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What’s next
While my natural inclination is one of moderation, I have to admit it is pretty evident that we have a full-blown scandal. My question is how do we police ourselves going forward? Given that PSA and PWCC have roles in this scandal that fall somewhere between gross incompetence and indictment, it’s pretty clear they shouldn’t be writing the rules. Maybe it’s time that we form the trade association that polices itself and forms the rules of the road?
I think this scandal has shown that in the years since Mastro not much has changed. Even assuming that individuals in this scandal are brought to justice, if the controls in place do not change then we are just beginning the countdown to the next scandal. Rob Kasenter |
It's fine to talk about a trade association but who's going to do the actual work to put one together, draw up the charter, recruit collectors, convince dealers to join, get funding, etc.?
The other problem is we (not singling anyone out) as a group continue to do business with the bad actors, because we can't resist stuff, or money, or whatever. So there is effectively no private enforcement mechanism against bad behavior. |
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Look for the Joe DiMaggio thread on Blowout. That implicates PWCC. Timelines and everything... There are several threads where BODA folks have been able to figure out who submitted cards, the timelines and when they were sold, some cases several times....As someone else has mentioned reading the threads will answer your questions... |
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Having said that, and in advance I want to commend corndog on BO on the time and effort he and others are putting into this. I have, however, to question this Gehrig card:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109 While there are many, many similarities between the two items pictured, I wonder how the white print dots appear on the "conserved" card, at the right top of his forehead, plus on the brim of the cap. Further, there appears to be a nick in the top of the card just left of center. These types of things would not be the types of things that a card doctor would add. Not trying to defend anyone involved in this scam, but treat this as I need help understanding. [/QUOTE] Actually there have been a couple of Blowout threads where the "surgeons" have added or enhanced a defect to throw people off the scent. These "surgeons" know what they are doing and are scary good at it... |
It looks like the same card to me.....
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You down with SGC?
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I used to love SGC, and had my entire first T206 set encapsulated by SGC. But all the folks that made SGC so great are now at REA. I have given up on them. |
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PSA card sales at National???
Gee I wonder how many folks will be buying PSA slabbed assets at the national now that this whole fraud thing is blowing up? Feel bad for the dealers that are spending thousands to set up and may not sell much....
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Dimaggio link?
Anybody have a link to the PWCC Dimaggio stuff on blowout?
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Here you are. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=dimaggio |
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Yeah sure I am removing scans of cards...are you crazy...first of all looking at every single one of those cards they have used in their proof. All images before alteration have come from Worthpoint or PWCC and after alteration from PWCC. Not one single link or image has been pointed towards VCP. So tell me why would i be deleting images. |
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It's going to take more than keyboard indignation to effect any change. |
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What I'm finding infuriating is not just the perpetrators but the people who continue to either defend them, downplay the situation, or look the other way.
There. I feel better. Well, not really. |
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The PSA slab is magic don't you know. It increases the value and magically makes the card whatever the flip says it is. |
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Did Brent Mastro buy your site and shut it down or did Brent Mastro complain to E-BAY that Moser's E-bay Identity was compromised and then shut you down? THAT's WHY. He's the RING leader, your advertiser. IMHO. When you lie in bed with snakes, sometimes things like this happen. I appreciate your site and used it to research my 52 Mantle purchase. Thank you. It was not PSA. I hope you are not out of business now? That does suck. Sorry. |
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Your site showed the backs BACK FROM 2015. |
Bobby, Just kind of thinking out loud since you own a platform that may be able to help collectors but does your software capture the cert number? If so, can you flag those certs that have been identified as being trimmed/enhanced/whatever else you want to call them? By doing so, that will flag those cards as being suspect and future buyers would know they might not be appropriately graded (at least until they are cracked out and resubmitted).
DJ |
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I find it difficult to understand after the write-up that states “This comes from a raw collection which we’ve had the pleasure of brokering pieces over the years” people are exonerating PWCC. This card was purchased by Moser. If that is the raw collection from which it came, PWCC had reason to believe it was altered and decided to have it graded anyway. Up until this one - I was open to the idea PWCC was consigned bad graded cards and unwittingly selling them.
The ire towards PWCC over PSA is this knowledge. PSA missed alterations and slabbed bad cards. However I do not think they were knowingly working with a card doctor to do so. I hope someone with an altered card come forward and seeks restitution. PSA has their guarantee - I hope to see evidence they honor it on one or more of these cards unless PWCC does the right thing and refunds their customer. Either way if someone comes forward and is not made whole - then the attention will shift to PSA. |
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Why don't you lead the charge? Let's start an online petition - a new thread - and everyone that's willing to stand up and stop doing business with PWCC and PSA sign their name to the thread. Lead by example, Peter. Or is it too easy to point the finger at PWCC while turning a blind eye to PSA? |
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I would like to see some examples of these missing images but no one has submitted a "Report a Problem" on VCP for me to look into the matter. Think I saw somewhere the seller Probstein was brought up and if that is the case he did not provide back images for years so there would not even be a back image to delete. Not all sellers provide back images. We can only pull what is there and not something out of thin air if it does not exist. |
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The answer is simple enough:
--Stop dealing with PWCC; --Stop dealing with PSA; --Cancel your VCP subscription. And let the latter two know why. |
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But let's see who actually will. Like I said, we need to start a new thread with those willing to do this and sign their names to it - a pledge - and hold people accountable to their pledge. I'll sign it. Anybody else? |
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Once those cards are slabbed, they can re-appear anywhere. Even if PWCC is eventually disbanded, the PSA cards are still out there in mass quantities. The "blind faith" in PSA is what drives the corruption, and has forever called their product into question. It's not like Chipotle, who suffered a temporary setback with the tainted food scandal. Bad food can be destroyed and is then gone forever. So eventually all is forgotten. NOT the case here, however... we will never truly know how deep the PSA infection runs, or how many tainted cards continue to reside in collections, will be traded, have already been traded, and eventually will be passed down. It's not pleasant, and is not what people want to hear (given their personal stake in PSA Graded Cards). But unfortunately what we've seen this past month is the perverbial the tip of the iceberg. |
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It's amazing. The same evil sorcery that caused the bizarre purge of back scans from PWCC website after their "server crossover" has now struck poor VCP! What cruel priestess spins such a wicked spell on our beloved hobby stalwarts??? Why must such unexplainable disease burden the back scan??? Hath god spited the card number? Perhaps he tired of thou outdated statistics???
Who will be the next victim in this completely random PWCC pre-2015 back scan-only virus??? Quick! Everyone to their hard drives! There's no telling if you've been afflicted! |
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Seems to work fine.. |
https://forums.collectors.com/discus...s-vault-option
This along with another forum on PSA is currently ongoing and PSA is letting it run its course as long as everyone stays civil. Todd Tobias who works at PSA did say that Sloan is gathering all information on PWCC and once he has details will be making some sort of announcement, but in short PSA is not ignoring this. And here is another link to Collectors Universe Forum: https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ned-by-pwcc/p4 |
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And then it's business as usual, and they all live happily ever after. |
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That is silly to put Bobby/VCP in that group for now. Has it been proven he actually done anything. Adding Bobby would be like you not visiting this site because PWCC is the largest advertiser here. |
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That they somehow are surviving despite their best efforts to kill themselves is more a testament to the outrageous waiting times for PSA grading than support for their current business model. |
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