I’ll take the over

You would have to be a complete idiot to hand over your portfolio to anyone! Now move on down cause' it's my turn! BBEEEUUUUUUAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
BBEEEUUUUUUAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ooohhh sh*t ... that was bad ... I'm feeling better now, so don't worry guys ... I ... BBEEEUUUUUUAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tucking all the trimmed assets away in the vault and letting the ownership change hands without the assets ever seeing the light of day seems like a Registryesque business plan to me. It’s a shame the vault wasn’t ready to go before the Blowout boys uncovered a bit of a problem.:rolleyes:

If you think the Net54 pitchforks are bad, wait until the Feds storm the Vault.:D

Wasnt' PWCC selling like investments bonds or something...like give them 10,000 and they give you back 10,000 plus 5 percent or something..i wonder how that is going...sorry i have not checked their website in awhile.

If a tree falls in the forest with nobody to hear, does it make a sound?

If an asset is ensconced in a vault with nobody to view, does it matter if it is altered?

Exactly!

And if Brent sues Joe, it would be handled by divorce attorneys I reckon.

I call bullshit on the 24 hour armed security guard !

Part of PWCC current marketing campaign is showing an empty office. Wonder who is running their marketing? I hope this is foreshadowing. Two years or less!

Fine. There goes my new job.

Will work for cards

I bet it will be "going" to pay lawyers and refunds...

Not places where you would want to stay ever...:p

I the back of my mind I wouldn’t be surprised if PSA wasn’t off the record taking care of PWCC with all the refunds on bad cards.....maybe not a monetary payback might be something else...at this point I will never trust either company

That's a given, I thought everyone already knew that e-bay was crooked?

Ebay is aware of what's going on. I think it's highly unlikely they take any action.

totally disagree with this argument georgie. It has everything to do with all of us as vested collectors. stop it already with the "what does this have to do with you? It's just about your only argument that is silly.

So, the elite group of folks "the gang of 5" who ran up and bought each other cards through PWCC won't be using them in the future, I imagine. Not too mention, all of Moser altered card work won't be fenced/sold through PWCC like in years past. Plus, no more special flip/bump grading from PSA to PWCC will happen now. Its safe to say, its time for a new business plan!

Two years or less! Pwcc will be out of business and using their personal cards for lawyer payments is my prediction.

Wow, what a great read this thread is!!!

We have a gaggle of crooks, the possibility of a stay in Club Fed, millions of dollars, family bullshit, name-calling, drug kingpins, legal mumbo-jumbo, scams so deep they have piggyback scams on top of them, corporate jerkwads giving their customers the finger...

Wooooooo

I only have one question: does this married lawyer with a girlfriend want another??

Whew, I'm going to need a cold shower now! That was the sexiest Jerry Springer show I ever read!!

PS - I couldn't find the "sarcasm font".

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If any of you are members of Baseball's HOF and receive their periodic publications, you will see that Brent is in a group photo from inside the museum that shows the group cutting the ribbon that opens the new exhibit on baseball cards in Cooperstown.

Fixed it for you.:)

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

How many of the cards are altered?

If history has shown us anything it would be ALL the ones with the cool little PWCC stickers on them.

Haha, a Fixer! Tell me you don't work for PWCC...

Nice recoloring job, for sure. PSA prolly wouldn't catch it.

Thanks!

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Not at the moment, it they walk away scott free from this fiasco I might apply for a job there.

They are looking!

They’re not graders they’re Opinion Givers With lousy Opinions

Never use us, guarantee you won’t get cheated.

Another bullet point they might want to add to their job posting:

• Willingness to turn a blind eye to altered cards (extra compensation provided)

Is this the picture?

As long as its submitted in the special holder. Whoops... Enuff said. Don't want to give away the punch line.

Regardless of whether or not that's the same picture, it's rather nauseating...

But glad to see he was able to borrow a pair of Moser's scissors for the special event!

Take note, FBI... Exhibit #1 ;)

Seen elsewhere
 

Sorry for the language. But it's funny.

I like the graded version without the Topps logo better.

Wait...that card is slabbed as altered! Must not be a pwcc sub....

Lol funny stuff, whoever came up with that card. I bet it would sell as an aceo.

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No it has the PWCC sticker on the back.

At the header of every single page of Net54, IN BOLD...

The only one looking down. That actually says a lot.

Desecrating a sacred site.

What was the ribbon cutting party for? Were they opening up the Steroid (cheating) section at the Hall?

Say it ain't so!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0c503e6c55.jpg

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The ones that were never paid for?

My understanding of the PWCC vault was that it held cards that were sent in by collectors. So, how can PWCC offer these cards to the HOF to display if they didn't really own these cards?

I’m sure they didn’t offer the cards for display without the owner’s knowledge.

I'm not sure of the details. I pulled that snip from an article I saw in a quick Google search...found at baseballhall.org and written by Craig Muder.

I should've noted the source in the post with the snip. Sorry.

I'd guess pwcc owns a few cards itself, but I have no clue.

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I’m a little confused as to where the line is as to what’s ok and what’s not ok? Trimming and altering is bad. Got it. How about shill bidding? Acceptable or not? He who casts stones....

As has been discussed elsewhere. In most places shill bidding in and of itself isn't illegal. The problem is intent and knowledge can make it illegal. Basically if you bid something up but then honor the commitment if you "accidentally" win you're fine. If you conspire with a buddy to run something up, or if you have knowledge of other's max bids and simply force them to max out, then you are breaking the law.

Read Heritage's T&C they actually come right out and state that they reserve the right to shill bid. They don't really have to say it, but, to their credit they do.

21. The Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees consign items to be sold in the Auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots. Auctioneer or affiliates expressly reserve the right to modify any such bids at any time prior to the hammer based upon data made known to the Auctioneer or its affiliates. The Auctioneer may
extend advances, guarantees, or loans to certain consignors.

I think Steven's remark was directed at a specific poster, not a request for information.

Ah, sometimes without using the quote feature, it's hard to know.

I wonder... are they the same scissors that... Nah, couldn't be!

Note how they mention productivity twice. And getting it right not at all.

Oh, PWCC has a vault? Didn't Al Capone have a vault too? Where's Geraldo Rivera?

there may be cans of soda in it

Apparently when applying for a job at PSA, you don't need experience as a forensic document analyst or in handwriting to get this job? I would think it would be necessary, no?

How would that apply to grading cards?

Quite unfortunate. Again, when I was all new to this and just started collecting, specifically pre-war cards as a history nerd, I felt like something was going on. I reported the same names via eBay at least 5-7 years ago. Something seemed off then and it still does now. eBay allowed PWCC and their counterparts to get to where they are today despite those of us reporting them for years saying WTF?

Where do we go from here Peter? eBay allowed this nonsense to grow.

Who is in "the gang of 5?"


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I have been saying these for years....EBAY doesn't give a shit, period.....

No.

FWIW, it was reported on Blowout that Gary Moser's ebay account, whitman111 which became ricky-leo, is now "No Longer A Registered User"

Doesn't mean he's off eBay, but maybe they do care about it a little with the FBI involvement. I wonder if the FBI was tipped off about the odd sales history outages that eBay seemed to cause?

Maybe he took it down himself and has a brand new one.

I know who one of them is, and he usually has a very focused 2 cases of cards at The National that are sort of spaced out like an Apple Store. This year he had like 7 cases fully filled and an entire set break stacked in one of them, and they were more filled like a Target store rather than an Apple Store, and I heard someone walking him down on prices which he never used to do.

Prepare to have the PWCC product sprayed into the wild.

Hmmmm.... if it's who I think you may be describing, wasn't he telling us back in 2016 just to have fun?

Groovy, Peter (hope your brothers and sisters are well). I can hear the Mr. Saying “Now boys......”

I've been saying that as well for at least 4 years. One of the worst companies of all time. They promote fraud at the highest level and then kick you to the Philippines. Amazing idea FU-Bay had, but not policing their site has made them complicit to all the crimes committed through them.

Brady ... bunch?

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Here's why I would trust a Forensic Document Examiner over a grader any day of the week -

"Forensic document examiners, also often referred to as questioned document examiners, are forensic scientists who are responsible for using a number of scientific processes and methods for examining documents—whether written, typed, or printed—related to a crime scene investigation.

Forensic document examiners should not to be confused with graphologists, who are handwriting analysis practitioners that claim to be able to discern personality characteristics based on handwriting features. Graphology is largely viewed as a pseudoscience in the eyes of the scientific community.

Forensic document examiners, on the other hand, are skilled forensics scientists with a demonstrated expertise in applied questioned document examination. They are handwriting experts, as well as experts in other areas of document examination, including machine printing processes; and obliterated, indented and erased entries.

The most common type of questioned document examination involves identifying the authorship of a written letter. It is also common for forensic document examiners to determine if an item originated from the same source as a known item, determine when a document was produced, and decipher information on a document that has been erased, hidden, or obscured.

Forensic document examiners may perform the following:

Examine documents for signs that they have been forged or altered
Compare signatures and handwriting through handwriting analysis to determine the authorship of documents
Examine typed documents and link them to specific machines or computers (printing process examinations)
Decipher the contents of documents that have been partially destroyed or altered
Compare fractured or cut-edge comparisons on a variety of surfaces, including paper and tape
Examine incidents of indented writing
Perform alternate light source examinations to determine ink discrimination, alterations, and/or enhancements
Forensic document examiners commonly work in local, state or federal crime labs. A number of these professionals work through private investigative companies, although this type of work is generally geared toward civil cases. Forensic document examiners are also often called to testify as experts in criminal cases".*

*crimesceneinvestigatoredu.org

I absolutely agree. I couldn't care less about what number is assigned to a card. I leave the aesthetic opinions up to my own eyes. I don't need a third party for that. I want a grading company to confirm that a card is authentic and unaltered. I guess we're all waiting for a reliable company to provide that service.

That was PSA's initial advertising pitch as I recall -- an antidote to card doctors. Thus the "A" in PSA. The irony is rich.

PWCC has their vaunted vault (please use "vaunted vault" going forward when referring to the "vault":D) at the National consisting of high grade cards in modest display cases on several easels that are not secured to the floor. They do have a uniformed guard however. Once the show closes each evening the vault is moved to an undisclosed location with the uniformed guard. At the conclusion of the show the vaunted vault will be transported back to Oregon in a used Brinks Truck recently purchased by PWCC. The truck is festooned with a variety of stickers to misdirect highway bandits regarding the truck's contents.

The National display is so innovative in concept that it will be set up the same way at their Oregon edifice. After all, what's good for the hobby is good for the lobby.;):eek:

Nearly all of that is about judging the content or authorship of a written or typed document. If the card is signed, sure.
Maybe it's just a side effect of the number of crooked autograph authenticators that claim to be "forensic document examiners" (See the autograph section for more info)

In a general sense, they could probably identify some bad alterations, but getting it right on an alteration that's done well? That takes specific specialized information, which I don't believe most of them have.
It wouldn't be hard for them to get it, but the specialized info isn't something they just know.

Whats good for the Hobby is good for the Lobby.......Dang thats awesome!!!

They better not call that the 'hobby lobby' as the name is already taken..

Of course when they open in London they will use a bobby in the lobby to guard their Cobby.

PWCC and owners of altered cards now going on the offensive against message boards.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4160

Will be interesting to see if this kind of thing actually makes it into court. Would be interesting to see Beckett graders called in as "expert" witnesses and then get shown a mountain of trimmed cards in their slabs proving them wrong.

Probably the last place I would go to have something re-examined is the place that is accused of getting it wrong the first time and which stands to take a big financial hit if it can be shown they erred. This comment is not intended to single out Beckett, but is simply to make the point that in order for a re-examination to have significant meaning, it needs to be conducted by a company that has no economic stake in the outcome.

John, can you post a link to the Blowout thread that analyzes the card and determines its been altered? Thanks

Post 6606

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=266

Thanks for the update. Really what else would you expect from a bunch of scamming pieces of trash.

I was wondering they were gonna start threatening the people who out their crimes.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=262

You can start at post 6547 (page 262) re the Giannis card...

Start at the beginning of you want to read a horror book