Campaigning to be added to more do not sell lists, I see.

Of course, he could always just come on here and lie about a pennant you sold him too, as has been proven. Tread lightly if you dare venture down his rabbit hole. He's a fun suck and not worth the hassle IMO.

BTW...Back so soon?

Quickly realized that one dishonest degenerate is not enough of a reason to keep me away.

And you make a good point, so yes, for all sellers, please DO add me to your “do not sell” list if you knowingly sell altered items without disclosing the alteration. Especially if you did the alteration yourself. Thank you!

Ok, so not exactly the most exciting pennant, but I bought this white Astros pennant from someone who said it had been rolled up for 30+ years. It is still a bit rolly (I'm sure it will adjust over time), but it is about white as I've ever seen for one of these. So many Astros pennants are grungy/having foxing/bug damage from being in the humid Houston area.

Nice. Having been rolled in storage is what kept it from yellowing. These and the Colts pennants with the circular logo are the only ones I know with that copyright inside the logo.

And yes it is interesting how those early Astros and Colt 45 pennants have moth eaten spines .... very hard to find one that is not damaged or even nipped a little. Never considered that it might be weather related.

Pretty sure at this point you don’t need to request that.

For the sake of this thread and everyone on it, I’ll let you have the last word. Have at it.

Hi Marc...

Great Astros pennant. Impossible to find the white cloth version in that great condition with no holes or soiling. Really a beautiful example.

To answer your question... Yes, I do have the elusive 1914 Matty World Tour Pennant. But mine is a unique mustard yellow version. I have never seen this unusual color on any other pennant. Hopefully the annoying sideways pic at least portrays the color accurately.

And to Greg's point, the extended spine is another pretty unique feature. I have seen similar elongated spines (in lieu of tassels) on auto/boat/cycle racing pennants from the teens... a short lived phenomenon, for sure. Attached is a pic of an oversized teens Tacoma Tigers pennant with a similar extended spine (albeit to a lesser extent).

Congrats to Greg for landing the Matty pennant in REA. It was my favorite piece in the entire auction (biased, though I am!)

Mark, yes I have that Tacoma Tigers with the same spine. Those cool WGN pennants from the early 50s have a 2/3-sized version with similar construction. I’ll see if I can find a pic, I don’t own any.

Following up the conversation in another thread. I've now had delivery of a few pennants that I ordered including the 1940s Boston Braves Pennants.

I bought 2 of the same 1940s pennant. As expected the wonky spine on one of them ironed out easily. The reason why the spine looked funny was because one side of the spine isn't attached to the pennant. I've added photos of the back of the pennants where the spine is attached.

Am I right that these look like the spines have been re-sewn. (I don't have a problem with it either way...they didn't cost much.)

That looks like an original production defect to me. I'd remove it and have a tailor or seamstress reattach it correctly. It's a nice pennant. No reason for it to be relegated to life as a freak.

Looks original to me ... hold up to a light and see if there are holes from a previous stitch. These pennants of still unknown origin/maker are very cool but sometimes have production issues with the spine, including two pieces sewn continuously as one.

Thanks Mark, very STOKED to finally own this!! I’ve followed it from auction to auction and proud to say it isn’t going anywhere......👍🏼👍🏼

Thanks. The one that has only one line of stitching on the spine seems to have holes in the spine where it was previously stitched. A light from the back seems to indicate that there was once stitching there too. So for some reason someone removed one line of stitching from spine.

I haven’t posted any pennants recently, but below are some I’ve obtained over the last few months.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...bf1cf4b025.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5ec2ac2ff9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...984ec4cf45.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...eb11823248.jpg

Erik,
That Muskies pennant is incredible. I’ve never seen one. I don’t really look for Muskies stuff, but have some items. I pretty much stick to Mpls Lakers stuff. That Maple Leafs one is really nice too. Some of those used to have a team photo stapled on top where the box is. Others came without. Both had the same writing or print. Either way it awesome and in great shape for a white pennant.

I love that Phillies pennant Erik. It looks to be in great condition. Very nice pickup.

Phillies pennant is extremely rare, and very cool ...

Very nice dude...Never saw that Muskies before. It's getting harder and harder to say that about a pennant.

That is a funky looking Phillies pennant. Love the Giants too.

Awesome Erik!

Two "toughies" and two "impossibles". And amazingly, all four look to be in great condition. Great post, and it's nice to be back talking pennants!

The Phillies pennant is from a distinct but not yet known series, identifiable by a thin coarse texture to the lettering. The Cinderella Boys Giants pennant and the 1954 Indians with the names inside a baseball are from the same maker, as is this Browns pennant. They are all pretty tough and the Phillies may be the toughest.

Four great pennants, Erik! If you ever get tired of the NY Giants, I’m your guy! :p

Thanks, guys. I don’t know if you all agree, but finding rare pennants or ‘good deals’ seems harder and harder. Now, if I only had a display like Jordan!

Any examples of similar pennants to the Phillies and Browns series?

Here are a couple more ...

Have a question, but first this nice addition, got a good deal for it. Tigers had such cool pennants and I loved how they often show the year. Also it is the first 1940-dated pennant for me. It led me to write down the pennants I have with years/dates ... my oldest dated pennant is from 1913, and I have at least one from 1939 through 1969 now, with the exception of 1952 and 1953. It then occurred to me ... I don’t think I’ve seen any dated pennants of any type from 1952 or 53. No dated scroll pennants, and I don’t think there are any WS pennants that denote these years. The Tigers dated their pennants up to 1951, I believe.

Anyone have a 1952 or 1953 dated baseball pennant? Curious ...

There is a 1952 dated scroll pennant for the Brooklyn Dodgers with the Clown mascot. But like so many others, I sold it a few years back. One of about 25 that I really regret selling.

Nice pickup Greg... I sold that one too, a few months ago. :(

Amazing that you got a good deal on it.... prices are climbing fast, and seems impossible to win anything these days. Congrats- it's a beauty.

Amazing graphics! Replicating Cobb's charge into the stands to pummel a disabled heckler, perhaps?

Ugh yes I have the 1952, forgot about it! So that leaves 1953 as the missing link. (Three upper tassels on this one!)

I'm also partial to pennants with a date.

I recently picked up this 1957 Braves pennant. It's not the rarest but the condition was pretty good and the price was right.

Nice one, and a cool design. I like pennants with different ways of displaying player names besides the standard scroll.

Okay who knows what the oldest known scroll pennant is? My guess is the 1939 WS pennant, I think Mark owns it ....

Would this be the oldest dated pennant?

Might be! Is that ‘06 or ‘08?

‘08

That one has eluded me for many years... never owned one, unfortunately. I am experiencing brain fog, but do think that may be the earliest of all the "scroll" pennants.

Below is a pic containing the following year's World Series Pennant (also a double-scroll...)

Here's the one we believe to be the first scroll pennant, featured 1 1/2 years ago in Hunt's...

https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...ent=2019-11-08

And Gehrig is misspelled!

And so are Dahlgren and Vander Meer.... too funny. Simpler times, for sure.

Do you know what that went for? Definitely has some condition issues.

$900...I assume includes BP.

This one has to be a mistake...Just ended Saturday.

https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=420&lot_qual=

Mike: How was this '08 Cubs pennant made? Sewed letter, or screen printed?

I’m too lazy to dig up my password to log in. :p

What did the Brooklyn one go for?

I get emails from most of the auction houses but only get catalogs from a few. I feel like I am probably missing things, but with my focus being only Giants, maybe I’m not.

It's 2021! Computers can store your passwords you know. ;)

Even the estimate seems way low for a pennant described in Excellent condition.

I don’t own it so I can’t say. I stole this photo from Heritage Auctions.

The 1939 Double Scroll Pennant sold for $900 + $157.50 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $1,057.50

The Brooklyn Pennant sold for $2,000 + $350 (the 17.5% BP). Total price realized was $2,350

Prices realized do not include sales tax and shipping.

Figured it had to be a typo but still seems on the low side. That one sold for nearly 6K at Lelands over a decade ago.

Would be interesting to know, my understanding is that screenprinting wasn’t commercial until the early 1910s ....

So I’ve seen the double scroll WS pennant from 1939, 1940, and I have ‘41 and ‘47. Any other years known? I seem to recall a 1945 ...

I've only seen the single-scroll Tigers version from 1945. Can't recall anything else off the top of my head, but would love to see a double-scroll example.

I don't trust that. I'd rather rely on my feeble mind....or not. :p

Whoa! :eek:

Let me guess...Your computer is a desk top. Beige in color, with the monitor adorned in a halo of Post It notes inscribed with all your passwords. :D

No, wise guy....brushed steel iMac....password hints are contained in a fake named document you would never suspect. :cool:

Can I guess? Is it entitled, "My top 10 favorite Dodger players"?

Did I nail it?? :)

It would have to be something the identify thief wouldn't want to look in. He may be a Dodgers fan. Something like..."Rosie O'Donnell Nudes"

:eek:

Here’s another pennant that seems to be from the same manufacturer, based on the texture of the screened letters. Boring but rare pennant

Have "we" (Domer) established who made these? I have quite a few variations with "overlapping" characteristics. I'm pretty sure the batter in the big ball was previously done as a Brooklyn pennant.

BTW - my BIL PDF'ed Kyle's blog into a 349 page :eek: document. I can't imagine what the copy center will want to print it in color. Let me see if it's worthwhile and I could probably send it to anyone who wants a copy. I envision a binder, with tabs for each manufacturer. :cool:

I think they fit the mold of those pennants that were displayed in that banquet picture someone posted awhile back, although these Giants pennants may be older. I believe the batter graphic is the same as that on the Phillies pennant.

I'm certain the first one is by Trench. Trench definitely used that quirky font in the 1950s. And, that baseball/moon-lit batter artwork is a known Trench design, too. We know it was used by Trench ca. 1950--Rick Levy found/posted a 1949 photo documenting this fact. I've seen it on many a Brooklyn Dodger pennant; but, never on a post-1958 Los Angeles Dodgers pennant. It was always monochrome when used on Brooklyn pennants. It was also used on some Yankees and Phillies pennants from what I assume to be the same era. Of note: the Phillies pennant was polychrome.

Interestingly, there's no New York Giants pennant featuring this moon-lit batter artwork; only San Francisco.

As to the others, the problem, for me, is that those latter SF Giants pennants in your evolution don't really look anything like what Trench was making for other teams in the 1960s--especially as concerns stadium pennants. The coloring, in particular, looks like it was applied with water colors, or a very translucent ink. It's also quite vibrant. Most likely these are by Trench, too; but ... I guess you couldn't exclude a copy cat by some bay area pennant maker that only made Giants pennants, right?

I just can't think of other Trench-made baseball pennants from the 1960s that resemble these....

The Browns one does appear to have very similar font. Besides the football player + stars, do you all think the font and the ‘dots’ after the city/name resemble the Browns or Phillies?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4cd96cea72.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, Kyle. Someday, if I'm feeling ambitious, I should add a "maker" column to my pennant spreadsheet(s).

I do. Without a doubt (or dot).

I have always thought that those funky off-colored Giants Pennants were made by a local Northern Cal or Independent manufacturer. As you stated... no other teams had designs or colors even slightly resembling those early '60s Candlestick pennants. They are completely unique to the Giants.

I think you might be onto something Erik.

IMO first one likely not Trench, primarily due to the construction of the pennant. Wide spine, and the white thread that doesn’t match is something I haven’t seen from other known Trench pennants. Also the tassels look very different. The font also resembles that of the following pennants, if I had to guess I’d say it’s from this company that produced these in the pic here and also those pictures in post 4432.

Interesting! Erik, does the paint have the rough texture like in this pic? Hopefully you can see it, it has a fine grid-like pattern to it. That seems to be unique to pennants of this type.

Why couldn’t every maker just put damn labels on their pennants??? :mad: :p

Strangely, Trench applied labels for a very brief time on FB pennants ...

Here are some closeups I took - looks similar to me!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9735bae765.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e2d2a155c0.jpg

Trying to figure out the process that would leave that texture..... :confused:

Interesting, for sure.

Erick, your Eagles pennant is by WGN. Totally sweet design.

I think you're making a good case Greg's St. Louis Browns pennant may be by them, too.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't put too much stock in the texture of screen printed graphics. That "fine grid-like pattern" you reference is the mesh imprint from the stencil carrier. Every maker used these. Some are more pronounced on the final product because, depending on the detail of the design being reproduced, the screen printer would use screens with different mesh counts. This one just looks like they used a coarse screen with a low mesh count.

I printed my "LA Dodgers v. SF Giants "1st. GAME" Pennant (1958)" (https://pennantfactory.weebly.com/bl...e-pennant-1958) using a screen with a mesh count of 160. Anything less than this and the detail of the bridge wouldn't have come out. But for simple designs, like large, block letters with no detail--a lower mesh count will suffice, e.g., 110. Lower mesh counts permit more ink to pass through the screen, resulting in brighter, more opaque graphics.

There's many variables when screen printing a pennant: mesh count of screen used; substrate used (wool, wool blend, or Duvetyne); ink used (lead or non-lead). Within each manufacturer, I'd expect to see evidence of these variables from one design to the next. Therefore, I don't really think each maker had a consistent "screen printing signature" you can use for ID'ing one company from the next. With pennants, that works for things like hand writing, letter scripts, and original artwork used on a piece; but, not so much for screen printing.

With one exception: secondary color applications. The way that each maker added colors to their white underbase during the manufacturing process
did differ. Some used really dull inks (Trench, ADFLAG); others used fluorescent Day-Glo inks (WGN, HANCO).

That’s interesting and it makes sense, but it still seems as if mesh count varies more among manufacturers than within. (Need to perform an ANOVA ... lol.) I only notice this low mesh count on this one style ... not on any of my known Trench or Keezer or even those from the WGN baseball series. ... either way, good stuff

I have a PDF of Kyle's blog. The copy center quoted me $108 to print it in color :eek: . I'm having it printed in black and white for about 20 bucks. If anyone wants a copy, I can send it in a ZIP file. Hit me up at ddgrh8r@gmail.com

Some of you may be able to use company ink... :cool:

If you ever want to get rid of that Braves vs. Indians pennant let me know.

What stinks is, I’d definitely give a reasonable offer for this ... maybe $50?

I think the starting bid was in listed in error, and was meant to be 5,000 pennies. So you should be good-to-go!

Wait. What???? This isn't real? :eek:

The seller said it was found hidden away in great granddad's attic. :mad:

Seriously, this is how bad it's gotten. I needed a Mitchell and Ness repro just to feed the habit. My question is: was this design ever actually used on an NY Giants pennant? I'm thinking Mark might have it.

I wish I did....

Had a great shot at the original teens version in an early Mastro Auction, but opted for something else. The Giants was oversized and in very nice shape... and went for only $800 or so. Sure wish I had a time machine!

M&N did better with the "font" than the Batter. The "GIANTS" is well done, but the Batter is not very faithful to the original. Too bad Mastro's archives are no longer accessible. There's a "needle in a haystack" chance I can find the original image in an old catalog, and will post it if I'm lucky enough to find it.