It's Schultz's fault, he's very inarticulate, even for a lawyer. :D:D

well said Lee




Carter

If you are going to be a big time seller sometimes you need to make a decision that is best for the future of your business even though you may not feel it is right or good for you. Just by communicating with the buyer it would have been much better for you.
This transaction is going to cost you way more than 1k not matter what the outcome.

Even the posters that are on you side in public will have second thoughts before they bid in your auctions again and there will be many that will never bid again. Outcome-you lose way more than 1k.

What Jim said.

+1

HUH? What's that mean?

(No. Realy. What's it supposed to mean?)
:D

I know one thing, i am going to get hot and heavy into buying gai, bvg, and pro graded t206s at ridiculous prices. I am then going to submit them to psa or sgc to at least try and cross them to a comparable grade. If they say evidence of trimming or alteration, i will promptly return them to the poor seller for a full refund. After collecting t206s for over 15 years, i have found a new, nothing-to-lose system. Thank you to all on this thread who have made me see the light, and the dollar$.

Agreed...

Anyways, while I kinda wanna side with Caters here, as I have in previous days. Because I don't think either the seller or buyer are 100% right or wrong in this situation. I've stated earlier that the seller should give a refund, but also shouldn't have to. Basically, just because you don't have to do something, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I honestly hope Todd does get his money back.

I for one won't buy from this guy. Not because of anything necessarily said during this forum, but due to knowing who he is now.

Nothing to lose except grading fees, shipping, and return shipping and all the associated insurance costs. Ebay wont let you return it if just not a good cross over grade, only if the cardr shows evidence of tampering. So thats going to get pretty expensive for you considering youll only be able to return them if they come back as being altered. Not to mention you will have a quickly dwindeling list of sellers that are willing to deal with you.

Jezz- wow, thanks for informing me. Your 15 total posts on net54 brings alot to the table.

ctownboy
 

Guess you should read the rules section, David? You have a private message in your inbox for calling me out in this thread. I have sold many items in good faith, many cars, cards and furniture. Sue the expert that gives you the opinion, not the seller. I have been man enough to sign my name to many apprasials and stand behind them.

Rawn Hill

No problem, your unpleasant attitude does the same.

wow...this is shaping up to be the cage match to end all cage matches!!!

This is a good point. However, one problem with this is that some sellers on ebay take consignments from others (e.g., just_collect, prewarsportscards, etc). Now are these sellers supposed to reject all GAI cards that come to them?

I've had dealings with Carterscards on ebay and have bought some nice T206's from them. I think a couple of times I found some suspicious bidding patterns by low feedback bidders, thats all.
I can't say technically or legally who is in the right or wrong here. i think as a reputable seller, Carterscards might want to think about refunding the buyers money. I personally feel he is not obligated to do so. When you buy a graded card from some TPG's you are taking the same chance as buying it raw.
I had a similar experience back in 2007 with GAI graded N172's. I bought a couple off of a reputable ebayer and sent them to PSA to be crossed over. Both came back as having been altered. I informed the seller and told him I was now pretty sure the cards had been re-backed. He refunded my money , and got ahold of other sellers that had bought cards from this "find" and told them they may have re-backed cards and that he would refund their $$ as well. I don't know if that seller is a member here or not, but he is an example of one of the good guys in the hobby.

This thread really is turning into a lulu.

I know the knee jerk reaction is that the buyer is always right and the seller should offer a refund no questions asked. But there are a lot of very good sellers out there who may be taken advantage of by rogue buyers who are looking to make a quick buck at the seller's expense.

If I knew I could return any card I wanted within 7 days, couldn't I buy an entire dealer's inventory, spend six days selling as many cards as I am able for a profit, and then return all the unsold ones on the seventh day? My point is that buyers can be bad too. Instead of a blanket statement, let me suggest that each situation should be looked at before a decision is made. Let's be fair to both buyers and sellers.

And of course I am not saying that Todd is wrong here. Frankly, I place 100% of the blame on GAI. Todd bought a card, Carter's sold a card. If GAI did their job right this thread wouldn't have even begun.

But Barry how do you know GAI was wrong? Maybe SGC got it wrong. If the card was sent to PSA & Beckett and they all deemed it trimmed then I would say SGC was correct but right now who knows who got it right.

I know Howard, I've never seen the card in person. But looking at the scan, and listening to Todd's description of it, I'm going to go with the idea that SGC got it right. Just a hunch.

But a hunch won't win in court.

Barry...I respect SGC (for the most part)....do realize that they make mistakes....I can show roughly 50 cracked slabs from an entire set that I had graded that they totally blew out of the water. If I had known they were unfamiliar with the issue, I never would have subbed the entire set with them to begin with!

No, it won't win in court. It's just an opinion for the chatboard.

Guys- there is one way to look at this. A hundred years from now, who will give a @#$%?

Or 2 days from now.:D

Or RIGHT NOW! very entertaining thread though.

Are we done?

I will say this, i think the posting of the newspaper article was somewhat uncalled for (PUP). Carters had excellent feedback on many transactions until this incident. No need to go that far back in a man's past. What's the saying? What goes around......

Oh, I promise you it will get a lot better tomorrow. A little birdie told me so.

David- somehow or another, i believe you.

I disagree. When sellers in the hobby have been convicted of felonies like embezzlement (or, in the case of others, fraud or even rape), I think we have a right to know who we are buying from.

All the more reason to keep a low profile and respond to upset customers who might get extremely upset and go venting in public, exposing possible shilling, bringing up public records that might include embezzling 1.6 million dollars. The domino effect could've been avoided with a simple response, a response from someone who claims great customer service. What we've got here is failure to communicate.



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What do you have for me Kevin. What is coming around?? Not sure but you sound like you may be threatening me here. May not be the best suggestion. I don't file lawsuits. HINT HINT. Never had an issue with you in the past and would like to keep it that way. So I hope I am reading that comment out of context.

All I see here is a bad deal in which Todd got a bad card and a seller that will not respond to a simple request but then has some incriminating evidence of shilling and has a nasty past history. I have my beef with Carters from a few yrs back anyways. This info just seemed to fit the bill here.

Who cares if Todd was to submit to PSA, Beckett, and SGC for opinions and they all came back Evidence of Tampering. Does this change the simple fact that the seller is refusing to speak with him in regards to this incident. This would indicate guilt typically.

Andrew- i did not mean anything personally. I absolutely have no beef with you at all. As far as past legal issues with the seller, maybe members do need to know about that. I just felt like with the card already being graded, that point might not have been necessary. I do agree on the lack of communication, no excuse for that if that is what happened. Sorry for any things said taken the wrong way. I think that this thread has brought out alot of negative things, and maybe emotions got the best of alot of us.

To Clear Things Up
 

This is our first and last post on this site. We are not going to get ourselves involved in this circus that this thread has apparently become. The only reason we are even posting is to make everyone aware of what actually is going on here. For those customers of ours that have had nothing but positive experiences with us, thank you for your continued business and support.

In terms of the original post here from Todd, this is our position. We have been on ebay for over 10 years and have successfully completed 4,200+ transactions without a single incident. Each and every time we have an unsatisfied customer, we make it right immediately (as can clearly be seen in our feedback and our 5.0 star communication). For those that question our communication and customer service, our 5.0 perfect star rating should quickly end that discussion. Having said that, there is a point where an honest, customer service based business can get taken advantage of, and this is one of those instances. So ... here is the situation in a nutshell.

Within 2 days after Todd won this card, we were contacted by 2 other very reputable sellers (who WILL remain anonymous) and warned us that Todd may want to return the card down the road if things "don't work out" with either SGC or PSA. To make this more clear, Todd purchases GAI graded cards for 20% of their value (since we ALL know the risks associated with GAI) and if the cards cross to SGC or PSA he 5X his money. If they do not, he asks for a refund. In other words in this transaction, Todd either turns his $1,000 into $5,000 or gets his original investment back. Call us crazy, but this is clearly a scam. Because Todd pulls this act with ONLY very reputable sellers, he figures they will not want the hassle he may create (as he did here) and therefore they will return the money and he can't lose.

Well, we have decided to be the ones to stand up for the sellers out there and make a statement. See, we delivered the EXACT CARD that was described in the auction to Todd. He knew EXACTLY what he would be receiving and he knew EXACTLY what the risks were of purchasing a GAI graded card. Todd is a very smart person and has been a collector for a long time. He knows this exact same card in an SGC or PSA holder is worth many times what he paid. He also knows that he got this card at a huge discount because it was in a GAI holder and that there are implied risks of purchasing GAI graded cards. However, as he has done in the past, he figured if he sent the card off to SGC or PSA and they concluded there may be an issue, we would quickly refund his money. This time, Todd, you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

We want to point that many times buyers are unhappy for a myriad of reasons. In fact, 3 weeks ago a gentleman purchased $4,000+ worth of cards from us and emailed us 1 week later stating that his wife became ill and he really needed his money back for the cards to help with the doctor bills that were coming. He overnighted the cards back and we paypalled him his money back within 5 minutes of the receipt of the cards. If customers are honest and straight forward with us, we will always be with them. However, if customers are looking to "take advantage of us because we are honest sellers" we will not stand for this. As many of you have pointed out, we could have clearly refunded Todd his money and relisted the card. However, in doing so, we would be enabling Todd to take advantage of other sellers in the future and ultimately this behavior affects everyone in the hobby as prices have to be raised and sellers become less willing to work with their buyers.

To wrap things up, we just want to address the communication thing. When buyers out there are in the business of taking advantage of good sellers (like us), they DO NOT deserve the courtesy of our time to communicate back with them. As we have pointed out and another poster has pointed out, Todd knew exactly what he was doing here and clearly did not deserve any return communication from us. We quickly sent the claim to ebay and will let them deal with this. We just hope that this whole circus comes to an end and other buyers out there stay honest with us good sellers and we promise to return the favor.

Carterscards2006 will continue to ALWAYS provide each and every customer with top notch customer service and we will ALWAYS put the customer first as long as they do not try to deceive us. Our feedback proves that we have never had a dissatisfied customer in 10 years and 4,200+ transactions and you have our word we will continue to do provide the same first class service in the future.

Thank you, once again, to all of our great customers out there and we look forward to dealing with all of you for many years to come!!!

So there is a network of sellers who are tracking each and every move Todd makes and then warn other sellers he might back out, not one but two sellers ? So if GAI only sell for 20% of PSA or SGC, why wouldn't the seller cross them and get 80% more?

Come on johnny, can't this damn thing just die????

are "highly reputable sellers" able to see the high bids of each auction? must be a new ebay feature i'm not aware of.

from corresponding with todd the past 7-8 years this type of action would be the opposite of something i'd imagine him doing. he hardly ever sell anything and i'm not sure with his job he'd have time to scheme or if it's even worth his time.

re:gai's stigma...yea makes sense to leave it in the holder selling for 20% and giving bidders free shots

It will die when there's no more interest. You expect there to be no comments after this afternoon's lengthy post? Really?

I'm going to need way more popcorn.

Once again, why did todd send it to sgc in the first place? He never mentioned suspecting it of being trimmed and then sending it off to get a second opinion. He said that he submitted it and that's what sgc said. If it had come back an sgc 88, what would todd have done? A bonus to carter's favorite charity? Come on!

possible shill bidding wasn't addressed by carter. i initially sided with seller...but not anymore...should be an open and shut case for Todd.

Let me just say that I have purchased from you before without any issue. I do disagree your theory of communication. I don't understand how not communicating is a good solution for anything. I can't say definitively either way who is right or wrong, I am not sure anyone can, but I don't think it is a good practice to not communicate in certain situations.

If Todd popped the GAI slab then the seller should not accept a return. Items should be returned as purchased, period. If card is still in the GAI holder and no matter what the auction states "as is" "no returns" and Todd is unhappy, seller should refund fully with shipping both ways. There are no "as is" auctions when buying with paypal.

I just accepted a return on a PSA 9 MINT Dixie Lid that was labeled 1952 but is actually a 1953. The collector, and I say collector cause he didn't care about the # on the flip, wanted the 1953 lid and only looked at the title. This was an easy refund + shipping both ways.

I have known Todd awhile and trust everything he says.

I do not know Carter's Cards but have seen them selling like crazy recently and some real neat stuff.

Dan Mckee

Rob, totally agree. Lack of communication is definitely not the answer. I own a fairly large company and when there is a problem, the best time to tackle it is immediately. Defuse the problem if you will before the situation festers. I will say for the record that i have never heard anything negative said about todd on this forum, however, i have purchased many high dollar vintage cards from carters without a single issue.

As far as I'm concerned the Cartercards post is anonymous and as such carries no weight in the discussion.

Now if the poster wants to identify him/herself maybe I'll take a second look.

"Within 2 days after Todd won this card, we were contacted by 2 other very reputable sellers (who WILL remain anonymous) and warned us that Todd may want to return the card down the road if things "don't work out" with either SGC or PSA."

Sure.

Rob,

You are exactly right. Although I side with the seller on this issue, he could have at least communicated with the buyer even if he planned on doing nothing to compensate him.

Here's the part I have a problem with though. The only thing the seller is guilty of in this situation is lack of communication. Forget about the shill bidding (didn't happen on this item), forget about the criminal history (irrelevant to the situation) and forget about the other crap that has been mentioned that really doesn't pertain to this situation. The bottom line is that the only thing the seller did was fail to communicate with the buyer. I think we can all agree on that.

That said, do we really need a thread titled "Beware Carterssards2006" to point out the seller's communication skills (or lack of)? Exactly what are we supposed to "beware" of? Are we supposed to beware that Carterscards doesn't communicate? So what? Did we really need a thread for that?

Someone stated that this problem might hurt the seller on future transactions. That’s probably true. But let me also state that it might bite the buyer in the butt too. I have blocked this buyer from ever bidding on my auctions. I know for a fact others have too. I just don’t need these types of headaches where a buyer wants to whine because a card from one TPG wouldn’t cross over to another TPG. That’s what BBLs are for – PIA buyers.

I am calling Bull!!! You will do that for one buyer but not another irregardless of reason. I also bet the buyer sold them back at a small loss to ensure you could make a profit. You didn't address the shilling or money fraud either.

I am also on board with peter's comment. Who knew that Todd bought the card?????? Unless you knew already the card was trimmed and sold it anyways, and told someone and they knew Todd and said he might want to return it. That sounds believable.

It's interesting how, in my experience anyway, people who habitually lie tend to do so in the same way.

Nope, not new. Always been there. I had a simliar situations where I had a deadbeat bidder on one of my auctions and I followed him around on eBay letting other sellers know that he was a deadbeat bidder bidding on their items.

Pretty simple actually. Just do and advanced search by bidder and it will pull up all the items that they are currently bidding on.

Learn something new every day, huh?

I'm sorry Peter:( Does it really show that bad:confused:

Gee Todd you musta really pissed two people off who care enough about you to be tracking you and then warning sellers when you win cards. :D:D:D