Well I might be wrong about PSA eventually slabbing pennants. Just saw that they're actually doing this...

Probably the only thing preventing them from slabbing pennants is the sheer size of the slab needed. Can you imagine one of the oversized pennants being incased with a label at one end? But I have no doubt they would do it if someone was willing to pay. After all, it’s all about money and absolutely nothing about authenticity or grades.

I think because it is too hard to pin down a production date, slabbing wouldn’t be feasible. Like there’s that white on brown STL Browns pennant with the brownie ... you see it on eBay every now and then usually advertised as original, but it is without question 1970s stock. Repro? But there wasn’t a pennant ever that looked like this. .... Also as someone wrote earlier there is plenty of variability in size, if they would treat this like off centered cards then they could go jump in a lake.

One thing is for sure, there will never be a slabbed pennant on the wood paneling. NEVER!

They would have the “experts” and their opinions would be unassailable! :p

It still would be debatable as far as whether it would be worth their while to get into pennants. The slabbing of cards created scarcity from plenty. There are (relatively) lots of 1952 Mantles around but the Gem Mint 10 Mantles is a desirable category created out of thin air. With pennants - particularly the ones that approach or exceed four figures - there already is scarcity.

Here’s the Reds pennant I mentioned earlier. Not sure why I got this. Weird dimensions. I’ve seen this before with the date by the tip. I seem to recall this discussed here a long time ago?

If PSA got into slabbing pennants, can you imagine the number of trimmed/altered and repro pennants that would make their way into their holders? It would be really ugly as well as serving no purpose to the collector.

Greg... Does that oddball Reds Pennant fit into a standard pennant sleeve?

Nope ... it is 17” wide and 35” long. Here’s a pic with a rigid holder on top of it, tip to tip. Even typical oversized pennants are still proportional as far as H/W. This one would have looked better if it was 14-15” wide.

PSA would have to hold a job fair in this thread. Most people don't know a pennant from a peanut. There is honestly no chance that they'd be a better authority than the crew posting here.

When has that ever stopped them? They’re the authority because they say they’re the authority. :cool:

Ebay pennant searches continue to be fruitless. Anything that turns up is either ultra common, badly damaged, modern junk or way overpriced. Seems almost pointless to waste time searching any longer.

Although I did find this very interesting and unique Eagles Penna

We all know about full size and 3/4 size pennants. But that particular seller introduces us to the ultra-rare 2/3 size. For only a $28 opening bid and $20.40 shipping, that Eagles Penna could some day be yours.

And here's a lovely Chiefs Penn, but it's gonna run you $11 more. Everybody set your snipes!

Same seller, huh? They specialize in pennas.

I can’t believe it hasn’t been sold (or eaten) yet!

It’s a shame, too ... the Chief with the white pants is a bit tougher ...

The white pants really held up well to whatever in the heck happened to that pennant. I need to get some of that paint for my house.

The 20" pennas jokes practically write themselves.

The ultra rare "Philade" Eagles pennant which ironically enough came on a "Filleted" (or "Flayed", you decide) pennant.

Ebay has been so bad I can't even remember the last time I searched the sold listings and saw something I was disappointed I didn't get.

I threw these two onto my watch list simply because there was very little action on them. I generally don't get to into Army or Navy pennants unless they're pretty rare. These are oversized...35"...and were too cheap to not buy. That and I had an itchy buying finger.

Those are sweet pennants, Rob. Can't go wrong with the US Army!

They look old ... like, 1910s or 20s-old, based upon those thin spines. I've seen some from that era that featured comparable graphics and letter fonts; and a label for The Reproduction Co.

Gorgeous pennant pair, Rob! Love the artwork on both. And the condition is just crazy for pennants that are over 100 years old. Way to make lemonade out of lemons during this horrific drought!

Well the good news is that the drought has increased demand for what we all have. Been noticing an uptick in prices realized for not terribly uncommon 1950s team pennants. Even if we aren’t sellers, at some point we will want to move them along ... I’m not too far from starting the process with what I have in storage tubs. I think it seems this way because our collections have grown quite a bit. Even the live auctions aren’t very interesting.

Another solution: let’s trade! We should have Pennant Collector Winter Meetings!

Here’s a recent find of mine with what seems to be a tough variation (tassels and font).

These are very very cool, detail is amazing ...

This drives me nuts by the way .... definite repro but always sold as if it was original .... currently has a pretty high bid. I only know of three Pilots pennants

1. The mucho cool white cloth ASCO
2. The red Trench (slight variations, with and without tassels, font of Seattle)
3. A red AdFlag, somewhat unsightly

There’s also a red repro resembling #2 that has been making some rounds.

Hey Greg- just curious, but what points to repo/made at a later date on that one? The MLB logo? The material? Something else? Do you think it was sold as some kind of commemorative item?

Hey Marc ... the MLB logo for one, it resembles late 70s/early 80s used for other teams ... and it is thin paper felt.

Definite repro upon first glance. Even if it had the softest wool felt, the MLB logo would give it away.

So, what do you guys think about this white one? No logo. Autographs could have been collected after 1969, of course.

And, is this red one the Adflag? I kind of like it.

Oh my god .... THE DOOLEY WOMACK! That’s awesome. Interesting no trademark. But it still looks like 70s/80s material to me. Easily overcome by the autographs. And yes that’s the presumed-to-be Ad Flag pennant. It’s a tough one for sure. I’m not a fan because they don’t use the Pilots official logo/font which was way cool. Egner guide incorrectly lists the white with MLB logo as authentic.

I kind of like it, too!

Well, the original bleacher made his first foray into dyeing. FB Rob gave me a few pointers...

In a nutshell:

1) remove spine. I used a single edge razor blade. It took maybe five minutes.
2) lay pennant face down on some old towels. I put the towels on a scrap of plywood.
3) mix dye. Rit tells you how to make 3 gallons. I figured 2 tbsp. for a gallon of water.
4) spray the back side liberally. When soaked in, spray again...and again...and again...and again. I'll bet I sprayed it 20 times. I used two full spray bottles of the dye mixture. :eek: If you check the front, it will be "speckled" at first and eventually take on a more uniform color.
5) re-attach spine. I had a friend do it. A professional seamstress may have sewed a straighter line.

I may have gotten a little carried away...the dye bled a little onto the white paint because the paint was cracked. Other than that, no issues. Had the paint not been cracked, it probably would have been a total success. As it is, I give my effort a "B." I would, and may, do it again on a faded green Polo Grounds pennant.

Great work!!!! You’re a tough grader. Looks beautiful to me. Does the paint rub off at all? Like if you ran a napkin over it ... ?

Not sure what you’re asking....:confused:

Great job Rob. Looks fantastic.

Not sure I’ve seen tassels on a stiff arm pennant before. Also, the little patch of turf is missing below the feet. And as you mention, different font. Copy cat by a different company?

Interestingly, one with tassels just went in a group in a Lelands auction, though it otherwise matches the standard design. But yeah I guess so. It’s well made, double stitched on the back, soft thick felt, definitely old.

I mean, if you gently rub a white paper towel on it, will some blue transfer?

I didn’t try and it’s now tucked away in a rigid holder. You might get some blue from the felt (not really sure) and I didn’t mess with whatever “bleed” I had on the graphics. That’s actually surprising, because I have a bad habit of thinking “I probably should leave well enough alone” but then not leaving well enough alone. Case in point: the 1962 scroll Champs I ruined. :(

Would you say it has GREAT EYE APPEAL? :p

Am I the only one that believes the current card hype is about to spill over to pennants? Also glad to have won this! Hunt had a superb selection of pennants this go around

I don't think so. I hope not!

Beautiful pennant, Jordan!

Stunning rare pennant, and congrats on that pickup.

I think some of the card fervor will spill over to memorabilia. It already has, actually. It's pretty inevitable that when collectors are priced out on cards, they turn to other cool things pictured in those REA, Lelands, Hunt and LOTG catalogs which are more affordable.

Some will get hooked on memorabilia and some won't ever make the foray. But I have spoken with hundreds of memorabilia/pennant collectors who started out collecting only cards.

Nice pick up. I placed an early bid and meant to come back on Saturday and forgot. I don’t have that pennant in my Gopher collection and that one is as good as it gets. That’s about where I figured it would end. Luckily we didn’t bid each other up. Great pennant.

Thought I would share with you all my first two pennants. As a six-year-old I attended Game 2 of the 1976 championship series between the Phillies and the Reds. My first game. Not a good day for the home team. But my father bought me these, and they were moved around my bedroom walls dozens of times. At some point in my late teens I colored in the Reds spine and the Mets came off. I even made a mini set when I was around 11-12, drew the logos and glued them on felt my mom bought. .... And I had about 15-20 stored away until around 1996-7. Mitchell and Ness had their original store downtown in Philly, and they had a 50% Super Bowl sale, which included their repro pennants. I bought eight of them to decorate the just finished basement. But in the store they actually had some vintage pennants in the wall, nothing we’d go nuts over but still they looked so much better. .... Then one day I was at a flea market and bought a pile of 1950s pennants dirt cheap and then got into eBay. ... I think I may have shared the latter part with you already ...

Anyway I’m always amazed that we find old pennants in such nice condition. There would be no way that those soft felt pennants would have survived my childhood. They’d all look much more like that Chiefs Grilled Cheese pennant above (and the Philade) ...

Great stories, Greg...

I too am amazed that we find so many old pennants in great condition. It's nothing short of a miracle. The pennants that hung on my walls as a kid are beaten to hell, and not even displayable. Fading, tears, holes, frayed tips, and you name it. I've kept them all for sentimental reasons, of course.

But its amazing how many have stood the test of time... even the small percentage that were safely stored away were prone to moth holes, rodent bites, silverfish, dust mites, etc. I won't question how so many have survived... just glad that they have!

I'm not sure I ever had pennants on my walls, as a kid. I do remember having this life size poster on the back of my bedroom door. :p

I’m trying to think of a clean joke here that involves a pair of tassels .....

Opening scene from an NFL highlight clip, Week 7, 1962.

Raquel Welch turned 80 last September. In addition to some good preservation, there may be some restoration involved. Despite any recent alterations, I think she might still warrant a grade of "10".

Horrible movie; epic poster!

Well let’s see, we don’t want a pennant to be trimmed but ... okay I’ll stop right there

Random observation - I didn’t notice this originally, but my Cardinals pennant is a variation from the one in Egner’s book. The script under the two cardinals is different and the names also seem to vary - although I can’t read those in the bottom photo. I wonder if the Phillies and Pirates and other teams with similar designs have variations? [emoji2375]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a549354ef2.jpg

Very interesting. Gonna guess that these are different years? Maybe one is 1949 and the other 1950. I’ll check the names. Yours is very nice and clean. I have the version in the book.

I’m intrigued about these roster pennants, they seem to be from the same maker as all the “sliding runner” team pennants. They might be the most common that we haven’t figured out as far as the company who produced them.

Hi Erik!

Without looking at the rosters for each pennant (I've got a long to-do list today), I would guess they represent different years. The Manufacturer probably kept the same Cardinals motif, and just tweaked it with slight design change and updated names for the new season.

Just an educated guess!

Greg, you beat me too it by one minute while I was still typing... I guess great minds think alike, haha.

LOL yep! Here's mine ... now who the heck made these beauties?

So Erik’s is 1949, as Bill Reeder (33) is listed, only appeared in ‘49. Mine is 1950, due to Johnny Lindell 5 who only played for STL in ‘50, and that was in mid season.

We know the Phillies have a 1949 and 1950 version, and the 1949 has fancier cursive like Erik’s.

I've got to believe it's the exact same company that made these more common ones...

The good scan is from 1949 (only year that Baker and Glaviano were both on the team)

The bad scan is from 1950 (only year Lindell was on the team).

That explains the variation.

Edited to say "damn you guys were all pretty quick"

Doug

My known list of pennants like Erik’s

Phillies 1949 1950 including NL Champs
Athletics 1945 1948
Boston Braves 1950?
Pirates 1949
Cardinals 1949 1950
Red Sox 1946
Senators 1945
Orioles IL 1944

Thanks for the quick detective work, guys!

I don’t know if any other roster pennants aside from those Greg listed. That would be a great ‘set’ to complete!

I cannot think of any other roster versions either.

But here are two Cincinnati Reds pennants presumably from the same "mystery manufacturer". In the pennant pair, it's the top one (which for some reason is far more scarce than the pennants pictured earlier).

More from the mystery maker....

Athletics, Giants, Cubs and possibly the White Sox as well...

I bet they made this oddball as well...

These pennants are also a bit smaller than Trench but not 3/4. These are the ones which sometimes have have a “split spine” sewn continuously, as if they ended a roll mid pennant and just started a new one.

Good ones Mark ... White Sox yes, only a bit unsure about the awesome Mr. Red pennant. The appearance of stitching on the back would be the key.

No one owns this bad boy, do they? I'm not sure it even exists, except in this 27kb picture.

This Cubs also.

Anyone think this one may be from the same manufacturer? I know I've seen it before with a split spine; and it's from the same era as the others....

Following-up on earlier posts from Greg and Mark about much loved and surviving pennants, I finally managed to get a real SF Seals pennant. Been looking for a good number of years, so jumped on this one even though it clearly has some condition issues.

It was certainly much loved by someone and I kind of like it for that (I'm not going to try any cleaning or repairs). Someone wrote player names on the white paint in several places. (Not sure why my uploaded pics always look a bit fuzzy, they don't on my phone/computer).

I love it Marc! I’m glad the condition issues allowed you to get it at a good price. Any superstar names on there?

Yes no question. Also fitting in here are these pennants, 1948-50 with a ribbon graphic ... Mark has a beautiful rare Dodgers example.

Marc, glad you got this ... beautiful rare pennant! Clearly an early Trench.

WHOA ... now this is interesting. Never saw this before.

If you find one, get it for me. Thanks in advance. ;)

Hey, pennant guys
 

That’s a great pennant, Marc. Congrats and glad you got it! The extra ‘love’ makes it more interesting imho.

This is a really basic question, but assuming all these pennants are from the same manufacturer, we don’t know who actually made them?? Do we think it’s a company yet to be identified, or is it these pennants cannot yet be attributed to a known entity? This is probably addressed in previous conversations.

I believe it’s one company, not one of ones we know (i.e. not Trench, Ad Flag, Keezer, or WGN) and we have yet to identify it. They are all very similar in material, stitching, size, style, etc. and they seem to have made as many as Trench did.

Why oddball, Mark? This was one of two Washington pennants I had on my wall as a youngster in the early 1950s, so always had great affection for it. I should make this a separate post, but is there any significance to read into pennants with a yellow spine that also came in variations with a white spine? Earlier as opposed to later, perhaps? I have found the yellow spines to be noticeably rarer than the white ones, at least when t comes to Washington pennants.

I guess oddball wasn't the right descriptive word. I just meant that the artwork was odd, in comparison to other pennants of the era (most of which featured a friendly or benign mascot like Mr. Red, Uncle Sam or the scruffy Brooklyn Bum). This one depicts an intense in-game scene with sharp angles and more complex, unique artistry. It's no doubt authentic and of the era... just a bit different in appearance than your typical 1940s-50s pennant.

As for the spine color... I think it just came down to what the company had in stock at the time. Safe to say that white and yellow were the predominant colors of the day. But I would surmise that the differing spine colors were just based on the company's existing inventory at the time (and would not read any more into it than that).