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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;Everyone, including their cats, dogs and dead relatives! Change!&gt;&gt;<br /><br />Maybe they're just trying to make up for all those perfectly legal voters the Republicans keep trying to get struck off the voter roles.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Bruce,<br /><br />Agree with you on the flat tax and the deportation of illegal immigrants. These are two urgent priorities!<br /><br />Not so much on the other stuff--congrats on your financial moves!

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Who's gonna clean your apartment Jim? Or take care of your kids?<br /><br />(Or pick your produce? Or process your meat? Or bus your restaurant tables? Or... )<br /><br />But wait! maybe I've had you pegged wrong all along, Jim! Maybe, in these difficult times, you really <i>are</i> willing to sacrifice!<br /><br />(Better be a bit careful with those deportations, though. There is the case (for example) of the illegal brought here by his parents for a shot at that "better life" who is now the top neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins. Never know when you might need a good man like that.)

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Deporting 11 million people would be a humanitarian catastrophe. Regardless how you feel on the issue, it can't happen.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"With all those capital trials for drug dealers (none in the tobacco industry, sadly) you ought to have a field day! (As long as Bruces allows them trials.)"<br /><br />David, at least until you're in charge of the country drug dealing is not punishable by death. While I deplore smoking, I also think that smokers should not be put to death even though I know those damn tobacco companies target the unsophisticated, unedcated and minorities. Same goes with one of your students who doesn't show his work on an exam problem -- that really grinds my gears too -- but no death as a penalty, just a point off. I'm also hopeful that humor will be permitted during the revolution. <br />

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>they are unrealistic demagoguery. The staff members of the policy committee of the Dorskind Group needs to look around; this nation survives on the cheap illegal labor that the sieve-like border with Mexico provides. If you want to have your fruit and veggies picked, your meat slaughtered, your office toilets cleaned and your dishes washed when you go to a restaurant, you need to create a pathway towards legalization, not spend billions trying to track down, detain, have hearings for and try to deport 12 million people (plus feed, clothe, shelter and educate the little citizens they spawned). As that noted liberal pinko commie Ronald Reagan said in his signing statement when he signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act: "We have consistently supported a legalization program which is both generous to the alien and fair to the countless thousands of people throughout the world who seek legally to come to America. The legalization provisions in this act will go far to improve the lives of a class of individuals who now must hide in the shadows, without access to many of the benefits of a free and open society. Very soon many of these men and women will be able to step into the sunlight and, ultimately, if they choose, they may become Americans." Then you can tax their incomes and purchases instead of having an underground economy. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Dear David<br /><br />We are surprised that a distinguished liberal professor like yourself<br />would think that all those who choose a career as a domestic worker<br />are here illegally.<br /><br />The fact is that the people in our employ have emigrated here from<br />abroad and have a green card, or in one case is a citizen.<br /><br />We can not, in our view govern, under a multiple set of rules. We can't<br />say it is illegal to be here and then say...ah no citizens want these positions<br />so we should have illegal aliens<br /><br />The only way the law works is if we strictly enforce it.<br /><br />Whilst we are life long, conservative Republicans, our view is that the one<br />special interest group that both major parties have ignored are the American<br />Citizens. As so many economic pundits have stated this economic crisis never<br />had to happen...it was caused by mistakes in judgement by Congress, the Fed,<br />a number of Wall Street Executives, citizens living well beyond their means and<br />to some extent the press.<br /><br />Let's look at all of our problems, pass legislation that makes sense for America<br />and make sure there is no pork attached and the laws are enforced.<br /><br />If we could only take the politics out of Government.<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />Do What's Right For America

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;David, at least until you're in charge of the country drug dealing is not punishable by death.&gt;&gt;<br /><br />Jeff, Jeff, Jeff...<br /><br />Don't you read?<br /><br />I was just pointing out how <i>the Bruces plan</i> for fixing what ails us would be of direct benefit to you.<br /><br />I certainly don't cotton to it.

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Posted By: <b>John K</b><p> Go to www.nytimes.com for op-ed columnist Frank Rich's, "The Terrorist Barack Hussein Obama." Some interesting grist for the mill.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>David, are you capable of discerning humor? If I recall from my college and law school days, all full, tenured professors occasionally were capable of lightening up. After all, what the hell is the point of having a job you can't lose if you can't occasionally laugh at yourself? I at least hope that when the revolution is completed and the evildoers punished you'll kick back a bit and try to smell the roses.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Jim I didn't mean that people should stop buying.<br /><br />People need to pay off debt and SAVE.<br /><br />The banks in turn could then lend out the money that people like me save.<br /><br />Isn't that what this problem is all about? Banks not wanting to lend?<br /><br /><br />WE got ourselves into this problem because people bought things that<br /><br />they can't afford.<br /><br />Yes I'd love to have a flat screen in every room in my house up on the hill<br /><br />overlooking the Hudson river. I can't afford that so I live on a state road<br /><br />and watch TV with binoculours.<br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>John, I read that piece and agree that these are dangerous times on the issue of race, etc. in the McCain campaign. However, I find it incredible that while McCain is constanstly bringing up Ayers he never discusses the Rev. Wright connection -- clearly because he doesn't want to be branded a racist even though Obama's connection to Wright is far more significant than his to Ayers. The one thing that freaks me out the most is the thought of Obama getting elected and then some nut tries to kill him. While I disagree with Obama on many things I do agree that electing a black man will (presumably) do much to heal the racial divide that still exists in America. If something God forbid happens to him as President we as a country are in deep, deep trouble -- and all the gains made on the racism issue will be set back 50 years.

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Posted By: <b>LetsGoBucs</b><p>(a) 200% health tax on all foods which the government (based on some tbd standard) deems unhealthy.<br />This would go along way toward curing most of America's Health Problems. All the tax money<br />collected could be used to fund the healthcare system<br />(b) Death penalty for dealing of all illegal drugs<br />(c) Deportation of all illegal immigrants by 2012<br />(d) Return all illegals in our jails to their home country (except terrorists) and cut off foreign aid<br />to any country that does not accept them<br />(e) Flat tax on income spent -tax incentive for savings<br />-----------------<br /><br />a. respectfully disagree. The last thing we need are government bureaucrats telling us what to eat. I could just see how foods would be added/subtracted from the list - special interests and local congressmen would ruin the concept. Do agree that American's health in general is a concern, especially obesity. Would that also mean mandated exercise every day? Freedom is not something that should be turned over to bureaucrats, and this just smells like the state creeping more and more into our everyday life.<br /><br />b. We already have too many people in jail for small time drug use. I'd actually prefer to get most of these people out of jail. <br /><br />c. We need a workers program with the Mexican government and the Carribean. Charge a fee to get a work permit and also a fee to renew to pay for the program. This would increase tax revenue. I do agree that we have to be tougher on those coming to this country. I support immigration....from Poland, from Ukraine, from Korea, from Japan, from Brazil, etc....but not from Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen. Thats not to say that no one from Yemen can come...but we need to be extremely strict on the criteria. For those already here, commit a crime and you should be on the first train out.<br /><br />d. I agree with this. It would save us money and set an example of law and order.<br /><br />e. This is your best idea IMO. I do think it would need to be done in some sort of combination with income taxes. Those that earn at the very top end should not be allowed to avoid taxes by not spending. The other tricky thing with this is what do you do about spending by Americans overseas? This refers also to my comment about the very top earners....ie those folks could save in year one, move the money to Switzerland in year 2 and then be spending it in Monte Carlo tax free!!<br /><br />I agree that we need to reward savings. Another interesting way to do it would be to get rid of the exemptions for things like houses, cars, hybrids, etc. And replace with some sort of match for proven savings up to a certain dollar amount. So if you earned 50K and saved 5K you reduce your Federal income taxes by 5K. I would also support a limit as I truly believe that everyone must contribute taxes. <br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>If only the country would have had the wisdom to elect Alan Keyes the first black president.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>How can anyone not expect for most to vote democrat after what Bush had put us through? The guy only went into office for egotistical reasons and oil manipulation. He and his pals are so well off that their his families and the next 50,000 generations of them will never know poverty. Obviously stealing money was a reason to go into office and waging war to me is just a way to cover-up taking it and spending it. Why else would someone want this particular job with all the grief and headaches that come with it. It is simple....money and that he doesnt give a flying 'F'about any of the working class people.WHy else would you continue to do all of this to everyone?<br /><br />If there is money to bail out AIG and others ,Katrina (rightfully so),then there should be enough money to bail out the school systems and the depleted law enforcement areas like where I live FLint Michigan and greater Detroit areas to make it a smarter and safer place to live. DO you think that i like to hear that FLint and Detroit rank in the top 5 every year for crime? WHy cannot government step in the crime ridden spots of the USA and help pay the necessary funding to curb these violent impoverished areas. I cannot imagine what 700 million would do to the top 10 worst areas if it were used for legitimate law enforecment. There should be enough money to have policemen in schools to make it safe for inner city youths to get a chance for a safe and sure education. When will we ever have a leader that will say and help do all the right things to where everyone of all races and earning levels can have a little more balance in their lives. Shouldnt this be the accomplishment?<br /><br />On getting more hispanics, blacks to vote I have no problems with that. Though I came from the Evelyn Woodhead speed reading course i may not have read into this part of the post references pertainning....but I will say this that no one complains when the blacks and hispanics are overly solicited in their communties and shopping malls to go into the armed services to fight these wars, so where does the balance come from to them for a brighter and better future. Is it okay for them to be led to believe certain ways are for them , but not to led them to vote for who is best to get them there ?<br /><br />WHen I pray ,I ask God for balance in my life because I will never be perfect. Balance does give you a better understanding that not all things can go your way, but it can also make you feel that all things arent that bad as long as you can have your fair shake .IS this something that everyone gets?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;David, are you capable of discerning humor?&gt;&gt;<br /><br />Unfortunately, only when it's funny. <br /><br />Another of my shortcomings.

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Posted By: <b>bill latzko</b><p>Thank you Dan Koteles, Barry Sloate, Dan Bretta, James Feagin, Dave Atkatz,<br /><br />J.Levine, Jim VB, and the others whose names I haven't mentioned who have so eloquently expressed some reason of sanity and stood up against this right wing drivel often prevalent on this board and which has been the centerpiece of the McPalin hate-filled racist campaign.<br /><br />So many who lived the era of the 60's and the sex drugs, and rock and roll and now find themselves in their $500,000 houses and their $250,001.00 incomes now find it just as convenient to forget the causes that were so important to them. Hypocrisy.<br /><br />Obama/Biden '08

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Posted By: <b>Richard Simon</b><p>Bruce: "America can not afford to take care of anyone beyond its own citizens"<br />Then why have we spent $1 trillion taking "care" of Iraq??<br />No WMD, no connection to 9/11, no plans to attack the US.<br />W. just wanted to show his daddy that he can do more than daddy can.<br />=<br /><br />I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>This has got to be one of the better debates. Obama being played by Broadhurst and McCain being played by Sebastian...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M</a>

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Ok, now I know where it all went wrong... our congress and current administrtation learned math from Lou Costello...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WMi5TUJDso&NR=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WMi5TUJDso&NR=1</a>

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"Unfortunately, only when it's funny."<br /><br />Yeah, there's no knee slapper like kicking a guy in the nuts whose company just disappeared. Now that's good stuff, right? <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>If he deserves it, absolutely.<br /><br />(As hard as you try, Jeff, to make it sound like he's in the same boat as the secretaries and janitors who worked for Lehman, that plow won't scour. Jim was no innocent bystander in the downfall of his company.)

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Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>David:<br /><br />You seem like a bright but socially inept guy. I am sure you would be the same guy that would be whining and crying if the corporate insiders like Jim sold their positions months ago while individual and institutional investors held their positions and took the losses. No? Theoretical physics must be a discipline with at least some consistency. Does that not carry over to the rest of your life?

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>David, your position would arguably have some merit if Jim worked in the area of Lehman that ultimately was the cause of its downfall. Of course, you have no idea what he did at Lehman because through all your wild-eyed rage you neglected to ask him. If in fact he did not directly contribute to Lehman's downfall I hardly think he should be blamed. In short, you believe that anyone at Lehman who made a lot of money is evil and therefore deserves what he gets. That belief is just a little too twisted for me, sorry.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>graded card situations....he'd be the first to agree. I do, however, have some empathy for ANYONE who loses their job. I've always thought that was just the best way to be human and humane about life. But.......then again......some of us don't have tenure to fall back on. I'm sure Jim will be fine as will David and sooner or later all the vitriol here will stop spewing.....take a day or two off from a thread and geez......

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Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>"Jim was no innocent bystander in the downfall of his company."<br /><br />Precisely how did Jim contribute to the downfall of his company?<br /><br />While I respect very much your concern and frustration about the current economic state of affairs and its devasting impact upon the middleclass and those lower in the economic echelon of our society, you being in academia I think should be expected to understand more than most anybody that people are entitled to their views, and that respectful discussion is a good thing. Your posts and indeed gloating about Jim's recent financial losses are anything but respectful.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>"Jim was no innocent bystander in the downfall of his company"<br /><br />I would like to hear what I did so I will be sure not to do it at my new company. Boy if I was instrumental in bringing down two companies I don't know if I could live with myself.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>whitehse</b><p>How can anyone not expect for most to vote democrat after what Bush had put us through? The guy only went into office for egotistical reasons and oil manipulation. He and his pals are so well off that their his families and the next 50,000 generations of them will never know poverty. Obviously stealing money was a reason to go into office and waging war to me is just a way to cover-up taking it and spending it. Why else would someone want this particular job with all the grief and headaches that come with it. It is simple....money and that he doesnt give a flying 'F'about any of the working class people.WHy else would you continue to do all of this to everyone?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I usually stay out of posts like this as mostly they become pissing contests about which side is more right but the statement above made me want to post. While I am a card carrying republican I dont agree with everything Mr Bush has done. As you mentioned " Why else would someone want this particular job with all the grief and headaches that come with it. It is simple....money and that he doesnt give a flying 'F'about any of the working class people.WHy else would you continue to do all of this to everyone?" is this also Mr Obama's intention as well? He has money, he has power, is he also going to be stealing and waging war to cover it up? Or will he find another way to cover up his theft. (sarcasim indicated) This has to be one of the stupidest things I have read on here. given your ideas the only reason why anyone would want the job is the money they could steal. Maybe my George Bailey, small town way of thinking is different from yours but please...dont make accusations like this. It makes you look small.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>Iam not one who gives a ratz, so whatever you say is fine with me.<br /><br />My post reply is opinion just like my header states ,i know nothing about politics, but I know chrachter and you nor Bush has one. Please go back to watching your reruns of "Happy days".<br /><br />The enemy of all wars is money.<br /><br />edited to add: I didnt have a pissing contest with anyone , though I just did write your name with my.

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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>whitehse,<br /><br />At least you got a reminder -- albeit one that's tough to decipher -- about why it's pointless to post in these threads.<br /><br />"ratz" ... beautiful.

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Posted By: <b>whitehse</b><p>I agree it is pointless to post. Too bad some other posters cannot see that their very own words are can be said about their candidate as well. <br /><br />Actually I am watching Andy Griffith and I bet you couldnt even make the 1st letter in my name in cursive.......From what I hear you are still printing you name with crayon. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Whitehse,<br /><br />Everyone with a brain thought the exact same thing as you--you were just the only one to post it.

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Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />We suspect that if Jim Crandall was a factor in the<br />current economic crisis, then Dr. Leftfield<br />is telling his physics students that it was he,<br />not Einstein, who created the theory of relatively.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want

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Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>WHY DO YOU GUYS CONTINUE TO REPSOND TO THIS FOOL....? ?<br /><br />HE IS CREATURE OF THE FREAKEN "BLOGGER-WORLD" AND OCCASIONALLY CRAWLS OUT FROM<br /> UNDER WHATEVER ROCK HIS WORLD IS IN, AND STIRS UP ACRIMONY ON THIS NORMALLY CIV-<br />ILIZED BOARD. HE ADDS NOTHING TO THE CONVERSATION BUT HIS FOUL MOUTH.<br /><br />HIS RAGE BLINDS HIM TO THE REAL FACTS.....JIMMY CARTER STARTED THIS "SNOWBALL" ROL-<br />LING BACK IN THE LATE 1970's WITH ONE OF HIS "FEEL GOOD" ACTS. THEN IN 1993 CLINTON<br />EXSCERBATED IT BY ONE OF HIS FOOLISH EXECUTIVE EDICTS REGARDING FREDDIE MAC & FAN-<br />NIE MAE. <br /><br />BY 2003 BUSH AND GREENSPAN WARNED FREDDIE MAC & FANNIE MAE TO CORRECT THEIR IRRE-<br />SPONSIBLE LENDING PRACTICES. AND, IN 2006 McCAIN WROTE A LETTER (publicly available to<br /> anyone with an open mind willing to read it)....FURTHER WARNING THIS INSTITUTION TO CLEAN<br /> UP THEIR OPERATION.<br /><br />DEMOCRATS BARNEY FRANK AND CHRIS DODD (ALONG WITH PELOSI AND REID) FOUGHT THESE<br /> WARNINGS, WHILE TELLING EVERYONE THAT FREDDIE MAC & FANNIE MAE WERE RESPONSIBLE<br /> INSTITUTIONS.<br /><br />THAT IN A "NUTSHELL" IS HOW THIS CRISES HAS EVOLVED TO WHERE WE ARE AT....! !<br /><br />LET THIS CREATURE OF "GLOOM and DOOM" DISSIPATE. HE CLAIMS TO BE A "PHYSICIST"....SO,<br /> LET HIM TAKE A "PHYSICAL" AND PULL HIS HEAD OUT OF HIS ARSE.<br /><br /><br /> <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>you are my adorning hero. Did you miss me? <br /><br />I bet you and whitehouse are laying next to each other in your "ONESIES" and going, "what do we say to him"?<br /><br />I do not get offended by you pizzants, so let her rip !

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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />The word you wanted to use is <i>adoring</i>, not <i>adorning</i>.<br /><br />Here you go:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adorning" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adorning</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adoring" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adoring</a>

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>you send me "boosegumps" when you talk to me like that. WHat color manties are you wearing under those onesies ? Oops forgot that you are a classic "bat fitch " with bloomers.<br /><br />smootches to you anyway !

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Posted By: <b>David McDonald</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/June08/NoMas.jpg"><br />Take it away, Leon, take it away. Pau already.

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;Dr. Leftfield is telling his physics students that it was he,<br />not Einstein, who created the theory of relatively.&gt;&gt;<br /><br />It <i>was</i> me, Bruces.<br /><br />Einstein created the theory of <i>relativity</i>.<br /><br />One of the cornerstones of all physical theory.<br /><br />The "theory of relatively" came about, on the other hand, when I opined to a student that the Bruces pomposity, although annoying, was relatively harmless.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Yeah, I'd have to agree. This thread has officially jumped the shark.

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;David, your position would arguably have some merit if Jim worked in the area of Lehman that ultimately was the cause of its downfall&gt;&gt;<br /><br />Really, Jeff?<br /><br />Maybe, as an "analyst," he should have analyzed Lehman's own business practices, and the direction their stock was bound to go. Seems that none of Lehman's "analysts" red-flagged their toxic investments. Why not? A few reasons come to mind. Ineptitude, perhaps, or just plain greed.

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Whatsa matter, Teddy?<br /><br />Caps lock key stuck?<br /><br />Try some WD-40.

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;I am sure you would be the same guy that would be whining and crying if the corporate insiders like Jim sold their positions months ago while individual and institutional investors held their positions and took the losses.&gt;&gt;<br /><br />You haven't been paying attention. Jimbo didn't ride the wave to the crapper with his 180,000 shares out of altruism, or a regard for the company.<br /><br />As he stated, they were unvested shares, and he <i>couldn't</i> sell them.<br /><br />(And last I heard, insider trading was illegal. Did the Republicans change that while I wasn't looking?)<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;Your posts and indeed gloating about Jim's recent financial losses are anything but respectful.&gt;&gt;<br /><br />No, Corey, they were not respectful. And with good reason.<br /><br />I have no respect for anyone who uses racist and hateful speech. Constantly--and irrelevantly--using Obama's middle name in order to imply he is an enemy of all good, God-fearing Americans, is no different than using the "n-word."<br /><br />(And his use of the term "Mongoloid" for a Down's Syndrome child is pretty telling, too, of Jim's worldview.)<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"Maybe, as an "analyst," he should have analyzed Lehman's own business practices, and the direction their stock was bound to go. Seems that none of Lehman's "analysts" red-flagged their toxic investments. Why not? A few reasons come to mind. Ineptitude, perhaps, or just plain greed."<br /><br />Do you actually think that an analyst in one discreet sector is responsible for analyzing the entirety of his company's business practices, and the direction of it's stock price? There is no way you could possibly have such a simplistic, obtuse, uneducated view on how this all works. No way.<br />

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Thanks for believing in me, Jeff.<br /><br />I'm touched.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Well, I figured if at the very least you had opposable thumbs then you had enough native intelligence to understand that an oil analyst is not charged with reviewing all of the business practices and investments of a worldwide, multi-billion dollar company as well as understanding the direction his company's stock price would go.<br /><br />Apparently I figured wrong.

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;Apparently I figured wrong.&gt;&gt;<br /><br />Don't sweat it, Jeff.<br /><br />You must be used to doing that by now.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Snappy comeback, David. You really nailed me with that one.<br /><br />So am I to assume that you still believe that an oil analyst is responsible for reviewing all of the business practices and investments of his worldwide, multi-billion dollar company as well as understanding the direction his company's stock price would go?<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Yeah, Jeff, I do.<br /><br />Jim's such a financial maven that Lehman pays him big bucks to analyze the markets, and other companies strengths and weaknesses, and point the direction for future investment.<br /><br />And he can't (or won't) see that his own company is built on a foundation of custard.<br /><br />Keen insight there.

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Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>But to my dear friend Mr. Ted, the Republicans had control of Congress in 2003 so if Bush and Greenspan wanted something done -- they had the perfect opportunity.<br /><br />EVERYONE messed up this event.<br /><br />Rich

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Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>"BY 2003 BUSH AND GREENSPAN WARNED FREDDIE MAC & FANNIE MAE TO CORRECT THEIR IRRE-<br />SPONSIBLE LENDING PRACTICES. AND, IN 2006 McCAIN WROTE A LETTER (publicly available to<br />anyone with an open mind willing to read it)....FURTHER WARNING THIS INSTITUTION TO CLEAN<br />UP THEIR OPERATION.<br /><br />DEMOCRATS BARNEY FRANK AND CHRIS DODD (ALONG WITH PELOSI AND REID) FOUGHT THESE<br />WARNINGS, WHILE TELLING EVERYONE THAT FREDDIE MAC & FANNIE MAE WERE RESPONSIBLE<br />INSTITUTIONS."<br /><br />Thank you Ted for exposing some basic truths that unfortunately few seem to care about. As much, if not more than anything else, these lending practices by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae have created the mess we are in today, and the precarious financial position of much of the middle class. And the reason these practices took place is because of Democratic policies and fundamental lack of understanding of their implications. <br /><br />There seems to be a good political lesson lurking in this election. The way back into the White House is for the party currently out of it to by its policies deliberately tank the economy. So when the next presidential election comes up they can ride the coattails of the inevitable public response of blaming the party that controls the White House. Facts apparently in politics account for little.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Interesting, Corey.<br /><br />The party <i>not</i> in power deliberately tanks the economy.<br /><br />And where was the party <i>in</i> power while all this was going on?

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>I think David's achieved tenure in this thread and he, much like in his world of academia, can sit back in his smug digs and throw his napalm across the bow of the rest of you. He's trolling.......<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>David,<br /><br />Last I looked the Democrats controlled the House and the Senate. They therefore controlled the legislative branch and had complete ability to thawrt any attempts to rein in Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Or, from the opposite perspective, they had the political clout to do something to prevent the middle class from being suckered into taking out loans they could not afford.<br /><br />Tell me something, do you have the same outrage toward Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd that you do toward George Bush?<br><br>

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Posted By: <b>Glyn Parson</b><p>All I can say is thank god I dont use posts on baseball card message boards to get information about the people I can vote for. The vitriol from both sides is very disappointing in such a crucial time. Whomever gets elected I hope we all want them to be succesful in leading us out of this mess and in making the country the best it can be.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /> Glyn

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>This from Alan Greenspan in 2003 according to Bloomberg.com:<br /><br />Greenspan Backs Homeowner Debt as Prices Increase (Update1) <br /><br />By Will Edwards<br /><br />March 22 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. homeowners have amassed a record $6.82 trillion of mortgage debt as real estate values jumped in the past decade, and have borrowed against their homes for spending money. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, the nation's guardian of financial stability, is supporting them. <br /><br />``We know that increases in home values and the borrowing against home equity likely helped cushion the effects of a declining stock market during 2001 and 2002,'' Greenspan said in a Feb. 23 speech in Washington. <br /><br />Some economists including Yale University's Robert Shiller say they disagree with the Fed chairman, arguing that consumers shouldn't use home values to supplement spending when their hourly wages are rising at the slowest pace on record and the savings rate is a third of the last decade's average. As borrowing costs rise, mortgage payments may jump for households with adjustable-rate loans, causing delinquencies, Shiller says. <br /><br />``Lenders are allowing people to borrow more against their house, but Greenspan is saying that home prices are outstripping that,'' said Shiller, a 57-year-old professor of economics at Yale, in a March 18 phone interview from Rome. His 2000 book, ``Irrational Exuberance,'' published before the 2001-2002 market slide, argued that stocks were overvalued. <br /><br />The surge in house values is ``not going to continue,'' Shiller said. ``It's already slowing down in a number of cities, where we could see home price declines. There is a possibility of a real problem. I wouldn't minimize it.'' Last year's 7.5 percent jump in the median house price to $170,000 was the biggest since an 11.7 percent increase in 1980. <br /><br />If need be, I'll dig up where Warren Buffett drubbed Greenspan in a 2003 discussion/debate involving many of these sam eissues.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>From Mortgage Daily News in '04<br /><br />The Chairman, in a series of speeches delivered last week, stated that neither record high oil prices or soaring consumer debt should be of undue concern to the financial markets, nor is the inflated housing market a bubble that is about to burst, destroying the equity of millions of American families. <br /><br />Greenspan famously commented on the "irrational exuberance and unduly escalating stock prices" in 1996. However, he seems comfortable with a housing market where values have risen nearly 40% in the last three years as interest rates dropped to historic lows. In some demographic hot spots such as Las Vegas, Boston, and Washington, D.C. prices have risen even higher - as much as 70% - in the same period. <br /><br />Greenspan stated that the sheer size of the U.S. housing market provides some insulation from a rapid drop in prices and that Americans seemed to be handling their mortgage and other debt well. <br /><br />According to Reuters News Agency, many economists disagree with the Chairman's assessment, calling him a "cheerleader" or complaining, in the words of one bond strategist that "There just doesn't seem to be that much that worries him." <br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>The guy has zero knowledge outside of his little world of physics.<br /><br />You have no idea what you are talking about relative to my former firm and no idea what you are talking about relative to me so why don't you go lock yourself in a little room in Saratoga, NY at that second rate college you are an asst prof at and stare at your hand for a few hours...

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>the Motley Fool lists him prominently among those to blame:<br /><br />Alan Greenspan <br />If not the boldest of the group, then at least the most public, Greenspan, the man many are now blaming for the housing bubble (there were a brave few that piped up years ago), has refused to go quietly into his well-padded retirement. The man charged with providing the country with a financial voice of reason fell far short, so much so that it might be comical if it weren't so tragic.<br /><br />Greenspan's denial of the possibility of a housing bubble has been widely derided in the past year, but a single statement could be excused as human error. However, a quick scan shows that this wasn't a single event. He also promoted the adoption and expansion of adjustable-rate mortgage (ARM) products in early 2004, when short-term rates were at or near historic lows. That same year he claimed, "securitization by Fannie and Freddie allows mortgage originators to separate themselves from almost all aspects of risk associated with mortgage lending." And separate themselves they did, ceasing to perform any kind of due diligence as to the ability of borrowers to pay for the homes they were buying.<br /><br />Now retired from his role as the nation's monetary conscience, Greenspan continues to espouse his, er, theories on the financial crisis through editorials in which he denies any culpability for the events of the past three years. He is also applying his experience and insight as an advisor for Paulson & Company, a hedge fund which cashed in on billions of dollars by calling the collapse of the subprime mortgage market that Greenspan helped create.<br /><br />So it seems some would disagree with the assessment that Alan Greenspan effectively sounded the alarm--no? <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p><a href="http://paxalles.blogs.com/paxalles/2008/09/barney-franks-1.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://paxalles.blogs.com/paxalles/2008/09/barney-franks-1.html</a><br /><br />Barney Franks former flame Herb Moses........a big shot at Fannie Mae..........<br />Things that make you go hmm.........<br />And he's out front and center on the financial bailout........<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>"(a) 200% health tax on all foods which the government (based on some tbd standard) deems unhealthy.<br />This would go along way toward curing most of America's Health Problems."<br /><br />LOL...Bruce do you own a mirror?<br /><br />No offense buddy but I find it hard to believe you're rocking the healthy lifestyle...at least not enough to recommend taxing unhealthy foods...LOL

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;Last I looked the Democrats controlled the House and the Senate. They therefore controlled the legislative branch and had complete ability to thawrt any attempts to rein in Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.&gt;&gt;<br /><br />With a <i>one Senator majority</i>?!<br /><br />Tell me you're joking.<br /><br />And, speaking of consistency, you seem to be saying the Democrats are <i>in</i> power. So which is it?<br /><br />Can't have it both ways, you know.

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>My second-rate college is still in business, Jimbo.

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>&lt;&lt;I think David's achieved tenure in this thread and he, much like in his world of academia, can sit back in his smug digs and throw his napalm across the bow of the rest of you. He's trolling.......&gt;&gt;<br /><br />Got a few mixed metaphors, there, Tom.<br /><br />And not allowing right-wing drivel to go unanswered isn't trolling.

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Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>David:<br /><br />You are a socially inept, bitter, professor of theoretical physics.<br /><br />Have you ever xxxxx? Just curious<br /><br /><br />getting a little too personal (leon)

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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>You're way out of line, there, Cat.<br /><br />(As to your question, perhaps you should xxxxx.)<br /><br />edited per rules (leon)