promptly tell you to shut up.

Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1902636)

You're lucky Peter. That's nothing compared to what I've experienced. I'm not sure what's going on Steven but if I were your sibling in this situation I would promptly tell you to shut up.

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1902626)

You obviously missed when he called several of us idiots and morons.:eek:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1902640)

Why would Jeff tell Steven to shut up?

Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1902642)

And thin skinned.

As for Jeff he absolutely should not be commenting on here period if he's representing El Brento. Stop pressing for it people. I think we should just all drop this thread.

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge (Post 1902639)

Luckily for me you’re not my sibling and seem to have enough problems of your own you should be worrying about.

Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1902644)

His brother is running his mouth and saying all sorts of stuff. Not exactly helping the situation.

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge (Post 1902645)

Kat, let’s hope the phone doesn’t ring tonight and frighten you if big, bad, meanie Leon is on the other end. I hate to stereotype but....

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge (Post 1902645)

Kat, let’s hope the phone doesn’t ring tonight and frighten you if big, bad, meanie Leon is on the other end. I hate to stereotype but....

Originally Posted by leaflover (Post 1902654)

HEY LEON ….. Is the Net54 dinner still on?

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1902655)

With Huigens. Moser, Orlando, and J. Lichtman as speakers. A panel discussion on What's Good for the Hobby.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1902648)

I am missing the concern, sorry. It's a chatboard. Steven's opinions have no effect on Brent's case.

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 (Post 1902653)

I think you're running out of steam my man....Time to move on while the getting is good....

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1902655)

With Huigens. Moser, Orlando, and J. Lichtman as speakers. A panel discussion on What's Good for the Hobby.

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge (Post 1902658)

Kevin, just because you PM’d me to call you on the phone and I didn’t drop what I was doing to call you that minute doesn’t mean you should lash out. I would have gotten to you when I was done with what I was doing. Now why don’t you go find a lava lamp or some puka beads and put them on BST so you can pay the rent this month?

Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1902662)

Still waiting for my PM Steven. Bring it on.

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge (Post 1902658)

Kevin, just because you PM’d me to call you on the phone and I didn’t drop what I was doing to call you that minute doesn’t mean you should lash out. I would have gotten to you when I was done with what I was doing. Now why don’t you go find a lava lamp or some puka beads and put them on BST so you can pay the rent this month?

Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1902657)

Obviously. Jeff can't post anymore and suddenly his brother has all of these jabs and opinions? I mean he said this: "Yes he is my younger brother which only makes me even more infuriated that he would represent such a lying, slimy piece of garbage, who intentionally tried to f*ck me and did so to many of you. But all I can say now is grab of box of popcorn and watch this play out. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win a war."

If Jeter Spaeth said that stuff you'd probably be all cut it out.